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Donny1
06-17-2010, 10:10 AM
My Mother lives in AZ. I know she can gift/sell me a non-roster handgun.

What is the legality here. There is a specific handgun I want. Can I have her go buy it in her name and just gift it to me. Of course I'm giving her the money and she is clearly buying it for me but know one could prove that. Is there some time period, etc. that would bring up a red flag with the feds or doj?

Stupid law! This gun is identical in function to others made by the same manufacturer. It even has the LCI and mag disconnect.

I thought if it was shown to be only different to another model in cosmetics in could be rostered. Do they have to pay an additional fee when that is the case?

In case your wondering it's a Ruger P512MKIIIRP. The RP being Replaceable Panels (grips). Otherwise identical.

Rekrab
06-17-2010, 11:38 AM
Well, no one would have known if you didn't post about it here! :43:

But in all seriousness, intra-familial transfers are roster exempt as long as it's not an assault weapon. If you're having it shipped, an FFL will need to receive it so make sure your FFL knows that so they won't give you hassle about it. I'm not sure how the OP Law form will work in a shipping situation though. You might want to ask on the FFL forum for better specifics.

littlejake
06-17-2010, 12:58 PM
I thought if it was shown to be only different to another model in cosmetics it could be rostered. Do they have to pay an additional fee when that is the case?

I'm only going to reply to this part of your question... Yes they have to pay additional fees to roster a gun that is identical to one already on the roster with only cosmetic differences.

4DSJW
06-17-2010, 5:07 PM
My Mother lives in AZ. I know she can gift/sell me a non-roster handgun.

She can give it to you but if you pay her for it I believe that that would constitute a "Straw-Man" purchase, quite illegal. She can give it to you as a gift but you will have to have it shipped to a CA FFL to transfer it into your name to meet Federal law. CA considers it an Intra-familial transfer.

Rekrab
06-17-2010, 5:11 PM
A straw purchase only occurs if the transfer is done illegally. A straw purchase is when a non-prohibited person buys a gun for a prohibited person. If he is a prohibited person he will not be able to register the gun.

Malthusian
06-17-2010, 5:28 PM
I have a similar situation. I have been unable to locate a FFL dealer to facilitate a handgun transfer interstate. I have visited, in person, 3 dealers and they all "claim" they cannot sell a not rostered gun received from out of state, even if it is intra-familial.

Better get a FFL dealer lined up before you try to arrange your intra-familial gift transfer.

Other people on this forum have had success in other areas of the PRK,
eventually I may have success. I just need to keep looking

halifax
06-17-2010, 5:32 PM
Check this out: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=4472258#post4472258

This may be germane also: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4428117&postcount=12

nn3453
06-17-2010, 5:40 PM
She can give it to you but if you pay her for it I believe that that would constitute a "Straw-Man" purchase, quite illegal.

As the other guy said, a straw purchase is one where a non prohibited person buys something on the behalf of a prohibited person. Please don't spread FUD. Buying a gun and then gifting it to someone (after properly transferring it) is not illegal, as long as you don't make a frequent practice out of it or run a business.

Librarian
06-17-2010, 5:51 PM
I have a similar situation. I have been unable to locate a FFL dealer to facilitate a handgun transfer interstate. I have visited, in person, 3 dealers and they all "claim" they cannot sell a not rostered gun received from out of state, even if it is intra-familial.

Better get a FFL dealer lined up before you try to arrange your intra-familial gift transfer.

Other people on this forum have had success in other areas of the PRK,
eventually I may have success. I just need to keep looking

Actually, if this is exactly what the FFLs are sayingthey cannot sell a not rostered gun received from out of statethat's accurate; the difficulty with the logic is that we very carefully designate such transfers as gifts, not sales.

4DSJW
06-17-2010, 5:51 PM
As the other guy said, a straw purchase is one where a non prohibited person buys something on the behalf of a prohibited person. Please don't spread FUD. Buying a gun and then gifting it to someone (after properly transferring it) is not illegal, as long as you don't make a frequent practice out of it or run a business.

Just to be sure please confirm that this is legal. A CA resident can give an out-of-state qualified relative, for intra-familial transfer, the money to purchase a handgun on their behalf, specifically because it is not on the CA roster, for the purpose of sending it into CA.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but that sounds illegal and was a part of OP's question. I agree that a gift is absolutely legal, but the OP was using an either/or situation.

Thanks!

Donny1
06-17-2010, 7:47 PM
I would be giving her the money but I would never state that to any FFL involved, or anyone else that new of the actual transaction. As far as anyone is concerned, she bought it of her own will and decided after the fact to gift it to me.

"the money to purchase a handgun on their behalf, specifically because it is not on the CA roster, for the purpose of sending it into CA." <----- That would be a no-no!

Malthusian
06-18-2010, 4:39 AM
Actually, if this is exactly what the FFLs are saying that's accurate; the difficulty with the logic is that we very carefully designate such transfers as gifts, not sales.

I stand corrected in my misquotation of their verb-age

That being said. They claim they cannot "transfer" the gun to me if it is not
on the roster

I have specifically address this issue on these forums and been advise that it "is" allowed.

Yet not a single dealer I have have talked to, has agree, If fact, all three have told me to simply pick up the handgun, next visit and simply bring it back into the state. A violation of Federal law

Donny1
06-18-2010, 8:20 AM
If it has been in the family a long time you could bring it here and do the voluntary registration. It would have to be and old gun though, pre 1991.


Not 100% sure about this and still against the law. Of course the law were trying to go around here is illegal anyway.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

Librarian
06-18-2010, 9:03 AM
If it has been in the family a long time you could bring it here and do the voluntary registration. It would have to be and old gun though, pre 1991.


Not 100% sure about this and still against the law. Of course the law were trying to go around here is illegal anyway.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf

Still against the law is the operative phrase.

Doesn't matter how old the handgun is, until it was made in 1899 or earlier.

See the wiki article (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List).

And Bill just posted a nice simple how-to in a different thread; I'll find it in a bit and add it to the Wiki.
// Done - see direct link http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List#A_Brief_.22How_To_Do_It.22_I nterstate.2C_Intrafamily

Donny1
06-18-2010, 9:20 AM
All in all getting what I want is not going to happen at this time. The fact that we even have to think about jumping through hoops like this just to do something that should be legal is ridiculous.

robert101
06-18-2010, 1:08 PM
I'm not in your area as I'm located in S. CA. I was told by my FFL that he could do a out of state transfer (receive a non roster gun) so long as I had a signed document from my father validating our relationship and gifting of the gun to me.

I do no know the law personally. This is only what I was told by a local FFL.

Donny1
06-18-2010, 1:31 PM
I'm not in your area as I'm located in S. CA. I was told by my FFL that he could do a out of state transfer (receive a non roster gun) so long as I had a signed document from my father validating our relationship and gifting of the gun to me.

I do no know the law personally. This is only what I was told by a local FFL.

I am in SoCal. It is ok. The law is clear. The problem is most FFL's are scared to draw attention to themselves. The DOJ makes them feel like they are breaking the law even when their not. If you have one that is willing to do it it then he knows his business and the law. Take advantage of it and do the transfer now before they are all running scared.

My original question was not to ask if it was legal because there is a loophole but more to make sure I don't get bit in the *** later.

DaveFJ80
06-18-2010, 2:37 PM
Are there any red flags if I transfer & DROS 2 non-rostered guns via Intrafamily transfer at the same time (during the same transaction)?

JohnFLand
06-18-2010, 4:48 PM
To the OP: don't you owe your Mom for the money she spent on your education/first car/first home/bail? You could repay her some of that money.

And if, overcome with joy at your unlooked-for recognition of an old debt, she gave you a nice birthday/holiday/home warming gift, that would be excellent of her.

Personally, since my wife hasn't worked outside of the home since we were married, I've paid for every store-bought birthday, anniversary, and holiday gift I've received from her for that last 26 years. Ditto for most of the gifts from my kids to me in that same period. I don't see why the same principle doesn't apply here.

Just make sure you get a letter SIGNED by your mom and specifying the make, model, caliber, and serial number of her gift, with an explicit statement that she is gifting that weapon to you, her son (no other reason need be stated). Your FFL (once you find a knowledgeable and willing one) may also require a photocopy of her driver's license or similar ID for proof of identity.