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Guntech
06-16-2010, 1:11 PM
I was buying a gun at the gunshop this week and they asked me if I had a safe and what kind it is, I even had to write it on the form. Do they have to ask this now or are they just being nosey? Is there a new law I don't know about requiring guns to be kept in safes?

Casual_Shooter
06-16-2010, 1:13 PM
Don't think it's new. They asked me a while back. I think it was either you sign the form to document you have a gun safe or you have to buy a gun lock.

Guntech
06-16-2010, 1:17 PM
Oh ok, The gun locks used to be free what happened lol :). First gun purchase of this year. Transfer fees have gone up too lol.

bjl333
06-16-2010, 1:28 PM
Oh ok, The gun locks used to be free what happened lol :). First gun purchase of this year. Transfer fees have gone up too lol.


Some companies will include a gun lock with their gun. If they don't you gotta have a gunlock purchase receipt dated the same day as your pickup date.

Guntech
06-16-2010, 1:53 PM
Thats strange I thought the law said you only had to have the guns locked if children could gain access to them. No children in my house and a locked gun wouldn't do me much good in an emergency would it....gun laws lol:D

CSDGuy
06-16-2010, 2:00 PM
Unless the BATFE has promulgated regulations as to exactly what suffices for the "safe affadavit", the affadavit no longer works. You gotta have a lock, purchased within the past 30 days... It doesn't mean that you have to actually USE the lock or that you can't return it after getting home with your new firearm...

As to requiring a safe... nope.

ke6guj
06-16-2010, 2:01 PM
Thats strange I thought the law said you only had to have the guns locked if children could gain access to them. No children in my house and a locked gun wouldn't do me much good in an emergency would it....gun laws lol:Dthe "must be locked if children are present" law has nothing to do with the fact that CA law requires all firearm, handguns and long guns, be delivered with a handgun lock (or that the buyer sign a form stating that they have an acceptable gun safe). Been that way for years.

In addition to the CA law about gun locks for handguns and long guns, the feds have their own handgun saftey lock law in which the buyer must be provided with a handgun lock (and the CA safe affidavit is not acceptable to the feds).

powderedtoastman
06-16-2010, 2:03 PM
Not sure if this is everywhere or even true, but a worker at the local gun shop said you can get a free lock with a stamped/dated receipt from your local PD or Sheriff's office. Can anybody confirm this?

lugar
06-16-2010, 2:14 PM
I went with a lockable ammo box and a padlock to pick up my latest treasure and the guy at The Gun Room said okay if I could show a receipt for the lock showing that I purchased it within the last 30 days. I didn't. Had to buy a stupid $18 lock from them. Didn't even have to put it on the gun, just had to pay for it.

fishhoppa
06-16-2010, 3:50 PM
Not sure if this is everywhere or even true, but a worker at the local gun shop said you can get a free lock with a stamped/dated receipt from your local PD or Sheriff's office. Can anybody confirm this?

Confirmed. I got an extra lock from my local PD for free - have it in my car's storage box. Both of my gun purchases came with a lock in the case.

fishhoppa
06-16-2010, 3:53 PM
I went with a lockable ammo box and a padlock to pick up my latest treasure and the guy at The Gun Room said okay if I could show a receipt for the lock showing that I purchased it within the last 30 days. I didn't. Had to buy a stupid $18 lock from them. Didn't even have to put it on the gun, just had to pay for it.


$18 ?!?!:eek: Those cable gun locks should only cost ~$6 at a gun shop. Hope you returned it the next day.

Scratch705
06-16-2010, 4:00 PM
this doesn't apply to handguns sold with locks included right?

Knight_Who_Says_Ni
06-16-2010, 4:16 PM
this doesn't apply to handguns sold with locks included right?

Nope, I believe they just have to certify that you have a lock for the gun at the time of purchase.

Cyc Wid It
06-16-2010, 4:50 PM
The receipt thing is there so you don't just recycle the same lock over and over again. Best bet is to goto Big 5, pick up your gun and then return the lock.

stix213
06-16-2010, 4:55 PM
Some companies will include a gun lock with their gun. If they don't you gotta have a gunlock purchase receipt dated the same day as your pickup date.

This ^^^^^^^^ except I believe the receipt needs to be within 30 days instead of same day I believe.

stix213
06-16-2010, 4:56 PM
Nope, I believe they just have to certify that you have a lock for the gun at the time of purchase.

