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View Full Version : Thinking of buying an AR *FINISHED*


paintballdad
06-19-2010, 10:26 AM
Howdy folks, been lurking on and off for a couple of years and finally decided to register because i need a little advice on buying an AR.

Initially was thinking of picking up a Sig 556 but after a bit of thinking decided on the AR platform. I'm budgeting about $1200 and think i want a piston driven AR and the Stag Arms Model 8 seems to fit the bill. Without turning this into a DI vs piston debate, i would like to know the pros and cons of a piston driven AR.

I used to own an Olympic Arms or Bushmaster CAR-15 (don't remember which) about 17 years ago and really don't recall how that particular rifle shot. So, i'm pretty much an AR newbie. I do have quite a bit of experience with numerous handguns and currently own 2 rifles in 22 LR, a Savage MKII BV and a Sig 522.

Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Josh3239
06-19-2010, 10:34 AM
Pro: more tolerances for different kinds of ammo, barrel length, and suppressors.
Cons: Stag can't even make a DI right, "pistons" tend to limit your handguard choices, more components/moving parts, "pistons" tend to be much expensive, no standards - they are all different, some designs have been changed many times over.

RobGR
06-19-2010, 10:50 AM
daaahhh, ignore what I wrote

RobGR
06-19-2010, 11:03 AM
I was trying to find another thread I read recently, once you get past the initial topic of hk416 vs ar15 piston, it makes for an interesting read :

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=303851

There's also a great graphic I found showing animation of how the AR15/M14 systems fouls, which some say is an issue and many claim it isn't, as opposed to an AKs piston.... I think it was an AK.

And you're looking to spend $1200 on just the upper right?

RobGR
06-19-2010, 11:14 AM
Found it :

http://www.armytimes.com/projects/flash/2007_02_20_carbine/

Click on the little black box on the bottom right of the animation to "compare to the m14"

Sorry, I pushing to compare piston systems and platforms now, but, as everyone would agree, it's an ongoing and important discussion.

Josh3239
06-19-2010, 11:35 AM
Pat Roger's BCM has over 30,000 rounds through it with no cleanings, I think it is safe to say fouling is a minor issue. Has any "piston" rifle out there been pushed that hard?

Lead-Thrower
06-19-2010, 12:21 PM
Cons: Stag can't even make a DI right

What makes you say this?

paintballdad
06-19-2010, 12:39 PM
And you're looking to spend $1200 on just the upper right?

Actually, the Stag Arms Model 8 is around $1200 for a complete rifle.

Josh3239
06-19-2010, 12:40 PM
Their bolts and carriers are a lottery and their barrels leave a lot to be desired. There is a right way to make this stuff, it isn't all made equally.

jasonnorcal
06-19-2010, 1:41 PM
Don't get a Stag! I wouldn't waste $$$ on a piston upper, they're mainly for SBR's, machine guns and\or suppressors. DI guns don't need to be cleaned all the time, just oiled.

paintballdad
06-19-2010, 2:37 PM
Any input regarding S&W MP15's? Any better than the Stag Arms ARs? They have both DI and piston ARs too.

liberty08
06-19-2010, 3:10 PM
Any input regarding S&W MP15's? Any better than the Stag Arms ARs? They have both DI and piston ARs too.

I own an M&P 15T and love it. It's my first AR and would never part with it. I linked an article for you to read about them so hope that is helpful.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/swmp15_121906/

osis32
06-19-2010, 4:13 PM
I saw someone in the commercial marketplace here offering adams arms uppers for around 600. I think youd be better off getting that and building up your own lower. for the same price youd probably get something superior.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=313234

also you should talk to pete at ar15sales.com. he has pretty good lead on stag kits. if you buy your own lower and get one of his all inclusive kits with that stag 8h upper thats $919 plus a stripped lower receiver which you can get for around $120 otd if you shop around. heres his site:

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html

hope this was helpful if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

osis32
06-19-2010, 4:17 PM
also if I remember correctly certain places like riflegear offer prebuilt lower receivers if you dont have the time or patience or tools to put your own lower together. I still think going that way would be cheaper than buying a pre built stag 8h.

shark92651
06-19-2010, 5:13 PM
Actually, the Stag Arms Model 8 is around $1200 for a complete rifle.

