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Foriegn power
06-18-2010, 10:17 AM
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j1133s
06-18-2010, 10:32 AM
Hey all I have this thought floating around and wanted to ask the experts in 1911's; is the Springfield 1911 model GI and Mil Spec equivalent to a $159.99 high point in the 1911 field? Meaning, am I buying a piece of metal that I cannot trust my life to because it will jam when I may need it most? Or since it's such a base model I must absolutely modify it or do some 'update' changes to make it function and form? Or is the model GI and Mil Spec a mighty contender and appeals for the first time 1911 buyer? The reason is, my birthday is coming around and for the past years, I've been buying a pistol around my birthday time as a present to myself. If i buy a 1911 most likely Mil Spec will I have a bad range time during my birthday with my Mil Spec? And be hitting my head for not spending another $200-300 for a higher end 1911? Fill me in on what you think.

Even the GI model is not even close to a hi-point.. it is way better than a hi-point. As with any guns, you have to break it in and possibly tune it a bit for 100% functionality; I have no doubt that this can be done to the GI model. OTOH, I think a hi-point may need a replacemnt under warranty once it's broken in... so you'll never have a reliable one of those :)

I've shot a GI model. Straight out of the box, it did not jam. Although its sights were slightly to the left. I did tell the owner that I think the sights were points more left.. (we were shooting FMJ RN bullets... the GI may have some issues w/ HP, but shouldn't be a big deal to fix.)

nn3453
06-18-2010, 10:32 AM
The lower end Springfield models are designed to feed what the original design was designed to feed. 230gr ball (FMJ) ammo. They will need some break in and may need some amount of feed ramp work to be utterly reliable, but if you feed factory 230gr FMJ ammo, you should not have problems.

TMC
06-18-2010, 10:37 AM
I have many 1911's including a Springfield GI. The only difference between the GI/Mil-Spec and the higher end models in the cosmetics and controls. The slide/frame fit and barrel fit are all the same and its these relationships that determine how a 1911 functions. The safeties, sights, trigger and grips have nothing to do with how it feeds, functions and how accurate it can be. Sure a good trigger and sights will help you the shooter but where the gun shot from a fixture its the slide/frame and barrel fit that determine how well it works.

The first day out with my GI it shot all the various ammo I had, reloads, factory, friends reloads and with SA mags, Chip McCormick mags, mystery mags, they all worked. If you get a Mil-Spec or GI you'll have a solid platform that can be customized later if you wish to just about any level you're wallet take

sevensix2x51
06-18-2010, 10:38 AM
my opinion is not the end-all be-all by any stretch, but i figure ill post anyways. i owned a springfield GI 1911 for a couple years, and it was a pretty good pistol. it functioned flawlessly with ball ammo, and it was fun to shoot. it is fairly accurate, not as accurate as my kimber is now, but t did ok, considering how tiny the sights were on it. a couple problems i had were one- the pistol did not feed semi-wadcutters. which is to be expected from a base model 1911. the feed ramp isnt built for it. the only other problem i had is that the gi grip safety is small, and the hammer would pinch the web of my hand. that is the reason higher end 1911s have the nice beavertail safety. i think for the price difference, a kimber is well worth the extra money. if you can save a bit for a kimber or the like, you will have a handgun for life. i found mine used for ~$600.
ive never shot a hipoint, so i have no frame of reference to that. but i did like the GI 1911 more than my glock 21, it just made me smile a bit more. fwiw.

Black Majik
06-18-2010, 10:40 AM
The base model Springfield GI and Milspec models are just as capable as the more expensive 1911s, they just don't have the bells and whistles the more expensive models do. In no way should the plain jane Springfields be compared against a hi-point.

If I was going to spend the absolute minimum on a 1911, it would be the Springfield GI.

kellito
06-18-2010, 11:01 AM
No 1911 that I know of, of 1911 types a llama minimax .45 would be the closest I think. No first hand experience though.

kmca
06-18-2010, 11:20 AM
I've got the Springfield GI and it fed semi-wadcutters right out of the box. Since then, I've mad a few mods. If I were to do it again, I'd be looking at a RIA Tactical.

lmudave
06-18-2010, 11:20 AM
I had a Springfield GI 1911 and it was an excellent gun, never once had any problems with it. It was accurate, solidly built, felt great in the hand. Really got me into 1911's and I ended up selling it and upgrading a bit to a Kimber. The Kimber is a bit tigher and slightly more accurate, but for a bare bones 1911 the GI is really excellent. The Milspec is even a bit nicer.

