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View Full Version : "All firearms MUST be registered."


wkd4496
06-14-2010, 7:48 PM
I was told by an LASD officer that all semi-automatics firearms need to be registered.
Then I was told by a few Westminster PD officers that ALL firearms need to be registered.

I believe long rifles(non-aw) and shotguns are not required to be registered, but they can be voluntarily.

Is there any documentation/P.C. that sheds light on this? All I was able to find was a F.A.Q from the CA DOJ website.

Havoc70
06-14-2010, 7:52 PM
They're wrong. Rifles (for now) don't need to be registered, nor do shotguns. AB 1810 seeks to change that, though.

wkd4496
06-14-2010, 7:54 PM
They're wrong. Rifles (for now) don't need to be registered, nor do shotguns. AB 1810 seeks to change that, though.

Exactly! I tried to politely explain that to them, but no luck...

Lone_Gunman
06-14-2010, 7:55 PM
Those cops are (currently) full of it. Hand guns now need to be registered but there are plenty of unregistered handguns in CA too since that wasn't always the case. Also there is legislation working its way through the lower intestine of CA (Scatramento) that would require all firearms to be registered at purchase but this is not currently the case and it would not AFAIK be retroactive.

Fjold
06-14-2010, 7:56 PM
There is no shortage of stupid.

Joe
06-14-2010, 7:56 PM
The above posters are correct.

Also, only newly purchased handguns need to be registered. There are plenty of semiauto handguns purchased before the law went into effect that are not registered.

ojisan
06-14-2010, 7:59 PM
Only handgun purchases through a dealer are recorded by serial number in your name.
There is a background check on you for long guns but currently no record of the serial number or in your name is kept.
"Assault Weapons" from the ban days are the only long guns requiring registration in your name, but these can't be registered anymore.
Unregistered firearms from back in the day when face-to-face sales were legal do not have to be registered, however, if you are caught carrying a concealed loaded handgun that is not in your name, it is a felony as opposed to a misdemeanor if it is registered in your name.

There are several overlapping laws on this, you will have to read them all, state and federal.

stix213
06-14-2010, 8:00 PM
I think you are looking for penal code 12072, which talks about reporting handguns. You aren't going to find anywhere in law that you don't have to report long guns, but you won't find anywhere in law that you do have to (except AWs).

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12072.html

Even then, I believe if you owned a handgun before mandatory registration went into effect you don't even need to have it registered today, only if you do another transfer or move into the state, etc.

BroncoBob
06-14-2010, 8:01 PM
There is no shortage of stupid.

Just my thoughts also. If you only heard all the stupid I hear

wkd4496
06-14-2010, 8:02 PM
I think you are looking for penal code 12072, which talks about reporting handguns. You aren't going to find anywhere in law that you don't have to report long guns, but you won't find anywhere in law that you do have to (except AWs).

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12072.html


Which is very unfortunate.. : -/

bigstick61
06-14-2010, 8:13 PM
Most cops I've talked to in CA wher ethis sort of discussion has coe up and who are not into guns (and even a few that are) seem to think this. Seems pretty widespread. Heck, plenty of non-LEO gun owners think this, too, especially older ones for some reason (40s through 60s). I'm not sure exactly where this comes from.

taperxz
06-14-2010, 8:14 PM
Tell them to look up a rifle and find the reg for it;)

Malthusian
06-14-2010, 8:23 PM
There are many posts about handguns (per this thread lets say they are semi auto)
and people asking about voluntarily registering them as they were purchased before CA handgun registration went into effect. The majority of the replies strongly urge the owner "not to" as it is "not" required

Only new purchases and PPT transfers are currently entered into the California system.

calnurse
06-14-2010, 8:24 PM
tell them all donuts must be registered as well!!!!

wkd4496
06-14-2010, 8:36 PM
tell them all donuts must be registered as well!!!!

LOL..



But in all seriousness, its a bummer because I was once almost arrested because the deputy was convinced that semi-autos needed to be registered.

chris
06-14-2010, 8:39 PM
There is no shortage of stupid.

california legislature shows that there never will be a shortage of stupid from them to the electorate that puts them in office year after year.

thayne
06-14-2010, 8:53 PM
when did the handgun registration law go into effect?

dantodd
06-14-2010, 9:13 PM
LOL..



But in all seriousness, its a bummer because I was once almost arrested because the deputy was convinced that semi-autos needed to be registered.