No, they won't let you if you just have a lock cause they will assume that is for a different gun

Wherryj
06-16-2010, 5:29 PM
I went with a lockable ammo box and a padlock to pick up my latest treasure and the guy at The Gun Room said okay if I could show a receipt for the lock showing that I purchased it within the last 30 days. I didn't. Had to buy a stupid $18 lock from them. Didn't even have to put it on the gun, just had to pay for it.

I guess that they wanted to assure that the lock wasn't from another weapon. After all, the feds/CA realise that a gun without a lock might be more dangerous. It really hurts to fire the things with a lock in place. I'm surprised that they allow the locks to be removable. (I joke, but I wouldn't be surprised in CA was working on such legislation.)

Dhena81
06-16-2010, 5:35 PM
I just bought a handgun and two rifles and they asked me if I had a safe also. The reason being that if you buy a rifle you don't need to buy a lock if you own a safe but with a handgun you still need to buy a lock no matter what.

Milsurps
06-16-2010, 5:42 PM
The receipt thing is there so you don't just recycle the same lock over and over again. Best bet is to goto Big 5, pick up your gun and then return the lock.

GF bought A 91/30 from Big 5 last week. They took the lock receipt from her so it couldn't be returned. So much for recycling them. :mad:

norcal.xd
06-16-2010, 5:45 PM
if you buy a safe i think you need to keep the receipt or a copy of it to show proof of the safe so you dont have to buy the lock........ or they will still make you buy one......(i heard this from a local gun store)

paul0660
06-16-2010, 5:53 PM
Go back to post #7. It is absofrigginlutely correct, as usual.

taloft
06-16-2010, 6:08 PM
if you buy a safe i think you need to keep the receipt or a copy of it to show proof of the safe so you dont have to buy the lock........ or they will still make you buy one......(i heard this from a local gun store)They're telling you complete BS. The safe affidavit has an area for you to initial if you don't have a reciept with you. You only have to know the make and model number. Check for yourself, right smack in the middle of the page in it's own box. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/gsaff.pdf

Nick1236
06-16-2010, 6:41 PM
Some companies will include a gun lock with their gun. If they don't you gotta have a gunlock purchase receipt dated the same day as your pickup date.

actually you just need a receipt dated WITHIN 30 days.

JPurp
06-16-2010, 8:25 PM
California AB 106 went into effect Jan 1, 2002. It requires a "certified safety device" (aka locks) be sold with each firearm purchase or proof of purchase of one within the last 30 days. An affidavit can be completed if you own a "certified safety device" (aka safe) for long guns only.

This affidavit does NOT apply to handguns as the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" amendment makes locks a federal requirement for all handguns. This federal law, Public Law 109-92, was signed into effect 10/26/05.

If anyone is bored here are all the links.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0104.pdf
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0107.pdf
http://www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms/fsdcertlist.htm
http://ftp.resource.org/gpo.gov/laws/109/publ092.109.pdf

Plisk
06-16-2010, 8:48 PM
^^

You're right JPurp.

Basically here's what you need to know if you need to buy a lock or not.

New Pistol Dealer Transfer with factory lock = Nope
New Rifle Dealer Transfer with factory lock = Nope
New Rifle Dealer Transfer or PPT (FTF) rifle without lock = Affidavit for safe, or purchase lock
PPT (FTF) Handgun = Need to purchase lock or show receipt for one within 30 days.

Safes do not apply to handguns anymore thanks to ATF.

Even if you walk in to do a PPT for a handgun and it has a sealed brand new factory cable lock with it, it doesn't matter you have to buy one. Even if you bring in a new unopened CA approved cable lock with you. It does not work, the State/ATF wants receipts to go with everything. It's a totally BS rule I know, I deal with it everyday. But it's the world state we live in.

Welcome to California!

RedDawn
06-16-2010, 9:28 PM
GF bought A 91/30 from Big 5 last week. They took the lock receipt from her so it couldn't be returned. So much for recycling them. :mad:

If you buy the gunlock from Walmart and use a credit card, you wouldn't need a receipt to return the gunlock. Walmart's system can automatically retrieve the sales information from your credit card. At least, that's how it works at the Walmarts around here.

ke6guj
06-16-2010, 9:30 PM
Even if you walk in to do a PPT for a handgun and it has a sealed brand new factory cable lock with it, it doesn't matter you have to buy one. Even if you bring in a new unopened CA approved cable lock with you. It does not work, the State/ATF wants receipts to go with everything. It's a totally BS rule I know, I deal with it everyday. But it's the world state we live in.

