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View Full Version : "Las Vegas Gun Store": enforcing CA laws?


TrailerparkTrash
03-31-2006, 1:36 AM
I'll keep this brief, but it's worth reading. It'll piss you off:

Two weeks ago I was in the "Las Vegas Gun Store" (the one that advertises machine gun rentals at around 30 rounds for $40.00!)

Anyway, I was at the counter when a customer walked in and asked to buy some hi cap M1A magazines. The clerk told the customer they had them in stock, but that he needed to see the customer's I.D. The customer showed the guy his CA I.D or Driver's license and the clerk became an instantaneous loud, arrogant smart *****.

The clerk spoke very loud (I'm guessing in order to impress his co-workers and to gain the attention of every customer in the store) and told the poor guy that it was "illegal" for the CALIFORNINA resident to buy hi caps.

The customer wasn't satisfied with that simple answer so he asked the "gun store lawyer": Since when is it illegal for a person in Nevada to purchase a hicap magazine? The clerk said, "The California DOJ says it's illegal for us to sell them to CA residents."

WHAT????????? (That's what the customer said too!). The customer said something to the effect of, "Since when does the long arm of the CA DOJ stretch across stateline and enforce their laws in NV?"

The customer kept going very politely and told the clerk that the CA penal code does not prohibit a CA resident from conducting business OUTSIDE of CA. The resident said he knew it was illegal for him to transport the magazines back into CA, but he planed on keeping them out of CA.

Well, the clerk then said, that CA DOJ will sue the NV gun store if they sell to residents of CA. Since when can the CA DOJ sue another business in another state for conducting a LEGAL business in his own state (NV)????

So basically, it kind of came out that it's not that CA DOJ has NO jurisdiction outside of their borders, but I believe it was the Las Vegas Gun Store that just has a store policy not to sell to CA residents!

Man, tyranny, socialisim, dictatorships are well and alive in CA. The CA DOJ now has honest companies doing business in other states running completely scared.

I believe that the Las Vegas Gun Store is also weak and worthless. The gun store selling a legal product in their state can't be responsible for the illegal use of their product. If that were the case, then gun manufacturing companies would be loosing the past frivilous law suits they've been getting hit with over the years. Heck, beer companies would have stopped selling beer and alcohol years ago because a drunk driver used their product.

Get what I'm saying?

Bottom line, Las Vegas Gun Store is weak, scared and has a rotten store policy. Does anyone here know of a law in CA or NV that says, "when a CA customer is physically in NV, buying a legal product in NV, don't sell to him?"

I sure don't and I'd love for anyone to find that law. Yeah, if it's transported back to CA, it would be illegal. That's not the issue here on my thread.
Thanks.

natrab
03-31-2006, 1:43 AM
I wonder about this as well. I'm going to be doing a 3 month long internship in Austin, TX, and of course I'm bringing my guns. I'm also going to want to get ahold of some 30 round mags to use while I'm in a free state. I figure I could just buy a couple and sell them before I leave, but I'm guessing as soon as they see my CA ID they'll say no way.

I guess I'll just have to find someone from THR or arf.com to shoot with and let me use their mags ;)

grammaton76
03-31-2006, 1:56 AM
I wonder about this as well. I'm going to be doing a 3 month long internship in Austin, TX, and of course I'm bringing my guns. I'm also going to want to get ahold of some 30 round mags to use while I'm in a free state. I figure I could just buy a couple and sell them before I leave, but I'm guessing as soon as they see my CA ID they'll say no way.

I guess I'll just have to find someone from THR or arf.com to shoot with and let me use their mags ;)

1. Don't look like a Californian.
2. Pay with cash, they don't have to see your ID.

Very simple. One problem with Californians, is we start getting this idea to use plastic for everything. Of course that's going to result in your ID getting noticed! :)

What you do is between you and God, and the DOJ only gets involved if you happen to do something silly and get caught. You've got every legitimate reason to enjoy free-state configuration for the duration of your internship, regardless of some lame store policy.

EBWhite
03-31-2006, 1:58 AM
There is no reason to ask for an ID in the first place. Say, sorry i dont have it on me. If they wont sell it go somewhere else and do not visit their store anymore. There is no laws against buying a normal cap mag out of state

accordingtoome
03-31-2006, 3:01 AM
WTF.. it is illegal for a NEVADA store owner to to sell that stuff to you if your from cali and he KNOWS your from cali. I dunno why they would ask for ID though. Maybe its a new law. But if they know your from cali then your not gonna buy jack. Maybe someone saw that he had out of state plates and told the clerk.

Mr331
03-31-2006, 5:48 AM
WTF.. it is illegal for a NEVADA store owner to to sell that stuff to you if your from cali and he KNOWS your from cali. I dunno why they would ask for ID though. Maybe its a new law. But if they know your from cali then your not gonna buy jack. Maybe someone saw that he had out of state plates and told the clerk.


No it's not. It's only illegal if you, the Californian, bring the hi-caps back into California. The law is manufacturing, selling, trading, and importing with in California.

tenpercentfirearms
03-31-2006, 5:53 AM
I as a gun store owner can choose not to sell products to people. If I were in Nevada, I would probably choose not to sell hi-capacity magazines to California residents because of the possible ramifications of my own local law enforcement and state government in their attemps to cooperate with the California DOJ. If you go to Nevada gun shops in order to break the law, that just isn't bright. Sure it might be LEGAL, but is it wise? Don't blame free state business for not wanting to even appear to be helping other people break the law. It is our state who made the screwed up laws, get mad at them and try to change it, not out of state dealers who are trying to stay out of trouble.

vcsardiver
03-31-2006, 6:54 AM
Does anyone know if its legal in this repressive state to put on a new upper with a bayonet lug and flash supressor (pre ban) if your AR is already registered with the DOJ? How about a LMT SOPMOD stock? It would seem that it's already registered as an "assault rifle" so the "no no" list would not apply? It's all very confusing.

6172crew
03-31-2006, 6:58 AM
There is no law against buying magazines outside the state. You just cant import them into CA. I buy all kinds of magazines in NV and they get left at my buddies place in Carson.;)

glen avon
03-31-2006, 7:00 AM
wes, how DARE you protect your business at the expense of my sense of self-righteousness.

if *I* want to tiptoe around the technical edges of a law, you should have to cooperate.

halifax
03-31-2006, 7:02 AM
I as a gun store owner can choose not to sell products to people. If I were in Nevada, I would probably choose not to sell hi-capacity magazines to California residents because of the possible ramifications of my own local law enforcement and state government in their attemps to cooperate with the California DOJ. If you go to Nevada gun shops in order to break the law, that just isn't bright. Sure it might be LEGAL, but is it wise? Don't blame free state business for not wanting to even appear to be helping other people break the law. It is our state who made the screwed up laws, get mad at them and try to change it, not out of state dealers who are trying to stay out of trouble.

Why would you even ask for ID? It's not required.

glen avon
03-31-2006, 7:03 AM
I wonder about this as well. I'm going to be doing a 3 month long internship in Austin, TX, and of course I'm bringing my guns. ...

Had the guy in the original post showed he was going to be in NV for a 3-mo. internship, the outcome might have been different. you have a valid reason for buying - you will be there a while. the original situation, just blowing thru vegas like everybody else from CA, well, why do they want a hicap if it's not to bring home?

glen avon
03-31-2006, 7:11 AM
...The customer kept going very politely and told the clerk that the CA penal code does not prohibit a CA resident from conducting business OUTSIDE of CA. The resident said he knew it was illegal for him to transport the magazines back into CA, but he planed on keeping them out of CA....Does anyone here know of a law in CA or NV that says, "when a CA customer is physically in NV, buying a legal product in NV, don't sell to him?"...

I suppose a conspiracy charge could float. jurisdiction may or may not be a problem, we don't know what ties The Gun Store has in CA.

don't be mad at them for not picking up your cause. they are not in the middle of a small town in Iowa, far from CA. They are a town full of tourists who only stay a short time and go home, and they are right next to CA. It is entirely reasonable to believe the buyer will return home with the mags and not leave them behind. where will he leave them? with a friend? have the friend buy them. In a safe deposit box? show them the key.

Mute
03-31-2006, 7:16 AM
They have a right to do business the way they want and you have a right to not do business with them because of their policies. However, I think it is kind of idiotic. I own a house in Vegas that I occasionally use. If I want to buy mags and keep them there, I have to bring copies of my mortgage and utility bills just so I can buy a normal capacity magazine? Any store that would put me through that kind of inconvenience isn't getting my business.

QuickOnTheDraw
03-31-2006, 7:25 AM
Does anyone know if its legal in this repressive state to put on a new upper with a bayonet lug and flash supressor (pre ban) if your AR is already registered with the DOJ? How about a LMT SOPMOD stock? It would seem that it's already registered as an "assault rifle" so the "no no" list would not apply? It's all very confusing.

WTF, why are you derailing this thread? what does this have to do with the original thread?Ask this question in the right place and you might get some answers.

tenpercentfirearms
03-31-2006, 7:30 AM
They have a right to do business the way they want and you have a right to not do business with them because of their policies.And there you have it. Vote with your pocket book. However, I don't think they are that worried about losing the revenue of shady California magazine sales, hence their policy in the first place.

JAMES77257
03-31-2006, 7:39 AM
Machine Gun Kelly's on Sunset.

phobos512
03-31-2006, 7:42 AM
Is this "The Gun Store" on Tropicana, the one that has the ads all over to come shoot machine guns? 2 of my coworkers and I went there end of 2004 and shot an MP5, it was pretty cool. UNTIL that is, they found out where we were from. Then they treated us like jerks, offered to sell us the orange tipped toy guns from the wall, etc. I was less than amused, and while the shotting machine guns is hard to resist when I return there, I'm not sure I'd go back.

FreedomIsNotFree
03-31-2006, 7:54 AM
I had a similar run in with the folks at the Gun Store there in Nevada. Probably the same jerk....

If they dont want to sell to CA residents that is fine....their right to sell or not to sell....the point that pisses me off is their attitude. A simple.."Sorry, store policy is to NOT sell hi-cap mags to CA residents" would have been fine.....the posturing and bad attitude is not warranted.

From time to time I run into jerks at Gun Shops that treat you as if you are lucky to be in their store....Like they are the only action in town....When I run into attitudes like that I simply turn around and walk out......spend your money with folks that appreciate your business....this applies to all arenas.....not just gun shops.

Tommy_J_Trainer
03-31-2006, 7:57 AM
That's a travesty; however, can you blame the gun store? Unless someone is going to pay that store owner's legal bills I wouldn't do it if I were him either. The DOJ can go into litigation for a couple of years and use our tax dollars to pay the legal fees. This poor schmoe will probably lose his business just trying to defend himself from the Commiefornia lawyers. It would be nice to have someone on our side, but I guess all we have is each other. I hope we all remember this next time we vote. Just remember to vote for the least-worst canditate.

PistolKidd
03-31-2006, 8:02 AM
I as a gun store owner can choose not to sell products to people. If I were in Nevada, I would probably choose not to sell hi-capacity magazines to California residents because of the possible ramifications of my own local law enforcement and state government in their attemps to cooperate with the California DOJ. If you go to Nevada gun shops in order to break the law, that just isn't bright. Sure it might be LEGAL, but is it wise? Don't blame free state business for not wanting to even appear to be helping other people break the law. It is our state who made the screwed up laws, get mad at them and try to change it, not out of state dealers who are trying to stay out of trouble.

hehe... i was thinking the same thing.

Business owners in NV, however dim or ignorant, can choose to do conduct business in this matter. I understand the frustration at not being allowed to buy those magazines, but at the same time, If I see, as a business owner, that you're going to blatantly break the law, I might think twice about conducting the transaction- and I'd be well within my right to.

Bushmaster is one of the big companies that does this. Any barrel less than 16 inches requires you to send in your SBR form thingie.. If you dont send them a copy of the form, it simply becomes, "what permanently attached brake/flash suppressor would you like pinned and welded to your barrel sir??" before they'll ship it out to you..

I dont hate them for it, but at the same time, if they're going to be cavalier about it, then I'll take my business elsewhere.. as well should you..

I'll completely agree that the NV Gun Store showed SPINELESS, WEAK, IDIOTIC character by citing claims of fear that DOJ agents would come int he middle of the night and kick down their doors.. but at the same time, it's within their right to do those things... like ask you for your ID.. they cant legally force this, but if you dont, they would be within their legal rights to not sell you jack*****.. just their policy..it may be stupid, based on fear and ignorance.. but at the same time, can you blame them for not wanting to assist in your law breaking?

if the story were as someone pointed out, more "acceptable"..ie.. "im moving here for a few months, im a student for hte summer"..etc etc..then maybe there'd be less hesitancy.. but as is.. how dumb do you think the guy behind the counter is?? do you think that whenever a California resident buys an unstamped/unmarked high capacity magazine, they're going to just "leave" it outside of CA..? Im sure this isnt the first guy to suddenly come in and buy like 10 M1a, 16 AR-15, 6 sig sauer, 6 glock, 8 HK high capacity magazines..

Doenst take a genius to realize that you're probably not gonna be leaving those things behind...

FreedomIsNotFree
03-31-2006, 8:06 AM
I think this whole matter is trivial to be honest.....if someone desires to bring hi cap mags into CA from NV it is not hard. I mean, is it that hard to find some bum on the street to buy them for your if that was your goal? I think not.

