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develown
06-17-2010, 1:43 PM
I have a question regarding the legality of purchasing some rifles in Arizona to bring them with me to California.

I am currently active duty military stationed in the UK. However, in several months i will be traveling to Arizona to attend some training. I would like to buy some rifles in Arizona, take some leave and bring them via car into CA. From my skimming of Arizona law it seems perfectly legal for me to purchase your average rifle such as a Sig 556. In fact a Sig 556 is the primary rifle I'm looking at purchasing, but may be interested in some others. I am interesting in bringing a rifle like a Sig 556 home with me.

I will not be bringing in any hand guns at this time.

If i install a bullet button, transport it in a locked container, and bring in no normal 30 rnd magazines would it be legal to bring a SIG 556 into CA. Furthermore, upon my return to duty, would it be legal for me to leave the weapon with my parents?

Also, since I'm active duty military are their any special conditions that apply to me? If so, i would love to use this opportunity to bring in what would otherwise be non-CA legal weapons.

I'm pretty sure what I'm proposing is legal, however I'm posting on here so i can get a sanity check. However, I am a bit less sure about the legality of leaving them with my parents. Furthermore, their not criminals and they live right next to a school, i'm not sure if that matters.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Untamed1972
06-17-2010, 2:03 PM
What is your state do you claim residency in?

develown
06-17-2010, 2:06 PM
California

Untamed1972
06-17-2010, 2:27 PM
An AZ dealer will not sell a gun to someone with a CA ID because CA requires all firearms transactions to be handled thru a CA FFL.

So the simple answer to your question is NO you will not be able to purchase rifles in AZ while you are there.

You could purchase a rifle and have the dealer ship it to an CA dealer willing to accept it and process the transfer, but they would hafta be rifles that are otherwise legal to own in CA (IE no banned by name AWs) and legally configured to meet CA requirements. But unless it's a really smokin' deal, you'd be better off to just buy them here.

Josh3239
06-17-2010, 2:36 PM
No, they will not sell to a Californian. In fact, even if they can sell it to you it seems most stores have a policy of not selling to non-residents.

develown
06-17-2010, 2:39 PM
are you sure? from what i read you don't need state residency to buy in AZ. Also, regardless I will be on military orders there and be there for 6 weeks. If residency is required my orders should suffice i imagine.

choprzrul
06-17-2010, 2:40 PM
Straight from the ATF's website: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

Q: What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]


.

choprzrul
06-17-2010, 2:45 PM
On a side note, Google's search bots must live on CGN. This thread was under 1 hour old when I did the Google search to find the ATF answer I posted above. I searched for

"active duty military purchase firearms"

...and behold, this thread was search result #4 on the first page of results. I think that we are being watched very closely and should be ever mindful of what we post here.

My $.02

.

develown
06-17-2010, 2:45 PM
Good find, thanks

Guess this the wrong website to be asking people about Arizona gun law, lol.

Thanks for helping every one.

Silverlake223
06-17-2010, 2:49 PM
You can buy a SIG556 with BB at Rettings Gun Shop in Culver City (LA) area. I was there 2 hours ago and they had a bunch.

Dr Rockso
06-17-2010, 2:50 PM
Good find, thanks

Guess this the wrong website to be asking people about Arizona gun law, lol.

Thanks for helping every one.

You're not asking about AZ gun laws, you're asking about federal gun laws.

thayne
06-17-2010, 2:51 PM
Get an AZ drivers license when you get there. Then it shouldnt be a problem? Although I think the better way would be to buy it and have it sent to a CA-FFL

develown
06-17-2010, 3:48 PM
ehh i might just drop my plan. Its just so annoying living on Anti-Gun Island (the UK), I need something to look forward too. :P

You think CA gun laws are bad, try living on my side of the ocean :(

Lone_Gunman
06-17-2010, 3:58 PM
Can't you buy with a military ID in AZ? Also wbere did you say your permanent duty station was?