It's hard to arrest someone when you don't know the PC on which to book them. I suspect that the deputy would have arrested you but learned something about the law over the radio while you were sitting on the curb.

bodger
06-14-2010, 9:25 PM
I have ceased to care what LEOs think they know when it comes to gun laws.
I follow CG closely, know what I have and what I do is legal, and I don't answer questions. And I have the right lawyer on my speed dial and his card in my wallet.

It's a lost cause, especially where EBRs are concerned. They either know or they don't. I think a lot of LEOs are just as bad as the gun shop FUDsters.

lead slinger
06-14-2010, 9:27 PM
tell them all donuts must be registered as well!!!!

I see them every morning checking for registrations on the Jelly filled...

Librarian
06-14-2010, 10:16 PM
when did the handgun registration law go into effect?

WHICH handgun registration (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_registration) law?

California does not have a registration law that applies to all handguns.

It has a law that requires FFLs to report handgun transfers to the DOJ - it's had that since 1924 (when it applied to gun dealers, since FFLs didn't exist until 1968).

It has a law that most handgun transfers must go through an FFL, thus being registered. (1991)

It has a law requiring transfers between some family members to be registered via a mail-in form. (1992?3?)

It has a law that requires people who move here from out of state to register their handguns via a mail-in form(1998).

It has a law that C&R license-holders must register the handguns they buy out of CA after they bring them back to CA. (?)

But there is no law that requires that every handgun must be registered.

Time Line of California Firearms Laws (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Time_Line_of_California_Firearms_Laws)

thayne
06-14-2010, 10:35 PM
Im just wondering what the status on mine would be. I bought it in the early 90's I think 92 or 93 new from a gun store. So i guess that means its registered

Crom
06-14-2010, 10:43 PM
Im just wondering what the status on mine would be. I bought it in the early 90's I think 92 or 93 new from a gun store. So i guess that means its registered

Easy if you want to know for sure. Fill out this form and the DOJ will tell you what they know about your guns.

Automated Firearms System (AFS) Records Request Form (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AFSPrivateCitizen.pdf)http://ag.ca.gov/images/pdficon.gif [PDF 21 kb / 1 pg]

juicemansam
06-14-2010, 11:43 PM
This whole registration issue reminds me of a video where John Harris talked about registration. Where registration is transfer of ownership. He gave an example where in the UK a family had their children taken away by their CPS equivalent, only to have one child brought back because he/she wasn't registered with the state. Their reasoning for bringing back the child was that he/she wasn't owned by the state, ie no paperwork, and therefore could not be "legally" taken.

The child part is at 6 minutes in. But at 30 seconds in, listen to what he says about laws. What he says is exactly what an entity (be it government, or a union, or whatever) that has gained it's own life would do to preserve itself.
DPN29z7VLMg

abusalim81
06-15-2010, 1:02 AM
Half the cops out there don't know the laws they are trying to enforce and the other half know but lie to intimidate!

CalNRA
06-15-2010, 5:59 AM
at a public range I was once asked by a patrolman if I had a permit for my Remington 870(with wood furniture) with an 18.5 inch barrel. He thought it was a "sawed off shotgun" and only the police could have anything that short. I had to explain to him the basics of the NFA and rules on shotgun barrels.

I was very concerned for the next guy he meets who was anything less than totally polite.

calnurse
06-15-2010, 6:15 AM
Half the cops out there don't know the laws they are trying to enforce and the other half know but lie to intimidate!

Yes sir!!!:43:

Big Jake
06-15-2010, 6:50 AM
The above posters are correct.

Also, only newly purchased handguns need to be registered. There are plenty of semiauto handguns purchased before the law went into effect that are not registered.

This would be difficult (If not impossible!) to enforce since the state has no idea how many unregistered guns there are out there. Unless every owner of a handgun that is unregistered comes forward to register them (Highly unlikely!) then this law is impossible to enforce with the exception of newly purchased handguns! :rolleyes:

BoxesOfLiberty
06-15-2010, 7:50 AM
WHICH handgun registration (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_registration) law?

California does not have a registration law that applies to all handguns.

It has a law that requires FFLs to report handgun transfers to the DOJ - it's had that since 1924 (when it applied to gun dealers, since FFLs didn't exist until 1968).

It has a law that most handgun transfers must go through an FFL, thus being registered. (1991)

It has a law requiring transfers between some family members to be registered via a mail-in form. (1992?3?)

It has a law that requires people who move here from out of state to register their handguns via a mail-in form(1998).

It has a law that C&R license-holders must register the handguns they buy out of CA after they bring them back to CA. (?)

But there is no law that requires that every handgun must be registered.

