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12voltguy
03-30-2006, 1:53 PM
been reading here and there a few months

if you have to do a fixed mag in an off list lower, why not just buy a ca leagal ar15?

if you can't run high cap mags, what is the point?

if they become on the list as aw, & you regester them, are they still required to be 10 round fixed mags or once that happens, they can now take preban 10+ mags?

C.G.
03-30-2006, 2:00 PM
Because and hopefully, the second part of your last question happens.

Hanniballs
03-30-2006, 2:02 PM
I should know better then to open threads with titles like these.

Yes its possible that after registration we might be able to drop the mags. Another reason is if you leave the state you can reconfigure your rifle to "free world" status.

grammaton76
03-30-2006, 2:03 PM
been reading here and there a few months

if you have to do a fixed mag in an off list lower, why not just buy a ca leagal ar15?

I'm running a CA-legal AR-15. I believe what you mean is CA-approved, as the off-list lowers are in fact CA-legal. Now, I prefer a fixed mag because it's reversible, FAR cheaper, and of course it doesn't hurt that the DOJ is irrirated that I own 10 of them.

Next up - other calibers. With a CA-approved design where you can't change the magazine that's installed in your AR, if you do a caliber conversion which requires a different magazine, you're stuck having to do a bunch of mods. In the end of all those mods, you functionally have altered your CA-approved design into a similar configuration to our off-list lowers, so what's the point?

if you can't run high cap mags, what is the point?

No one HAS to run a fixed mag, unless perhaps their upper has a permanent flash hider. Last night, my friend and I took our ARs to the range with SRBs installed. Both of us were using USGI 30rd mags that we've had since pre-2000.

if they become on the list as aw, & you regester them, are they still required to be 10 round fixed mags or once that happens, they can now take preban 10+ mags?

That's the big question. The DOJ says yes, you have to, but there are some signs that they're backing off on that. I personally will wait on restoring my AR to full-evil status until the courts have had it out on this matter, if the DOJ tries to enforce it during the registration process or whatnot.

Either way, I've still got a full-featured AR receiver which I've got before the federal ban comes in and prevents any of us, even free-staters, from owning AR's. I personally believe the federal ban WILL come again, sooner or later, and this next time it won't go away. It's just the direction our lame society is headed.

Jeff Rambo
03-30-2006, 2:04 PM
why not just buy a ca leagal ar15?


Because #1) they are overpriced and #2) they cannot be converted to "regular" configuration in the course of 3 minutes like an off-list lower configuration.

Surveyor
03-30-2006, 2:23 PM
Hello and welcome.

First read the CALIFORNIA AR/AK "SERIES" ASSAULT WEAPON page. There is a link in red in the upper right hand corner of your screen.
If you still have questions checkout the CA legal AR/AK forum.
Most of the relevant threads have a sticky so you can find them fast.
Or you can use the search feature.

Here's a few short answers in the meantime;

if you have to do a fixed mag in an off list lower, why not just buy a ca legal ar15?

Because the fab 10 will always be a fixed mag. Vulcans can be converted to run detachable mags but supposedly they're made very poorly.
However, if you buy an "offlister" you can legally, and temporarily fix the mag. This allows you to run a detachable mag in Nevada or Oregon etc...
Also, once they are registered we will probably be allowed to have detachable mags. The written law supports this, but the DOJ doesn't. My personal opinion is that we're gonna get our way, but we'll have to see what happens.

if you can't run high cap mags, what is the point?

Um, it's kid of like having a Corvette. Speed limit's 70, the car does 180.
Sometimes it's better to be able to use something in a limited capacity than not have it at all. Especially when their's a good chance the speed limit will be going waaaaaay up for you and your grandfathered "Corvette".

if they become on the list as aw, & you register them, are they still required to be 10 round fixed mags or once that happens, they can now take preban 10+ mags?

If we are able to use detachable mag's then yes, provided of course you brought them into CA before 2000.
You did stock up on hi-cap's before the ban, right?
(Remember, even though it's nearly impossible for the police to know when you bought your mag's, the penalty is very high for getting caught!)

I hope this helps, and be sure that you fully understand the legal technicalities regarding assembly. Good luck! :)

12voltguy
03-30-2006, 3:40 PM
Hello and welcome.