TMC
06-18-2010, 11:24 AM
which is to be expected from a base model 1911. the feed ramp isnt built for it.

I'm sure Springfield cuts the feed ramp the same on all of its pistols. I know some ramps are more polished than others but they are all cut the same way.

vta
06-18-2010, 11:52 AM
if you are thinking the GI is the highpoint of 1911s, don't buy it. i dont want to be the blame if you for whatever reason don't like it. I on the other hand had no issues with my SA 1911 GIs.

I wouldn't trust my life on any gun fresh out of the box except maybe a pump shotgun. even my glocks goes through at least a 500-round break-in before they are bed-side ready.

Foriegn power
06-18-2010, 12:29 PM
Great responses, glad I didn't get a fighting match. I am highly considering a Mil Spec.

Kodemonkey
06-18-2010, 12:41 PM
drider: If you find one, good luck. I had a Milspec on order for about a month before I gave up and ordered something else (HK USP 9mm). You might have to wait a while for it. I was afraid that it was going to fall off the roster in Feb 2011 before I had a chance to get my hands on one. Springfield will probably renew, but you never know.

I did a lot of research and they had one of the best customer service and warranties out there. That is why I ordered a milspec.

BluNorthern
06-18-2010, 1:17 PM
I've never for a minute regretted buying my Mil Spec, I doubt you would either. I've added some higher quality internals through the years, but that's just an illness I have, the gun shot fine out of the box. You might consider some Wilson mags, otherwise I think you'll be fine for your first 1911.

Tanner68
06-18-2010, 1:31 PM
And be hitting my head for not spending another $200-300 for a higher end 1911? Fill me in on what you think.

If you want a gun that is more reminiscent of something once carried by our soldiers, you will be well served by the GI or MilSpec. And get the MilSpec because of the better sights. If you don't care as much for the WWII heritage it evokes, then spending the extra money for a loaded model would be worth it.

RedFord150
06-18-2010, 1:52 PM
I have heard nothing but good about the SA models you are looking at. My Brother in law has had the Mil-Spec for years and loves it. I think it is mostly stock. My Son's buddy is in the Border Patrol and has spent a small fortune customizing his GI model. He loves it.
I think every 1911 owner knows that SA and Hi-Point should never be mentioned in the same breath. No comparison, Apples to Pine cones, etc.

POLICESTATE
06-18-2010, 2:09 PM
Hi Point = CRAP

Might as well compare a dog turd to a good steak.

SA and Kimber both make quality 1911's.

Ricky-Ray
06-18-2010, 2:13 PM
I have the GI Mil Spec and never had issues with it. Shot perfectly fine right out of the box. Still shoots nice and straight 9 years later.

ruchik
06-18-2010, 2:13 PM
Honestly, the whole thing about "must" upgrading a 1911 with things such as beavertail safeties, ambi safeties, match triggers, flaring ejection ports, etc. was largely due to marketing craze. They are not absolutely necessary. You only have to put them on your gun if you need it; for example, if you get no hammer bite, you don't need a beavertail, unless maybe you prefer the look and feel. If the gun didn't perform or function the way it was offered from the factory and had to be upgraded right out of the box just to work, Springfield Armory wouldn't have put the gun out for sale in the first place because no one would buy it.

tacticalcity
06-18-2010, 2:24 PM
Not being the biggest 1911 expert, I would say an $800-$1400 1911 is about the equivalent of a $600 Glock. It's not until you hit the $1500 price range that you start seeing something "special" about a 1911 over your Glocks, Sigs and so forth, and sometimes not even then. You're paying for the 1911 lore. That does not change the fact that it is a really nice platform. The Wilson Combats, Nighthawks, Les Baers and Ed Browns are indeed something really special and a joy to shoot. They offer a precise fit, finish, and trigger that makes them the gun world's equivalent to a Ferrari or Porsche. Its not just looks or brand name, they perform significantly better because considerably more detail goes into both their design and assembly. The lower end 1911s are nice guns, not any nicer than a lot of other really nice guns out there, most of which cost you less for what you get. That said, I would happily own a 1911 from Springfield or Kimber, though I would prefer to start at the Loaded or Custom Carry price point to avoid hammer bite. But only if it meant I could afford to keep my Glock as well. In my not so humble opinion, as arrogant as it may be, I believe Glocks and 1911s represent the two greatest handgun designs ever conceived. If my life were on the line, I would want one of those two models of handguns available to me.

