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View Full Version : Explain 922r with a Saiga rifle


granelli
06-17-2010, 1:33 PM
So say I keep my sporter stock configuration and put on a muzzle compensator and my old normal cap AK mags, is this legal or do I have to change more parts to keep it 922r legal. I understand the evil features pretty well but I'm not totally sure on this one. I mean there are M1a's with muzzle comps and over 10rd magazine that have no bullet button.

djleisure
06-17-2010, 2:07 PM
It is generally accepted that once you start using hi-cap mags in your Saiga that you have taken it out of its "sporting" status - especially if you need to modify the Saiga (bullet guide, mag release) to be able to accept and feed w/ your hi-caps. 922r is a funny thing and isn't necessarily black and white. For more info on 922r and Saiga's, I suggest you check out the 922r forum over at saiga-12.com here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=65

granelli
06-17-2010, 3:18 PM
Thanks for the response, It isn't very clear cut as I've been finding out. It seems like once you start tampering with the gun, it's best just to build it with new and (American?) parts like the trigger kit, PG, comp, and BB.

supermario
06-17-2010, 5:09 PM
If you buy the Dinzag Fire control group (FCG) it will count as 2 compliant parts and it replaces your OEM fire control group to keep it in stock configuration. Then if you add a tapco Saiga piston and a Tapco handuard. That will give you the 4 compiant parts you need and then you would be able to use standard AK mag (hicap prebans) if you already legally owned them of course. Thats exactly what I am going to do, becus i dont want to have to depend on the mags for compliant parts.

dk94044
06-17-2010, 10:28 PM
it must be a muzzle break and not a flash suppressor, even then it falls into the "grey" area of interpretation. Because there is the unclear question whether the addition of the muzzle break removes the sporting classification. For legal issues, always carry copies of your paperwork, if you do any mods, have receipts to prove the parts are American made vs foreign. 922r states you can not have more than 10 foreign made parts... For more info see www.saiga-12.com forums for conversion sticky and legal info.

omgwtfbbq
06-17-2010, 11:05 PM
The law pertains specifically to imports and as I recall the rule is just as you stated, ones the firearm is altered from it's original imported state... it must then adhere to the 922r compliance rule.

SJgunguy24
06-17-2010, 11:20 PM
it must be a muzzle break and not a flash suppressor, even then it falls into the "grey" area of interpretation. Because there is the unclear question whether the addition of the muzzle break removes the sporting classification.

Brake is a non issue

For legal issues, always carry copies of your paperwork, if you do any mods, have receipts to prove the parts are American made vs foreign.

There has been zero convictions for 922r violations. I'm not gonna carry paperwork to show a cop who has no Idea what 922r is anyway. That is an obscure import law the Feds came up with to keep foregin military type rifles out of the US.


922r states you can not have more than 10 foreign made parts... For more info see www.saiga-12.com forums for conversion sticky and legal info.

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

This is the check list from the Gunwiki site, plug in what you want and find out if it's legal.

You wanna hi cap mags in a Saiga? Here's the best cheap way to get it done.

Pick up a Tapco G2 (3 parts) and move the FCG back where nature intended it to be.
A Tapco buttstock (1 part) gets installed and your now compliant, and can legally use 10+ mags.
You will need a bullet guide and need to remove some material from the mag catch to get the 7.62 AK mags to lock in.

SJgunguy24
06-17-2010, 11:22 PM
The law pertains specifically to imports and as I recall the rule is just as you stated, ones the firearm is altered from it's original imported state... it must then adhere to the 922r compliance rule.

DING DING!!!! We have a winner.

If you modify the rifle from the way it was imported, it must comply with 922r

drunktank
06-18-2010, 12:19 AM
As for the OP's question, as long as he uses a rebuilt mag with U.S. parts, and one other item, such as a U.S. made forearm, he is GTG right? Since, that's 4 domestic parts installed.

Also, using a break vs. a flash-hider allows him to not have to install a mag lock, correct?

Some things I read in Saiga12 were either unclear or they pertained to converted Saigas. Thanks

SJgunguy24
06-18-2010, 6:39 AM
As for the OP's question, as long as he uses a rebuilt mag with U.S. parts, and one other item, such as a U.S. made forearm, he is GTG right? Since, that's 4 domestic parts installed.

IMO using mags to comply with 922r is bad juju, all it takes is you forgetting to use the right mag and your now breaking the law. It could get lost, stolen, or who knows what, fix the gun and you'll have nothing to worry about.

Also, using a break vs. a flash-hider allows him to not have to install a mag lock, correct?

Muzzle brake is not an AW feature and is OK without a mag lock. A flash supressor/hider is unsporting per BATFE and CA DOJ, and will need a mag lock.

Some things I read in Saiga12 were either unclear or they pertained to converted Saigas. Thanks

In CA it doesn't matter, all Saiga shotguns must have a mag lock.

drunktank
06-18-2010, 11:28 AM
thanks

ivsamhell
06-18-2010, 11:32 AM
In CA it doesn't matter, all Saiga shotguns must have a mag lock.

shotguns, yes. this thread is about rifles though.

stix213
06-18-2010, 12:59 PM
922r is really easy to understand. The deal is foreign guns are illegal under federal law if they are not configured for sporting purposes. It has nothing to do with you just making a modification to the gun, and have everything to do with if you have made a non-sporting modification. This has nothing to do with bullet buttons or CA law at all what-so-ever

Non-sporting features include:
* large capacity magazine
* Folding/telescoping stocks
* Pistol grips (not to be confused with thumbhole stocks, even Dragunov-style ones)
* Ability to accept a bayonet
* Ability to accept Flash suppressors / hiders
* Integrated, military-style bipods
* Grenade launchers
* Night sights
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/LegalFederal922rFeatures

You put any of those on your foreign made gun and it is illegal until you change out enough parts to make it not legally foreign. A gun is only foreign if it has more than 10 foreign parts.

Then you just swap specific counted parts until you get yourself down to 10 or fewer foreign parts. See link

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

E-120
06-19-2010, 10:52 AM
I start te conversion process Monday morning. Lookout zombies.

drunktank
06-19-2010, 2:03 PM
922r is really easy to understand. The deal is foreign guns are illegal under federal law if they are not configured for sporting purposes. It has nothing to do with you just making a modification to the gun, and have everything to do with if you have made a non-sporting modification. This has nothing to do with bullet buttons or CA law at all what-so-ever

Non-sporting features include:
* large capacity magazine
* Folding/telescoping stocks
* Pistol grips (not to be confused with thumbhole stocks, even Dragunov-style ones)
* Ability to accept a bayonet
* Ability to accept Flash suppressors / hiders
* Integrated, military-style bipods
* Grenade launchers
* Night sights
http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/LegalFederal922rFeatures

You put any of those on your foreign made gun and it is illegal until you change out enough parts to make it not legally foreign. A gun is only foreign if it has more than 10 foreign parts.

Then you just swap specific counted parts until you get yourself down to 10 or fewer foreign parts. See link

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

Good post. If it was in reference to mine regarding a bullet button, I was talking about using a flash hider over a muzzle break, which I though would force you to use one.

Swift Justice
06-19-2010, 5:10 PM
Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of someone being prosecuted (on an individual basis vs. a dealer) for a 922r violation for modifying their Saiga and not using enough US made parts? I.E. adding hi-cap mag capability and nothing else?

dk94044
06-19-2010, 7:17 PM
922r is federal and yes, on the Saiga forum lots of stories where guns were confiscated by LE... the ATF get involved and it is not something you want to mess around with. With great power comes great responsibility. Claiming that you were not aware this or that is unacceptable, you will land in jail with heavy fines, firearm may also not be returned to you.
Keep to the rules of never say ANYTHING to the cops if fire arm is confiscated, always have your 2nd amendment knowledgeable lawyer's number in your wallet, have copies of your paperwork at home and also with your AR, AK, whatever it may be.
There are just things you have to deal with when owning a Saiga or other off list