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View Full Version : Is the magazine locks kosher or a gray area


colin1
04-02-2006, 5:14 AM
I picked up some doublestar and ametec recievers out of Martinez and was going to just hold on to them until they were "added" to the list. But now I here all this talk about pinning a 10rnd mag and being legal. I didn't want to have to alter my recivers by puting epoxy or welding the mags. But the set screw in the mag release button that hawk1 is talking about sounds like a good option, is anybody running these yet, and is it legal or just a gray area waiting for someone to test it. There is guys shooting offlist ARs at my local range with "hardware store" pinned mags but to me loosing my right to own firearms and being locked up is not worth it. I was thinking about writing a letter to the DOJ to see if they would tell me if its cool or not, but after reading all the stuff people have said here it seems the DOJ is worthless. To bad we don't live in America anymore, but anyways all you guys seem to be on top of things so I just wanted to see what you thought. Thanks.

TT2
04-02-2006, 6:28 AM
I also picked up a couple in Martinez, The FFl also had a few fixed Mag kits, and ten round mags, I bought a couple and was told by him that they are trying to get them approved by the DOJ. But at this point they have not replied to the many attempts to get a letter stating the legality of these kits. He told me that I should epoxy the kits. I am confident that they are legal, you cannot remove them by hand. LEO will need a tool to remove my magazine. Break the action and load it with stripper clips.:)

sac7000
04-02-2006, 7:57 AM
Your options:

1. Store your stripped receiver in your gun safe and sit back and wait.

2. Build a fully compliant post ban SB-23 and shoot the crap out of it.

3. Move to Nevada or any of the ' free ' states.

Remember, there is safety in numbers and the more legally built, fully compliant post SB-23 self-loading rifles are in use the better. If your magazine can only be removed by the use of a " tool " you are in compliance. If you still feel a locked mag catch is still not enough, drill a small hole in the front of the magwell and magazine, tap it and install a small, recessed machine screw. (Simular to Bushmaster's DOJ approved Carbon 15. The used a small aluminum pop rivet. If you still want to use epoxy, use something that can be removed fairly easy should your receiver become listed and declared a AW therefore allowing detachable magazines.

blkA4alb
04-02-2006, 12:30 PM
there have been no mag lock kits "approved" by the DOJ, the DOJ has stated that they are illegal and will be arresting but no one has been locked up (except for the YSA deal.) these kits meet the DOJs definition of a fixed magazine requiring tools and time to remove it. but there is no mag lock kit approved, and probably never will be.

blkA4alb
04-02-2006, 12:41 PM
Actually it's the law that defines this, not the DOJ.

AFAIK no one's been prosecuted for modifying the mag catch on an Imbel to require an allen wrench under the legal definition.
but isnt it the DOJ that writes the wording for the law? they re-wrote the whole pistol grip definition countless times.

ohsmily
04-02-2006, 12:45 PM
but isnt it the DOJ that writes the wording for the law? they re-wrote the whole pistol grip definition countless times.

uh, legislator's WRITE the "wording" of the law (legislation), that is why they are called legislators. The DOJ sometimes issues opinions and THEIR interpretation of the written law. Their opinions are not the law. A judge and/or jury (or judges in the court of last resort) have the final word on what the true interpretation of the law is.

blkA4alb
04-02-2006, 1:15 PM
True, but it still has to be authorized by a higher authority: otherwise, we'd be living with Category 4 assault weapons right now just because the DOJ says so.
i know that, i know that the DOJ cant just make cat 4, they dont have the authority to. im not sure what im trying to say here...but i agree with you guys. i THINK we're on the same page.

sac7000
04-02-2006, 2:15 PM
uh, legislator's WRITE the "wording" of the law (legislation), that is why they are called legislators. The DOJ sometimes issues opinions and THEIR interpretation of the written law. Their opinions are not the law. A judge and/or jury (or judges in the court of last resort) have the final word on what the true interpretation of the law is.

Wanted: Volunteer for test case needed, apply within.

colin1
04-02-2006, 3:30 PM
So basically no one knows if the mag locks are legal or not and anyone using them in public is taking a gamble? Is that what I'm getting here or not? I guess we just have to wait for someone to get busted and try to prove that it meets the description of the law. Well its good to know that their are plenty of gun owners still left here willing to fight for their rights. I had almost givin up on this damn state and fled to "America" Thanks guys.

blacklisted
04-02-2006, 3:43 PM
So, let me get this straight. The magazine lock has to be certified by a Rabbi now?

Phantom_Piney
04-02-2006, 3:54 PM
Hell No......!!! Screw that commie mark I tell you all!!! I don't give a damn and will not take it anymore. :eek: The DOG I mean DOJ knows what it can do with all these listed and unlisted lowers, they can shove it up there DOJ As.! We have Rights..........Even if this liberal, Frankenstein state does not respect them. :p

Phantom_Piney
04-02-2006, 3:57 PM
They first came for your lowers, now your Magazine locks. What next???:mad:

grammaton76
04-02-2006, 4:17 PM
That'll be easy, just show up at Iron Sights every Monday until you run into the Range Rabbi. :)

It's funny, he has a synagogue group that he brings in on Monday nights... I think he does every other or every third Monday night.

kick Z tail out
04-02-2006, 4:20 PM
So, let me get this straight. The magazine lock has to be certified by a Rabbi now?
HAHAHAAHAHAHA :D

sac7000
04-02-2006, 5:00 PM
They first came for your lowers, now your Magazine locks. What next???:mad:

A free train ride to a work camp?

colin1
04-02-2006, 5:11 PM
I cant believe all this crap, we do everything within the law and "they" bend and break the law for their benefit. When is our constitutional rights going to stop being trampled by liberal lawyers holding office in this "great state." We should all build our lowers within the law and shoot them. I dont think they would try and arrest us all.