Welcome to California!just have the seller provide you with a receipt.

Why can Kimber provide me, the buyer, with a lock when I buy a 1911 and the clerk just notes that it came with a lock, but if I sell that same Kimber (and lock) to my friend in a PPT, that I can't provide him with that same lock?

Rob454
06-16-2010, 9:30 PM
just do what everyone does. Go buy a gun lock at walmart and bring it in. then take it back.

Librarian
06-16-2010, 9:34 PM
California AB 106 went into effect Jan 1, 2002. It requires a "certified safety device" (aka locks) be sold with each firearm purchase or proof of purchase of one within the last 30 days. An affidavit can be completed if you own a "certified safety device" (aka safe) for long guns only.

This affidavit does NOT apply to handguns as the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" amendment makes locks a federal requirement for all handguns. This federal law, Public Law 109-92, was signed into effect 10/26/05.

If anyone is bored here are all the links.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0104.pdf
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0107.pdf
http://www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms/fsdcertlist.htm
http://ftp.resource.org/gpo.gov/laws/109/publ092.109.pdf

Almost perfect, except for this bit: "makes locks a federal requirement for all handguns."

It's not a lock (only) that is mandated - it's "a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun."

921 (a)(34) says
"(34) The term “secure gun storage or safety device” means—
(A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to
prevent the firearm from being operated without first
deactivating the device;
(B) a device incorporated into the design of the firearm that is
designed to prevent the operation of the firearm by anyone not
having access to the device; or
(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device
that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and
that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a
combination, or other similar means."

See the CGF Wiki article (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws).

Joe
06-16-2010, 9:36 PM
I just buy a lock from big 5 and return it after. I've done this about 5 times now.

E-120
06-16-2010, 9:42 PM
I bought a lock today and on the way to the parking lot I decided I did not want it any more. Gun is safely in the safe. Lock is safe in the store.

Plisk
06-16-2010, 9:48 PM
just have the seller provide you with a receipt.

Why can Kimber provide me, the buyer, with a lock when I buy a 1911 and the clerk just notes that it came with a lock, but if I sell that same Kimber (and lock) to my friend in a PPT, that I can't provide him with that same lock?

Because it's California.

You can give him the lock, but it's a matter if the seller can make up a semi-official looking receipt to attach to the paperwork. If you can great, I've never seen anyone actually do it though.

ke6guj
06-16-2010, 10:06 PM
Because it's California.


really?

12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device. If I hand you, the FFL, a handgun with an appoved FSD, to transfer to the PPT buyer, hasn't 12088.1(a) been complied with? Sure looks that way to me. No FSD lock receipt is required for you to transfer that Kimber that comes with an FSD when it comes from a FFL. How is it any different when it come from an PPT seller. Both are covered under the same exemption.

You can give him the lock, but it's a matter if the seller can make up a semi-official looking receipt to attach to the paperwork. If you can great, I've never seen anyone actually do it though.if you won't let it go under 12088.1(a) then we have to use 12088.1(e.

12088.1(e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.
why does it have to be official looking? Can't I just scratch out the info on the back of a piece of paper saying that I sold him a lock on today's date?

as long as the receipt complies with the above, that should be all the buyer need.

Plisk
06-16-2010, 10:26 PM
What I meant by semi-official looking is something more than a napkin with "I R SELLZ HIM LOCK" written on it. I meant a piece of paper with dates, names, etc. I don't mean an actual carbon paper copy like a store receipt.

This part of the penal code about using the original buyers receipt when that said buyer is becoming the seller is interesting. I'll have to get our manager to read this over. Maybe there's the ability for a policy change at the shop for locks.

manuelcardenas77
06-16-2010, 11:29 PM
I just go down to my local police department and ask for handgun locks, last time I went a got a few. They were free.

DDG
06-17-2010, 10:12 AM
To add to the confusion, some stores will make you buy their lock regardless of what you have, not only from a profit motive, but they want to make sure they are covered in case something goes wrong. They do not want to be in the position of having to interpret any laws/regs.

For planning purposes, if a handgun, count on buying a lock when you pick it up if one does not come with it. Some stores are nervous about accepting a receipt even if dated that day. I always ask when selecting the gun what their policy is. It's part of the buying decision. I don’t get upset. It is just one of the factors that enter into the decision of where to buy from.