We have the Stag Model 8 in stock for $1145. We are in Costa Mesa if you want to come check out a wide assortment of ARs.

daveyshooter
06-19-2010, 5:32 PM
I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet, but the piston rifles run cooler and do not need as much cleaning as the DGI Direct Gas..... do.
Something to think or consider, gas piston system are NOT MilSpec. They came up long after that.
That means, each to their own in terms of design, materials and functions.
MilSpec is the one reason why the AR has grown as it has.
Without the MilSpec froundtion, the designs would have been all over the map.
Every so often on the shooting shows in the Outdoor Channel, they get into that at the Stag factory or someone elses.
Every Wednesday on that channel for most of the day are shooting related show. Sometimes about the AR planform 100%.
Something well worth checking out, if you can get that channel.

Stay Safe.

Dave

RobGR
06-19-2010, 10:43 PM
I believe S&W ARs are produced by Stag, though that may have changed. S&W also has amazing customer service.
'
'
'

RobGR
06-19-2010, 11:20 PM
This dude has one for sale if you are in his area -

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=311787

No tax, gotta love that. Just pay the $35 DROS.

Ron-Solo
06-19-2010, 11:58 PM
I love my Stag ARs. I have several thousand rounds thru one of them without a single failure. The gun shoots well and I have no complaints. I have 3 in various configurations, my son has one, and about 6 of my friends have them. None has any complaints of any type.

I've shot Colts for over 30 years for work purposes. I've had our Department Armorer, who is Colt certified, inspect each of my guns and he says they are as good as any of the Colts he has worked on.

and +1 for Riflegear.........Great customer service.

RobGR
06-20-2010, 12:12 AM
Paintballdad, was watching nutnfancy's review on the Ruger 556 and saw this older vid by him, hopefully this helps, but I'm sure it'll open additional questions and options.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo&feature=channel

I enjoy his vids, he's definitely a character. And I love the drills him & his buddies do, would love to try something like this in San Diego. East of SD, that is.

Droppin Deuces
06-20-2010, 12:28 AM
I saw someone in the commercial marketplace here offering adams arms uppers for around 600. I think youd be better off getting that and building up your own lower. for the same price youd probably get something superior.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=313234

also you should talk to pete at ar15sales.com. he has pretty good lead on stag kits. if you buy your own lower and get one of his all inclusive kits with that stag 8h upper thats $919 plus a stripped lower receiver which you can get for around $120 otd if you shop around. heres his site:

http://ar15sa.fatcow.com/store/page2.html

hope this was helpful if you have any questions feel free to PM me.

I picked one of those up along with a Kaiser lower. All told with parts kit and stock assembly, I built a piston AR for about $850-$900(before sights).

pyro3k2
06-20-2010, 7:38 AM
If this is your first AR, I would go with a DI system and wait for a piston system a few AR's down the road. Not that it's a complicated or very hard thing to learn by any means it's just finding replacement parts for them will be a pain in the ***. Eventually everything will break, fail, or stop working it will be much easier to find replacement parts for a DI system than a propritary piston system.

Droppin Deuces
06-20-2010, 7:57 AM
^^^ Why not just order replacement parts from the manufacturer?

Jarhead
06-20-2010, 8:56 AM
I have two Colts, Olympic Arms, Eagle Arms and three Stags ( 2 X 5.56MM and a 6.8 SPC ) and I see no difference in quality between any of them.

paintballdad
06-20-2010, 10:08 AM
Thanks for all the great input, they are greatly appreciated. I haven't ruled out a DI AR but for my first one, i would rather get a complete rifle than building one. And DI's seem to cost less than piston ARs. Any suggestions for a good starter DI AR? And are Stag's really that bad?

paintballdad
06-20-2010, 11:11 AM
We have the Stag Model 8 in stock for $1145. We are in Costa Mesa if you want to come check out a wide assortment of ARs.

You seem to be well regarded in this forum and after checking out your website, a visit to your location is in order. Thanks.

Josh3239
06-20-2010, 11:34 AM
Very wrong.


I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet, but the piston rifles run cooler

Who cares? They don't cook rounds and you can still remove the bolt group after firing and not burn your hand. Why would you do that? I don't know, but the bottom line is who cares?


and do not need as much cleaning as the DGI Direct Gas..... do.