I for one, would never think of bringing pre-ban, non date stamped hi cap mags into CA from NV. Never!!!

DigglerD
03-31-2006, 8:28 AM
hehe... i was thinking the same thing.

Business owners in NV, however dim or ignorant, can choose to do conduct business in this matter. I understand the frustration at not being allowed to buy those magazines, but at the same time, If I see, as a business owner, that you're going to blatantly break the law, I might think twice about conducting the transaction- and I'd be well within my right to.

7-11's tend not to sell eggs to minors in the evening hours. It's the same thing. The only thing on the books in terms of having to sell to all customers alike pertain to the combination of interstate commerce and race.

FreedomIsNotFree
03-31-2006, 8:33 AM
Screw the Gun Store on Tropicana.....

I wouldn't do business with them if I lived next door. Their arrogant attitude alone requires this.

donger
03-31-2006, 8:50 AM
The Gun Stores MP5 is a piece of crap. I don't know how many rounds have been through that thing but it kept jamming up on me. Plus I think 40 bucks for 60 rounds of frangible 9mm is a rip off. Of course I paid the fee! But I'm not going back.

I think that place wouldn't be able to exist if not for Kalifornia citizens who dump many $$$ into the business. I also got a lot of sh1t from the employees when they asked where I was from and I told them. One of them had the audacity to ask me if I was allowed to own firearms and I replied that my collection would put his to shame.

The magazine issue is a gray area and I wouldn't venture into it, but if they don't want to respect their Kali customers, vote with your $$.

glen avon
03-31-2006, 8:53 AM
The Gun Stores MP5 is a piece of crap. ...

tell ya what, that thing jammed on me like 4 years ago, they blamed the mags.

nice to see they fixed it....

JAMES77257
03-31-2006, 8:59 AM
tell ya what, that thing jammed on me like 4 years ago, they blamed the mags.

nice to see they fixed it....


There is a gun shop on Blue Diamond rd, just down from Bass Pro. They have much nicer machine guns to shoot.

CWatson
03-31-2006, 9:01 AM
I have been to "The Gunstore" on Tropicana a few times and everytime I have been there it was obvious the employees have a greater than thou attitude towards the common folks. I will not go there again.

CW

Yar
03-31-2006, 9:12 AM
I have heard that there are other Vegas stores that sell magazines without checking ID. The stuff is seriously marked up though. Only someone seriously desperate would purchase a $17 magazine for $45.

shopkeep
03-31-2006, 9:20 AM
I thought all gun stores in states surrounding California checked ID for high cap purchases. As far as I know there's some kind of city ordinance in Las Vegas that prevents sales of high capacity magazines to residents of California, Hawaii, New York, and other ban states.

Anyways though, we'll have the last laugh anyhow because right now politicians in Las Vegas are working hard on getting a citywide Assault Weapons ban into effect. The "Gun Store" will have to shut their doors then because they certainly don't appear to be selling products for hunters and sportsmen.

FreedomIsNotFree
03-31-2006, 9:41 AM
I thought all gun stores in states surrounding California checked ID for high cap purchases. As far as I know there's some kind of city ordinance in Las Vegas that prevents sales of high capacity magazines to residents of California, Hawaii, New York, and other ban states.

Anyways though, we'll have the last laugh anyhow because right now politicians in Las Vegas are working hard on getting a citywide Assault Weapons ban into effect. The "Gun Store" will have to shut their doors then because they certainly don't appear to be selling products for hunters and sportsmen.

If it wasn't for out of staters paying ridiculous amounts of money to shoot their POS guns they would be out of business....I'm not one to wish for any AW ban on others, but the jokers at The Gun Store sure push my buttons.

steel-cut
03-31-2006, 9:47 AM
Last I checked our (Californians) money was just as green as the free states. If they want to treat people like that then they can do it without my $$$.

Jicko
03-31-2006, 9:59 AM
What's the name?

There is a gun shop on Blue Diamond rd, just down from Bass Pro. They have much nicer machine guns to shoot.

techenigma
03-31-2006, 10:12 AM
The Gun Store in Las Vegas will ask for your I.D regardless of how you pay. I was out there and going to be shooting with a friend (who lives there) , well we decided we needed more mag's for his AR and went to buy them.
Now we could've just had my friend buy them and it would've been no problem, but I happened to be the one who went up and asked for them. The guy at the counter said "Yah, we have em." and proceeded to pull out a wooden drawer behind him filled with them. I said "Ok, I need 5." and pulled out my $100 to pay at which point he said: "Not yet, lets see some ID." and I produced my CA license. He didn't become loud and boisterous like the story above but he said "Nope can't them to ya, its illegal for a california resident to buy them."

I dont want to write a damn novel here so I'll just note that I told him it wasn't illegal to buy them in Nevada, and I'm not crossing state lines with them so its perfectly fine. Thats when he became loud with the intent of having everyone in the store staring or something. So I had my friend come over and present his I.D to buy them and then he accused my friend of buying them to give to me, so I could commit a felony and take them back to CA with me. At that point we left, never to return and never ever to give business to an obviously draconian, police-state gun store.

1. Don't look like a Californian.
2. Pay with cash, they don't have to see your ID.

Very simple. One problem with Californians, is we start getting this idea to use plastic for everything. Of course that's going to result in your ID getting noticed! :)

What you do is between you and God, and the DOJ only gets involved if you happen to do something silly and get caught. You've got every legitimate reason to enjoy free-state configuration for the duration of your internship, regardless of some lame store policy.

unimog_88
03-31-2006, 10:19 AM
I think the store has the rights to refuse serving any customer.

If I were the CA customer, I'd say, sorry, I don't have ID with me. Then go somewhere else.

How about the gunshows in NV nowadays? Anybody checks ID while doing transactions in cash?

ryang
03-31-2006, 10:47 AM
Stores have the right to refuse service to anyone, provided it's not due to racial discrimination. The beef here is The Gun Store employees all seem to have an obnoxious attitude regarding this issue. That kind of bad customer service definitely warrants patronage elsewhere.

I've seen CA residents taking a CCW class in their store getting the same treatment. Unless you can prove NV residency it doesn't seem to matter what justification you give for wanting to buy hi-cap mags.

tenpercentfirearms
03-31-2006, 11:10 AM
Stores have the right to refuse service to anyone, provided it's not due to racial discrimination.I am not the type, but correct me if I am wrong, I can discriminate on anyone for any reason. Can't I tell someone they can't buy a product because they are white? Isn't it the same principle that you white people decide not to do business with me? Does the government have the right to tell me who to sell my products to? :confused:

Keep in mind this is in theory. You all know I don't care who you are, you all look green to me! Green like cash!!! :D

DigglerD
03-31-2006, 11:20 AM
I am not the type, but correct me if I am wrong, I can discriminate on anyone for any reason. Can't I tell someone they can't buy a product because they are white? Isn't it the same principle that you white people decide not to do business with me? Does the government have the right to tell me who to sell my products to? :confused:

Keep in mind this is in theory. You all know I don't care who you are, you all look green to me! Green like cash!!! :D

You are right... sorta...

Stores have the right to refuse service to anyone, provided it's not due to racial discrimination.

You are wrong...sorta

...The only thing on the books in terms of having to sell to all customers alike pertain to the combination of interstate commerce and race.

Is more like it.

Reason being in the 60's the south was going crazy with racial discrimination and Congress didn't like it but had no official power to make it illegal. They did however have the power to regulate interstate commerce... so... they made a bunch of laws that made it illegal to racially discriminate in anything that could loosely (VERY loosely) be tied to interstate commerce. This included hotels, businesses that may cater to out of town visitors, businesses that used out of town products, etc.

Stanze
03-31-2006, 11:22 AM
I am not the type, but correct me if I am wrong, I can discriminate on anyone for any reason. Can't I tell someone they can't buy a product because they are white? Isn't it the same principle that you white people decide not to do business with me? Does the government have the right to tell me who to sell my products to? :confused:

Keep in mind this is in theory. You all know I don't care who you are, you all look green to me! Green like cash!!! :D

Been to the South much? Some business people in the South have asked over the phone if our client was black or white? And, this was at a flower shop I worked at! FLOWERS!:rolleyes:

NoTime2Shoot
03-31-2006, 11:35 AM
Huh.

I was at that store a few years ago. The guy that was helping myself and my wife was really nice. I had fun, (it had been a long time since I had fired anything auto). The guy gave us some free rounds, (and a couple of free firearm rentals!). We had pleasant conversation about Kalifornia and federal gun laws. It kinda surprises me that there have been that many bad experiences there.

That being said, with the attitude of not selling to Ca. residents, I will not return. It is silly for them to make up there own "law". It would be one thing if it was store policy, it's another to make up laws, (I wonder if the owner worked at the Ca. DOJ).

Muzz
03-31-2006, 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by JAMES77257
There is a gun shop on Blue Diamond rd, just down from Bass Pro. They have much nicer machine guns to shoot.

What's the name?

If he was thinking of the Nevada Pistol Academy on Blue Diamond Road they closed down months ago. It was due to the landlord not wanting to upgrade ventilation for all the spent powder and lead.

M1A Rifleman
03-31-2006, 11:47 AM
Yea, I saw this happen at the Reno Gun Show about 5-years ago. Several tables were "carding" guys requesting to buy hi cap mags to see if the were from the great and lovely state. I recall one guy getting slammed for showing his CA DL. I think CA and NV have an agreement to "respect" each others laws and this may be where this is coming from.

It's kind of like buying a vehicle from NV. In the 70's, you could buy a new (no CA emmisions) vehicle in NV and avoid the CA sales tax, then simply re-register in CA. Sacto goy wise to this and put a stop to it and NV complies.

Michael303
03-31-2006, 12:14 PM
Hmm, ironic that this post would come up now. I’m going to LV next weekend for a concert. I was going to go to the Gun Store to shoot their machine guns, but now I’m having second thoughts. I had been there in 2001, and the guy clerk nice enough, but back then I only wanted to buy some ammo, not shoot MGs or buy magazines. If there are better places to go MG shooting, I’d love to know, because I’d rather give my business to them over a disrespectful non-customer service oriented organization.

Pablo
03-31-2006, 12:34 PM
I have heard that there are other Vegas stores that sell magazines without checking ID. The stuff is seriously marked up though. Only someone seriously desperate would purchase a $17 magazine for $45.

Yeap, I have been there. I saw Betas going for $300...

Pablo
03-31-2006, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by JAMES77257
There is a gun shop on Blue Diamond rd, just down from Bass Pro. They have much nicer machine guns to shoot.



If he was thinking of the Nevada Pistol Academy on Blue Diamond Road they closed down months ago. It was due to the landlord not wanting to upgrade ventilation for all the spent powder and lead.

There's is two stores close from Bass Pro Shop. One is in Dean Martin Drive but it doesn't have a gun range (Citadel Gun & Safe).

The other one is located 2-3 minutes away on Blue Diamond Rd. They have a gun range but I don't know if they have full auto. However I can tell you that the price of the ammunition is very expensive I paid $30 for 2 boxes of 45ACP. They were very friendly and yes they do have 30 rounds magazines.

Saleen_Cobra
03-31-2006, 1:06 PM
"The Gun Store" in Las Vegas is worthless and Ill never go there again. About a year ago my father and I were there, and he was trying to buy a Beretta 96. The clerk flat-out refused to deal with us, and said its the stores policy not to sell to CA residents, even though the gun was CA DOJ approved, and we had arranged a CA FFL to handle the transfer.

Rascal
03-31-2006, 1:11 PM
I don't have a problem with the Gun Store not selling mags to Kalifornians, but I do have a problem with them saying that "IT IS ILLEGAL" That's BS and a down right LIE! This is the reason that I won't go back there again. I have heard them say this before myself, and that was the last time I went back.
Wes didn't tell us it was illegal when he stopped sell lowers, he told us that he didn't want to deal with all the hassles. That's fine. I can respect that, but don't LIE.

grammaton76
03-31-2006, 1:13 PM
Ya know, Vegas isn't the only city in a free state, nor is Nevada the only free state.

Personally if I were you, I'd make a stop in Arizona before stopping by Nevada. Smaller shops just don't care. It's when a store becomes really well known and high-volume, that they start having to worry about harrassment lawsuits. J&G Sales in Arizona, for example, is notorious for watching for Californians.

Anyway, some guidelines from when I bought some mags in Washington (which live in a box with my parents):

1. Don't shop where everyone else does. High-volume stores are more likely to care about ID, low-volume stores are probably happy to get legal business. Check pawn shops, for that matter, outside of CA they tend to deal in guns. And probably mags.

2. Don't look Californian. We tend to carry ourselves differently and dress differently. Wear clothes from Wal-Mart, for one thing.

3. Don't sound like a Californian. I spent 15 years in Tennessee, and can flip vocabulary and a light accent on and off. Makes a big difference to how folks act around you, including locally. Everyone's at ease around a good 'ole boy.

4. Pay in cash, no ID needed. Have a friend along - "He drove, my wallet's at my hotel room".

5. Strike up conversation with the store owner. A nice big smile and "I just got my AR at the gun show last week, and forgot to pick up mags..." will also help out. But make sure there WAS a gun show last week...