Fortunately, my Ruger and Beretta came with locks so I didn't have to worry. I actually use the locks when transporting them.

testosteroneOD
06-17-2010, 11:00 AM
So to clarify, I have a brand new in box pistol that I want to sell PPT..It comes with a lock as a brand new pistol does. The party buying the pistol needs to buy an EXTRA lock? ^^

You're right JPurp.

Basically here's what you need to know if you need to buy a lock or not.

New Pistol Dealer Transfer with factory lock = Nope
New Rifle Dealer Transfer with factory lock = Nope
New Rifle Dealer Transfer or PPT (FTF) rifle without lock = Affidavit for safe, or purchase lock
PPT (FTF) Handgun = Need to purchase lock or show receipt for one within 30 days.

Safes do not apply to handguns anymore thanks to ATF.

Even if you walk in to do a PPT for a handgun and it has a sealed brand new factory cable lock with it, it doesn't matter you have to buy one. Even if you bring in a new unopened CA approved cable lock with you. It does not work, the State/ATF wants receipts to go with everything. It's a totally BS rule I know, I deal with it everyday. But it's the world state we live in.

Welcome to California!

RedDawn
06-17-2010, 6:29 PM
So to clarify, I have a brand new in box pistol that I want to sell PPT..It comes with a lock as a brand new pistol does. The party buying the pistol needs to buy an EXTRA lock?

Short answer, yes.
The buying party must either prove, with a receipt, they bought the lock within 30 days of handgun purchase/transfer or buy a lock from the store.

Plisk
06-17-2010, 9:41 PM
So to clarify, I have a brand new in box pistol that I want to sell PPT..It comes with a lock as a brand new pistol does. The party buying the pistol needs to buy an EXTRA lock?

Yes. Unless you can somehow provide the buyer with a receipt for said lock BEFORE you PPT it, or before the buyer picks up the handgun after his 10 days.

Bill Jackson
06-20-2010, 3:01 PM
I was buying a gun at the gunshop this week and they asked me if I had a safe and what kind it is, I even had to write it on the form. Do they have to ask this now or are they just being nosey? Is there a new law I don't know about requiring guns to be kept in safes?

GunTech,

You weren't, by any chance, in VacaVile when this happened, were you?

I was on the receiving end of a PPT in a shop there last year, and on pickup day, the owner was insistent that I sign a safe affidavit, even though they were giving me a new lock with the firearm.

At the time, I didn't have a safe, and I really wasn't interested in perjuring myself on any official documents.

He was adamant, though, and told me that a safe affidavit was required with every transfer, saying, "Everyone fills one out, it's a requirement." When I told him I didn't have a safe, and I was pretty sure that quite a few of his customers didn't either, he said, "That's OK, just fill it out anyway, it's no big deal." :confused:

I asked him if he really believed that people were required to own a safe in order to buy firearms in California, and he agreed that it wasn't the case, but he still wouldn't budge. I explained that the safe affidavit was so that safe owners wouldn't have to keep buying unnecessary locks, but he kept saying that he didn't have a choice, because the form was required with every transfer. I guess he was so engorged with FUD he wasn't going to take any chances.

It was to the point where I was going to walk, when he told me that he could show me a website which would verify the requirement, so I took him up on the offer. Once the actual regs were in front of us, it only took about 5 minutes of stepping through the language with him to change his mind. Well, I'm not sure it really changed his mind, but it was changed enough for him to let me out of the store with my stuff.

Kyle1886
06-20-2010, 4:09 PM
-----------------

fusionstar
06-20-2010, 4:20 PM
$18 ?!?!:eek: Those cable gun locks should only cost ~$6 at a gun shop. Hope you returned it the next day.

Even with their 20% off sale. Their stuff still cost more than retail. Suprising isnt it?

I think they been going to the walmart nearby and buying all the handgun ammo and re-selling it.

Walmart 250 UMC 40 180gr $69.95.. The Gun Room.. $113.95

Reloader-15 sportsman warehouse $25-$28 The Gun Room $39

Malthusian
06-20-2010, 4:32 PM
Go back to post #7. It is absofrigginlutely correct, as usual.

I absofrigginlutely, agree but I saw nothing around post #7 about this

Carry your receipt for your Fort Knox safe in your wallet and your good to go

aadwwt
07-05-2010, 10:17 AM
yes either a safe or buy a lock/if it`s a new gun it comes with a lock