DVSmith
06-18-2010, 2:34 PM
I bought a SA GI for classes and have put several thousand rounds through it. I abuse the you know what out of it and rarely clean the poor beast. I have never, and I mean never had a failure that was not an ammo problem (squib, primer, etc.)

I bought it because I didn't want one of my expensive 1911's dropped on the ground during class exercises. If this one hit the ground, it wouldn't bother me near as much as my Kimbers hitting the ground.

I would buy another in a heartbeat if I had a need for it.

It does not need tuning, polishing or any other such refinement. Mine certainly didn't need any break-in. I replaced the springs at about 2000 rounds. Not because anything was failing, but because a friend suggested it and they are cheap.

Bentot
06-18-2010, 2:35 PM
I have both GI and Mil-Spec models. I have not had a hammer bite with them even as I have changed the GI's hammer to a wide spur type. The both have a high count with factory fmj and my own reloads without any problems. But beware, If you don't catch BRD from AR's you might catch the 1911 fever :)

Ricky-Ray
06-18-2010, 2:41 PM
Like I've said, I've owned my MilSpec for 9 years or more now and I never did any upgrades to it. Well ok I did one. I change the grips to the Hogue rubber grips and that's all I've ever done to it and still shoots great.

BryanB
06-18-2010, 3:04 PM
Drider,

As an owner of a few Springfield Armory 1911's (Gi, Mil-Spec, TRP Operator) I can assure you that Springfield Armory puts out a quality product. My GI, and Mil-Spec are used constantly in my courses and I have yet to experience any malfunctions due to the firearm.

That being said when I let students use my TRP Operator one of the first comments out of their mouth is "wow my groups are tighter and it's more comfortable." No I am not telling you to go out there and buy a $1,600 handgun. What I am saying is if you are going to buy something like a G.I. or Mil-Spec I can pretty much guarantee you that you will put after market parts and get smith work done to your firearm. This will definitely put you into the realm of a Loaded Model.




I think every 1911 owner knows that SA and Hi-Point should never be mentioned in the same breath. No comparison, Apples to Pine cones, etc.

RedFord150 said it best.

Foriegn power
06-18-2010, 3:18 PM
Makes me feel much better, I think the Mil Spec will be on my own b day list!

sevensix2x51
06-18-2010, 3:21 PM
I'm sure Springfield cuts the feed ramp the same on all of its pistols. I know some ramps are more polished than others but they are all cut the same way.

you dont think the match grade springfields have ramped barrels? i am not trying to get in a debate, but i just assumed they did. all the cool guys have ramped barrels. either way, my GI springfield absolutely did NOT feed swc. ymmv.

i was just sharing my personal ownership experience over the course of 2 years with the pistol in question. it was a nice pistol, but for another couple hundred bucks, i am much happier with my pro carry II. but i didnt buy it to take to the range and feel nostalgic. i bought it to take everywhere i go, at all times, and be totally reliable.

.22guy
06-18-2010, 3:41 PM
I've had a Mil-spec Springfield for a few years now and it has never jammed and eats whatever I put in it. I sometimes carry it as my daily CCW weapon, and always do when coyote hunting. It hasn't let me down and I stake my life on that.

bigbob76
06-18-2010, 6:36 PM
The base model Springfield GI and Milspec models are just as capable as the more expensive 1911s, they just don't have the bells and whistles the more expensive models do. In no way should the plain jane Springfields be compared against a hi-point.

If I was going to spend the absolute minimum on a 1911, it would be the Springfield GI.

+1

Also, a lot of guys buy the entry level Springers just to get the frame and a few other parts basically. Since we can't buy 1911 frames to build a pistol this is one way to start out. My thinking is unless you're going to have a lot of expensive work done just save a little more and buy the Springer Loaded version. It has most of the features people spend money having done but it's ready to go right out of the box. After you shoot a few thousand rounds you'll know what you really want.