Kind of silly to have to do all this just to buy mags for out-of-state use. :)

caliar15
03-31-2006, 1:57 PM
I as a gun store owner can choose not to sell products to people. If I were in Nevada, I would probably choose not to sell hi-capacity magazines to California residents because of the possible ramifications of my own local law enforcement and state government in their attemps to cooperate with the California DOJ. If you go to Nevada gun shops in order to break the law, that just isn't bright. Sure it might be LEGAL, but is it wise? Don't blame free state business for not wanting to even appear to be helping other people break the law. It is our state who made the screwed up laws, get mad at them and try to change it, not out of state dealers who are trying to stay out of trouble.
This coming from a guy who bad mouths Fulton for doing the same thing you just said you would do too protect yourself from possible prosecution:rolleyes:

tenpercentfirearms
03-31-2006, 2:02 PM
This coming from a guy who bad mouths Fulton for doing the same thing you just said you would do too protect yourself from possible prosecutionStep up to the plate and show me where I bad mouthed Fulton? I never blamed Fulton for what they did. He said he had mouths to feed and he made a decision to think of his employees first. Did it suck? Yes. Did I get over it? Yes. Did I offer to sell his uppers for him after that? Yes. Did he even bother to reply to me? no. I am way over Fulton and you might be mistaking my customers displeasure for Fulton as mine. This is not the case. I never took the Fulton decision personally and my comments remain consistent. Fulton had the choice to make, he made it. I might have stated he tried to strong arm me into it and he did by threatening to report my lawful property as stolen. I told him not to try and strong arm me and to just ask for the lowers back and I gave them back.

Caliar15, go back and check what I said, rather than insult you when you have misrepresented me, I will assume you made an honest mistake.

FreedomIsNotFree
03-31-2006, 2:21 PM
I am not the type, but correct me if I am wrong, I can discriminate on anyone for any reason. Can't I tell someone they can't buy a product because they are white? Isn't it the same principle that you white people decide not to do business with me? Does the government have the right to tell me who to sell my products to? :confused:

Keep in mind this is in theory. You all know I don't care who you are, you all look green to me! Green like cash!!! :D


Nope...you cant discriminate any "protected" class. IE Race..etc..etc. Sure you can come up with another reason, like not giving one at all, but if you tell someone you will not sell to them based on the color of their skin you are ripe for a Federal Lawsuit.

JAMES77257
03-31-2006, 3:56 PM
There's is two stores close from Bass Pro Shop. One is in Dean Martin Drive but it doesn't have a gun range (Citadel Gun & Safe).

The other one is located 2-3 minutes away on Blue Diamond Rd. They have a gun range but I don't know if they have full auto. However I can tell you that the price of the ammunition is very expensive I paid $30 for 2 boxes of 45ACP. They were very friendly and yes they do have 30 rounds magazines.


It's about 2 minutes west of Bass Pro on the right side of Blue Diamond rd. There is a big sign on the wall that says "SHOOT A REAL MACHINE GUN"

MikeG22
03-31-2006, 4:08 PM
Definitly do all your business at the shop on blue diamond. They are extremly friendly and have as many or more machine guns to shoot the the gun store. Every time I've been to the gun store they have been jerks. Went there a year ago or so and was with a friend from Montana who lived in the sticks with no gun stores nearby. He wanted a couple magazines he had been having trouble finding and tried to buy them there. They did the whole ID thing and the guy wasn't even going to sell them to him with a friggen montana license. Had to go to the manager who decided the "they can have anything up there, I guess we can" and the guy helping reluctintly decided to sell them to him. Seriously not worth the time. And the MP5 does indeed jam more than the Smuckers factory.

The one on Blue Diamond (address 4610) is Las Vegas Gun Range and Firearms Center. They are top notch.

artherd
03-31-2006, 7:07 PM
They are not kidding, CA DOJ does go and instruct NV dealers not to sell high-caps to CA residents. Even if said resident has a condo in LV :rolleyes:

I belive they may also cooperate with ATF. I am unsure of the theroey of law , if any, under which they think they are opperating.

1911_Mitch
03-31-2006, 7:47 PM
The store on Blue Diamond Road is:


Las Vegas Gun Range & Firearms Center

www.lasvegasgunrange.net

702-386-4867

Located at:

4610 Blue Diamond Road

Approximately 1-2 miles west of I-15.

The owner used to live in CA and moved to NV because our ridiculous gun laws.

dawson8r
03-31-2006, 9:06 PM
At a gun show in Phoenix a friend was making a private party purchase. The seller asked for an ID. My friend produced his Utah CCW. Dollars were exchanged for product. The seller never bothered to look at the BACK of the CCW that showed the CA address. Like Gram stated, cash and carry is the way to go!

Justang
03-31-2006, 11:36 PM
I went in there with a friend, who lives in LV, and they guy wouldn't sell me anything! He told me they weren't allowed to sell anything to CA residents. I wasn't trying buy a firearm or any other accessories that aren't legal in Ca. He also said they could be sued for selling anything to me.

He to also got loud, puffed out his chest, and started looking around to see if anybody was watching his cool act. whatever.

douglasmorris99
04-01-2006, 5:30 AM
I wonder about this as well. I'm going to be doing a 3 month long internship in Austin, TX, and of course I'm bringing my guns. I'm also going to want to get ahold of some 30 round mags to use while I'm in a free state. I figure I could just buy a couple and sell them before I leave, but I'm guessing as soon as they see my CA ID they'll say no way.

I guess I'll just have to find someone from THR or arf.com to shoot with and let me use their mags ;)


NOBODY in Texas is going to ask you for an ID to buy magazines...or ammo, or scopes or knives or nunchucks or saps or any damn thing outside of firearms..

make sure you get your drivers Lic in Texas before your 30 days is up because you will be a resident!!! and hell you can even buy an ar15 or 10 and take your handguns home the day you buy them, usually within an hour dependant on the FBI's business levels when they call..
The longest I ever took to buy a gun in Texas was 30 min as it was christmas eve.

You will probably get to go to a real gunshow, Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Waco all have shows, there is at least one going on every month with in 3.5 hours of Austin..

at a gunshow, you see someone walking around with a sign on there back or on a gun hanging from their shoulder, you ask em how much, you like it, dicker a bit, give them cash and carry it home with you..

Of course, once you are a resident, IE the day you get your DL, you can take the CCW course for 250.00 and a few hours classroom time and gulp,,CARRY A LEGAL HANDGUN and if you have said CCW you dont need the background check when buying a gun from a dealer, AT ALL!
Lastly, with the latest new law, even if you dont have a CCW, you can have a handgun IN YOUR CAR!! all the time,,
Damn, I miss home...
Visit 6th st, go dancing in Grueene, visit Shliterbahun and the Alamo and God Bless, Texas!

Bye the way, the few leftists in Austin would change all that if they could, but they know there wouldnt be enough trees and rope in the area if they did..

techmci
04-01-2006, 7:45 AM
Reminds me of the time I saw a man toting a small red wagon out of the Reno Hilton during a gun show. The wagon was full of gun parts but mostly hi-cap magazines. He wheeled the wagon over to his sedan bearing California plates, loaded up the trunk and drove away. Nobody even blinked and those who did just smiled at the sight of the little red wagon with the shiny white wheels.

trbon8r
04-01-2006, 9:17 PM
If it wasn't for out of staters paying ridiculous amounts of money to shoot their POS guns they would be out of business....I'm not one to wish for any AW ban on others, but the jokers at The Gun Store sure push my buttons.

If it wasn't for California, the entire state of Nevada would be nothing more than the largest bowling alley on the planet.

xenophobe
04-01-2006, 9:26 PM
WAIT A MINUTE PEOPLE...

Certainly as a California citizen it is legal for you to buy high capacity magazines in Nevada.

Once you bring them over the state line, you are bringing Felony contraband into the state. Passing contraband over a State line is a Federal offense. This is not a gun related law, but an Interstate Commerce Law, one that I'm pretty sure stems to Prohibition and the smuggling of alcohol. If you bring them over the state line, it may very well be possible for DOJ to ask the ATF to file charges against a business that is selling a product that will knowingly be brought to someplace where it is illegal as a willing accomplice in the task.

I don't blame them for IDing them, and you shouldn't blame them to. The convienience of you paying them a few dollars profit does not surpass the legal issues and costs that might burden someone's livelihood.

filefish
04-01-2006, 11:46 PM
My best friend lives in Vegas.. Well Henderson but anyway I spend 4-8 weeks there a year. I have been to a lot of stores center mass, all American, citadel (cool shop), and black rifle armory just to name a few. It is not that they are as****ls.. They are scared.. Really scared. Universally they believe that if they sell me a hicap, they will loose there business and go to jail. Typically once the help finds out that I am from calli, they hide. I had a guy seriously debating whether or not he could sell me 500 rounds of .38 spcl and a bag of patches. I had spoke to the guy for a while before he found out I was from calli so I had a good read on him. After the sale my friend (a 10 year resident of NV) asked about buying a beta-c ($250) the guy said no it is too big of a risk. Seriously I would never bring a beta-c in to the state but I would consider keeping one at my friend’s house but not a chance NV license in hand. The bottom line is these guys are just scared.

dbol
04-01-2006, 11:56 PM
Passing contraband over a State line is a Federal offense. This is not a gun related law, but an Interstate Commerce Law, one that I'm pretty sure stems to Prohibition and the smuggling of alcohol. If you bring them over the state line, it may very well be possible for DOJ to ask the ATF to file charges against a business that is selling a product that will knowingly be brought to someplace where it is illegal as a willing accomplice in the task.

This is incorrect. The mags are not illegal at the federal level and therefore their interstate transportation is not a federal crime.

In my opinion these NV stores are being overly cautious, but are acting within their rights.

artherd
04-02-2006, 1:47 AM
I doubt there is any federal aspect, because the mags are not contraband unless and untill they are imported.

Also, there is an extremely large gap between the BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT STANDARD OF KNOWING OF INTENT TO COMMIT A CRIME, and 'not not knowing for sure he's absolutely not going to commit a crime.'

CA DL + high cap mag purchase + Nevada does NOT equal a crime (for reference sake "I am going to kill someone with dis here gat" would be "knowing" :P).



WAIT A MINUTE PEOPLE...

Certainly as a California citizen it is legal for you to buy high capacity magazines in Nevada.

Once you bring them over the state line, you are bringing Felony contraband into the state. Passing contraband over a State line is a Federal offense. This is not a gun related law, but an Interstate Commerce Law, one that I'm pretty sure stems to Prohibition and the smuggling of alcohol. If you bring them over the state line, it may very well be possible for DOJ to ask the ATF to file charges against a business that is selling a product that will knowingly be brought to someplace where it is illegal as a willing accomplice in the task.

I don't blame them for IDing them, and you shouldn't blame them to. The convienience of you paying them a few dollars profit does not surpass the legal issues and costs that might burden someone's livelihood.

TMC
04-02-2006, 7:58 AM
I freind who lives in Reno and is close to an FFL says that the BATF as "requested" that NV stores not sell hi-caps to CA residents. Obviously the CA DOJ has been whining to the BATF and the BATF has complied.

The shops in NV live and die by thier FFL which the BATF hold over them, so they do what they are told. Said state of affairs but I see the guns stores side of it.

A few friend who were in Vegas las years tried just about every gun store and every place they when they were asked for ID to by mags. Pretty bad too because he was there for a 3-gun Nationals and wanted extra mags for the match, he really did plan on selling them before he came home.

FreedomIsNotFree
04-02-2006, 8:39 AM
Again...the issue to me, with the Gun Store, is their attitude. Sure, if you would rather NOT sell Hi-Caps to CA residents I can understand.

On the other hand, their attitude, posturing, condescending attitude and overall jerk like dealings with CA residents requires me to NEVER patronize their establishment again.

filefish
04-02-2006, 8:49 AM
Again...the issue to me, with the Gun Store, is their attitude. Sure, if you would rather NOT sell Hi-Caps to CA residents I can understand.

On the other hand, their attitude, posturing, condescending attitude and overall jerk like dealings with CA residents requires me to NEVER patronize their establishment again.
they are constantly bombarded with calies wanting to buy stuff they cant sell us

Riodog
04-02-2006, 9:15 AM
Xenophobe, disassembled they are perfectly legal to bring into this state.
With homes in both Nevada and Arizona there is no law that says I can't buy what I damn well please nor am I required to 'certify under penalty of perjury" where I intend to keep my possessions. While I am required to maintain my "CDL" from Kalifornia for my job, there is no requirement for residency to purchase mags, ammo, or a piece of *ss. IF I found the need then I would obtain a state I.D. card for said purpose .

Ten%, while you may refuse to do business with me for whatever reason you might come up with on the spur of the moment-be very careful as I might be wearing a recording device-and "what you say" WILL be used against you if the "wrong terminology" should slip from your lips. Discrimination will not be tolerated.

I do find that your attitude leaves something to be desired .

YES ! Douglasmorriss99, having had a home in Texas (Wylie) for years, I too miss it immensely. It's a whole different world as far as attitude goes.
DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS !
LV (eastern Kalifornia) is starting to smell just like this cesspool to the west but I guess that's to be expected.