Not true at all. Pat Roger's BCM carbine has fired over 30,000 rounds with no cleanings no problem. Has any "piston" rifle anywhere done that? Pat's LWRC made it to 10,000 rounds uncleaned until the buffer spring crapped out. I haven't bothered cleaning mine in over a year and it is still shoots when I take it out. My rifle must be special because the "baked on" carbon hasn't slowed it down.


Something to think or consider, gas piston system are NOT MilSpec. They came up long after that.

:confused: The gas piston has been around for many many years. The AR15 replaced a gas piston rifle. Gas piston ARs have been around as long as the ARs have. Mr. Eugene Stoner, father of the AR15 himself had build rifles that utilized a gas piston. George Sullivan who oversaw the construction of the AR15 was also involved in the AR-18 which was described as an "improved alternative" to the AR15... and it was a gas piston. One of the first gas piston conversion kits came up in the 70s built by Rhino.


That means, each to their own in terms of design, materials and functions.
MilSpec is the one reason why the AR has grown as it has.
Without the MilSpec froundtion, the designs would have been all over the map.

Well there is standard for AR15s, there is no standard for the "gas pistons". While the parts may not be built to the same quality, they are all producing the same things that will fit all AR rifles. I know that I can build an AR15 with a barrel from WOA, a bolt from BCM, an upper receiver from Stag, a gas block from Vltor, handguards from DD, lower receiver from Mega, a Bushmaster stock assembly, and a DPMS lower parts kit and the rifle can be build and will work. For these "gas pistons", there is no standard. Every design is different, proprietary, and can be changed and many have been changed a few times over.

Josh3239
06-20-2010, 11:37 AM
No, not bad. It'll shoot when you pull the trigger, they just aren't as well made. They can produce good stuff but the Stag stuff is weak. BCM is top notch and some of their stuff is CMT (owners of Stag) but they only take the good stuff.

Thanks for all the great input, they are greatly appreciated. I haven't ruled out a DI AR but for my first one, i would rather get a complete rifle than building one. And DI's seem to cost less than piston ARs. Any suggestions for a good starter DI AR? And are Stag's really that bad?

RobGR
06-20-2010, 11:41 AM
paintballdad, they have a complete lower for you, though it costs $25 extra for them to but it together for you. It's actually easy to do, just make sure you use tape on you pliers to avoid scratching.

Lower - http://www.riflegear.com/p-727-mega-complete-lower-kit-with-magpul-accessories.aspx

And maybe this Stag upper with a free float Samson rail - http://www.riflegear.com/p-47-stag-arms-model-2ht-complete-upper.aspx

Slap those together and you are ready. The rail allows you to "accessorize" with possible tactical features like a forward verticle grip (inexpensive decent one from ebay for $10), light, handguards, laser etc...

Those two together will cost $1025 not including tax & DROS.

Or this upper without scope/iron sights for $465 -
[url]http://www.riflegear.com/p-48-stag-arms-model-3h-complete-upper.aspx[url]

There are so many options. Have fun with it and let us know what you go with.



You seem to be well regarded in this forum and after checking out your website, a visit to your location is in order. Thanks.

RobGR
06-20-2010, 11:45 AM
And please watch that Nutnfancy video I posted above. It's not in 3D so it may bore some people, but it's a great watch and cover all the "issues".

BMWguy206
06-20-2010, 1:18 PM
Paintballdad,

Are you going to use this rifle for target shooting at 100yrs+ or are you going to take some tactical carbine courses?

My first AR was a Daniel Defense DDM4 and mainly use it for tactical carbine courses. My next rifle will be gas piston upper from ADDAX or a Daniel Defense midlength DI rifle.