Time Line of California Firearms Laws (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Time_Line_of_California_Firearms_Laws)


By mandatory registration, are we just talking about the DROS?

CSACANNONEER
06-15-2010, 8:10 AM
I have a newly manufactured, (now)semi-auto handgun in California. It is not registered and does not even have a serial number. It is perfectly legal. If it wasn't, I would not have it nor would I be posting about it. The facts are: I manufactured it as a California legal single shot target pistol. I later converted it to a California legal semi-auto. There are no federal or state requirements to register or even put markings on a firearm until it is transfered.

Sniper3142
06-15-2010, 8:26 AM
There is no shortage of stupid.

+100 to this!

Half the cops out there don't know the laws they are trying to enforce and the other half know but lie to intimidate!

I love running into the half that try to intimidate. That never works on me unless they are from the planet Krypton. :)

cdtx2001
06-15-2010, 10:39 AM
I love running into the half that try to intimidate. That never works on me unless they are from the planet Krypton. :)

Your mind powers will not work on me!

Librarian
06-15-2010, 10:47 AM
By mandatory registration, are we just talking about the DROS?

DROS plus all the mail-ins; remember those all apply to a transfer or a change in status (import I think is the only one) - a handgun has to have experienced one of those 'events' within the relevant time periods in order that anyone could expect it to be registered. No timely event, registration not required.

Sniper3142
06-15-2010, 3:46 PM
Your mind powers will not work on me!

"These aren't the droids you're looking for..." ;)

http://bloodylot.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/droids-we-were-looking-for1.jpg

M1A Rifleman
06-15-2010, 4:24 PM
Lesson #1 is to believe little what LEO's have to say about guns, as you will get their opinion and wishes before the truth. An example was in 1990 when a Santa Cruz County Sherrif told me the M1A was required to be reg as an AW. in 1990, this was BS, it may have been his wish, but more likely is he did not know what is/was an AW, so the safe answer is yes. Best advise is to educate your self by reading, don't ask an LEO anything gun related - my opinion.

NorCalMama
06-15-2010, 4:33 PM
I was told by an LASD officer that all semi-automatics firearms need to be registered.
Then I was told by a few Westminster PD officers that ALL firearms need to be registered.

I believe long rifles(non-aw) and shotguns are not required to be registered, but they can be voluntarily.

Is there any documentation/P.C. that sheds light on this? All I was able to find was a F.A.Q from the CA DOJ website.

lol, and I was told by someone who works at the DOJ BOF that you can only purchase one longgun per 30 24 hour period. And that same person informed me that AR's aren't legal cause they're assault weapons... eh hem, yeah, so the moral of this story is don't listen to the very people you should be able to trust. :rolleyes:

Gray Peterson
06-15-2010, 5:28 PM
Funny story. A couple of counties require that in order to put guns on your CCW permit, your gun must be registered to the state DOJ, so they require you to do the VOLREG process.

Except there's two problems with this:

1) Since this is an additional fee, under PC12054(d), this is an unlawful condition.

2) This violate GC 53071, which states:

53071. It is the intention of the Legislature to occupy the whole field of regulation of the registration or licensing of commercially manufactured firearms as encompassed by the provisions of the Penal Code, and such provisions shall be exclusive of all local regulations, relating to registration or licensing of commercially manufactured firearms, by any political subdivision as defined in Section 1721 of the Labor Code.

Political subdivision=county/city. All local regulations include both requirements for all residents to register their guns with DOJ, or those with CCW's as a condition of licensing of their gun for CCW.

thayne
06-15-2010, 5:37 PM
Lesson #1 is to believe little what LEO's have to say about guns, as you will get their opinion and wishes before the truth. An example was in 1990 when a Santa Cruz County Sherrif told me the M1A was required to be reg as an AW. in 1990, this was BS, it may have been his wish, but more likely is he did not know what is/was an AW, so the safe answer is yes. Best advise is to educate your self by reading, don't ask an LEO anything gun related - my opinion.
I have a LEO friend who thought it was illegal to buy an air rifle online. When i told him I bought an airforce Talon SS he asked me how did you get them to ship it to you? LOL Since I educated him he's gone out and bought one too.

Dr.Lou
06-15-2010, 5:45 PM
Most cops are not gun nuts and don't know much about many laws pertaining to firearm purchases, registration, etc. Moreover, with CA's gun laws changing so frequently, it's tough for even the cops that appreciate firearms to keep up.