Any gunstore in either Nevada or Arizona that feels that they should act as Kalifornia's "gestapo flunky" doesn't get a penny of my business and that's the best way to wound them >-> in the wallet! There are plenty that still appreciate your business.
Rio

Mike Searson
04-02-2006, 10:21 AM
If it wasn't for California, the entire state of Nevada would be nothing more than the largest bowling alley on the planet.

If it wasn't for California, the Pacific Ocean would be the backstop to my range.
;)

FreedomIsNotFree
04-02-2006, 10:21 AM
they are constantly bombarded with calies wanting to buy stuff they cant sell us

Bombarded? Well, they are also "bombarded" by CA residents that pay to shoot their POS auto's. They dont complain about that now do they?

glen avon
04-02-2006, 10:35 AM
Bombarded? Well, they are also "bombarded" by CA residents that pay to shoot their POS auto's. They dont complain about that now do they?

they probably do.

xenophobe
04-02-2006, 10:54 AM
Xenophobe, disassembled they are perfectly legal to bring into this state.

As spare parts. For assembling a magazine that you did not previously own, it isn't.


I doubt there is any federal aspect, because the mags are not contraband unless and untill they are imported.


The way I had this explained to me was that it did not matter. Knowingly bringing a legal item over a state border, into a state that it is forbidden is breaking some Federal smuggling law. One that would probably never be enforced, as state laws are strict enough, but in cases where the quantity could justify it... like smuggling ciggarettes into a state where taxes haven't been paid for resale.



CA DL + high cap mag purchase + Nevada does NOT equal a crime (for reference sake "I am going to kill someone with dis here gat" would be "knowing" :P).

And I stated as much in the first sentence of my last post.

sac7000
04-02-2006, 10:59 AM
I recently purchased some " 10 round " magazines for my 9mm Ruger P95 from a chap on Ebay. While loading them I lost count but noticed they were a bit heavier then my factory mags. When I unloaded the magazine I discovered to my horrow I had " accidently " loaded 17 rounds! The next 2 hours I hid in the basement with all the windows closed and doors locked. I knew it would only be a matter of time before assualt weapon packing agents of justice would be kicking down my door. The next morning I carefully crawled out of the basement, grabbed the ' evil ' magazines and buried them in my neighbors back yard. Hopefully nobody saw me. I swear on the many graves of my dead goldfish this is a true story.

Mike Searson
04-02-2006, 12:01 PM
I recently purchased some " 10 round " magazines for my 9mm Ruger P95 from a chap on Ebay. While loading them I lost count but noticed they were a bit heavier then my factory mags. When I unloaded the magazine I discovered to my horrow I had " accidently " loaded 17 rounds! The next 2 hours I hid in the basement with all the windows closed and doors locked. I knew it would only be a matter of time before assualt weapon packing agents of justice would be kicking down my door. The next morning I carefully crawled out of the basement, grabbed the ' evil ' magazines and buried them in my neighbors back yard. Hopefully nobody saw me. I swear on the many graves of my dead goldfish this is a true story.


Oooooh I'm tellin!
:D

filefish
04-02-2006, 2:24 PM
I recently purchased some " 10 round " magazines for my 9mm Ruger P95 from a chap on Ebay. While loading them I lost count but noticed they were a bit heavier then my factory mags. When I unloaded the magazine I discovered to my horrow I had " accidently " loaded 17 rounds! The next 2 hours I hid in the basement with all the windows closed and doors locked. I knew it would only be a matter of time before assualt weapon packing agents of justice would be kicking down my door. The next morning I carefully crawled out of the basement, grabbed the ' evil ' magazines and buried them in my neighbors back yard. Hopefully nobody saw me. I swear on the many graves of my dead goldfish this is a true story.
what a hoarific story I feal for you and what you have been through and I wouldn't wish that on anyone

p.s. where did you get them:D

Turbinator
04-02-2006, 3:39 PM
I recently purchased some " 10 round " magazines for my 9mm Ruger P95 from a chap on Ebay.

I've noticed people deliberately selling hicap mags on ebay - they are listed as 10 rounds only, but when you look at the picture, they are very clearly over 10 rounds. My only worry is that the seller could be a DOJ agent looking to bust the unwitting CA gun owner.

Turby

glen avon
04-02-2006, 3:54 PM
It's b/c eBay won't allow hicap mags to be sold. all mags must be 10-rds or less per eBay, not the law.

BamBam-31
04-02-2006, 4:20 PM
Screw Ebay, and screw The Gun Store.

This WHOLE story is a repeat of many similar stories from that worthless shop. I, too, fired that damned MP5 jam-o-matic, and the employee shot about half my rounds un-jamming it and blamed ME for not knowing how to fire a weapon.

If these stories are not enough to warrant a boycott of that shop and its horribly obnoxious employees, then I don't know what is. :mad:

Pablo
04-02-2006, 11:12 PM
I've noticed people deliberately selling hicap mags on ebay - they are listed as 10 rounds only, but when you look at the picture, they are very clearly over 10 rounds. My only worry is that the seller could be a DOJ agent looking to bust the unwitting CA gun owner.

Turby

It doesn't matter if they advertised as 10 rounds magazines, what else could you do? :)

zatoh
04-03-2006, 7:09 AM
My experience at The Gun Store was positive. But then again I didn't shoot the MP5 (I shot the MP40). The guy helping me was courteous and helpful. He even warned me not to support it by the magazine or else it would jam for sure. He explained that at nearly 60 years old it was pretty finicky about how it gets handled. It was a pretty amazing gun considering it's age and history. That's the only thing I "bought" there. I did not attempt to buy anything else.

unimog_88
04-03-2006, 10:01 AM
Ya know, Vegas isn't the only city in a free state, nor is Nevada the only free state.

Personally if I were you, I'd make a stop in Arizona before stopping by Nevada. Smaller shops just don't care. It's when a store becomes really well known and high-volume, that they start having to worry about harrassment lawsuits. J&G Sales in Arizona, for example, is notorious for watching for Californians.

Yeah, like J&G Sales in AZ. They are cool guys. Also they honor C&R (FFL-03) with C&R handguns. They are the guys knowing laws pretty well.

We are the people to spend money, we choose where to spend.:D

Creeping Incrementalism
04-03-2006, 4:53 PM
I don't see why its so unlikely that California residents might leave their mags in Nevada, Oregon, or Arizona in storage, or at a friend's place. I don't think there's anyplace in California where you couldn't be over the border in more than four hours, and all those states, especially Nevada, have tons of places to shoot. At the local range use new 10-rounders or old 30-rounders+, and since you often can't rapid-fire at ranges anyway, just save the load-on-Saturday & not-run-out-until-Sunday rock-n-roll using your mountainous pile of new 30-rounders for montly trips out to the border states' boonies.

Also, if there's a shop in Reno or Las Vegas that doesn't ID for mags, I'd be surprised. But I haven't heard of any Idaho shops checking IDs.

Mike Searson
04-03-2006, 5:47 PM
I've never been carded for mags.

tenpercentfirearms
04-03-2006, 6:05 PM
I do find that your attitude leaves something to be desired. Why don't you read my post again. I said in theory can't you sell to whoever you want? If the idea that we should be free to do business with whoever we want whenever we want is something to be desired, may I recommend you head to Cuba. Again, theory, not practice. In a pure capitalistic society people could sell to whoever they want whenever they want and for what ever reason they want. That means if I am a racist bigot, I don't have to sell to someone I don't like. That also means they don't have to buy from me and if my racist bigot policies cost me business and I go out of business, then I might want to rethink my policies. Idealy I should sell to whoever has the cash, to do otherwise is to cut my profit and might eventually put me out of business.

Don't be the PC police and carefully read what people are writing. If we can't be free to be racists in this country, then we how can we be free not to be racists? It is not the government's job to impose morals, it is the individual citizen's responsiblity. You can try and legislate morality all you want, but it won't change individual attitudes.

Creeping Incrementalism
04-03-2006, 6:29 PM
I've never been carded for mags.

What city/cities?

Mike Searson
04-03-2006, 7:34 PM
What city/cities?


Well mostly in the Reno area...it's closest to where I live.

I was in one shop and heard the guy behind the counter tell someone they needed a NV ID to buy M1A 20 rounders.

I've bought magazines in several stores and was never even asked for ID while using a credit card, no less.

Maybe you have to try the method from American Graffiti...

"Umm...yeah. Let me have a Three Musketeers and a ball point pen, one of those combs there, a pint of Old Harper, some 20 round M1-A magazines, a coupla flashlight batteries and some beef jerky."

:D

islanderman7
04-03-2006, 11:18 PM
Well mostly in the Reno area...it's closest to where I live.

I was in one shop and heard the guy behind the counter tell someone they needed a NV ID to buy M1A 20 rounders.

I've bought magazines in several stores and was never even asked for ID while using a credit card, no less.

Maybe you have to try the method from American Graffiti...

"Umm...yeah. Let me have a Three Musketeers and a ball point pen, one of those combs there, a pint of Old Harper, some 20 round M1-A magazines, a coupla flashlight batteries and some beef jerky."

:D

wont work for me :( , i look asian. i swear though, i really am a coconut. white inside, brown outside

rorschach
04-04-2006, 6:34 PM
If this is the same place I am thinking of, I too was denied service. I wanted to buy a glock 17 round mag, and guy behind the counter asked for my ID. When I showed him, he got all unglued and went into a tirade about just carrying extra 10 round mags, and telling me to break the law in my own state instead of his. BTW this is my first post, and Im glad theres a place like this for us to get together.

glen avon
04-04-2006, 7:07 PM
(QUOTE=rorschach)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/36/Inkblot.gif/300px-Inkblot.gif
(/QUOTE)

what? :confused:

Creeping Incrementalism
04-04-2006, 9:10 PM
Well mostly in the Reno area...it's closest to where I live.

I was in one shop and heard the guy behind the counter tell someone they needed a NV ID to buy M1A 20 rounders.

Well... I don't know what to say. Every story I've heard (all from Californians) was that gunshops in those cities always asked for ID. Maybe gun store clerks in Nevada can smell Californians.

TacFan
04-04-2006, 9:22 PM
(QUOTE=rorschach)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/36/Inkblot.gif/300px-Inkblot.gif
(/QUOTE)

what? :confused:

Mothman prophecies ? :D

BamBam-31
04-04-2006, 11:00 PM
Or Alan Moore's "Watchmen." Hrrrmm.

Krusher
04-04-2006, 11:23 PM
I agree any store has that right,
But at the same time shouldnt treat the customer they dont want to sell to like a peice of trash either..


[QUOTE=unimog_88]I think the store has the rights to refuse serving any customer.

markymark
04-04-2006, 11:31 PM
(QUOTE=rorschach)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/36/Inkblot.gif/300px-Inkblot.gif
(/QUOTE)

what? :confused:
I'm amazed with the stuff that you know/are familiar with.

odysseus
04-05-2006, 2:10 AM
Reason being in the 60's the south was going crazy with racial discrimination and Congress didn't like it but had no official power to make it illegal. They did however have the power to regulate interstate commerce... so... they made a bunch of laws that made it illegal to racially discriminate in anything that could loosely (VERY loosely) be tied to interstate commerce. This included hotels, businesses that may cater to out of town visitors, businesses that used out of town products, etc.

Let me define that further for you, since your going around it a little. The case in question that was pleaded to SCOTUS was The USA vc. The Heart of Atlanta Hotel. One of my professors drilled that one into us regarding the Commerce Clause. It was the first time in US legal history the Commerce Clause was used in this way and it very much bolstered the strength of the Commerce Clause in the US today. In that case a hotel would not stop discriminating against African Americans and claimed that the recent Fed Civil Rights act did not apply to them; but since they were near a major Interstate highway, yup they did.

Now applying Commerce Clause to The Gun Store's idea on this on a CALIFORNIA law on importation and not even posession is a stretch IMO. I think those here who are supporting that are just the type of people the DOJ love. Since there should not be any expectation outside of fear, loathing, and paranoia that someone coming in to buy small and not "bulk" amounts is going to be importing anything. Should they stop then selling fruit without NV ID at the grocery stores in LV? Same thing. Well perhaps you might say I am biased, but I believe that there is no binding precident, only fear in the staff member's mind. It's too bad really.

On a side note, I have been to The Gun Store in LV. Now while I did have a normal experience there, I did witness personally a few of the staff with a serious holier than thou attitude. They are right next to the strip - so for sure they get a lot of losers in there, but I think for those like us in the forum - they are a place that I don't, and never will recommend. Their prices are high and while they don't like being where they are, they certainly don't mind the foot traffic coming in.

glen avon
04-05-2006, 7:56 AM
I'm amazed with the stuff that you know/are familiar with.

thanks, but you knew about it too.... ;)

xenophobe
04-05-2006, 8:08 AM
I see a four eyed demon or some kind of secret stealth plane.... maybe two clowns hanging off either side of a motorcycle...

glen avon
04-05-2006, 8:37 AM
I thought it looked like a pelvis and sacrum. freud would love that.

blacklisted
04-05-2006, 1:09 PM
I see two birds looking in opposite directions, and lungs with a sternum in the middle.

markymark
04-05-2006, 1:10 PM
thanks, but you knew about it too.... ;)
I had to look it up :o
I knew there was a reason why you posted that picture out of nowhere.