I can tell you right now that after shooting 500 or so rounds in 1 day of carbine training the gun will get very dirty especially in the upper receiver and BCG. If you have the time to clean it then great. Sometimes I don't have the time to clean it. Heck even some instructors have gas piston guns and love it.

paintballdad
06-21-2010, 8:14 AM
After some research, i'm thinking of just piecing together a DI AR. The specs on the RG upper seems to have all the right stuff and basing the build on that. I would have preferred one without a fixed front sight since i'll probably going the optics route but the RG rifle kit seems hard to pass up. I need to visit their location before making a final decision.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-775-riflegear-16-moe-carbine-rifle-kit.aspx

http://www.riflegear.com/p-681-jd-machine-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx

BMWguy206
06-21-2010, 8:16 AM
After some research, i'm thinking of just piecing together a DI AR. The specs on the RG upper seems to have all the right stuff and basing the build on that. I would have preferred one without a fixed front sight since i'll probably going the optics route but the RG rifle kit seems hard to pass up. I need to visit their location before making a final decision.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-775-riflegear-16-moe-carbine-rifle-kit.aspx

http://www.riflegear.com/p-681-jd-machine-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx

If you go to RG talk to Brian. He helped me choose between 2 ARs and ended up getting the DDM4. If I did more research I would've gotten the DDM4v3 though.

BHPFan
06-21-2010, 9:16 AM
Howdy folks, been lurking on and off for a couple of years and finally decided to register because i need a little advice on buying an AR.

Initially was thinking of picking up a Sig 556 but after a bit of thinking decided on the AR platform. I'm budgeting about $1200 and think i want a piston driven AR and the Stag Arms Model 8 seems to fit the bill. Without turning this into a DI vs piston debate, i would like to know the pros and cons of a piston driven AR.

Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Another affordable Gas Piston Rifle that you can look at is CMMG.

osis32
06-21-2010, 9:50 AM
if you still wanna piece together a gas piston AR you definitely should check out the adams arms deal I posted

wsmc27
06-21-2010, 10:06 AM
If you go to RG talk to Brian. He helped me choose between 2 ARs and ended up getting the DDM4. If I did more research I would've gotten the DDM4v3 though.

What are differences? I can see on their website the v3 has a little less rail, is there anything else?

A little less weight because of less rail?

Thanks. :)

--
ontopik:

Paintballdad: The JD lower you have linked is a great choice imho, we like the San Diego CA produced product and have been really happy with our JD lower. It is our choice when our next AR assembly comes together :)

Also, fwiw...our few smaller item purchases online from Rifle Gear have been handled super quick and efficiently, and they will continue to get our business. Never met any of those guys, but they get an A+ from us.

HTH, have fun in your assembly! :)

paintballdad
06-21-2010, 10:09 AM
osis32: I'm thinking DI for my first AR, want something mil-spec and i think i might want something with a midlength gas system. And as things progress, maybe a piston AR in the near future. With so many variables, the confusion grows.
Maybe i should not think this out too much. :)

wsmc27: Thanks, that's what got me to choose the JD lower. I initially looked at the Mega and the Spike's upper but thought the JD would be a good choice for someone in SoCal :). And it's also nice that RifleGear is only 40 minutes away from me.

osis32
06-21-2010, 10:35 AM
haha yeah I know what you mean. I started out going gas piston for sure. after lots of research I decided against it. I also swore Id only build one lower and just switch out uppers because who needs multiple ars? well now I have 5 lowers and build my own uppers. they dont call it black rifle disease for nothin. sounds like to me you definitely need to check out rifle gear since youre down south. I dont have the luxury I wish I did so take advantage of it. really you cant go wrong with most of the suggestions posted here.theres a chart floating around somewhere of who makes and tests their parts to the highest standards. the company at the top of the heap is BCM.daniel defense lewis machine and tool and consequently riflegears home built stuff are all right on the same level. good luck in whatever you decide to do. were all happy to help.
osis32: I'm thinking DI for my first AR, want something mil-spec and i think i might want something with a midlength gas system. And as things progress, maybe a piston AR in the near future. With so many variables, the confusion grows.
Maybe i should not think this out too much. :)

wsmc27: Thanks, that's what got me to choose the JD lower. I initially looked at the Mega and the Spike's upper but thought the JD would be a good choice for someone in SoCal :). And it's also nice that RifleGear is only 40 minutes away from me.

socal-shooter
06-21-2010, 11:09 AM
some good stuff on this thread, i was thinking of switching mine to a piston system

Jarhead
06-21-2010, 6:59 PM
no difference between most off the shelf rifles, some just have personal preference but without much facts.