JanG
06-18-2010, 9:48 PM
i just got my gi last week after owning an RIA tactical for a year. got mostly for nostalgic reasons. accuracy is about the same, although RIA sights are easier to pick up, and more comfortable to shoot. i have a high grip and the gi hammer bites me every time.

as for reliability, i shot 200 rds an hour after picking up the gi, both fmj and hp. 2 ftf's with hp before hitting the 100 mark, no problems after that.

as for my ria, i've had very limited ftf's with hp, and only with the factory act mags. wilson mags cured that problem. now it runs reliably with fmj and hp. i don't use wadcutters so it's not an issue for me.

hope that helps.

BLD
06-18-2010, 10:15 PM
I don't own a GI or Mil-spec, but I've yet to meet anyone who has anything bad to say about these models (except the occasional hammer bite and the small sights on the GI). From what I hear even a Norinco 1911 is more favorable than a high point. In fact I hear that they are made with very strong steel. The fact is that the base model 1911s aren't exactly extremely tight and tend to run well with all FMJ/LRN and most HP ammo.

If my life depended on it I would definitely grab a GI/Mil-spec SA over a High Point.

TMC
06-18-2010, 10:53 PM
you dont think the match grade springfields have ramped barrels? i am not trying to get in a debate, but i just assumed they did. all the cool guys have ramped barrels. either way, my GI springfield absolutely did NOT feed swc. ymmv.



If your talking about a truly ramped barrel like the Clark-Para or Wilson-Nowlin style (see photo) then no, Springfield does not use ramped barrels in any of their 45's. Para-Ordnance, STI and Infinity are the only makers of 45's with a barrel with an integral feed ramp all the other use the traditional system with a ramp cut in the frame. Most makers of 9's, 40's and Supers use ramped barrels because in most cases they offer fully supported chambers. Even 1911 god Wilson Combat does not use ramped barrels for its 45's.

And like I said before, better sights, triggers and safeties make the gun more comfortable for the shooter which typically translates into better accuracy but if you take the shooter out of the equation is the slide frame and barrel fit that account accuracy and function and all Springfield's in that respect and the same.

CalNRA
06-18-2010, 11:28 PM
I don't know who has been feeding the OP that he needs a costly 1911 to be reliable, but I have yet to see a GI that doesn't feed HPs out of box.

that being said the Mil Spec is a better value.

Foriegn power
06-18-2010, 11:29 PM
Please quit the debating, so everything sounds pretty good about the Mil Spec what is sticker price on this pistol, people are paying?

23 Blast
06-19-2010, 3:47 AM
Hmm. Maybe I got an unusually tight GI, but I sold mine after it wouldn't feed rounds reliably. Got through maybe a total of 800 rounds through the gun, but mine was a problem child from Day One. Wouldn't feed. Then wouldn't extract. The magazine that came with the gun must've had a faulty spring because sometimes the action would cycle, I'd pull the trigger and nothing happened. I gave the gun and the magazine a thorough cleaning and ran the gun wet, which alleviated the problems somewhat, but still the gun wasn't 100% reliable, and that to me is the death knell for any of my handguns. Maybe mine was just a Monday or a Friday gun, but overall I simply wasn't impressed and sold it. Had the GI been my first 1911, it's likely I'd be soured forever on that platform. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on my financial situation), I had a Colt XSE that was supremely reliable out of the box and has been so with almost any brand and type of ammo I feed it. So I know the 1911 can be a magical gun when it works properly, but that damn Springer GI I had was definitely a lemon.

Omil
06-19-2010, 4:51 AM
Hey all I have this thought floating around and wanted to ask the experts in 1911's; is the Springfield 1911 model GI and Mil Spec equivalent to a $159.99 high point in the 1911 field? Meaning, am I buying a piece of metal that I cannot trust my life to because it will jam when I may need it most? Or since it's such a base model I must absolutely modify it or do some 'update' changes to make it function and form? Or is the model GI and Mil Spec a mighty contender and appeals for the first time 1911 buyer? The reason is, my birthday is coming around and for the past years, I've been buying a pistol around my birthday time as a present to myself. If i buy a 1911 most likely Mil Spec will I have a bad range time during my birthday with my Mil Spec? And be hitting my head for not spending another $200-300 for a higher end 1911? Fill me in on what you think.