EBWhite
04-05-2006, 1:15 PM
I went there, used the coupon and shot the grease gun. For 30 bucks, it was cool, i enjoyed it. The employees are a little harsh there and the prices are a little high on most stuff. If you want cheap mags to leave in NV, just get a local po box and order them and have them shipped there..

Richard
04-05-2006, 1:45 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/ro1964/WileE.jpg
:D

TrailerparkTrash
04-06-2006, 12:19 AM
They are not kidding, CA DOJ does go and instruct NV dealers not to sell high-caps to CA residents. Even if said resident has a condo in LV... .

I belive they may also cooperate with ATF. I am unsure of the theroey of law , if any, under which they think they are opperating.

Nah, that's B.S. The CA DOJ has no more authority to enforce CA laws OUTSIDE of CA's border than Ronald McDonald has the authority to change Colonel Sander's secret "herbs & spices" recipe.

I agree that the CA DOJ probably sent out letters looking all official with colorful letterhead and the Attorney General's signature and the Governor's signature, the state seal blah blah blah.... The letter probably sited numerous CALIFORNIA laws pertaining to weapons blah blah blah. That inturn, probably put the "fear" into the gun shop owners. That's all it was, a "fear letter" with no teeth. It is government extortion.

The CA DOJ can't stop a lawful business out side of CA's borders from conducting a legal business transaction in another state. I fully agree that if the store did not LIE and just said, "it's our policy" not to sell to CA residents, than I would have maybe a 1% respect for that store. Since they blatantly lied to the guy and said that CA DOJ makes it a crime for him to sell to a CA resident, I have ZERO respect for those business practices.

I think the Las Vegas Gun Store on Tropica is a chick ***** outfit. The clerks in there know about as much as the law as the "Skipper" on Giligan's island knew about safe boating and weather!

rorschach
04-06-2006, 12:27 AM
Or Alan Moore's "Watchmen." Hrrrmm.

YES!!

At least someone gets it.

mds2004
04-06-2006, 10:10 AM
Looks like a small cat or something walking up a street with light behind him because his shadow is is on both sides going forward.

Wulf
04-21-2006, 2:54 PM
I freind who lives in Reno and is close to an FFL says that the BATF as "requested" that NV stores not sell hi-caps to CA residents. Obviously the CA DOJ has been whining to the BATF and the BATF has complied.


I wonder how far this coercive activity has been cast? Just the adjoining states, west of the rockies, nationwide....?

rdibley
04-26-2006, 5:43 PM
I've been to the gun store twice, each time only to shoot the (sub)machine guns. The last time, I went to try out the SAW. I asked the guy behind the counter if I could take a look at it first. He was reluctant to do so, but eventually did, and as he took the gun from off the shelf and placed in on the counter in front of me, he proceeded to sweep me and half of the store with the barrel. Then, as I was looking at it, I started to close the top cover (I just moved it a little), and he got all over my case, explaining to me that the gun could go off. Of couse, this would require a round to magically appear in the barrel, along with a few extra deliberate steps before that would actually happen.

I couldn't help but feel offended by the situation, but I keep reminding myself that they probably deal mostly with tourists who don't know much of anything about guns other than what they see in the movies. But then I remind myself again that I was being treated this way by a guy who just violated one of the fundamental rules of firearms.

The guy who took me back to fire it was pretty cool though. I had a nice conversation with him, put some holes in a target, and went on my way. I guess it really depends on who you happen to be helped by.

metalhead357
04-26-2006, 7:03 PM
Hey guys- why not check out the OTHER thread that MAY have this issue resolved, print a copy, take it with ya'.

The pic/pdf is at post # 33 on page 4

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=24722 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=24722)

or the direct link;

http://members.cox.net/mobe/DOJmags.pdf (http://members.cox.net/mobe/DOJmags.pdf)

ryang
04-27-2006, 7:11 AM
Hey guys- why not check out the OTHER thread that MAY have this issue resolved, print a copy, take it with ya'.You are assuming they care. They don't. I was taking their CCW course and had the original letter with me. They didn't even want to see it.

metalhead357
04-27-2006, 3:22 PM
That is a shame.........

Woulda thought they'd LOVE the business:confused:

EBWhite
04-27-2006, 3:27 PM
screw um, dont shop there. If you know someone out of state just buy from the big guys and ahve it shipped to a friends house..

Michael303
04-28-2006, 7:54 PM
I was in Las Vegas in earlier in April for a concert. On the advice of the forum, I skipped the Gun Store for my machine gun shooting needs and did some yellowpageing. I ended up at the Las Vegas Gun Range & Firearms Center on Blue Diamond. I have to say that I was very happy with the quality of service there. The prices may bit a bit higher ($50 to rent), but the MGs are in great shape, and the shopkeep is friendly, even if he did ask where I was from. I would highly recommend them.

rorschach
04-28-2006, 9:04 PM
What about gun shows in Nevada?? Do they still refuse to sell hi-caps?? What about Arizona?? Me and some pals were gonna head out to the gun show in Phoenix last week, but we were short on cash anyway.

Bob Irwin
02-06-2008, 9:56 AM
Hello, all you Calguns folks. I happened upon your website a few days ago and discovered a great number of opinions about our store magazine sale policy. We are jerks, idiots, communists or worse - CA DOJ employees. The issue is sales of High Capacity Magazines to residents of states (like California) that prohibit importation of such items. Employees have been instructed to tell customers that it is our POLICY not to sell HiCap mags (or anything else) to residents of states that prohibit them. Some employees, in the recent past, have told customers that the sale itself is illegal, which was NOT TRUE. That wording has been corrected and again I apologize. An agent from CA DOJ informed me years ago that if we continue to be a source of "illegal" magazines, we will be criminally charged with conspiracy to violate California laws. Our attorneys confirm they can certainly do that and destroy my business with legal costs or even put me in jail. I agree with you that the California law is wrong, unconstitutional and unfair. However, I have no financial ability to fight the California government. Pushing this issue with them could close my store and put my 30 employees out of work. Should that happen, it would not help you obtain the magazines anyway. You are attacking the wrong party. I write this only to explain my thinking on our policy, not to open a debate. If you choose not to shop here, that is certainly your right, but I hope that you can at least understand my position.
Bob Irwin, The Gun Store

Rhys898
02-06-2008, 10:05 AM
Wow, well, I guess if there is a valid reason to necropost, this would qualify. Welcome to the board. I've enjoyed my trips to your shop. See you next time I'm in Vegas.

Jer

http://www.jeremystroud.com/guns/mp5.jpg

outersquare
02-06-2008, 10:20 AM
that is terrible

Neil McCauley
02-06-2008, 10:20 AM
Hello, all you Calguns folks. I happened upon your website a few days ago and discovered a great number of opinions about our store magazine sale policy. We are jerks, idiots, communists or worse - CA DOJ employees. The issue is sales of High Capacity Magazines to residents of states (like California) that prohibit importation of such items. Employees have been instructed to tell customers that it is our POLICY not to sell HiCap mags (or anything else) to residents of states that prohibit them. Some employees, in the recent past, have told customers that the sale itself is illegal, which was NOT TRUE. That wording has been corrected and again I apologize. An agent from CA DOJ informed me years ago that if we continue to be a source of "illegal" magazines, we will be criminally charged with conspiracy to violate California laws. Our attorneys confirm they can certainly do that and destroy my business with legal costs or even put me in jail. I agree with you that the California law is wrong, unconstitutional and unfair. However, I have no financial ability to fight the California government. Pushing this issue with them could close my store and put my 30 employees out of work. Should that happen, it would not help you obtain the magazines anyway. You are attacking the wrong party. I write this only to explain my thinking on our policy, not to open a debate. If you choose not to shop here, that is certainly your right, but I hope that you can at least understand my position.
Bob Irwin, The Gun Store

Hey Bob, over the shotshow weekend, I took a girl I met in a club to your store/range and we made out there while shooting your machine guns. I'll never forget my trip there. haha

Glock22Fan
02-06-2008, 10:30 AM
Hello, all you Calguns folks. I happened upon your website a few days ago and discovered a great number of opinions about our store magazine sale policy. We are jerks, idiots, communists or worse - CA DOJ employees. The issue is sales of High Capacity Magazines to residents of states (like California) that prohibit importation of such items. Employees have been instructed to tell customers that it is our POLICY not to sell HiCap mags (or anything else) to residents of states that prohibit them. Some employees, in the recent past, have told customers that the sale itself is illegal, which was NOT TRUE. That wording has been corrected and again I apologize. An agent from CA DOJ informed me years ago that if we continue to be a source of "illegal" magazines, we will be criminally charged with conspiracy to violate California laws. Our attorneys confirm they can certainly do that and destroy my business with legal costs or even put me in jail. I agree with you that the California law is wrong, unconstitutional and unfair. However, I have no financial ability to fight the California government. Pushing this issue with them could close my store and put my 30 employees out of work. Should that happen, it would not help you obtain the magazines anyway. You are attacking the wrong party. I write this only to explain my thinking on our policy, not to open a debate. If you choose not to shop here, that is certainly your right, but I hope that you can at least understand my position.
Bob Irwin, The Gun Store

Seems to me that you would be clear if you made Cali residents sign a declaration that they do not intend to ship prohibited items into California. More hassle for you, but at least you make the sale and the customers are happy.

Wyseguy
02-06-2008, 10:57 AM
My son-n-law actually worked at the Gun Store in Las Vegas a few years ago. He told me that their policy was very specific - No sales of any restricted items to California residents, even if they don't plan on transporting them to California.

Rhys898
02-06-2008, 12:08 PM
they wouldn't even let out of state people hold their guns for sale.i saw a hawii res ask to hold a gun and they didn't let him."store pollicy".the guys in the range are nicer than the guys on the retail side.very rude people if you ask me

While I was waiting for the mp5 to become available but after I had already paid I asked one of the guys behind the retail counter to let my wife try a ppk-s to see how it fit her hand. I also mentioned we wouldn't be able to buy it, because we were from california but I said that I had a hard time finding one for her to try. he pulled out the ppk-s then the ppk, and let both of us try it. Seemed like a cool guy.

Jer

deleted by PC police
02-06-2008, 12:32 PM
I could be completely wrong about this but here goes. I had heard that the State of California used to make people moving to the state make their cars smog compliant buy installing the parts that would be on a car sold in the state, The state was sued because this restricted freedom(for what exactly I’m not sure) but now when you come into the state your car only has to pass California emissions. It seems to me that restricting someone that owns a banned firearm from moving into the state or someone from conducting legal transactions out side of the state would fall into this same category, even more so because of the 2nd amendment.

p.s. thanks for all the bad reviews of the gun store. I am going to be in Vegas in march and shooting there was one of the things I was planning on doing.

leelaw
02-06-2008, 12:37 PM
Anyone up for writing CA DOJ BOF and asking

"Is it legal for a California resident to purchase high capacity magazines while out of state, for use only while out of state, with the intent to not import them into California?"

Flash the response at the jerkoff behind the counter in Nevada gun shops and watch them backpeddle.

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 1:10 PM
This is why he is afraid:

Cal. Penal Code § 778b. Aiding or encouraging crime from outside state

Every person, who, being out of this state, causes, aids, advises, or encourages any person to commit a crime within this state, and is afterwards found within this state, is punishable in the same manner as if he had been within this state when he caused, aided, advised, or encouraged the commission of such crime.

Yea, he shouldn't be guilty if you tell him you aren't going to import them to California. But that doesn't mean the CA DOJ can't threaten him.

odesskiy
02-06-2008, 1:13 PM
This is complete garbage. There is no law in Nevada stating that you have to be a state resident to buy normal-capacity magazines. There is no law in Nevada stating that California residents are prohibited from purchasing normal-capacity magazines in Nevada. There is no law in Nevada stating that you have to present an ID to buy normal capacity magazines. Even if you were threatened by this "CA DOJ Agent", you have absolutely no duty to enforce CA laws and regulations. Hell, you don't even have any duty to KNOW CA laws and regulations. You are conducting a legal transaction in your state and CA DOJ has zero jurisdiction over your business. If you are stupid enough to fall for this garbage and lose all business from Californians, than that's up to you as well. At least instruct your employees to stop being loud-mouthed jerks.

Hello, all you Calguns folks. I happened upon your website a few days ago and discovered a great number of opinions about our store magazine sale policy. We are jerks, idiots, communists or worse - CA DOJ employees. The issue is sales of High Capacity Magazines to residents of states (like California) that prohibit importation of such items. Employees have been instructed to tell customers that it is our POLICY not to sell HiCap mags (or anything else) to residents of states that prohibit them. Some employees, in the recent past, have told customers that the sale itself is illegal, which was NOT TRUE. That wording has been corrected and again I apologize. An agent from CA DOJ informed me years ago that if we continue to be a source of "illegal" magazines, we will be criminally charged with conspiracy to violate California laws. Our attorneys confirm they can certainly do that and destroy my business with legal costs or even put me in jail. I agree with you that the California law is wrong, unconstitutional and unfair. However, I have no financial ability to fight the California government. Pushing this issue with them could close my store and put my 30 employees out of work. Should that happen, it would not help you obtain the magazines anyway. You are attacking the wrong party. I write this only to explain my thinking on our policy, not to open a debate. If you choose not to shop here, that is certainly your right, but I hope that you can at least understand my position.
Bob Irwin, The Gun Store

Soldier415
02-06-2008, 1:16 PM
Hey Bob, over the shotshow weekend, I took a girl I met in a club to your store/range and we made out there while shooting your machine guns. I'll never forget my trip there. haha

Bob, you should note that he didnt close the deal, he only got some "head" and not the type you think...;) :D

hoozaru
02-06-2008, 1:34 PM
welcome to Calguns Bob.
you should find better attorneys

Sleepy1988
02-06-2008, 1:38 PM
Go to Oregon ;).