Linus
06-21-2010, 7:17 PM
After some research, i'm thinking of just piecing together a DI AR. The specs on the RG upper seems to have all the right stuff and basing the build on that. I would have preferred one without a fixed front sight since i'll probably going the optics route but the RG rifle kit seems hard to pass up. I need to visit their location before making a final decision.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-775-riflegear-16-moe-carbine-rifle-kit.aspx

http://www.riflegear.com/p-681-jd-machine-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx

Yes, Great choice! Look no further this is the ideal first/starter AR. Ignore any other posts about Piston ARs and get this.

paintballdad
06-26-2010, 8:50 AM
The following lowers seem to have similar specs and are in the same price range. Any reason to pick one over the other? Or is it just a matter of preference?
Getting closer to picking up my first AR build. Thanks for all the help and info.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-681-jd-machine-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx

http://www.riflegear.com/p-714-mega-forged-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx

http://www.riflegear.com/p-549-spikes-tactical-sl-15-stripped-lower-receiver-with-color-fill.aspx

http://www.riflegear.com/p-581-stag-arms-stag-15-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx

Sunday
06-26-2010, 8:54 AM
Buy a complete BCM upper, read their website you will be very glad you did in the long run .

paintballdad
07-12-2010, 6:24 PM
I finally ordered the pieces to put my first AR together over the weekend.

Ended up ordering this BCM upper.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-16-M4-SOCOM-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-m4-16socom.htm

And these 2 lowers from RifleGear.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-681-jd-machine-ar15-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx
http://www.riflegear.com/p-714-mega-forged-stripped-lower-receiver.aspx

Also ordered a CTR stock and stock assy, MOE handguards, MIAD grip, LPK and misc other parts.

Looking forward to putting this together.

And the long wait begins....

MoBait
07-12-2010, 6:58 PM
Looks like it's going to be a nice system! Congratulations. I cant believe I missed the SOCOM barreled upper when I ordered last week. I guess I better get another lower and start all over.

Josh3239
07-12-2010, 8:00 PM
:iagree:

That is going to be a beautiful build! I gurantee you, you will be happy with it.

anniepoks
07-12-2010, 8:50 PM
have fun with whatever choice you make. AR platform is nice, interchangeability of parts an A+. :)

wsmc27
07-13-2010, 10:00 AM
Nice!

Congrats n' have FUN! :)

Muaythaishooter
07-13-2010, 10:44 AM
I have the Stag M8 with only 400 rds through it and I love the rifle. When I stripped it down it looked like CMMG from piston to BCG. For the Stags price, It made me wonder why i spent so much on a LWRC M6A2. My M8, it slightly cleaner than your standard DI. It still gets dirty but not as much. However, to me, dirty is dirty.

On the other hand my M6A2 is a different story. Took it to the desert and lubed it and dumped a little over 1K rounds. Cleaned it afterwards. The BCG looked like it had 200rds through it.

From my experience, I prefer pistons because I hate cleaning DI. Well, at least my DI RRA. Pistons generally have less crud on the BCG. My RRA DI stays in my safe because I don't like cleaning it.

The dirt on a piston rifle is mostly on the piston not on the BCG. I suggest you get the Stag M8 if your looking for a piston. Its in your price range and if you like CMMG products Im sure you will like the Stag M8. Good luck on your choice!

Josh3239
07-13-2010, 12:09 PM
Read the OP's last post. He didn't drink the kool aid and bought a great upper.

thrillhouse700
07-13-2010, 12:19 PM
Ordering the stuff online and waiting for shipping is worse than the 10 day wait on the lower.

paintballdad
07-13-2010, 12:22 PM
I'll end up getting the upper from BCM before i can pick up the lowers. :D

BMWguy206
07-13-2010, 1:06 PM
@ Paintballdad - Just curious but why did you get the SOCOM barrel and not the hammer forged or lightweight?

paintballdad
07-13-2010, 1:33 PM
^ Just wasn't crazy about the pencil thin barrel and the hammer forged uppers were about $90 more than the standard barrel, wasn't sure if it was going to make enough of a difference to justify the added cost.

So my choices were down to the M4 carbine and the M4 SOCOM. The SOCOM was in stock first and i guess i just wanted something different and new. :cool2:

paintballdad
07-22-2010, 7:24 AM
Finally got all the pieces in Tuesday and my first AR is now complete.

BCM M4 SOCOM upper
JD Machine stripped lower
CMT/Stag Arms LPK
MOE handguards
MOE trigger guard
MIAD grips
CTR stock w/ H buffer
Troy DOA battlesight
10/20 PMag & bullet button

Total cost less shipping charges and DROS fees.......$1034.85

Can't wait to try her out. Wish me luck.

Thinking of adding a MS2 sling, ASAP rear sling mount and either an AFG or RFG. Any thoughts on the grips?
I guess i'll call this my Magpul AR.

biglou
07-22-2010, 8:01 AM
Looks really nice. You made a good choice. Reading everyone's opinion about which AR to get is like going to a PTA meeting and asking for a oatmeal cookie recipe :). Happy shooting !

Chuntsman949
07-22-2010, 8:08 AM
Finally got all the pieces in Tuesday and my first AR is now complete.

BCM M4 SOCOM upper
JD Machine stripped lower
CMT/Stag Arms LPK
MOE handguards
MOE trigger guard
MIAD grips
CTR stock w/ H buffer
Troy DOA battlesight
10/20 PMag & bullet button

Total cost less shipping charges and DROS fees.......$1034.85

Can't wait to try her out. Wish me luck.

Paintball huh?? I use to play NPPL and Xball.... maybe I know you/your son? BTW Ar is nice!!

paintballdad
07-22-2010, 8:13 AM
Paintball huh?? I use to play NPPL and Xball.... maybe I know you/your son? BTW Ar is nice!!

Although i've been playing for over 12 years (and i still do!), i never got into the tournament scene. And my son is just starting to show interest in the sport so i doubt we've ever crossed paths.
Wouldn't mind getting together with other paintball playing CalGunners though.

stormy_clothing
07-22-2010, 8:56 AM
It doesnt seem like most of these people have any idear of what the hell they are talking about.

Assuming Stag or there parent company makes the rifle for CMMG as is apparent I've had the same system now for well over in a year in many different forms, put thousands of rounds through it and simply fell in love with it.

I've had plenty of DI guns SW made also by stag has been a good one but piston guns when done properly are very advantageous and there is no reason not to give them an honest try - In your price range CMMG and buy sights or stag with sights.

Here's the thread on calguns

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=210206

pyro3k2
07-22-2010, 8:58 AM
Although i've been playing for over 12 years (and i still do!), i never got into the tournament scene. And my son is just starting to show interest in the sport so i doubt we've ever crossed paths.
Wouldn't mind getting together with other paintball playing CalGunners though.

Before I joined the military I was NPPL ref and made it into division 2 for tourniment playing, you really didn't miss much in the tourniment scene. Just a bunch of alpha male's and ego's of epic proportions. I still play but now I just play rec ball with my phantom. Would be fun to get a Calgun's paintball game going, nothing serious just for fun :)

Chuntsman949
07-22-2010, 9:29 AM
Before I joined the military I was NPPL ref and made it into division 2 for tourniment playing, you really didn't miss much in the tourniment scene. Just a bunch of alpha male's and ego's of epic proportions. I still play but now I just play rec ball with my phantom. Would be fun to get a Calgun's paintball game going, nothing serious just for fun :)


Hell yah!! I think I have a bob long timmy sittin some where... that would be a blast playing rec ball with some tactically sound cats!

paintballdad
07-22-2010, 9:31 AM
Before I joined the military I was NPPL ref and made it into division 2 for tourniment playing, you really didn't miss much in the tourniment scene. Just a bunch of alpha male's and ego's of epic proportions. I still play but now I just play rec ball with my phantom. Would be fun to get a Calgun's paintball game going, nothing serious just for fun :)

Hell yah!! I think I have a bob long timmy sittin some where... that would be a blast playing rec ball with some tactically sound cats!

I'm up for it. And i have a couple of loaners if anyone new is interested in playing.

Where are you guys located?

Dragunov
07-22-2010, 11:25 AM
Any input regarding S&W MP15's? Any better than the Stag Arms ARs? They have both DI and piston ARs too.

MP15 is a FINE rifle, accurate and reliable. $1220 OTD. I bought one and the only thing it doesn't like are "strange" reloads.