First read the CALIFORNIA AR/AK "SERIES" ASSAULT WEAPON page. There is a link in red in the upper right hand corner of your screen.
If you still have questions checkout the CA legal AR/AK forum.
Most of the relevant threads have a sticky so you can find them fast.
Or you can use the search feature.

Here's a few short answers in the meantime;



Because the fab 10 will always be a fixed mag. Vulcans can be converted to run detachable mags but supposedly they're made very poorly.
However, if you buy an "offlister" you can legally, and temporarily fix the mag. This allows you to run a detachable mag in Nevada or Oregon etc...
Also, once they are registered we will probably be allowed to have detachable mags. The written law supports this, but the DOJ doesn't. My personal opinion is that we're gonna get our way, but we'll have to see what happens.



Um, it's kid of like having a Corvette. Speed limit's 70, the car does 180.
Sometimes it's better to be able to use something in a limited capacity than not have it at all. Especially when their's a good chance the speed limit will be going waaaaaay up for you and your grandfathered "Corvette".



If we are able to use detachable mag's then yes, provided of course you brought them into CA before 2000.
You did stock up on hi-cap's before the ban, right?
(Remember, even though it's nearly impossible for the police to know when you bought your mag's, the penalty is very high for getting caught!)

I hope this helps, and be sure that you fully understand the legal technicalities regarding assembly. Good luck! :)


Thank You, that was extremely helpful:)

Yes I stocked up when I lived in PHX AZ back in the 90's

Should have stocked up on more guns:(


I swear I read all over & never came across a post as clear as yours.

No off to find the guys 4sale add on $99 lowers that had an FFL in SAC that will do the transfer. I assume the transfer is treated as if the lower is a rifle?

& thx to the others that replied with useful info too:)

shopkeep
03-30-2006, 4:32 PM
if you have to do a fixed mag in an off list lower, why not just buy a ca leagal ar15?


Fixed Mag designs like the FAB-10 will _NEVER_EVER_ be a real AR-15. Offlist rifles are only about 720 degrees away from a real AR-15 with an allen wrench.

blacklisted
03-30-2006, 4:47 PM
Thank You, that was extremely helpful:)

Yes I stocked up when I lived in PHX AZ back in the 90's

Should have stocked up on more guns:(


I swear I read all over & never came across a post as clear as yours.

No off to find the guys 4sale add on $99 lowers that had an FFL in SAC that will do the transfer. I assume the transfer is treated as if the lower is a rifle?

& thx to the others that replied with useful info too:)

Yes, the lower is treated as a normal long gun.

Surveyor
03-30-2006, 8:41 PM
Thank You, that was extremely helpful

Yes I stocked up when I lived in PHX AZ back in the 90's

Should have stocked up on more guns


I swear I read all over & never came across a post as clear as yours.

No off to find the guys 4sale add on $99 lowers that had an FFL in SAC that will do the transfer. I assume the transfer is treated as if the lower is a rifle?

& thx to the others that replied with useful info too

No problem. By the way, Sac. County is very anti-gun so use the utmost discretion on where you shoot your off-lister. I live in Placer Co. which is a pretty friendly place. It sounds like the DOJ want's to make examples out of people, so watch the gray area stuff untill we get a court decision. I'm not saying that you suggested any gray area stuff, but be careful just the same. ;)

Nak
03-30-2006, 10:01 PM
Went to two local FFL's today, they said they will not get an off the list lower. In fact I was told they are going to start arresting people within the following month when the rest of these recievers go "on the list".

Now, I took that with a grain of salt, being that nearly everyone and thier mother is going this route, also could be a salesman making it so his Carbon 15 is the only solution.

Anyone heard of this?

thmpr
03-30-2006, 10:05 PM
Went to two local FFL's today, they said they will not get an off the list lower. In fact I was told they are going to start arresting people within the following month when the rest of these recievers go "on the list".

Now, I took that with a grain of salt, being that nearly everyone and thier mother is going this route, also could be a salesman making it so his Carbon 15 is the only solution.

Anyone heard of this?

Norcal or Socal FFL? Which store? Sounds like their jerking everyone's chain on this one. Like you stated, everyone is going this route.

