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View Full Version : fixed mag kit vs. welded, safety


swift
03-30-2006, 8:36 PM
Someone speculated a few days ago that doj could require the mags to be welded to the lower. Recently I had a double-feed (due to insufficient lubricantion of the bolt carrier), and I tried to remedy the situation without removing the magazine. In my opinion, this was quite dangerous, and I resorted to removing the PG and then the magazine. It took some time, but the problem was solved safely.

Let's say the magazine was welded and, in the course of trying to push the second bullet back into the magazine, the spitzer tip hit the primer of the first round. I imagine this would be very hazardous. (If it isn't, please educate me.)

It would seem that having a magazine welded to the receiver would have made the rifle inherently unsafe. While I realize that government agencies sometimes seem to make illogical decisions, do you think that safety concerns may play a role in the decision-making process? For example, I'd rather see increased penalties for an unregistered AW than having to weld a magazine and make a potentially unsafe rifle.
Do you agree, or am I just in need of education?

blacklisted
03-30-2006, 8:38 PM
I think it's premature at this point to even consider welding a magazine to the receiver. Even the DoJ has not required that (Vulcan expoxies and pins magazines).

harley66
03-30-2006, 8:40 PM
Someone speculated a few days ago that doj could require the mags to be welded to the lower. Recently I had a double-feed (due to insufficient lubricantion of the bolt carrier), and I tried to remedy the situation without removing the magazine. In my opinion, this was quite dangerous, and I resorted to removing the PG and then the magazine. It took some time, but the problem was solved safely.

Let's say the magazine was welded and, in the course of trying to push the second bullet back into the magazine, the spitzer tip hit the primer of the first round. I imagine this would be very hazardous. (If it isn't, please educate me.)

It would seem that having a magazine welded to the receiver would have made the rifle inherently unsafe. While I realize that government agencies sometimes seem to make illogical decisions, do you think that safety concerns may play a role in the decision-making process? For example, I'd rather see increased penalties for an unregistered AW than having to weld a magazine and make a potentially unsafe rifle.
Do you agree, or am I just in need of education?


Rumors and What if's - stop biting on these... You will only drive yourself crazy......

C.G.
03-30-2006, 8:44 PM
Rumors and What if's - stop biting on these... You will only drive yourself crazy......

This is one of the better posts I've seen lately, and from someone who has not been around long.:)

blacklisted
03-30-2006, 8:45 PM
Rumors and What if's - stop biting on these... You will only drive yourself crazy......

Yes, and that's exactly what they want. The Feb 1st memo drove lots of people crazy.

ekimatuan
03-31-2006, 2:01 PM
I am working on a prototype of a replacement for the magazine baseplate that will allow you to empty the magazine without removing it. This will help to avoid safety issues such as have been mentioned here as well as aid in cleaning the rifle without first removing the pistol grip, etc.

When I have my prototype done, I will create a post with pictures to gauge interest to see if this is something I would want to produce. I will definitely be making some for myself and some friends.

The current design I envision would be a kit with the stamped metal baseplate and a roll pin. To install it, you drill three holes, one to act as a pivot the other two lock the baseplate in place on the magazine. To empty the mag, you pull the tab handle out and down. This unlocks the baseplate and allows the bullets, spring and follower to fall out.

As long as we are restricted to using these neutered guns, this seems like a safe and simple modification you can make to remain safe and within the law.

Surveyor
03-31-2006, 2:09 PM
I am working on a prototype of a replacement for the magazine baseplate that will allow you to empty the magazine without removing it.

If you build it, we will come...

Seriously though, look at Darins mag locks, build a quality product for a reasonable price and you'll have plenty of business.

grammaton76
03-31-2006, 2:22 PM
Let's say the magazine was welded and, in the course of trying to push the second bullet back into the magazine, the spitzer tip hit the primer of the first round. I imagine this would be very hazardous. (If it isn't, please educate me.)

As long as it's a low-speed impact, it probably wouldn't set off the primer. I realize it's possible that something COULD happen, but it'd be pretty improbable. Bear in mind that the firing pin is travelling at a fairly good speed when it's struck by that hammer, and the force is DIRECTLY applied against the center of the primer. A bullet attempting to double-feed would be a much slower impact, plus it would be going at an angle so basic physics says that a good chunk of the force would be wasted in vertical slippage and such.

So to sum it up, although it's theoretically possible, the chances are pretty remote of a double-feed causing a valid primer strike.

Personally I just use the charging handle and bolt catch to lock the bolt open, then fish around inside until I manage to shove the loose/partly-fed bullet back down into the mag, then grab the chambered round with the screwdriver blade on my leatherman (just make contact with the bullet's rim, you don't want to do nasty things with your chamber), and insert it back down into the mag unless the casing is dinged up.

Had a lot of those on my Stag M4gery before sending it back for factory repairs. It hasn't failed once since coming back!

swift
03-31-2006, 4:39 PM
As long as it's a low-speed impact, it probably wouldn't set off the primer. I realize it's possible that something COULD happen, but it'd be pretty improbable. Bear in mind that the firing pin is travelling at a fairly good speed when it's struck by that hammer, and the force is DIRECTLY applied against the center of the primer. A bullet attempting to double-feed would be a much slower impact, plus it would be going at an angle so basic physics says that a good chunk of the force would be wasted in vertical slippage and such.

So to sum it up, although it's theoretically possible, the chances are pretty remote of a double-feed causing a valid primer strike.

Personally I just use the charging handle and bolt catch to lock the bolt open, then fish around inside until I manage to shove the loose/partly-fed bullet back down into the mag, then grab the chambered round with the screwdriver blade on my leatherman (just make contact with the bullet's rim, you don't want to do nasty things with your chamber), and insert it back down into the mag unless the casing is dinged up.

Had a lot of those on my Stag M4gery before sending it back for factory repairs. It hasn't failed once since coming back!

Thanks, Grammaton, this is good to know. I'll give it a try next time.

blackrifle
03-31-2006, 5:09 PM
So to sum it up, although it's theoretically possible, the chances are pretty remote of a double-feed causing a valid primer strike.

If anyone is THAT worried about it, I would recommend you shoot NATO spec ammo. Military ammo uses "harder" primers. I've seen many primers that were lightly hit with a firing pin that did not ignite...

As a matter of fact, next time your at the range, point your AR down range and rack the charging handle back. Lock the bolt back and carefully DROP a round into your chamber. Make sure it's seated inside the chamber/barrel like it should be and now (again, while pointing the gun down range), release the bolt via the bolt catch and let it slam home.

Now turn your AR sideways with the ejection port facing downward and pull back in the charging handle...let the round fall and take a look at the primer...notice the light dent? Did it go off?

I've been shooting for a long time and I've NEVER seen or even heard of a primer ignition because of a double feed...