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Crom
06-18-2010, 8:17 PM
I have a question that is CCW related. I wanted to know if there is an exception to the DOJ background check / FBI fingerprinting for NON-LEO public employees when applying for CCW.

Why?

My friend works for the State of California. He is a university employee. His fingerprints are already on file. Why then if he applies for CCW, must he resubmit them. It is not like his fingerprints are ever going to change.

The law should allow for an exception.

Thoughts?

winnre
06-18-2010, 8:22 PM
My fingerprints are on file with the military. I have applied for CCWs, COE, C&R, and my security clearances. Last time I checked I have the same fingers.

Maybe it is to confirm that the applicant really is the applicant, and to avoid identity theft? I may fake your ID and name and stuff but I will have a hard time stealing your prints.

Doheny
06-18-2010, 8:22 PM
Nope, no exception. He'll need to get printed again.

Unfortunately it's common; you volunteer at your kids school, you need to get printed, scout leader, get printed again, EMT; get printed, taking a PC832 class, get printed again, CCW, get printed.



.

Cokebottle
06-18-2010, 8:26 PM
I will hard a hard time getting your prints.
Not really :43:








Now... preserving them might be a problem.... :D

Crom
06-18-2010, 8:32 PM
Fantastic responses by everyone. Thank you for the help. It does make one wonder if the DOJ, adds to the file, or just deletes the old copy. It's all electronic now so, I surmise they probably just have a growing file.

I may ask the DOJ for an answer to this. If I do, I'll share it here.

CSDGuy
06-18-2010, 8:33 PM
Each set of prints is done for a specific purpose and reason. Thus, they need to do them over and over and over and over and over and over...

You see, if you get your prints done and you get an ATI number for it... you could possibly give the same ATI number to someone with the same name as you, born on the same day... but who has a record, and suddenly they've got a clean/clear result on their name and you might too... but which one is the real you now?

Crom
06-18-2010, 8:41 PM
Each set of prints is done for a specific purpose and reason. Thus, they need to do them over and over and over and over and over and over...

You see, if you get your prints done and you get an ATI number for it... you could possibly give the same ATI number to someone with the same name as you, born on the same day... but who has a record, and suddenly they've got a clean/clear result on their name and you might too... but which one is the real you now?

Interesting. I don't yet fully understand the purpose of the ATI (automatic transaction identifier). I have seen spaces for it on a few forms though.

Consequently I have also seen the option to list a social security number on a DROS form, which it said could help with identification purposes. I suppose the intention of this would be to help the DOJ sort something out if ever there needed to be clarification on which John Smith there was a question about.

russ69
06-18-2010, 8:45 PM
The government has about a dozen sets of mine and about 30 thumb prints, don't buck the system just jump through the hoops.

Thanx, Russ

No, I have never been arrested or booked.......

CSDGuy
06-18-2010, 8:49 PM
As near as I can figure, if multiple agencies/persons needs the same info from the same set of prints, you could probably give them all the same ATI number... Government wouldn't be that efficient though.... then again... maybe it's theoretically possible to do one set of prints with one ATI number and put it on a whole bunch of LiveScan requests... if you're bringing all those forms in to be done at the same time?

HowardW56
06-18-2010, 8:52 PM
The government has about a dozen sets of mine and about 30 thumb prints, don't buck the system just jump through the hoops.

Thanx, Russ

No, I have never been arrested or booked.......

I'm in the same boat...

Clearance for various airports, prints every time...

Clearance to work in defence contractors facility, prints every time...

Working in Sheriff's facilities, prints again...

Renew airport ID badge, prints again...

Volunteer with a youth group, again.....

There is no getting around it...

-hanko
06-18-2010, 9:00 PM
My friend works for the State of California. He is a university employee. His fingerprints are already on file. Why then if he applies for CCW, must he resubmit them. It is not like his fingerprints are ever going to change.

The law should allow for an exception.

Thoughts?
Nothing you can do; in a past occupation I was cleared for Air Force One during maintenance. The state of Texas still required prints for my ccw.;)

-hanko

Cokebottle
06-18-2010, 9:25 PM
Interesting. I don't yet fully understand the purpose of the ATI (automatic transaction identifier). I have seen spaces for it on a few forms though.
Applicant Tracking Identifier

The ATI is issued when you get a Livescan done... not during a paper fingerprinting.
Consequently I have also seen the option to list a social security number on a DROS form, which it said could help with identification purposes. I suppose the intention of this would be to help the DOJ sort something out if ever there needed to be clarification on which John Smith there was a question about.
Exactly.
There are two other guys in California with my exact first, middle, and last name. One is my age (birthdate is off by a month) and the other is about 10 years younger.

If either of these guys were prohibited persons, it COULD create an issue with my DROS.
And my last name is relatively rare (at least in the US, it's common in England)... the chances of an exact match on F/M/L... I'm amazed that there are two others in the state.

Crom
06-18-2010, 10:21 PM
Applicant Tracking Identifier

The ATI is issued when you get a Livescan done... not during a paper fingerprinting.

Exactly.
There are two other guys in California with my exact first, middle, and last name. One is my age (birthdate is off by a month) and the other is about 10 years younger.

If either of these guys were prohibited persons, it COULD create an issue with my DROS.
And my last name is relatively rare (at least in the US, it's common in England)... the chances of an exact match on F/M/L... I'm amazed that there are two others in the state.


Thank you for your comments, they are very helpful to my understanding and for correcting the ATI acronym.

winnre
06-18-2010, 11:27 PM
I saw we get our prints done for free and the criminals have to pay for theirs!

Sunday
06-19-2010, 10:58 AM
That is what it takes to realize your constitutional rights.

Doheny
06-19-2010, 11:45 AM
That is what it takes to realize your constitutional rights.

True, but some people should not have guns/lose their constitutional rights to own them and fingerprints is how that's determined.

With that said, one would think there could be an easier way so that good people don't need to get printed multiple times.

.

E Pluribus Unum
06-19-2010, 11:55 AM
I have a question that is CCW related. I wanted to know if there is an exception to the DOJ background check / FBI fingerprinting for NON-LEO public employees when applying for CCW.

Why?

My friend works for the State of California. He is a university employee. His fingerprints are already on file. Why then if he applies for CCW, must he resubmit them. It is not like his fingerprints are ever going to change.

The law should allow for an exception.

Thoughts?


No exceptions... period... Just because he works for the state, he should not have to go through all the hoops everyone else does??

I don't think there should be an exception for anyone, including police officers.