Nak
03-30-2006, 10:10 PM
SOCAL, Discount Gun Mart and Americah Shooting.

I know everyone is doing it, but is it really legal? The argument made against it is that the reciever at one point can accept a detachable mag, but, it also doesn't have a pistol grip yet, so...

blacklisted
03-30-2006, 10:15 PM
SOCAL, Discount Gun Mart and Americah Shooting.

I know everyone is doing it, but is it really legal? The argument made against it is that the reciever at one point can accept a detachable mag, but, it also doesn't have a pistol grip yet, so...

Yes, it cretainly is legal. Whoever said it is not legal is full of the stuff that comes out of the anal orifice. Now I have 2 more stores to add to my "idiot list".

This may sound harsh, but it is warranted. By saying that this is illegal and that people that buy them will be arrested (nevermind the pure idiocy of this statement due to the fact that there is a MANDATORY registration with a 90 day "amnesty" period) they are effectively calling ME and everyone else that got one of these a criminal. To them, I say "SCREW YOU!"

However, I don't add stores to my "idiot list" simply for not selling lowers. This is there choice, even though I strongly disagree. However, claiming that others that are selling or buying these are doing something illegal (especially when they are talking out of their ***) is unforgivable.

12voltguy
03-30-2006, 11:01 PM
No problem. By the way, Sac. County is very anti-gun so use the utmost discretion on where you shoot your off-lister. I live in Placer Co. which is a pretty friendly place. It sounds like the DOJ want's to make examples out of people, so watch the gray area stuff untill we get a court decision. I'm not saying that you suggested any gray area stuff, but be careful just the same. ;)

I hear ya.
I'm 80 miles north of sac, in the sticks easy to get CCWs ect, I won't even build an AR untill I can regester it as an AW, I won't do a thing with the lower but store it in my safe if I buy 1. Just bought 3 handguns in the last month, running low on $:D

Then again I don't want to miss the AR15 boat either:p

grammaton76
03-31-2006, 12:04 AM
For the record, Socal Gun is one of the most aggressively anti-off-list stores I've been to here in SD county. I inquired back in December about it, and they said the exact same thing about how the DOJ is going to hunt down and prosecute everyone who gets an off-list lower.

Most of the other stores say "eh, we won't deal in them because we don't want the harrassment". There's this one old guy at Socal likes to get in your face about it... he really gets worked up. :)

Then again, they do move a LOT of SU-16's through there.

ohsmily
03-31-2006, 12:40 AM
Went to two local FFL's today, they said they will not get an off the list lower. In fact I was told they are going to start arresting people within the following month when the rest of these recievers go "on the list".

Now, I took that with a grain of salt, being that nearly everyone and thier mother is going this route, also could be a salesman making it so his Carbon 15 is the only solution.

Anyone heard of this?

f--k them. Go to Royal Loan here in SD. They were doing lowers before. Unless they have changed policy, they are still going strong.

grammaton76
03-31-2006, 2:28 AM
f--k them. Go to Royal Loan here in SD. They were doing lowers before. Unless they have changed policy, they are still going strong.

As of a few days ago, the answer there is still yes - talked to them on the phone.

Ford8N
03-31-2006, 5:51 AM
Went to two local FFL's today, they said they will not get an off the list lower. In fact I was told they are going to start arresting people within the following month when the rest of these recievers go "on the list".

Now, I took that with a grain of salt, being that nearly everyone and thier mother is going this route, also could be a salesman making it so his Carbon 15 is the only solution.

Anyone heard of this?


Tell these two FFL's to go to the DOJ's web site and read what the DOJ said about "off list" receivers.

12voltguy
04-01-2006, 6:57 PM
ok I ordered up 1 STAG today at $99 from DD's ranch, he had 4 in stock & 30 on backorder for larger orders, Hope these work out to be on the list, then I can build what I want, otherwise it's fixed mag time I guess

Surveyor
04-01-2006, 11:29 PM
ok I ordered up 1 STAG today at $99 from DD's ranch, he had 4 in stock & 30 on backorder for larger orders, Hope these work out to be on the list, then I can build what I want, otherwise it's fixed mag time I guess

:D Tee hee, if Stags don't list, then nothing will!