Wulf
02-06-2008, 1:39 PM
This is why he is afraid:

Cal. Penal Code § 778b. Aiding or encouraging crime from outside state

Every person, who, being out of this state, causes, aids, advises, or encourages any person to commit a crime within this state, and is afterwards found within this state, is punishable in the same manner as if he had been within this state when he caused, aided, advised, or encouraged the commission of such crime.

Yea, he shouldn't be guilty if you tell him you aren't going to import them to California. But that doesn't mean the CA DOJ can't threaten him.

Every round he sells across his counter could be used to "aid" in a crime in Ca.

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 1:40 PM
This is complete garbage. There is no law in Nevada stating that you have to be a state resident to buy normal-capacity magazines. There is no law in Nevada stating that California residents are prohibited from purchasing normal-capacity magazines in Nevada. There is no law in Nevada stating that you have to present an ID to buy normal capacity magazines. Even if you were threatened by this "CA DOJ Agent", you have absolutely no duty to enforce CA laws and regulations. Hell, you don't even have any duty to KNOW CA laws and regulations. You are conducting a legal transaction in your state and CA DOJ has zero jurisdiction over your business. If you are stupid enough to fall for this garbage and lose all business from Californians, than that's up to you as well. At least instruct your employees to stop being loud-mouthed jerks.

I'm sorry, but CA can have criminal jurisdiction outside of CA for acts committed by a person in a state even if the acts are legal in that state, if the acts are illegal in CA, cause harm in CA, and meet the CA statutory categories (i.e. crime starts in State A and finishes in CA or crime is aided and abbeted from a person in State A). See e.g. Hageseth v. Superior Court, 150 Cal. App. 4th 1399 (2007):

"The complaint is predicated on an investigative report of the Medical Board of California (Board) dated April 20, 2006, which the Board forwarded to the San Mateo County District Attorney as part of its referral of the case for criminal prosecution. The report states that, on or about June 11, 2005, John McKay, a resident of San Mateo County, initiated an online purchase of fluoxetine (generic Prozac) on “www.usanetrx.com,” an interactive Web site located outside of the United States. The questionnaire McKay received and returned online, which identified him as a resident of this state, was forwarded by operators of the Web site to JRB Health Solutions (JRB) for processing. JRB, which has its headquarters in Florida and operates a server in Texas, forwarded McKay's purchase request and questionnaire to petitioner, its “physician subcontractor,” who resided in Fort Collins, Colorado, and was then licensed to practice medicine in that state. 1 After reviewing McKay's answers to the questionnaire, 2 petitioner issued an online prescription of the requested medication and returned it to JRB's server in Texas. JRB then forwarded the prescription to the Gruich Pharmacy Shoppe in Biloxi, Mississippi, which filled the prescription and mailed the requested amount of fluoxetine to McKay at his California address. Several weeks later, intoxicated on alcohol and with a detectable amount of fluoxetine in his blood, McKay committed suicide by means of carbon monoxide poisoning. The Board's report indicates, and it is undisputed, that petitioner was at all material times located in Colorado and never directly communicated with anyone in California regarding the prescription. His communications were only with JRB, from whom he received McKay's online request for fluoxetine and questionnaire, and to whom he sent the prescription he issued."

"In short, it is not necessary to the 'detrimental effect' theory of extraterritorial jurisdiction that the defendant be physically present in this state during some portion of the time during which his alleged criminal act took place [] or that he act through an agent physically present in this state[], or that there exist a statute or judicially declared exception extending the state's territorial jurisdiction for the particular crime with which the defendant is charged []. Accordingly, in the circumstances of this case, jurisdiction is not precluded by petitioner's physical absence from the state and the fact he did not act through an agent located in California." (citations omitted).

This is ridiculous because you have a 14th amendment due process right to be subject to jurisdiction in other states only if you have minimum contacts, but they ignore that on the criminal side:

"Unlike civil actions, criminal proceedings cannot take place in the absence of the defendant, because the confrontation clause of the Sixth Amendment bars criminal default judgments. Because criminal cases are therefore 'not subject to the same flexibility enjoyed by the more elastic rules governing extraterritorial jurisdiction in civil cases' [], '[t]he rule is well-settled that civil ‘minimum contacts’ analysis has no place in determining whether a state may assert criminal personal jurisdiction over a foreign defendant.'" (citations omitted).

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 1:41 PM
Every round he sells across his counter could be used to "aid" in a crime in Ca.

You're right. That may be scary. But you are right. The only real issue is the substantive law (i.e. does he know this person is going to illegally use the bullet?).

odesskiy
02-06-2008, 2:38 PM
In this case the "crime" does not start in Nevada. There's absolutely nothing illegal about a California resident buying a normal-capacity magazine in Nevada. The crime only occurs when such California resident imports the normal-capacity magazine into California (crosses the border in posession of the magazine(assembled) in question). Your argument would have some merit if a dealer was malining assembled normal-capacity magazines to a purchaser in California. It could be construed that the dealer is aiding in comission of a crime.

I'm sorry, but CA can have criminal jurisdiction outside of CA for acts committed by a person in a state even if the acts are legal in that state, if the acts are illegal in CA, cause harm in CA, and meet the CA statutory categories (i.e. crime starts in State A and finishes in CA or crime is aided and abbeted from a person in State A). See e.g. Hageseth v. Superior Court, 150 Cal. App. 4th 1399 (2007):

"The complaint is predicated on an investigative report of the Medical Board of California (Board) dated April 20, 2006, which the Board forwarded to the San Mateo County District Attorney as part of its referral of the case for criminal prosecution. The report states that, on or about June 11, 2005, John McKay, a resident of San Mateo County, initiated an online purchase of fluoxetine (generic Prozac) on “www.usanetrx.com,” an interactive Web site located outside of the United States. The questionnaire McKay received and returned online, which identified him as a resident of this state, was forwarded by operators of the Web site to JRB Health Solutions (JRB) for processing. JRB, which has its headquarters in Florida and operates a server in Texas, forwarded McKay's purchase request and questionnaire to petitioner, its “physician subcontractor,” who resided in Fort Collins, Colorado, and was then licensed to practice medicine in that state. 1 After reviewing McKay's answers to the questionnaire, 2 petitioner issued an online prescription of the requested medication and returned it to JRB's server in Texas. JRB then forwarded the prescription to the Gruich Pharmacy Shoppe in Biloxi, Mississippi, which filled the prescription and mailed the requested amount of fluoxetine to McKay at his California address. Several weeks later, intoxicated on alcohol and with a detectable amount of fluoxetine in his blood, McKay committed suicide by means of carbon monoxide poisoning. The Board's report indicates, and it is undisputed, that petitioner was at all material times located in Colorado and never directly communicated with anyone in California regarding the prescription. His communications were only with JRB, from whom he received McKay's online request for fluoxetine and questionnaire, and to whom he sent the prescription he issued."

"In short, it is not necessary to the 'detrimental effect' theory of extraterritorial jurisdiction that the defendant be physically present in this state during some portion of the time during which his alleged criminal act took place [] or that he act through an agent physically present in this state[], or that there exist a statute or judicially declared exception extending the state's territorial jurisdiction for the particular crime with which the defendant is charged []. Accordingly, in the circumstances of this case, jurisdiction is not precluded by petitioner's physical absence from the state and the fact he did not act through an agent located in California." (citations omitted).

This is ridiculous because you have a 14th amendment due process right to be subject to jurisdiction in other states only if you have minimum contacts, but they ignore that on the criminal side:

"Unlike civil actions, criminal proceedings cannot take place in the absence of the defendant, because the confrontation clause of the Sixth Amendment bars criminal default judgments. Because criminal cases are therefore 'not subject to the same flexibility enjoyed by the more elastic rules governing extraterritorial jurisdiction in civil cases' [], '[t]he rule is well-settled that civil ‘minimum contacts’ analysis has no place in determining whether a state may assert criminal personal jurisdiction over a foreign defendant.'" (citations omitted).

battlehatch
02-06-2008, 3:01 PM
Your first mistake was going to The Gun Store. That place sucks and should be shut down due to stupidity. Unfortunately, stupidity in forms that do not physically harm other people is not illegal... yet. I vote with my wallet. They will never see a dime from me and I also make it my mission to spead the word at how terrible that place is. I was a NV resident and didn't get treated well there.

Your second mistake is asking for a "High Capacity" anything. That's an instant tell that you are a Kommiefornian. Just ask for a magazine. What we have in CA are "restricted capacity" mags what we can't have here are "standard capacity" mags. Remember, CA is the state that is different from the norm, we shouldn't accept what we live under as normal and standard. Hopefully one day, someone with some sense and power will fix this, but as long as the wicked witches from the east and west have their say, and we residents as a whole can't pull together and agree, then we just have to eat cake and load ten rounds at a time.

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 3:06 PM
In this case the "crime" does not start in Nevada. There's absolutely nothing illegal about a California resident buying a normal-capacity magazine in Nevada. The crime only occurs when such California resident imports the normal-capacity magazine into California (crosses the border in posession of the magazine(assembled) in question). Your argument would have some merit if a dealer was malining assembled normal-capacity magazines to a purchaser in California. It could be construed that the dealer is aiding in comission of a crime.

The theory with selling directly to a Californian in Nevada would be aiding and abetting an importation of a hi-cap magazine into California. On the issue of extraterritoriality, the fact it is legal in Nevada is irrelevant. The only issues for extraterritoriality are (other than the substantive law of aiding and abetting and the "large capacity magazine" statute) are: is it illegal in CA?, does it causes "detrimental effects" in CA?, and does it fit one of CA's criminal long arm statutes (e.g. 778b aiding and abetting from outside the state, 778 consummating crime within the state by agent)?

On the issues of aiding and abetting liability and importation liability, you are correct it is not per se illegal for a "California resident buying a normal-capacity magazine in Nevada." But it is illegal for that California resident to buy a "large-capacity magazine" in Nevada if that California resident has intent to import into California (it's 778a(a) consummation of an attempt to import to California). Similarly, if the Nevada person sells the "large-capacity magazine" in Nevada to a CA resident if: a) the CA person imports or attempts to import the large-capacity magazine to CA, b) the NV person knew that the perpetrator intended to commit the crime, c) before or during the commission of the crime, the NV person intended to aid and abet the perpetrator in committing the crime; and d) the NV person's words or conduct did in fact aid and abet the perpetrator's commission of the crime.

Someone aids and abets a crime if he or she knows of the perpetrator's unlawful purpose and he or she specifically intends to, and does in fact, aid, facilitate, promote, encourage, or instigate the perpetrator's commission of that crime.

Of course, you could argue that the NV seller did not intend to aid or abet or did not know the CA person would import. These are intent issues that will be proven or not-proven at trial after the NV person is arrested and held in CA. There is no summary judgment in criminal cases, so the only place you get to test the prosecutor's evidence is at trial.

That may sound improbable, but listen to this scenario:

Say CA prosecutor charges someone in CA for having imported a "large-capacity magazine"(probably along with drug crimes or a crime of violence). During plea bargaining, CA prosecutor says he wants to find out where the magazine came from. CA criminal offers to testify against NV store as part of plea bargain. CA prosecutor doesn't really care if the CA criminal is telling the truth or not, he just wants to get those "dangerous" things off the street. CA prosecutor brings charges against NV store owner, NV store owner gets arrested, brought to CA, eventually tried, and convicted when CA criminal says "Yea I told him I was going to bring it into CA."

This type of situation happens ALL THE TIME for other crimes. Juries aren't often smart enough to realize that people lie on stand for deals frequently and probably wont' care if he is telling the truth because they also want to get the "dangerous" things off the street.

If the NV seller was mailing them himself from NV to CA, he would be liable as a principal for importing into CA.

Paratus et Vigilans
02-06-2008, 3:20 PM
Without commenting on his business practices, since I have never been to his shop/range, the fact is that his lawyer in Nevada gave him good advice. The CA-DOJ reputedly threatened him with criminal prosecution in CA for a criminal conspiracy to import banned mags into CA. If he sells "banned" mags to a CA resident and he knows that customer has the intent to carry the banned mags back across the state line to CA and knows or should know that it's a crime to do that, then yeah, he's at risk for a criminal prosecuton in CA on the conspiracy charge. Call BS on it if you want . . . you know my practice is civil, not criminal, but even so, that's not a tough analysis to make. Take it FWIW.

On the other hand, if I as a NV landowner and part time resident of NV (as I am) wish to buy some standard cap mags from him to keep at my NV residence to use while I'm in NV, he's got no legal problem selling them to me (whether he would or not is a different issue). BUT . . . if I lie to him about intending to keep them in NV and instead have every intention of illegally importing them into CA, then he's at risk. The state has the burden of proof on that issue, but what does he have as cover to protect himself if I turn on him and say he knew I intended to bring them to CA because I told him so - - think that might happen in order to cut a deal with a CA DA so the DA can take down a vendor??? So, maybe he gets me to sign a doc saying I'm buying them to keep and use in NV and have no intent of importing them to CA. Maybe that helps him down the road. Then again, maybe he decides that the risk of dealing with me isn't worth the couple of bucks he'll make on the sale. Duh. How hard is that decision??