The average street cop only deals with a handful of firearms violations, e.g., 417, 246.3, 12020, 12021, 12025, 12031 and perhaps a couple others.

creekside
06-15-2010, 6:25 PM
The ignorance of police patrol officers with respect to the firearms laws must be seen to be believed. I have heard at various times:

"You can't have more than three guns in your car." (Hey, I've heard of underground regulation, but underground legislation???)

"You can't own more than X guns at a time." (Ditto.)

"You must keep your ammo in a separate locked case." (Misunderstanding of the Federal interstate travel exemption.)

"It is unlawful to openly wear a loaded firearm, wearing a proper uniform, while traveling to your security job in which you carry a loaded firearm, with ID and all your permits in your possession, one of which states on its face the words 'FIREARMS PERMIT.'" (I have heard this one with respect to walking, on the bus, driving a motorcycle and driving a car. What next? Bicycle? Muleback? Hot air balloon?)

"You can't have that handgun in a locked case in your vehicle unless you are traveling between two permitted places, no stops allowed." (12026.1 is not 12026.2)

"You can't have that long gun in a locked case in your vehicle unless you are traveling between two permitted places, no stops allowed." (Could you please show me the code section on that one, officer?)

"The folding stock and pistol grip on your pump action shotgun make it an illegal assault weapon." (Long discussion of pump action vs. semiautomatic followed . . .)

"You can't carry pepper spray in your vehicle if it is in reach of the driver when you are pulled over." (. . .)

It would be awfully nice if CG or some other reputable organization could set up classes to teach firearms law to police, because I'm awfully sick of doing so at the side of the road at inconvenient times which are not in any way compensated.

Malthusian
06-15-2010, 6:45 PM
All of these references are pertinent to the CA state registration requirements

The Federal registration in effect since 1968, is in a central Federal database, available to local LEA's

I read on another thread, I believe posted by a LEO that he could bring up handguns registered to any particular person in a matter of 10 minutes

Do LEA's have this access?

Do they refer it over to the ATF

I have not seen allot of discussion on the Federal system.

Mssr. Eleganté
06-15-2010, 8:45 PM
All of these references are pertinent to the CA state registration requirements

The Federal registration in effect since 1968, is in a central Federal database, available to local LEA's

I read on another thread, I believe posted by a LEO that he could bring up handguns registered to any particular person in a matter of 10 minutes

Do LEA's have this access?

Do they refer it over to the ATF

I have not seen allot of discussion on the Federal system.

There's not a lot of discussion on the Central Federal Database because it doesn't exist. It is a violation of Federal law for the Feds to maintain a firearms registration database.

FFLs have been required, since 1968, to keep a record of all firearms transactions they make, but they keep these records at their licensed premises and can throw them away after a record is 20 years old. The vast majority are not even computerized.

For BATFE to compile a list of your firearms they would have to visit every single FFL in the country and look through all of their records, searching for your name. It would cost several million dollars and take a couple of years to compile a list of the firearms that just one person purchased through FFLs. They still would have no record of the firearms that that person acquired without the use of an FFL.

Cokebottle
06-15-2010, 8:49 PM
By mandatory registration, are we just talking about the DROS?
Exactly.
They must be registered at the time of purchase or transfer.
This is "ensured" through the requirement to run any purchase or transfer through an FFL, who will process a DROS, which registers the gun.

But even today, you can BUILD a handgun, so long as it is built in a roster-exempt form (can be later modified), and there is no requirement to register it unless or until you sell it.

Pavel
06-16-2010, 1:16 AM
So how is AB1810 going to affect curio & relic long guns?

bwiese
06-16-2010, 1:19 AM
So how is AB1810 going to affect curio & relic long guns?

Who knows? It could still be edited at the last minute.

Here's hoping the state stays broke enough not to be able to implement such a system.

Malthusian
06-16-2010, 1:45 AM
There's not a lot of discussion on the Central Federal Database because it doesn't exist. It is a violation of Federal law for the Feds to maintain a firearms registration database.

FFLs have been required, since 1968, to keep a record of all firearms transactions they make, but they keep these records at their licensed premises and can throw them away after a record is 20 years old. The vast majority are not even computerized.

For BATFE to compile a list of your firearms they would have to visit every single FFL in the country and look through all of their records, searching for your name. It would cost several million dollars and take a couple of years to compile a list of the firearms that just one person purchased through FFLs. They still would have no record of the firearms that that person acquired without the use of an FFL.


This is more than an adventure. It is a quest for knowledge
Thanks for clearing that up

Omil
06-16-2010, 2:33 AM
There is no shortage of stupid.

+1 and it's also FULL of IT!:43: