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View Full Version : Man's report of stolen guns leads to his arrest


My375hp302
06-16-2010, 8:12 PM
This guy could probably use some help...

Another victim of CA's stupid gun laws...

http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/guns-96102-arrested-stolen.html

bodger
06-16-2010, 8:15 PM
That blows. And it wasn't a short barrel from the sounds of it, just an O/A length violation.

stix213
06-16-2010, 8:16 PM
He violated the National Firearms Act, not a CA law I believe.

Bill Carson
06-16-2010, 8:16 PM
is he a victim of the gun laws or his own stupidty

dantodd
06-16-2010, 8:19 PM
Why would CGF help a guy who created an illegal weapon. I think you misunderstand CGF's goals. The man needs a good lawyer or he needs to make some donations to a bunch of local politicians. CGF usually focuses on people who are accused of breaking the law but actually DIDN'T do something illegal.

Can you legally remove a shoulder stock from a shotgun and replace it with a PG only stock, or must a PG only shotgun be mfg'd that way?

Mstrty
06-16-2010, 8:20 PM
This guy could probably use some help...

Another victim of CA's stupid gun laws...

http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/guns-96102-arrested-stolen.html

The law is the law. This is why we educate ourselves.

Stupid law? Yes
Felony? Yes
CGF help ????
Law needs changing? Absolutely!!!
If im on the jury box? Innocent!!!!

stix213
06-16-2010, 8:21 PM
Can you legally remove a shoulder stock from a shotgun and replace it with a PG only stock, of must a PG only shotgun be mfg'd that way?

I am certain you can, as long as you meet the 26" OAL requirement... which I'm considering doing on my Saiga 12, which I got with the long barrel (like 20" barrel or so, obviously I would measure first before doing this)

Shotgun Man
06-16-2010, 8:26 PM
Helps to publish the story so people are more inclined to read it:

Man's report of stolen guns leads to his arrest Comments 10 | Recommend 1 June 16, 2010 04:34:00 PM Appeal-Democrat A Camptonville man who reported his guns had been stolen ended up being arrested for possession of a shotgun about 2 inches too short to be legal, a Yuba County Sheriff's Department official said today. Stephen Clark Davis, 51, of the 13900 block of Moonshine Road, was arrested early Tuesday and was being held in Yuba County Jail on $11,000 bail.

When a deputy arrived, Davis told him several firearms had been stolen from his camper trailer, department spokeswoman Melanie Oakes said. "He went to check for this particular gun, and came out of the trailer to show the deputy that this one was still there. The gun was a .410 shotgun with a pistol grip. The overall length of the gun was 23 ¾ inches, and to be legal it needs to be at least 26 inches long," Oakes said. Davis told the deputy he affixed the pistol grip after buying the gun.

http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/guns-96102-arrested-stolen.html

I previously have decried on this forum that mandatory gun-theft reporting laws such as exists in Los Angeles are unconstitutional as violating one's 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. CA gun laws are a minefield. As much as we all scrupulously follow the law to the best our abilities, who among us would welcome a government audit of our compliance?

Mssr. Eleganté
06-16-2010, 8:27 PM
Poor guy. Living in a trailer on Moonshine Road. Gettin' hassled by both sides of the law. There's a country song in there somewhere.

Shotgun Man
06-16-2010, 8:32 PM
Why would CGF help a guy who created an illegal weapon. I think you misunderstand CGF's goals. The man needs a good lawyer or he needs to make some donations to a bunch of local politicians. CGF usually focuses on people who are accused of breaking the law but actually DIDN'T do something illegal.

Can you legally remove a shoulder stock from a shotgun and replace it with a PG only stock, or must a PG only shotgun be mfg'd that way?

No one said CGF should get involved. The guy needs help-- a true statement of fact. He violated an arbitrary law that serves little to no purpose.

ke6guj
06-16-2010, 8:47 PM
Can you legally remove a shoulder stock from a shotgun and replace it with a PG only stock, yes, you can, provided you still stay above the 26" minimum OAL.

or must a PG only shotgun be mfg'd that way?the only time that matters if is you want to make an AOW out if it by chopping it down into a smoothbore pistol (after an approved Form 1, of course).

Window_Seat
06-16-2010, 9:02 PM
It sure is comforting to know that our justice system is still engaged in a witchhunt of people who live in rural areas of the country for owning firearms. I'm sure that the money he pays will be used to defend a gangbanger who shoots and kills a 5 year old over turf & colors so they can plea bargain for probation. Tom Ammiano and his cronies would be so proud that we live in a state where we are "tough" on guns, and that our children are safe from those evil back woods country cases. We've got to get those radicals with guns.:rolleyes:

Erik.

tonelar
06-16-2010, 9:03 PM
shorter than 26" OAL is violation of Fed law... CA has nothing to do with it. Even with an 18" barrel, a shotgun under 26" over all becomes a SBS.

Shotgun Man
06-16-2010, 9:19 PM
shorter than 26" OAL is violation of Fed law... CA has nothing to do with it. Even with an 18" barrel, a shotgun under 26" over all becomes a SBS.

Well, the guy is being held in county jail, likely charged with state charges. CA outlaws short-barreled shotguns as well.


12020(c):


(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:

(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.

(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.




So I think CA law has something to do with it as he is likely being prosecuted under CA law.

I doubt the feds would get involved in such an inconsequential case.

neuron
06-16-2010, 9:29 PM
Clear violation of PC12020. Barrel length was OK but OAL came up short. Guy admits he changed out the legal stock for a pistol-grip stock that violates the law...His attorney could argue that this was "less" of a violation than "sawing off" the barrel to <18", but it is still an illegal gun. :( Feel free to "disagree" with the laws, but know them and violate them at our own risk.

cmth
06-16-2010, 9:42 PM
I'm glad it was a state cop that arrested him and not the feds, because the feds will kill your wife and kid if they catch you with an SBS.

turbogg
06-16-2010, 10:08 PM
I'll sleep better knowing this criminal has been taken off the streets. Sheesh. What a waste of our tax dollars prosecuting this deliberate law breaker. Sad.

duldej
06-16-2010, 10:10 PM
my experience with the legal system in yuba/sutter was that guns and 2a rights are a forbidden fruit.

i bet he makes out ok over an honest mistake.

zinfull
06-17-2010, 8:22 AM
He now has free health care.

jerry

DDG
06-17-2010, 9:40 AM
There was no reason to show the gun. He screwed up by voluntarily showing it. You can only do so much for stupid people.

Disagree with the law all you want. It is still the law. Don't blame LEO for not ignoring it, like he has to do with the illegal aliens.

Flopper
06-17-2010, 10:27 AM
Disagree with the law all you want. It is still the law. Don't blame LEO for not ignoring it, like he has to do with the illegal aliens.

When a law is broken where no party is injured, why should that law be enforced? What purpose does that serve?

These laws serve only to dominate and oppress, not to protect anyone.

That's called TYRANNY.

winnre
06-17-2010, 10:58 AM
Well, the guy is being held in county jail, likely charged with state charges. CA outlaws short-barreled shotguns as well.


It would be an AOW. I say have him retroactively apply for the $5 tax stamp and permit. Kind of like a fix-it ticket.

Glock22Fan
06-17-2010, 11:19 AM
I'm glad it was a state cop that arrested him and not the feds, because the feds will kill your wife and kid if they catch you with an SBS.

Even though it was a Federal Agent, acting as an agent provocateur, who commissioned the SBS and, in the subsequent court case, it was determined that whether it was a SBS or not was debatable (depending upon how it was actually measured) and he was acquitted.





Ruby Ridge for those of you who are memory challenged.

dreslinger
06-17-2010, 11:26 AM
I can hear the Banjo's playing in the background as I read this.

Window_Seat
06-17-2010, 11:26 AM
When a law is broken where no party is injured, why should that law be enforced? What purpose does that serve?

These laws serve only to dominate and oppress, not to protect anyone.

That's called TYRANNY.

:thumbsup:^^Bingo DING DING, we have a winner!!^^:thumbsup:

Erik.

anthonyca
06-17-2010, 11:29 AM
Poor guy. Living in a trailer on Moonshine Road. Gettin' hassled by both sides of the law. There's a country song in there somewhere.

Lol. Thanks, that was funny.

AJAX22
06-17-2010, 11:34 AM
Don't talk to the police.

Everyone is breaking some law that they never heard of...

EVERYONE


There is really no positive (non neutral) outcome which results from voluntary law enforcement interaction.

Res
06-17-2010, 12:13 PM
Is there a list of pistol grip only shotguns that are under 26" without having the barrel under 18"? I've never seen one before :confused:

AJAX22
06-17-2010, 12:17 PM
Is there a list of pistol grip only shotguns that are under 26" without having the barrel under 18"? I've never seen one before :confused:

Almost all break action shotguns can easily be under 26 with a pistolgrip and an 18 inch barrel.

the same is true with bolt action guns. and a few of the shorter stroke pumps.

gotgunz
06-17-2010, 12:19 PM
my experience with the legal system in yuba/sutter was that guns and 2a rights are a forbidden fruit.


Really? Haven't heard that before. :rolleyes:

You'd think they would frown, rather than smile, while processing my ccw renewals.

Stealth
06-17-2010, 12:22 PM
Funny the person(s) who stole the firearms left the one that was not legal behind.

MaxPower
06-17-2010, 12:26 PM
Poor guy. Living in a trailer on Moonshine Road. Gettin' hassled by both sides of the law. There's a country song in there somewhere.

Ha! I was thinking the same thing. Dukes of Hazzard with Waylon Jennings narrating, "Doesn't look like ol' Stephen Clark Davis is gunna git outta this one..."

johnthomas
06-17-2010, 12:28 PM
Poor guy. Living in a trailer on Moonshine Road. Gettin' hassled by both sides of the law. There's a country song in there somewhere.

Sung to the tune of "the day my momma got out of prison" lol.
"I got home from scrapin tin cans and trash
muh trailer door was swinging when I heard a crash
muh guns was gone and so was muh weed
they even took muh new crop seed.

I called the man and showed him muh gun
now I'ma goin to prison, aint gonna be fun, lol
*************************************
It really does suck for this guy, Ignorance of the law in the eyes of the law is no excuse. He should have said he found the gun in the bushes and was just waiting for one of those guns for wal mart trades.

dfletcher
06-17-2010, 12:35 PM
I guess I'd make a lousy cop. I probably would have said "Heck Elmer (anyone who lives on Moonshine Lane is called Elmer, Flo or Granny) put the dang stock back on that thing and toss the grip in the creek" .....

resident-shooter
06-17-2010, 12:51 PM
I guess I'd make a lousy cop. I probably would have said "Heck Elmer (anyone who lives on Moonshine Lane is called Elmer, Flo or Granny) put the dang stock back on that thing and toss the grip in the creek" .....

Well you would not be making much without prosecuting people for some senseless laws and harassing the generally law abiding public rather than real criminals who might shoot back at you. That is for sure. :rolleyes:

EscapeFromCal
06-17-2010, 3:03 PM
Let's not forget. There are a lot of great law enforcement officers out there. They to are under the same oppression and destruction of freedoms that come from baseless and predatory lawsuits, as well as the video and audio surveillance in their units. It seems to me that due to advancements in technology we all are loosing our freedoms at an alarming rate.

Flopper
06-17-2010, 3:34 PM
There are a lot of great law enforcement officers out there. They to are under the same oppression and destruction of freedoms that come from baseless and predatory lawsuits, as well as the video and audio surveillance in their units.

What oppression or destruction of freedoms would those be?

They're so oppressed that they can:
1. Buy any handgun they like--even the "unsafe" ones.
2. Buy high cap magazines.
3. Own "assault weapons" for personal use.
4. CCW

I support police, but I'm sick and tired of the special treatment and para-militarization.

I don't like when LEO's and LEA's violate human rights and people defend those practices because they "have a tough job."

Police should be held to a HIGHER standard than other CIVILIANS. Those who are too stressed to abide by the Constitution should GTFO.

And I have absolutely no problem with surveillance in police units. Those recording devices tend to help GOOD officers and hurt BAD officers.

EscapeFromCal
06-17-2010, 4:18 PM
Flopper, just saying lawsuits and constant surveillance have led to negative consequences for everyone. I don't see this man's arrest really being the direct result of the officers action. Most departments don't allow officers to give people rides (driver has run out of gas or intoxicated) just because of the lawsuits that have occurred in the past. In this incident, the officer once presented with the illegal weapon, had to consider if the department/officer could be sued later for ignoring this fact (man goes out and shoots thief with said shotgun later that day). Do I like it, no. What I don't like is the systematic destruction of our personal liberties because of this nanny state mentality with no regard to common sense. The mentality of these type of lawsuits are those of extremist liberals that steal our freedoms daily.

As for the surveillance in the cars I agree it keeps everybody honest. It also makes for little option for the officer to use his/her discretion once the gun is brought out into view. I don't know if this happened in this case, just saying it could influence an officers decision to arrest.

SteveH
06-17-2010, 5:18 PM
I wanna see the rap sheet for Mr Stephen Clark Davis. Sounds like he "lives in a van, down by the river" as the SNL skit goes.

resident-shooter
06-17-2010, 5:55 PM
I agree with flopper, "cutting a slack" to LEO's on so many levels, first of all the gun rights, for having a tough job is just unfair. The whole legal system is set up in many ways so that they can cite you and there is nothing you can do because the judge will be like "well, officer knows better", simply because they judge needs a salary out of your pocket.

How about firefighters? Truck drivers? They got tough and dangerous jobs too.

Pyrodyne
06-17-2010, 10:51 PM
Flopper, just saying lawsuits and constant surveillance have led to negative consequences for everyone. I don't see this man's arrest really being the direct result of the officers action. Most departments don't allow officers to give people rides (driver has run out of gas or intoxicated) just because of the lawsuits that have occurred in the past. In this incident, the officer once presented with the illegal weapon, had to consider if the department/officer could be sued later for ignoring this fact (man goes out and shoots thief with said shotgun later that day). Do I like it, no. What I don't like is the systematic destruction of our personal liberties because of this nanny state mentality with no regard to common sense. The mentality of these type of lawsuits are those of extremist liberals that steal our freedoms daily.

As for the surveillance in the cars I agree it keeps everybody honest. It also makes for little option for the officer to use his/her discretion once the gun is brought out into view. I don't know if this happened in this case, just saying it could influence an officers decision to arrest.

Come to think of it, since the officers always have the big brother eyes and ears on their patrol units, and humans being creatures of habit, won't they get into the habit of not exercising discretion as their career continues? Say perhaps a rookie might let someone off the hook with a warning for minor silly things, but perhaps they are conditioned over time to push more citations from the higher brass?

Of course after years of hearing the same excuses it's easy to get jaded as well, so this might be a factor to consider. I'm really curious about the effects the on-board surveillance has on officer's decisions. I'm sure it changes by district too.

3B830
06-17-2010, 11:58 PM
Moonshine and SBS - if his name had been Miller he could have ridden this up to SCOTUS for a rematch!

gorblimey
06-18-2010, 12:17 AM
When a law is broken where no party is injured, why should that law be enforced? What purpose does that serve?

These laws serve only to dominate and oppress, not to protect anyone.

That's called TYRANNY.


You are full of intriguing questions, Mr. Flopper. Fortunately, the thick basement walls of the People's Militsiya will muffle your surprised response on learning the answers.

Jpach
06-18-2010, 12:24 AM
I'm glad it was a state cop that arrested him and not the feds, because the feds will kill your wife and kid if they catch you with an SBS.

LOL


Sucks for this guy. Yeah, the law is the law but the LAW SUCKS!

Im preaching to the quire though, obviously.

Bugei
06-18-2010, 7:20 AM
shorter than 26" OAL is violation of Fed law... CA has nothing to do with it. Even with an 18" barrel, a shotgun under 26" over all becomes a SBS.

Sure, but that just says that the Federal law is unconstitutional, too, not just the California law.

Flopper
06-18-2010, 10:52 AM
In this incident, the officer once presented with the illegal weapon, had to consider if the department/officer could be sued later for ignoring this fact (man goes out and shoots thief with said shotgun later that day).

This is not an issue:

http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html

EscapeFromCal
06-18-2010, 3:14 PM
Flopper, I found that article interesting and it does seem to be that after looking on the internet, many of these type of lawsuits are lost once brought to court for the reasons pointed out in your post. Here is another example:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1N1-0EB1EE139227BA1A.html

This other article also sheds some additional light on further guidelines in another state:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1N1-0EB1EE139227BA1A.html

What prompted me to write what I have, is that I have seen many articles over the years where departments and officers have been sued for not arresting a person. I imagine this still cost money, time, and energy to address and therefore is still best avoided.

I suspect my opinions would be closer to yours prior to meeting many law enforcement officers through my job (motorcycle mechanic), and spending a few nights out on ride a longs where I have seen kind and considerate people who take there job seriously to serve and protect. I live in a smaller community so this may differ in the "big city". I wouldn't know, as large cities are just places I drive through if I have to.