Markus
06-17-2010, 3:59 PM
Hmm I wonder if you can apply for a C&R then you can get all the cool C&R handguns and rifles there.

cmth
06-17-2010, 4:00 PM
Federal law generally allows non-residents to purchase long guns out of state, provided that the laws of the person's home state are followed. Since FFLs in other states cannot use the DROS system of California, state law cannot be followed; therefore California residents cannot legally purchase long guns out of state. If you saw a gun in another state that you wanted to buy, it would have to be shipped to a California FFL and the usual DROS and 10 day wait would have to be followed. Some Californians have been successful in purchasing long guns out of state from clueless FFLs, but those FFLs are placing their license (at the very least) in jeopardy by performing those transactions.

Flopper
06-17-2010, 4:09 PM
are you sure? from what i read you don't need state residency to buy in AZ.

You're correct, AZ doesn't require AZ residency for you to buy long arms in AZ, BUT. . .

CA doesn't allow CA residents to buy out of state without it going through a CA FFL.

It's not an AZ problem, it's a CA problem (kind of a trend, huh?).

Untamed1972
06-17-2010, 4:15 PM
Get an AZ drivers license when you get there. Then it shouldnt be a problem? Although I think the better way would be to buy it and have it sent to a CA-FFL

This you could do, but wouldnt need to be a drivers license. Just get an AZ Id card, they are pretty cheap and easy to get thru the DMV. But it will need to have a street address on it, not a PO or APO address. That would get you anything you want including handguns.

dustoff31
06-17-2010, 4:57 PM
are you sure? from what i read you don't need state residency to buy in AZ. Also, regardless I will be on military orders there and be there for 6 weeks. If residency is required my orders should suffice i imagine.

There is your problem, right there. TDY. If this was a PCS move, you would be fine. It's based on your permanent duty station.

Lone_Gunman
06-17-2010, 5:00 PM
If the perm. duty station is not in CA then he is not a resident of CA it's just where his parents live right? AFAIK he is a resident of wherever that perm. duty station is so he would be fine if it's not CA.

dustoff31
06-17-2010, 5:04 PM
If the perm. duty station is not in CA then he is not a resident of CA it's just where his parents live right? AFAIK he is a resident of wherever that perm. duty station is so he would be fine if it's not CA.

I believe he said that his permanent duty station is, and will remain in the UK, and claims CA residency. He will be in AZ only temporarily.

Whether we use CA, AZ, or Fed law, he is out of luck.

postal
06-17-2010, 5:13 PM
I didnt read the whole thread.

My understanding is-

Your state of residence does not matter.

As long as you have orders which shows a duty station in a state, you are treated as a resident of THAT state.

Orders for temp duty to AZ, bring those orders to the gun shop, and you're GTG.

postal
06-17-2010, 5:15 PM
ehh i might just drop my plan. Its just so annoying living on Anti-Gun Island (the UK), I need something to look forward too. :P

You think CA gun laws are bad, try living on my side of the ocean :(

About as likely as me visiting meck suck o!:43:

dustoff31
06-17-2010, 5:27 PM
Orders for temp duty to AZ, bring those orders to the gun shop, and you're GTG.

Incorrect. It's based on one's permanent duty station.

From the federal law posted above by another member:

A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained.

develown
06-17-2010, 5:51 PM
yea its looking a lot like i'm out of luck. Thanks guys

stitchnicklas
06-17-2010, 6:01 PM
(1)any person can get a az id card which will allow them purchase,then 6 weeks later you <move to ca>,.....it is a very gray-delicate area.....(2)best bet is have your dad buy the gun for you in ca then you can be given the gun use it then leave it with him,ends the 6 month rule and keeps all involved out of jail,the school zone does not matter that much for stored weapons as long as they are unloaded and stored properly. i recommend option #2

Call_me_Tom
06-17-2010, 6:12 PM
A lot of FUD in here.

You can purchase a weapon in any state with your military ID card & a copy of your orders, PERIOD.