JALLEN
04-02-2006, 5:43 PM
Who is it that is enforcing these "laws"? The cops you see at the range don't seem to have much interest in it, or even knowledge. There was a fellow the other week who had a recently built M4gery with a stack of 10 round mags he was freely and openly using. Today at another range was a father & son with a Mini14 and a bunch of the biggest 10 round mags I've ever seen. Some of them held 20 rounds or even more!

Are the gun police doing sweeps, or just how does it happen?

colin1
04-02-2006, 6:13 PM
I have yet to see any enforcement of these laws by anyone. The range I go to is ran by the sheriff and they dont know what the law says and dont really care. If you show up with a AW they will ask you for paperwork, but people are shooting offlist ARs with pinned mags and no paperwork with no problem, they just want to "see" that the mag is fixed. BUT I'm not saying it legal or you wont get in trouble, I just know that there hasn't been a problem yet. As for the father and son with the mini 14, the mini dosnt have a pistol grip therefore it can have a detachable mag. In addition it the mag is an old and was bought before the ban it is ok to be high cap. (more than 10) I take my mini 14 to my range and use 30 round mags all the time, but no matter how well you dress up a mini 14 its no AR15.

j2ws2000
04-02-2006, 8:46 PM
I say write 'em and find out.

TMC
04-02-2006, 9:25 PM
How about a mag catch similar to stock but recessed down in the hole too far for your finger to reach?. Then you need a tool "a round is a tool" to press it. By the letter of the law its legal.

sac7000
04-02-2006, 9:37 PM
I cant believe all this crap, we do everything within the law and "they" bend and break the law for their benefit. When is our constitutional rights going to stop being trampled by liberal lawyers holding office in this "great state." We should all build our lowers within the law and shoot them. I dont think they would try and arrest us all.

Sure they would, haven't you ever heard of " detention camps? " Imagine 30,000 brand spanking new felons all behind barbed wire living in wooden buildings. Why it would mean 3 hots and a cot, free TV, free dental and medical care and a spiffy orange uniform. Of course at a cost to the taxpayers of anywhere between $30,000 to $45,000 a year per prisoner. Hmmm...

colin1
04-02-2006, 10:19 PM
It would never come to that, but 1 or 2 people trying it would lead to arrests, but hundereds of people trying it would atleast force the DOJ to make a decision on what they are going to try to do about the "offlists". Although I think I'm just going to leave mine stripped and put them in the back of the gun safe.

GW
04-02-2006, 10:44 PM
Sure they would, haven't you ever heard of " detention camps? " Imagine 30,000 brand spanking new felons all behind barbed wire living in wooden buildings. Why it would mean 3 hots and a cot, free TV, free dental and medical care and a spiffy orange uniform. Of course at a cost to the taxpayers of anywhere between $30,000 to $45,000 a year per prisoner. Hmmm...
Well lets not forget what that would do to the tax base because i'm willing to be that the vast majority of us are middle-class/upper middle class or better
This speculation is a waste of time IMHO
I also think its silly not to build your AR receivers up and shoot them
Hiding them in your safe won't make them any less "illegal" if the DOJ decides they want to round us all up. They already know who has these or at least the bulk of who has 'em
And if they do arrest us all, you'll have missed out on the fun of shooting your AR. So, once again--Why not build it up and shoot it?
FAL's built this way (fixed 10 rd mag) have been in the state for years
Heard of any busts?
I bought mine to shoot and shoot them I do. So should you.
An additional bonus is its darn fun to assemble these lower receivers
Exercise your Second Amendment rights and shoot these things!!

colin1
04-02-2006, 11:23 PM
I bought mine to shoot as well, but I dont want to go to jail for it. But if we get enough people together to build them within the law I dont think we'll have a problem. There is no way the DOJ would persue charges against hundereds or more people when its not even a clear cut case that any of us would be breaking the law in the first place. I think that by building them to conform with the "written law" would just force the DOJ to make a decision on what they are going to do. Because right now I dont think they really know what they are going to do about it.

Demented_Mind
04-03-2006, 6:58 AM
I bought mine to shoot as well, but I dont want to go to jail for it. But if we get enough people together to build them within the law I dont think we'll have a problem. There is no way the DOJ would persue charges against hundereds or more people when its not even a clear cut case that any of us would be breaking the law in the first place. I think that by building them to conform with the "written law" would just force the DOJ to make a decision on what they are going to do. Because right now I dont think they really know what they are going to do about it.

So build it and shoot it then! I'm willing to bet that there are hundreds legally built right now and people are shooting them, I know I am shooting mine, been to three different ranges in the bay area and not even a funny look from a single person. Every group starts with one, the only question is are you going to be part of that hundred?

antarius
04-03-2006, 7:08 AM
Follow the penal code to the letter, follow it by definition of what PC 12276.1 states, as well as what the definition of "detachable" is, and you'll be fine.

The DOJ will always try to pressure and scare people out of purchasing legal self-loading .223 rifles in California, because their intent (stated by them) is to remove them from the state all together.

Pressure and scare tactics are not law, the law is the law; Follow the law and you'll be fine.

I'm not saying you won't hit a few road-bumps, or that you won't or can't be pursued for perceived crimes by some overzealous attorney or law enforcement officer; But in the end, if you follow the letter of the law, you will be fine.

In short, a fixed magazine, as well as an "assault rifle" is defined by the state already -- it's been posted a hundred times in this thread alone, and thousands of times elsewhere. Learn it, understand it, know it, and follow it... then go out and have fun!