I don't blame him one bit for not selling the mags to me. If I were him, I wouldn't take the risk either. So hey, give him a break on that count.

odesskiy
02-06-2008, 3:21 PM
What you are saying makes sense. But by that logic, if I get busted for any crime, I could implicate ANYONE (inside or outside the state) by perjuring myself during plea bargain negotiations. I know it happens often enough, but it is impossible to safeguard against lying criminals.

We have to also consider the likelihood of something like this ever happening. When was the last time you've heard of anyone being prosecuted for importation of hi-cap magazines?

Paratus et Vigilans
02-06-2008, 3:33 PM
What you are saying makes sense. But by that logic, if I get busted for any crime, I could implicate ANYONE (inside or outside the state) by perjuring myself during plea bargain negotiations. I know it happens often enough, but it is impossible to safeguard against lying criminals.

We have to also consider the likelihood of something like this ever happening. When was the last time you've heard of anyone being prosecuted for importation of hi-cap magazines?

I hear what you're saying, loud and clear, but if I'm advising the guy, I have to look at what CAN happen, not what's LIKELY or NOT LIKELY to happen, and then I advise on that basis and let the business owner decide what course to take based on that business owner's personal level of risk aversion. On a scale of 1 to 10, it's a 1- that he might get prosecuted for it, but if he does, the harm of the felony charge is a 10+, so if the potential profit on the transaction is literally a buck or two, he'd have to be crazy to take the risk for $2.

That's the only way I know of to assess business risks and set your business policy accordingly.

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 3:45 PM
I hear what you're saying, loud and clear, but if I'm advising the guy, I have to look at what CAN happen, not what's LIKELY or NOT LIKELY to happen, and then I advise on that basis and let the business owner decide what course to take based on that business owner's personal level of risk aversion. On a scale of 1 to 10, it's a 1- that he might get prosecuted for it, but if he does, the harm of the felony charge is a 10+, so if the potential profit on the transaction is literally a buck or two, he'd have to be crazy to take the risk for $2.

That's the only way I know of to assess business risks and set your business policy accordingly.

Hand's formula has so many applications. :cool:

jkasandiego
02-06-2008, 3:56 PM
Your first mistake was going to The Gun Store. That place sucks and should be shut down due to stupidity. Unfortunately, stupidity in forms that do not physically harm other people is not illegal... yet. I vote with my wallet. They will never see a dime from me and I also make it my mission to spead the word at how terrible that place is. I was a NV resident and didn't get treated well there.

+1. Been to that place and won't be back.

KDOFisch
02-06-2008, 4:22 PM
We have to also consider the likelihood of something like this ever happening. When was the last time you've heard of anyone being prosecuted for importation of hi-cap magazines?

I've heard a few times of horror stories with CA residents buying at gunshows and being nailed across the border at Baker or something. Scary stuff. But as far as frequency, I sure don't know of any specific cases about it. Funny thing is that a friend of mine is stationed out there and occasionally drives out to SoCal for visits. One day he mentioned that he'd love to bring his USP-40 to try at some CA ranges. I instructed him not to bring a single 13-rounder with him when he did so. His face went white when I told him all about the hi-cap laws- he had no idea. Good thing I told him in NV.

Sorry about the off-topic post.

It's really nice to hear the perspective of a Gun Store employee. I've personally never visited the retail section so I don't even have a personal experience to post about. But one thing the owner mentioned was puzzling- is he implying that any restricted item is not for sale for CA residents, or any item at all?

Zhukov
02-06-2008, 4:44 PM
I didn't notice it being mentioned in earlier threads.

Could the gun shop have a waiver that is signed saying that the customer will not be importing the mag they buy into california and release the shop of liability?

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 6:00 PM
I didn't notice it being mentioned in earlier threads.

Could the gun shop have a waiver that is signed saying that the customer will not be importing the mag they buy into california and release the shop of liability?

A promise to not import into CA would help if the NV dealer was threatened with prosecution, but the buyer cannot release any liability other than the NV dealer's civil liability to the CA buyer. No criminal liability or 3rd party civil liability could be released in this way. The CA buyer could promise to indemnify, and pay for civil costs and costs of criminal prosecution, but good luck actually getting the money from them down the road when you need it.

pnkssbtz
02-06-2008, 6:19 PM
A promise to not import into CA would help if the NV dealer was threatened with prosecution, but the buyer cannot release any liability other than the NV dealer's civil liability to the CA buyer. No criminal liability or 3rd party civil liability could be released in this way. The CA buyer could promise to indemnify, and pay for civil costs and costs of criminal prosecution, but good luck actually getting the money from them down the road when you need it.

So... if I buy a sports car in Nevada that is not legal for sale in CA due to CARB regulations, and use it to race, drive fast (break laws) in CA, is the dealership that sold me the car in nevada an accomplice for the CARB violations?


HELL NO.


Hi-Cap mags are not illegal in nevada, period. There IS NO CRIME selling them IN Nevada.

Glock22Fan
02-06-2008, 6:22 PM
A promise to not import into CA would help if the NV dealer was threatened with prosecution, but the buyer cannot release any liability other than the NV dealer's civil liability to the CA buyer. No criminal liability or 3rd party civil liability could be released in this way. The CA buyer could promise to indemnify, and pay for civil costs and costs of criminal prosecution, but good luck actually getting the money from them down the road when you need it.

My suggestion was not so much a waiver, but a statement phrased something like:

"This store neither recommends or condones the import of banned items, such as large capacity magazines, into the state of California. By signing below, the purchaser acknowledges that he or she understands that banned items must not be imported into California, Massachusetts and any other such states, and undertakes that such items will be utilized entirely outside of California (Massachusetts et al)."

That should, in the absence of something like a tape recording where a store employee says something to the contrary, nip any conspiracy theory in the bud.

Of course, to be fair, they should also make their own residents, and everyone else, sign it. After all, they don't want to be accused of conspiracy if a Nevada resident crosses the state line with a 17 round magazine. In fact, that possibility makes the whole "we won't sell to Californians" look a bit silly.

NRAhighpowershooter
02-06-2008, 6:48 PM
simple solution.. simply disassemble the %^*^#$@!@ mags and sell them to the CA resident as parts.. THEN it becomes the CA resident buyer responsability to obey CA's laws................... DOH!!!!!!!!!!

mymonkeyman
02-06-2008, 6:57 PM
So... if I buy a sports car in Nevada that is not legal for sale in CA due to CARB regulations, and use it to race, drive fast (break laws) in CA, is the dealership that sold me the car in nevada an accomplice for the CARB violations?


HELL NO.


Hi-Cap mags are not illegal in nevada, period. There IS NO CRIME selling them IN Nevada.

You can ignore my prior posts all you want, but there is absolutely 100% clear law on these issues. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't mean that it isn't the law. State laws can be and are extraterritorial. Just because such prosecutions don't happen often doesn't mean they can't. All that there needs to be is a case that attracts a DA's attention (i.e. someone dies).

bwiese
02-06-2008, 9:07 PM
Monkeyman is absolutely right.

CARB has caused lotsa non-CA aftermarket folks trouble when they ship performance engine parts into CA that have not been tested/certified 'smog legal' in CA and have a CARB exemption #.

If those uncertified parts - or their advertising - don't contain one of 3 formal statements, "Not legal for sale or use in CA in pollution-controlled motor vehicles", "For off-road use only", and one other I forget, they can get in trouble/sued.

Tons of these folks have had to settle with CARB.

Yes, state laws can cross state lines.

Another related example is alcoholic bev companies shipping mail order into another state that prohibits it. These guys get in trouble too.

A lot of it has to do with the 'nexus' of the transaction; you can't just violate one state's laws while sitting in another state - the transaction kinda 'carries' your biz' presence into the other state.

Bruce
02-06-2008, 9:39 PM
Monkeyman is absolutely right.

CARB has caused lotsa non-CA aftermarket folks trouble when they ship performance engine parts into CA that have not been tested/certified 'smog legal' in CA and have a CARB exemption #.

If those uncertified parts - or their advertising - don't contain one of 3 formal statements, "Not legal for sale or use in CA in pollution-controlled motor vehicles", "For off-road use only", and one other I forget, they can get in trouble/sued.

Tons of these folks have had to settle with CARB.

Yes, state laws can cross state lines.

Another related example is alcoholic bev companies shipping mail order into another state that prohibits it. These guys get in trouble too.

A lot of it has to do with the 'nexus' of the transaction; you can't just violate one state's laws while sitting in another state - the transaction kinda 'carries' your biz' presence into the other state.

Whatever happened to Congress being the only ones able to regulate interstate commerce? Where the #@!* does the state of California get the to regulate interstate commerce? :mad:

dustoff31
02-06-2008, 9:51 PM
Whatever happened to Congress being the only ones able to regulate interstate commerce? Where the #@!* does the state of California get the to regulate interstate commerce? :mad:

They aren't regulating interstate commerce, they are being an enornous PITA. Such cases are civil lawsuits. And right or wrong, the business owner must answer them.

Would you take a chance on having to hire lawyers and travel to another state, likely on several different occasions, possibly having to close your shop while your are away, to answer some BS charge. All so you can make 10 bucks on a magazine?

bwiese
02-06-2008, 10:07 PM
Whatever happened to Congress being the only ones able to regulate interstate commerce? Where the #@!* does the state of California get the to regulate interstate commerce? :mad:

They aren't regulating interstate commerce - they're regulating what comes in their state.

ldivinag
02-06-2008, 10:40 PM
there's a place called CITADEL just across I-15 from the strip.

i talked to him last month. he tells me kalifornias buy high camp mags with CREDIT CARDS so when they ask for ID...

anyways, i told him that is it NOT ILLEGAL to buy mag parts to repair currently owned mags.

so they maybe selling parts these days...

Matt C
02-06-2008, 11:33 PM
there's a place called CITADEL just across I-15 from the strip.

i talked to him last month. he tells me kalifornias buy high camp mags with CREDIT CARDS so when they ask for ID...

anyways, i told him that is it NOT ILLEGAL to buy mag parts to repair currently owned mags.

so they maybe selling parts these days...

They are cool with CA stuff, they were at SHOT and I talked to them about it, not ant-burners.

Bruce
02-08-2008, 9:32 PM
They aren't regulating interstate commerce - they're regulating what comes in their state.


That's BS. If an item comes from out of state, it is travelling interstate to get here!

mymonkeyman
02-08-2008, 9:40 PM
Whatever happened to Congress being the only ones able to regulate interstate commerce? Where the #@!* does the state of California get the to regulate interstate commerce? :mad:

The Constitution grants power to Congress to regulate interstate, foreign, and Indian commerce, but the Constitution does not explicitly deny the states any such power. An implied limitation is read in via the so called "dormant commerce clause" doctrine, but that is only for essentially arbitrary discrimination against other states goods/services. Congress can override a state's laws/regulations through the supremacy clause, via, e.g. explicit preemption, but it rarely does. It certainly would be better if Congress came up with comprehensive, sensical gun laws and then said, all state laws regulating firearms are preempted. But they don't because that would piss off NY, CA, etc. The real oddity is that the due process clause limits states in their exercise of extraterritorial power in the civil context, but the criminal context has no comparable limitation.

yellowfin
02-09-2008, 1:09 AM
An implied limitation is read in via the so called "dormant commerce clause" doctrine, but that is only for essentially arbitrary discrimination against other states goods/services. Well, the CA/NY/IL/NJ/MA laws are about as clear as it gets on both criteria: arbitrary and discriminatory. It certainly would be better if Congress came up with comprehensive, sensical gun laws and then said, all state laws regulating firearms are preempted. They DO have one. It's called the 2nd Amendment. It's all that's ever been necessary. That means NO other laws. Period. Nada. Zilch. None. Nothing else is acceptable. Compromise at best, most realistically called sodomization, isn't "sensical." It's an abomination. Is someone smacking you in the kneecaps with a hammer for 10 minutes a day acceptable because it's "only" 10 minutes as opposed to 8 hours and you're used to it? But they don't because that would piss off NY, CA, etc. And exactly why should that matter? It didn't seem to bother them too much that most of the states don't like some of if not most of the laws they pass in the first place. I don't seem to see them have even the smallest nagging of conscience about embezzlement, fraud, extortion, bribery, and a host of other misdeeds which at very best we get an occasional newspaper article on the 10th page about...unless it's a Republican and naturally they're toast.

bob12368
02-09-2008, 6:55 AM
It is also illegal to gamble in CA, but you don't see the Vegas casinos telling people that can't gamble in their hotels because they have a CA license. I mean who knows, I might take my gambling winnings back to CA.

Max-the-Silent
02-09-2008, 7:08 AM
My .02

There are a slough of reasons why an out-of-state FFL holder would choose to comply with California state law wrt a non-registerable item, i.e. a standard cap magazine, or folding stock, etc.

It may be simple ignorance on their part, fear, a bias against Californians, whatever.

The bottom line is that it's their store or business, their license, their rules.