To register an AW in Ca. you need to fill out the military AW permit with the serial number of the weapon, pay the fee (as I recal it's $73) & wait for the permit to arrive; it can take up to 90 days. Note, the weapon can not come into Ca. until you have the permit in hand.

develown
06-17-2010, 6:12 PM
hmm interesting idea stitchnicklas, might have to seriously consider that

develown
06-17-2010, 6:14 PM
A lot of FUD in here.

You can purchase a weapon in any state with your military ID card & a copy of your orders, PERIOD.

To register an AW in Ca. you need to fill out the military AW permit with the serial number of the weapon, pay the fee (as I recal it's $73) & wait for the permit to arrive; it can take up to 90 days. Note, the weapon can not come into Ca. until you have the permit in hand.

Please tell me more about this military AW permit

CavTrooper
06-17-2010, 6:17 PM
A lot of FUD in here.

You can purchase a weapon in any state with your military ID card & a copy of your PCS orders, PERIOD.

To register an AW in Ca. you need to fill out the military AW permit with the serial number of the weapon, pay the fee (as I recal it's $73) & wait for the permit to arrive; it can take up to 90 days. Note, the weapon can not come into Ca. until you have the permit in hand.

Need to have PCS orders, not TDY orders.

develown
06-17-2010, 6:51 PM
Yea that did go through my head cavtrooper, but figured id run it by the calgun community first.

M14 Junkie
06-17-2010, 8:42 PM
A lot of FUD in here.

You can purchase a weapon in any state with your military ID card & a copy of your orders, PERIOD.

To register an AW in Ca. you need to fill out the military AW permit with the serial number of the weapon, pay the fee (as I recal it's $73) & wait for the permit to arrive; it can take up to 90 days. Note, the weapon can not come into Ca. until you have the permit in hand.

I thought Ca. does not allow new importation/registration of AW's.

Are you saying that because he's in the military, that Ca. will allow him to import and register an AW?

If so, this just does not sound right to me. The whole point of the stupid ban was to eliminate any more of the evil weapons from coming into the state, right?

thayne
06-17-2010, 8:44 PM
I thought Ca. does not allow new importation/registration of AW's.

Are you saying that because he's in the military, that Ca. will allow him to import and register an AW?

Active military can register existing AW that they owned while living in another state when they move to CA.

winnre
06-17-2010, 8:57 PM
Active military can register existing AW that they owned while living in another state when they move to CA.

Time to PCS to Tampa for a week!

thayne
06-17-2010, 10:01 PM
Time to PCS to Tampa for a week!

I dont remember the specific requirements, but you can google it. "California Military Assault Weapon Permit"

CavTrooper
06-17-2010, 10:02 PM
I thought Ca. does not allow new importation/registration of AW's.

Are you saying that because he's in the military, that Ca. will allow him to import and register an AW?

If so, this just does not sound right to me. The whole point of the stupid ban was to eliminate any more of the evil weapons from coming into the state, right?

Active military can register existing AW that they owned while living in another state when they move to CA.

Werd.

;)

M14 Junkie
06-17-2010, 10:03 PM
Active military can register existing AW that they owned while living in another state when they move to CA.

So the ban only applies to civilians? That exception to the law is more stupid than the law itself.:confused:

Librarian
06-17-2010, 10:12 PM
Active military can register existing AW that they owned while living in another state when they move to CA.

Yes, but the reg is valid ONLY while on AD - if you separate while in CA, the registration is no longer valid.

xLusi0n
06-17-2010, 10:17 PM
Don't buy from those shops outside Ft. Huachuca...they're rip offs and their customer service sucks.

ke6guj
06-17-2010, 10:52 PM
Are you saying that because he's in the military, that Ca. will allow him to import and register an AW?yes, if he is a resident of a different state who gets PCS'ed to CA, he can register his AWs and then import them.

If so, this just does not sound right to me. The whole point of the stupid ban was to eliminate any more of the evil weapons from coming into the state, right?I think the rational behind this is that .mil personel do not get to decide where they move to and get sent wherever they are assigned to. So, a NV .mil person who owns an AW and gets PCS'ed to CA has to move to CA and would either need to sell the AW or leave it in NV if there wasn't an MAWP program. Since he doesn't have a choice not to move to CA, it isn't "right" to require him to sell his personal property before he moves here.