Buy with what your budget will allows, if you could spent $$$, Yes, go for it. If not, your $159 Hi-Point is better than NOTHING. Everyone is different when it comes to priorities! Good luck.:)

tEN wOLVES fIVE sHOOTER
06-19-2010, 6:42 AM
I treated myself to a Mil-Spec for my birthday too, just got it this last April, and I couldn't be happier with my gun, it did have a little heavy trigger pull, so one call to SA, and they had me send it back on there dime, it's there now, SA makes quality guns, and they stand behind them 100%, I couldn't ask for better than that. and after learning how to grip my gun, I don't get the pinching in the web of my hand from the grip safety, the Mill Spec is a great gun, you won't be disappointed if you get one, the added refinements over the GI model are worth the extra money you will pay IMHO.

tEN wOLVES

sevensix2x51
06-19-2010, 8:09 AM
If your talking about a truly ramped barrel like the Clark-Para or Wilson-Nowlin style (see photo) then no, Springfield does not use ramped barrels in any of their 45's. Para-Ordnance, STI and Infinity are the only makers of 45's with a barrel with an integral feed ramp all the other use the traditional system with a ramp cut in the frame. Most makers of 9's, 40's and Supers use ramped barrels because in most cases they offer fully supported chambers. Even 1911 god Wilson Combat does not use ramped barrels for its 45's.

well ill be darned. i wasnt sure, but thanks for the info!

Please quit the debating, so everything sounds pretty good about the Mil Spec what is sticker price on this pistol, people are paying?

http://www.impactguns.com/store/springfield_1911.html
this should give you a ballpark feel for the cost... your local dealer, i dont know.

bigbob76
06-19-2010, 8:12 AM
Hmm. Maybe I got an unusually tight GI, but I sold mine after it wouldn't feed rounds reliably. Got through maybe a total of 800 rounds through the gun, but mine was a problem child from Day One. Wouldn't feed. Then wouldn't extract. The magazine that came with the gun must've had a faulty spring because sometimes the action would cycle, I'd pull the trigger and nothing happened. I gave the gun and the magazine a thorough cleaning and ran the gun wet, which alleviated the problems somewhat, but still the gun wasn't 100% reliable, and that to me is the death knell for any of my handguns. Maybe mine was just a Monday or a Friday gun, but overall I simply wasn't impressed and sold it. Had the GI been my first 1911, it's likely I'd be soured forever on that platform. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on my financial situation), I had a Colt XSE that was supremely reliable out of the box and has been so with almost any brand and type of ammo I feed it. So I know the 1911 can be a magical gun when it works properly, but that damn Springer GI I had was definitely a lemon.

Is there some reason you didn't send it to the manufacturer right away?

Katana
06-19-2010, 9:20 AM
A gunsmith once told me that if you have a problem with a SA 1911 don't worry, because when you send it in for repair it goes to the custom shop.

That way they get it right the first time, and they save time and money by not having it come back again.

Foriegn power
06-19-2010, 9:58 AM
thanks all, I'm not afraid to pay the $ for a pistol I believe guns should cost a lot for many reasons.

23 Blast
06-19-2010, 2:11 PM
Is there some reason you didn't send it to the manufacturer right away?

I guess I just kept telling myself that it was just a break-in issue, and that usage and diligent cleaning would sort it out. Although it jammed somewhat frequently (average 2-3 malfunctions per 50 rounds) , it wasn't as though something was obviously wrong or broken.

By the time I got fed up enough with it to stop wasting ammo on it and put the scarce, pricey .45s through a gun that "deserved" it, I was at a point where I was doing some paring down of the collection, and guns which disappointed me were among the first to be culled.

I guess bottom line was that I didn't want to keep it badly enough to try to get it fixed.

Bentot
06-19-2010, 3:55 PM
TMC, there's a model of Springfield that have a ramped barrel, model PX9104LP Loaded Full Size Lightweight Bi-Tone. This has an aluminum frame with a cutout for the ramped barrel.
I'm not sure whether it is a Clark-Para or Wilson-Nowlin style since my brother in law who owns it will not be back home until Sept.

TMC
06-19-2010, 4:01 PM
TMC, there's a model of Springfield that have a ramped barrel, model PX9104LP Loaded Full Size Lightweight Bi-Tone. This has an aluminum frame with a cutout for the ramped barrel.
I'm not sure whether it is a Clark-Para or Wilson-Nowlin style since my brother in law who owns it will not be back home until Sept.