I would choose to not do business with them, and would support others that would make the same choice, but in today's climate against gun owners and gun dealers I understand their reticence to put themselves in a position where they could potentially face civil liability or criminal action.

Scotty
02-09-2008, 7:50 AM
It's not a matter of what is legal and what isn't legal. The CA DOJ and also other agencies can sue whoever they want whether they have a case or not. Regardless, you will need to hire a lawyer to represent you in court even if you know the case will get thrown out. That cost a lot of money which some stores cannot afford to spend. Most stores would rather lose the sale of a few thousand dollars then forking out tens of thousands to represent themselves in court.

Places like Cheaper than Dirt have counties where they won't sell to. I know of one county where they sold illegal items to a minor. The county DA threaten to prosecute them and gave them a choice, either stop selling in that county or see you in court.

This kind of stuff occurs in other industries also, where you can easily bankrupt a company by suing them whether or not you have a case.

stator
02-11-2008, 7:38 AM
That's BS. If an item comes from out of state, it is travelling interstate to get here!

True, I was wondering why he posted that without any qualifications.

The reason why CA can regulated interstate trade in this case are:

1- It is politically correct to ban guns with our federal circuit court system.
2- It applies equally to those manufacturers within the state.
3- They do not regulate private party interstate commerce.

Number #2 is getting sketchy because more firearm manufacturers within the state have been closing down in the last 30 years. So the imbalance of instate manufacturers and out of state manufacturers suggest that CA is unfairly regulating trade with the other 49 states for it's benefit.

You can see that this is simlar to cars, btw.

tcrpe
02-18-2008, 9:24 AM
. . . . . you have a valid reason for buying . . . . . .


Valid Reason?

Who determines what a valid reason is?

How about "just because I want it"?

Would that be a valid reason?

retired
02-19-2008, 12:38 AM
Not even touching the main issue; just mentioning my experience there back in the early 2000s.

I wanted to look at a Glock subcompact as I was interested in getting one for ccw after retirement. I had no intention of buying it, but wanted to see how it felt in my hand.

The guy asked where I was from and when I said Ca., he refused to take it out of the case and let me hold it. Said since he couldn't sell it to me as I wasn't a Nv. resident, he wasn't going to waste his time. At that time, they weren't real busy. He did say I could go over to the rental counter 15' away and handle one there. I thought that was kinda of rude and stupid, but I did so and was able to hold one.

I wanted to rent one of the full autos and when they found out I was lefty, they said all the brass would hit me in the face as they bounced off of the wall and they couldn't take the chance of me being hurt. They refused to rent to me.

I'll never return.

Bowser
02-25-2008, 9:01 PM
It seems like I might be going to Vegas for the weekend. Besides the gun store, what other places nearby can I shoot at?

jeep7081
11-06-2010, 10:21 AM
Machine Gun Kelly's on Sunset.

Sales without I/D check?

Lone_Gunman
11-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Jeebus. This thread is 4 years old.

glockman19
11-06-2010, 10:43 AM
THIS THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED...

The Gun Store will sell high capacity magazines. They will however require you to sign a release of liability.

If you intend to bring them into the state I suggest you dis-assemble them into rebuild kits.

jeep7081
11-06-2010, 10:53 AM
THIS THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED...

The Gun Store will sell high capacity magazines. They will however require you to sign a release of liability.

If you intend to bring them into the state I suggest you dis-assemble them into rebuild kits.

Thanks. Were planning on moving there, just not sure if it will be perm. Wife is going to transfer. Well see if we like Henderson, NV.

Thanks for the heads up!

Jeebus. This thread is 4 years old.

Some ##### to re-use a thread, then when we do, other #####. Geeez, are people that really un-happy they pick on people on a forum? I say "no hall monitors". :)

Thanks for the tips guys.

Cali-Shooter
11-06-2010, 11:33 AM
THIS THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED...

The Gun Store will sell high capacity magazines. They will however require you to sign a release of liability.

If you intend to bring them into the state I suggest you dis-assemble them into rebuild kits.

+1 on Updated Info. I was just about to go off on a tirade about boycotting TGS but you saved me from looking like a fool.

IMO, any gun store/business that insists on making store policy based off of FUD and or unnecessary restrictions based off of stupid gun laws should be boycotted, because there will always be other places to spend your money on. I guess to businesses like CTD or other anti-CA vendors, my money just isn't green enough ;)

vincewarde
11-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Midway also refuses to sell normal capacity mags to California residents, even if they have property out of state and the mags are shipped there. I have property in Idaho and could have had them shipped there, for use in Idaho. No go, no sales to California residents period.

jeep7081
11-06-2010, 11:38 AM
Midway also refuses to sell normal capacity mags to California residents, even if they have property out of state and the mags are shipped there. I have property in Idaho and could have had them shipped there, for use in Idaho. No go, no sales to California residents period.

How did they know if done online?

Cali-Shooter
11-06-2010, 11:39 AM
How did they know if done online?

Some places, such as CTD, refuse to ship CA restricted items like hi-caps if the BILLING ADDRESS is in a 'Ban' state, even if you intend to ship the restricted items somewhere else! Ridiculous BS.

jeep7081
11-06-2010, 11:41 AM
Some places, such as CTD, refuse to ship CA restricted items like hi-caps if the BILLING ADDRESS is in a 'Ban' state, even if you intend to ship the restricted items somewhere else! Ridiculous BS.

Sometimes the sale goes through with wrong billing address ;) It has happen to me.

Thanks for update though.

Cali-Shooter
11-06-2010, 11:46 AM
Love your Sig :thumbsup::30:

My wife sleeps better knowing we have a zombie killer... Saiga AK47! Although my neighbor with his AR has restless nights.

*Dons Flame Suit*

AK > AR

bandook
11-06-2010, 12:09 PM
Some places, such as CTD, refuse to ship CA restricted items like hi-caps if the BILLING ADDRESS is in a 'Ban' state, even if you intend to ship the restricted items somewhere else! Ridiculous BS.

A couple of options:

1. Call your credit card company and add the second address to the card. Usually, purchases with the 2nd address will be approved.

2. Change the address of one of your credit cards to your non-CA address and sign up for paperless/e-billing. Use this card for making free-state purchases.

jeep7081
11-06-2010, 12:21 PM
Love your Sig :thumbsup::30:



*Dons Flame Suit*

AK > AR

:D:cool:

Thanks

glockman19
11-06-2010, 12:26 PM
Midway also refuses to sell normal capacity mags to California residents, even if they have property out of state and the mags are shipped there. I have property in Idaho and could have had them shipped there, for use in Idaho. No go, no sales to California residents period.

MidwayUSA.com is following the law. It is ILLEGAL to import banned, HI-CAP (over 10 round) magazines.

Cali-Shooter
11-06-2010, 12:30 PM
MidwayUSA.com is following the law. It is ILLEGAL to import banned, HI-CAP (over 10 round) magazines.

You seem to have missed the point. It would not be illegal for a distributor to sell high capacity magazines and ship them to Idaho (a 'free' state compared to CA) despite the fact that the buyer is a CA resident, that's besides the point. The main issue here is that the distributor doesn't import them into CA. THAT would be illegal.

U2BassAce
11-06-2010, 2:37 PM
Had the guy in the original post showed he was going to be in NV for a 3-mo. internship, the outcome might have been different. you have a valid reason for buying - you will be there a while. the original situation, just blowing thru vegas like everybody else from CA, well, why do they want a hicap if it's not to bring home?

The OP said the guy stated he would be using them in Nevada. That should be enough. Now if he freely said he was bringing them back to California I totally understand their point.

As far as being in Texas I doubt he will have the same issue there. Probably the same for the majority of the gun stores in Nevada too. The Gunstore caters to tourists probably the majority of them from California. Sounds like they check IDs for all Hi-Cap purchases. Interesting behavior from a gunstore in a "free" state.

jeep7081
11-06-2010, 2:41 PM
You're fine in Texas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7FDTpzGvo&feature=related

Glock22Fan
11-06-2010, 4:57 PM
About a year ago they were asking to see driving licenses. The clerk then made Californian, Maryland (IIRC) and a couple of other states customers sign an agreement that they knew they couldn't and wouldn't take those mags back to their states. He loudly said, he didn't care what actually happened to the mags, as long as the store was covered by that release.

dieselpower
11-06-2010, 6:00 PM
About a year ago they were asking to see driving licenses. The clerk then made Californian, Maryland (IIRC) and a couple of other states customers sign an agreement that they knew they couldn't and wouldn't take those mags back to their states. He loudly said, he didn't care what actually happened to the mags, as long as the store was covered by that release.

and if that useless piece of paper makes them happy...fine, I'll sign it.

jeep7081
11-06-2010, 6:04 PM
and if that useless piece of paper makes them happy...fine, I'll sign it.

x2! Doubtful they even check i/d to signature. Just red tape so the owner sleeps better. It's all good if you can get them :cool:

winnre
11-06-2010, 6:04 PM
Imagine if the casinos said that they will not let people from California gamble because gambling is illegal in California! We have to sit back and just watch the others!

1lostinspace
11-06-2010, 6:06 PM
those guys are a bunch of jack *** mall ninjas! I have heard some of their stories.

QQQ
11-06-2010, 8:53 PM
Imagine if the casinos said that they will not let people from California gamble because gambling is illegal in California! We have to sit back and just watch the others!

This.

Gun stores shouldn't be selling FUD. Sure, a store owner has a right to be a butt. Doesn't mean it's the right thing.

frankm
11-06-2010, 10:13 PM
I'm checking them off my list for bulk buys next year. Also, I'm spreading the word. This gun store deserves zero Nevada business as well as Calif business.

Kharn
11-07-2010, 2:39 AM
Look at the crap Mayor Bloomberg's thugs pull on the East Coast for straw purchase investigations and then suing the owners that do not catch on to the sting. IIRC the DOJ goes as far as to tail people coming back from the Reno gun show so how hard is it to make the logical step to Bloomberg-style stings?

About a year ago they were asking to see driving licenses. The clerk then made Californian, Maryland (IIRC) and a couple of other states customers sign an agreement that they knew they couldn't and wouldn't take those mags back to their states. He loudly said, he didn't care what actually happened to the mags, as long as the store was covered by that release.MD residents can't transfer ownership of >20rd mags inside the state. But the legislature did not include a prohibition on possession of >20rd mags, or importation of magazines into the state. Gun stores in PA, VA, DE and WV know what you're looking to buy when they see the front MD license plate as you pull into their parking lot and they'll even joke with you about how dumb the law is.

Or I know a bunch of people that mail-order magazine rebuild kits, drive across the nearest state line and assemble the mags in the passenger seat of their car in the first available parking lot.

jaq
11-07-2010, 5:53 AM
necropost from hell.

Andy Taylor
11-07-2010, 6:26 AM
Saw a similar occurance in a gun store in Reno.

jeep7081
11-07-2010, 7:15 AM
Saw a similar occurance in a gun store in Reno.

That was? Rebuild kits or ?

Cali-Shooter
11-07-2010, 7:20 AM
necropost from hell.

...Yet here you are. Haha, just messing with you.
Yep, this thread is old, but someone zombied it, and many jumped on the bandwagon ever since.

jeep7081
11-07-2010, 7:24 AM
...Yet here you are. Haha, just messing with you.
Yep, this thread is old, but someone zombied it, and many jumped on the bandwagon ever since.

I found it on google to be honest, made the reply and noticed the date :p:D:cool: It's all good. Many are replying.

6114DAVE
11-07-2010, 8:04 AM
IBTD

6114DAVE
11-07-2010, 8:04 AM
In before thread death

dieselpower
11-07-2010, 8:26 AM
The thread is old...the problem is current. You will still find gun shops in AZ, NV and OR asking for ID before they will sell a magazine.

Merle
11-07-2010, 8:29 AM
Old thread, but how many people say "use the search button"?

rimfire78
11-07-2010, 8:41 AM
wes, how DARE you protect your business at the expense of my sense of self-righteousness.

if *I* want to tiptoe around the technical edges of a law, you should have to cooperate.

Tiptoe?
Is driving 54 mph in a 55 mph zone tiptoeing around the law?
How about a 10 round mag? If it fit one more round, it would be illegal in CA. - Is that tiptoeing too.
You haven't broken the law until you've broken the law. Get a grip dude!

themailman
11-07-2010, 2:34 PM
Im a CO resident living in CA. When Im back home, I buy hicaps and store them in my closet for that "rainy day", no one has ever ID'd me over magazines. I was buying hicaps at 16 for my Saiga AK47 my dad bought me back in 05. Unless youre buying with a card, an ID is not required by any law.

pitchbaby
11-07-2010, 3:27 PM
There is no law against buying magazines outside the state. You just cant import them into CA. I buy all kinds of magazines in NV and they get left at my buddies place in Carson.;)

I'm not an expert, but couldn't you just bring them home to CA if they are dismantled before you bring them over the border?

Cali-Shooter
11-07-2010, 3:54 PM
I'm not an expert, but couldn't you just bring them home to CA if they are dismantled before you bring them over the border?

Yes, but then they are no longer magazines. They are "rebuild kits," a.k.a., magazine parts. Which are legal to 'import.' Just don't assemble them in CA (into NEW magazines without rebuilding a pre-existing one).