That is different from Joe Public, a resident of NV, deciding that he wants to move to CA. He doesn't have to move to CA if he doesn't want to, so he has to make a choice to get rid of the AW, leave it behind, or not move to CA.

SP1200
06-18-2010, 1:32 AM
Get an AZ drivers license when you get there. Then it shouldnt be a problem? Although I think the better way would be to buy it and have it sent to a CA-FFL

^ The above.

Consider AZ "your home" then when you transfer back to CA, you are a new resident.

pgg
06-18-2010, 3:21 AM
OP is outta luck. California residents are not eligible for MAWPs. Even if they leave the state due to military service, they can't bring AWs back.

EOD Guy
06-18-2010, 6:16 AM
I didnt read the whole thread.

My understanding is-

Your state of residence does not matter.

As long as you have orders which shows a duty station in a state, you are treated as a resident of THAT state.

Orders for temp duty to AZ, bring those orders to the gun shop, and you're GTG.

No. Temporary duty station does not count. It must be his permanent duty station.

EOD Guy
06-18-2010, 6:23 AM
A lot of FUD in here.

You can purchase a weapon in any state with your military ID card & a copy of your orders, PERIOD.



That statement is big time FUD.

Under Federal law, for the purpose of purchasing firearms, a military member is a resident of the State in which their PERMANENT duty station is located. Temporary duty station locations do not count, nor does he have any other special privileges in other States. The only exception is if the member commutes daily from a nearby State. He could then purchase in either State. Also, someone stationed at Ft Campbell, KY can purchase in both Kentucky and Tennessee.

Decoligny
06-18-2010, 7:49 AM
This you could do, but wouldnt need to be a drivers license. Just get an AZ Id card, they are pretty cheap and easy to get thru the DMV. But it will need to have a street address on it, not a PO or APO address. That would get you anything you want including handguns.

Being in AZ for 6 weeks on TDY orders DOES NOT make you an AZ Resident.

Getting an AZ ID Card, for the purpose of skirting his CA Resident status, could get him into a whole lot of hot water.

You may not like the laws, but you still have to follow them, or you risk paying the price for not following them.

Decoligny
06-18-2010, 7:52 AM
A lot of FUD in here.

You can purchase a weapon in any state with your military ID card & a copy of your orders, PERIOD.
To register an AW in Ca. you need to fill out the military AW permit with the serial number of the weapon, pay the fee (as I recal it's $73) & wait for the permit to arrive; it can take up to 90 days. Note, the weapon can not come into Ca. until you have the permit in hand.

You can purchase a weapon in any state with your military ID card & a copy of your PCS orders showing that your permanent duty station is in the state where you are buying the firearm, PERIOD.

rjf
06-18-2010, 8:36 AM
Can you change your home of record to AZ, and get an AZ DL, buy what you want in AZ even if PCS to CA. Register your vehicle in AZ (cash saved will buy a gun). No CA state income tax.

winnre
06-18-2010, 9:03 AM
I thought about changing my HOR to Florida when stationed there. But I have a house in California and that would have made me liable for HUGE property taxes.

Rem1492
06-18-2010, 9:22 AM
Are you TDY enroute? So from UK to AZ then CA?

Id figure you could buy in AZ, then PCS to CA. Some dealers will sell with TDY enroute orders, during extended training. Others will not.
I see the Fed law states PCS'd location but consider if you are not PCS'd there yet....

If training in AZ enroute takes a year+ until you physically move to CA, are you telling me your RIGHTS as an American are suspended, and that you cannot buy a gun for defense or sport until you physically step foot in CA? (sure the states are next to each other, but you could be TDY enroute to Maxwell and then CA where you cannot simply drive over to pre-buy a gun, same idea though). Likewise, if you are TDYE to AZ and at that time want a gun, you legally cannot buy a gun in CA yet because you have not PCS'd there and legally become a resident with the base in that state, barring getting a CA ID.

What if orders are amended, fund cites change or PCS location is changed before you ever get there, does that make you a criminal for buying a gun in CA ahead of time?

There is the chicken before the egg concept with fails logic for TDY enroute locations, which is why NICS background check will let you buy a gun in ANY state with TDY enroute orders, like Tom said. I've loaded up at gunshows all over the country as long as I flew on my own plane or drove my own car. All you need is mil ID and a copy of the orders. Simple.

Also, if I recall, the CA assault weapons military registration is like $70 per gun or something insane and I think it must be kept on base. Perhaps its been reworded, check on it.

pgg
06-18-2010, 2:29 PM
Also, if I recall, the CA assault weapons military registration is like $70 per gun or something insane and I think it must be kept on base. Perhaps its been reworded, check on it.

No. I PCS'd to California from Virginia last year and got a permit so I could bring my Colt 6920 and two Armalite AR10s into the state. High cap magazines are still forbidden though.

It's $73 to register all of your AWs. You can keep them at home, take them to the range, let friends use them (provided you are present). It's an easy (if slow) process and it's a shall issue permit. It's like being a (mostly) free person again.

Once a permit has been issued, you can't add weapons to it. I can go back to Virginia (where I'm a legal resident, own a house, have my cars registered, have a DL, am registered to vote, etc) and buy all the CA-illegal AWs I want ... but I couldn't add them to the permit and bring them to CA.

Once I get out of the military, I need to either surrender the AWs :no: or take them out of California :yes:.



Can you change your home of record to AZ, and get an AZ DL, buy what you want in AZ even if PCS to CA. Register your vehicle in AZ (cash saved will buy a gun). No CA state income tax.

I've been told that they've really cracked down on that kind of thing. I don't know who "they" are or exactly what they've done ... but apparently now you need to take more concrete steps to demonstrate your intent to settle in a state. I don't know what the threshold is. I'm fairly certain you can no longer just walk over to PSD, fill out the form that changes your state of residence to Florida, and just not pay any state income tax. A PO Box and vehicle registration may not cut it either.

CavTrooper
06-19-2010, 6:19 PM
OP is outta luck. California residents are not eligible for MAWPs. Even if they leave the state due to military service, they can't bring AWs back.

do you have some citiation to back this up?

Roadrunner
06-19-2010, 9:33 PM
I may have missed it, but whatever state your base is in, that is your residence at the time. As for ID, I used my military ID to purchase firearms, no one ever saw my California drivers license. Of course that was the Air Force and I was in Washington state at the time. However, I have serious doubts that it would be any different in any other branch of service or state.

pgg
06-19-2010, 10:10 PM
do you have some citiation to back this up?

The permit allows you to possess, in California, while here on PCS orders, weapons that are legal for you to own in your home state. If your home state is California, the MAWP doesn't help you.

Call Teri (916) 263-0714 - as of a few months ago she was the person at DOJ who processes the permits.

ETA - http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaMilitaryAWP

CavTrooper
06-20-2010, 6:37 AM
The permit allows you to possess, in California, while here on PCS orders, weapons that are legal for you to own in your home state. If your home state is California, the MAWP doesn't help you.

Call Teri (916) 263-0714 - as of a few months ago she was the person at DOJ who processes the permits.

ETA - http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/LegalCaliforniaMilitaryAWP

Go read the law and tell me where it says anything about your "home state". Id be interested to hear it and Im sure the DOJ would be too, considering theyve issued and renewed at least one permit to a guy whos home of record is in California.

ETA***

Whoever wrote the "wiki" on that is uniformed.

charliedontsurf334
06-20-2010, 7:49 AM
You have to be in AZ for at least 3 months to get one of their ID cards.

EOD Guy
06-20-2010, 8:52 AM
You have to be in AZ for at least 3 months to get one of their ID cards.

Unless they've changed their policy lately, no you don't. I was there for less than a week when I got mine. I didn't lie on the application either.

pgg
06-20-2010, 7:01 PM
Go read the law and tell me

:shrug:

All I can tell you is the information I was given, direct from the person who processes the applications at the DOJ, just a few months ago when I applied for and received a MAWP.

It's nice to hear they've issued them to CA residents.

Call_me_Tom
06-22-2010, 9:47 AM
:shrug:

All I can tell you is the information I was given, direct from the person who processes the applications at the DOJ, just a few months ago when I applied for and received a MAWP.

It's nice to hear they've issued them to CA residents.

A active duty Cali military resident can register a AW.

I'm born in Palo Alto, Ca. raised in Fresno, Ca. and stationed in Oceanside, Ca. and can register an AW.

Rem1492
06-22-2010, 12:28 PM
Well, lotsa answers here.
Seems DOJ says one thing but, reality, in toms case, is much different.

Lets go with actual events, as opposed to a phone call or hearesay.

So, it looks like AD mil CAN register an AW, regardless of his home state and regardless if its a new AW or not?

i.e. going to AZ while ALREADY PCS'd to CA, buying AW, then registering it as mil. Then once approved, taking it into state lines.


I guess my FUD was old on the mil registration and keeping it on base only, I called DOJ in 2006 on this and got a FAX stating that was the restriction, glad to hear you can take em off base now. Looks like inquiring the CA DOJ on anything is probably the worst idea and most illogical path.

Yankee Clipper
06-22-2010, 7:17 PM
Iím glad to see that our military personnel are given preferential treatment when it comes to their personal firearms. It wasnít always like that and in some locations we were treated, in this country, like we were the bottom of a spittoon.
If after MacDonald and incorporation I would anticipate, and hope, that this unequal treatment of civilians and military personnel who own personal assault weapons in California, will be one of the reasons the CA-AWB is overturned in court.
As this thread has indicated, the CA-DOJ has reversed itself and then contradicted itself. If the DOJ canít properly interpret the AWB for the benefit of our state citizens, and military personnel, then itís way past time this AWB should be considered a valid enforceable law.
Sorry for the rant!

todd2968
06-22-2010, 7:46 PM
I didnt read the whole thread.

My understanding is-

Your state of residence does not matter.

As long as you have orders which shows a duty station in a state, you are treated as a resident of THAT state.

Orders for temp duty to AZ, bring those orders to the gun shop, and you're GTG.



Wrong your military orders must show your PCS permanent change of station (over 1 year) to buy a weapon.
If you try a purchase from a private individual you may be actually breaking the law that person has to sell only to a legal resident of AZ


And only out of state residents (military) can register an AW if you are CA resident you are SOL

Call_me_Tom
06-25-2010, 11:19 AM
And only out of state residents (military) can register an AW if you are CA resident you are SOL
WRONG.

I have the registration paperwork for my next rifle sitting right on my desk as I type this. Call Ca DOJ if you have questions.

Untamed1972
06-25-2010, 12:05 PM
WRONG.

I have the registration paperwork for my next rifle sitting right on my desk as I type this. Call Ca DOJ if you have questions.

how do you get a permit for a rifle you dont own yet? Don't you hafta submit the S/N on the permit app? If you can't buy one w/o a permit, can't buy one out of state cuz you're a CA resident, and can't get a permit for one you down own yet how does that work?

ke6guj
06-25-2010, 12:11 PM
how do you get a permit for a rifle you dont own yet? Don't you hafta submit the S/N on the permit app? If you can't buy one w/o a permit, can't buy one out of state cuz you're a CA resident, and can't get a permit for one you down own yet how does that work?

well, you could pay for the rifle and put it on layaway. That way, you'd have the info needed for "your" rifle, even though it isn't in your possession yet.

todd2968
06-25-2010, 3:35 PM
WRONG.

I have the registration paperwork for my next rifle sitting right on my desk as I type this. Call Ca DOJ if you have questions.


I don't have any questions just answers. http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Moving_to_California_with_firearms#Active_Duty_Mil itary_and_.27assault_weapons.27

Either you are n't talking about an AW or you claim residence out of state or you are LE