I stand corrected, thanks!

brianinca
06-19-2010, 4:58 PM
>>>
thanks all, I'm not afraid to pay the $ for a pistol I believe guns should cost a lot for many reasons.
>>>

I bought a Milspec 15+ years ago, and I have a 1916 1911 I've been shooting since I was a little kid. I would NEVER buy a GI model, the 1911A1 was only better than the 1911 in that the hammer bite was less of an issue. I swapped the mainspring housing for a flat one, stole the old Pachmayr wrap grips from my old 1911 and dropped in a Wilson long trigger. That and good quality CMC and Wilson magazines are all I've ever felt neccessary for a $459 pistol (now >$600 from what I see).

On the other hand, my Dad is a borderline reactionary (conservative isn't strong enough a term) and he's happy as a clam with his "new" 1911A1 GI Milspec. Heavy trigger, OK - 10,000 rds and 10 years and it will be better (I got my 1911 from him). Terrible sights, OK - he grew up with them, he expects no better. Feeds everything, THAT is a function of magazines, he still does the "oh, I'll only use these at the range" dance with bad mags. I gave him two good stainless CMC mags so I know he has them.

At the time I bought the SAI Milspec, I'm pretty sure my Glock 21 that I bought a year or so earlier was MORE expensive. In every important (to me!) way, it's also a better pistol. I carried it CCW for ~12 years and then my work environment changed and I switched to a G33/G30 combo. Prior to that, in 12 years, I carried my 1911A1 Milspec TWO DAYS. One day carrying, I couldn't believe how heavy and uncomfortable it was. A month later, I figured I must have misremembered, so I carried it again - HOLY MOLY what a PITA.

I like shooting my Milspec, my little boys love shooting it with the Kimber 22LR upper, but it is what it is. The forged frame SAI's are certainly a cut above the cast framed PI clones and they bear no resemblance at all to cast zinc Hi-Points. If you want a 1911, that's a great way to go, if you want a good 45 ACP, there are other pistols that might suit you better.

Regards,
Brian in CA

stormvet
06-19-2010, 5:04 PM
A G.I. or Mil-Spec. 1911 is the equivalent of any other gun in its price range. Glock, XD, M&P whatever. Buy what you want and can afford.

Foriegn power
06-19-2010, 10:42 PM
Well, the situation is I love the Glock pistol and own two models in 9mm and .45ACP. I started this thread to get a general feel of what you all think about the 'base' model 1911's. My motto in life is less is more, for instance I would take a new car/truck with manual windows, manual shifting 4x4, manual this and that. I'm a standard type of dude who does not like things extra, that is why i am considering a Mil Spec 1911. Overall census I get is that it should be a good pistol.

stormvet
06-19-2010, 11:04 PM
A 1911 does not need to be loaded with options to be a good reliable, accurate gun. I have owned this Colt 1991a1 compact for 15 years.
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z207/2814V/8-14-0945016.jpg
It is a plain jane base 1911 with a 3.5 inch barrel. But it does everything my two Glocks and two XD's do. Release the safety, pull the trigger it fires. If I do my part it will hit what I'm shooting at, ejects the spent shellcasing, loads a new round and does it all over again untill the mag is empty and the slide locks back. I have alot more and prettier guns now, but they dont do anything my plane jane Colt 1911 doesn't do.

Foriegn power
06-19-2010, 11:12 PM
I just have to say, I despise of those rubber grips! No pun intended!

23 Blast
06-20-2010, 4:32 AM
I know. Rubber finger groove grips are a visual abomination on a 1911, yet functionally, they're terrific

stormvet
06-20-2010, 10:34 AM
Base 1911s have no front strap checkering, smooth as a baby's bottom and with the short grip tends to want to move on you during high valume shooting.
Like 23blast said, this gun is all about function. It aint pretty but it sure does put the work in.

five.five-six
06-20-2010, 10:46 AM
hipoints are pretty reliable, anyone here ever had one fail?

joedogboy
06-20-2010, 11:58 AM
I have purchased two Springfield 1911s. The first was the bare bones model (by whatever name they were calling it) back in 1989, and I later gave it to a friend as a wedding gift.
The second is pretty much the same, but with adjustable sights - I picked it up in 1993, and used it stock until last year, when I put on a commander style hammer and beavertail grip safety, after shooting a friend's Kimber and enjoying the feel of the beavertail safety.
While it is not as sweet to shoot as the Kimbers that several of my friends have, it cost about half as much, and works well for me.

Foriegn power
06-20-2010, 9:41 PM
hmmm...

tiko
06-20-2010, 9:57 PM
Enough said about SA GI, my GI eats everything, SWC, HP... No FTF for 2000 rds.