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View Full Version : Lead Free ammo...which do you use?


johnrunner89
06-14-2010, 8:29 PM
So what brand of lead free ammo do you use when in the infamous condor zone. I am in need of cheap .223 and possibly .308, suggestions and reviews will be appreciated. I currently have Remington Premier Green in .308, shoots low kinda.

johnrunner89
06-15-2010, 3:55 PM
:gene:

acourvil
06-15-2010, 4:08 PM
`As far as I can tell, if it is lead-free, it's not cheap. In .308, I've tried I've tried Cor-bon 140 grain and Federal 150 grain. The Cor-bon seems to shoot pretty close to the leaded stuff I use; the Federal seems to shoot low and to the left in my gun. I haven't used either enough to have a strong opinion.

BamBam-31
06-15-2010, 4:39 PM
I've used Barnes VG's on a coyote, and I had to shoot it more than once. V-max seems to have better terminal ballistics, IMHO, but the legislators, in all their infinite wisdom, have us using less effective (read: less humane) ammunition. :rolleyes:

Bobula
06-15-2010, 4:42 PM
I've been using barnes xxx for reloading on my .338wm

toby
06-15-2010, 4:43 PM
Be carefull whatever you choose and if you can make a quick follow up shot. I have used the Barnes triples and they went right through the pigs on the Tejon.

johnrunner89
06-15-2010, 5:00 PM
Thanks for the info guys, I think Im gunna try Winchester super x lead free in .223. I've seen it on sale for under $18 a box so that won't hurt my wallet as much as the Remington premier green.

Full Clip
06-15-2010, 5:01 PM
Yeah, been reloading using Barnes in 30-06, .223 and even .303 Brit. (Yeah, wanna take my #5 Enfield on a pig hunt.)

Fjold
06-15-2010, 5:37 PM
Johnrunner89 and Acourvil both of you mentioned that the factory ammo shoots low in your guns.

You do know that you have to adjust your sights/scopes for every different load that you shoot, don't you?

Very few guns, (like one in a million) will shoot different loads to the same point of impact. You need to find a load that shoots small groups in your gun and then adjust your sights/scope to move the center of that group (the point of impact) to match your point of aim.

BamBam-31
06-15-2010, 5:46 PM
^^^Listen to this man. :thumbsup:

Shoot-it
06-15-2010, 6:16 PM
I have found 2 loads that have the same POA in my 223.I reload so this might have helped they are 50 gr Vmax and 50 gr Varmint grenades (non lead) I had to down load the Vg's to get them to group well and they don't explode well on squirrels.

I want to try out some nosler Bt's lead free for the 223 if i can find some.

I have read a few hunting forums and people complain that factory copper ammo doesn't group well.I come to believe that factory is pushing them to fast.When I was reloading Nosler e-tips for my 270 I found that a medium load had the best groups and if I pushed close to max load the groups opened up like crazy.
Just sharing my experience

acourvil
06-15-2010, 7:29 PM
Johnrunner89 and Acourvil both of you mentioned that the factory ammo shoots low in your guns.

You do know that you have to adjust your sights/scopes for every different load that you shoot, don't you?

Very few guns, (like one in a million) will shoot different loads to the same point of impact. You need to find a load that shoots small groups in your gun and then adjust your sights/scope to move the center of that group (the point of impact) to match your point of aim.

I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious, so I was commenting on one advantage of a particular load over another. To restate that point, in my gun, the lead-free Cor-bon shoots very close to the same POI as the lead Hornady that I use when I'm not required to use lead-free. I'd rather make a small change to re-zero than a large change.

bruce_ventura
06-15-2010, 8:59 PM
I've been getting good groups using Barnes TSX in my .270 Win and .358 Win, and TSX and VGs in my .243 Win and .223 Rem. Gotta set the bullets about 0.050 off the lands. I never load my ammo hot - the extra ~50 fps doesn't make enough difference to me when hunting. I have a box each of .270 and .243 Federal Vital Shock using Barnes TSX bullets. The factory ammo is faster but not more accurate in my guns.

johnrunner89
06-15-2010, 11:01 PM
Johnrunner89 and Acourvil both of you mentioned that the factory ammo shoots low in your guns.

You do know that you have to adjust your sights/scopes for every different load that you shoot, don't you?

Very few guns, (like one in a million) will shoot different loads to the same point of impact. You need to find a load that shoots small groups in your gun and then adjust your sights/scope to move the center of that group (the point of impact) to match your point of aim.

Yup, I know I have to adjust my scope with different loads but I like (prefer might be a better word) ammo that has a similiar POI as other groups. Mainly so I can sight in my optic with cheap plinking ammo and just use my lead free ammo for hunting. I always do shoot a group though prior to see how it performs and make necessary adjustments. Lead free ammo gets expensive and I must admit I can get lazy sometimes :D But I've noticed with the Premier Green that it shot like 3"-4" lower than my POA. I thought that was kinda low since other ammo I've used grouped closer to my plinking ammo. But thanks for looking out.

I picked up a couple boxes of .223 55gr lead free Winchester 55gr this evening and will be trying it out this weekend. I'll let you guys know how it does on paper and game :)

Cire 5th
06-15-2010, 11:03 PM
What is the law regarding shooting on BLM land? I may have read some where that you can only use lead free ammo. Is this true?

paintballergb
06-15-2010, 11:14 PM
corbon dpx

acourvil
06-16-2010, 4:57 AM
What is the law regarding shooting on BLM land? I may have read some where that you can only use lead free ammo. Is this true?

Not currently. If you are in the condor zone, it needs to be lead free. I heard that there was a proposal to make all BLM land lead-free, but as far as I know, it has not happened.

mif_slim
06-16-2010, 7:43 AM
VG's for my 556. I've loaded 55gr, although their just as long as 75 lead bullets, they are pretty good. I can get sub-moa with them in my match rifle and I can get right about 1" MOA with my YHM upper with a 2moa scope cross hair. Not bad for unleaded.

Too Tall Tom
06-16-2010, 8:19 AM
Been using Barnes triple shock for A zone deer in my 270 short mag and all but one required follow up shots. These deer were hit in the chest and should have been DOA. I do my own processing and there were only small entry and exit wounds.

I hate the stuff but what can you do. The wardens in the A zone are in the field and are checking.

Good luck!

Fjold
06-16-2010, 8:26 AM
Johnrunner89 and Acourvil,

Whew! You guys had me worried for a while. Some of the people on here are very new to shooting and so I don't assume that everyone knows the basics anymore.

El Gato
06-16-2010, 8:26 AM
I've been to Thunder Ranch twice for rifle classes in the last year... have some left over .223 from Prescision now RWS...
works pretty well...
shoots pretty well...
not as well as the heavy TAP loads... but leadfree...
and frangible...and yes I know it wont frang in game... but for head shots on ground squirrels it is a bit cheaper...

http://www.rws-usa.com/rws_nontoxic_223308.php

FWIW....
I have a CZ 527 carbine in 7.62x39... shoot wolf hp rounds into tight 1 in clusters at 100 meters all day long... won't keep corbon dpx on a 4 in paper plate...CZ says the gun is designed to shoot the cheap surplus...and that it does wonderously...amazingly... unfortunately, I bought it to hunt with and it won't shoot dpx for squat... anyone tried the barnes MPG on game... could this be a coastal deer load?... broadsides only I presume...just trying to figure a way to hunt with this light little carbine that I really love to shoot...

Fjold
06-16-2010, 8:28 AM
Been using Barnes triple shock for A zone deer in my 270 short mag and all but one required follow up shots. These deer were hit in the chest and should have been DOA. I do my own processing and there were only small entry and exit wounds.

I hate the stuff but what can you do. The wardens in the A zone are in the field and are checking.

Good luck!

I've used the TSX in Africa and Wyoming for almost 10 years and only one animal required a second shot and that was my fault. I had my first shot hit a branch and deflect into the brisket of a Gemsbok.

Too Tall Tom
06-16-2010, 9:38 AM
Good for you. I've been hunting for 45 years. These A zone deer have a smaller chest cavity then mule deer and elk. A decent one may be 125 Lbs.
I skinned my bucks at a world class hunters ranch. He has over 200 mounts from all over the world and he said the same thing you did. He then went on to say after the animal was skinned, that the smaller animals we have here were different than what he had taken other places and the bullet went through them without releasing it's energy.

In never had that problem with lead bullets. This isn't just on deer I've taken I've heard this from numerous other hunters also.

I believe there will be a learning curve that ammo companies will have have to go through just like when switched from lead to non toxic shot for waterfowl.

I'm sure their willl be someting better in the future.

professionalcoyotehunter
06-16-2010, 9:44 AM
Barnes VG. One shot one kill on coyotes with it in my .223 but on pigs .30-06 Federal I cant say the same.

Rusty_Buckhorn
06-16-2010, 10:29 AM
I use the Barnes in my 7mm. Nothing has ran more than 50yds. Small holes, in and out so not a lot of blood, but nothing has ran off(4 deer, 6-8 hogs).

I've heard the horror stories of animals running off, but I haven't had any problems. I usually tell them to stop shooting things in the shoulder and start shooting things BEHIND the shoulder, where the vitals are, then you don't have to rely on bone fragments hitting vitals from a shoulder shot.

Bearclaw
06-17-2010, 5:47 PM
Be carefull whatever you choose and if you can make a quick follow up shot. I have used the Barnes triples and they went right through the pigs on the Tejon.

Try downsizing the bullet....if you normally shoot a 180 grain lead bullet for pig - try shooting a 165 grain lead free. This will usually give you about the same performance as the heavier lead bullet.

toby
06-17-2010, 5:56 PM
Try downsizing the bullet....if you normally shoot a 180 grain lead bullet for pig - try shooting a 165 grain lead free. This will usually give you about the same performance as the heavier lead bullet.

Yeah! Ive been told this I only shoot 150's in my 308. shot placement is critical with these bullets I am assuming?

Bearclaw
06-17-2010, 6:08 PM
The 150's will still do the job....But I'd like to know when shot placement ISN'T critical.

toby
06-17-2010, 6:25 PM
The 150's will still do the job....But I'd like to know when shot placement ISN'T critical.

HAHA! yeah guess your right, but when I aim at a pigs ribs right behind the shoulder or any game animal for that matter within 300 yrds I expect to see it go down with in a raesonable distance? the last pig I hit at least I'm 99% sure I hit it I mean damn I even had a dead fall for a rest every pig on the hill ran for cover I found no blood. and sure there is always the maybe I missed, but Ive not missed a shot as easy as this pig. next time I will be making a head shot for sure that is if it holds still long enough...lol

toby
06-17-2010, 6:30 PM
Hey while on the subject how many if any would be up for a Tejon pig hunt if 8 or more guy's go you get to use one of the cabins and the hunt is semi guided for those who may need it. the cost is $500-550 I think I can check on it again. Im thinking in a couple or a few months time you do have to reserve the cabin.

Bearclaw
06-18-2010, 11:25 AM
I don't know...I've heard from other calgunners that those Tejon hogs are farm raised and they are dang near tame. I forget who it was, but somebody on here even claimed that you could almost walk right up to them before you shoot them. Maybe FUD, maybe not...I don't know.

professionalcoyotehunter
06-18-2010, 12:07 PM
You must be mistaking Tejon with BHCR. Tejon is very hard to hunt and a huge landscape.

Bearclaw
06-18-2010, 2:36 PM
You must be mistaking Tejon with BHCR. Tejon is very hard to hunt and a huge landscape.

PCH....now that you mention it...you're right. I was thinking of Big Horn Canyon.

It's been a while since that thread.:kest: