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View Full Version : Travelling to Cali from Fl by Road with Assault weapon/pistols


livilops
06-14-2010, 6:56 PM
I have some simple questions and I'd be really grateful if anyone can help me understand the laws.

In 2 weeks I am moving from Florida to California and here in Florida I own a Sig-Saur 556 rifle which I know is not legal as it stands and I also own a Sig 9mm pistol, a S&W .38 special and a shotgun.

i) Is it legal to transport all of that from Florida into California via road ? Provided everything is in padlocked boxes, unloaded and ammo is in separate locked compartment.

ii) I understand I can modify my Sig 556 to make it legal in California by using a Prince 50 magazine lock - my question is should I do this before entering the State or is it OK to do it once I am in my new home ?

iii) Once the rifle is modified can I then just bring it to my nearest shooting club in Cali and start to shoot with it without fear of breaking any laws and upsetting law enforecement ?

iv) With respect to my pistols - is it legal to bring those in ? Do I have to apply for a licence or some form of owner registration certificate for each gun before I bring them in or can I wait until I am in Cali and then apply ?

I have no criminal background and hold a Florida CCW permit although I know there is no reciprocity with Cali.

Apologies for the very basic questions but if anyoe can help Id be really appreciative otherwise I have to seel it all as I dont want to break any laws in the State I am about to make my new home !

Thanks

Dr Rockso
06-14-2010, 7:03 PM
I have some simple questions and I'd be really grateful if anyone can help me understand the laws.

In 2 weeks I am moving from Florida to California and here in Florida I own a Sig-Saur 556 rifle which I know is not legal as it stands and I also own a Sig 9mm pistol, a S&W .38 special and a shotgun.

i) Is it legal to transport all of that from Florida into California via road ? Provided everything is in padlocked boxes, unloaded and ammo is in separate locked compartment.
Per state law handguns must be in a locked container and all firearms must be unloaded. Federal law requires all firearms within 1k feet of a school to be in a locked container and unloaded. It is not illegal to have ammo in the same container as the firearms.

ii) I understand I can modify my Sig 556 to make it legal in California by using a Prince 50 magazine lock - my question is should I do this before entering the State or is it OK to do it once I am in my new home ?
Do it before entering CA.

iii) Once the rifle is modified can I then just bring it to my nearest shooting club in Cali and start to shoot with it without fear of breaking any laws and upsetting law enforecement ?
Typically yes, although there are some ranges that still aren't OLL friendly. Best resource is to check here.

iv) With respect to my pistols - is it legal to bring those in ? Do I have to apply for a licence or some form of owner registration certificate for each gun before I bring them in or can I wait until I am in Cali and then apply ?
No permit required, though you do have to send in a form (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf) with $19 per handgun. Make sure none of your pistols have threaded barrels as that would make them AWs under CA law.

One more tip...once you move here you will only be able to buy rostered handguns (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/) directly from dealers. If you are considering any handguns that are not on the roster you should buy them now, as it is perfectly legal to import them. Furthermore you may sell them via a private party transfer to anyone, and as such they command a premium (since that is the only way for an ordinary Californian to obtain these off-roster handguns).

dantodd
06-14-2010, 7:05 PM
i) you cannot transport the 556 into the state of California in its current configuration. The handguns should be fine.

ii) you must modify before entering the state. "The Right People" recommend a bulet button rather than a "screw-in" type prince 50.

iii) Yes. You must only use magazines with no greater than 10 rd. capacity.

iv) no pre-registration required for pistols. You will need to submit a "New Resident Handgun Ownership Report" when you get here. The form is here: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf

Also, it is a felony to import magazines of greater than 10 rd. capacity. This means you'll have to dump all your "large capacity" magazines. Alternatively you can permanently modify the magazines to accept no more than 10rds. or you can disassemble them and store them until the laws change. Hopefully within 3-5 years.

livilops
06-14-2010, 8:05 PM
Many thanks for the fast and detailed answers - so in effect what makes my Sig 556 illegal is simply the magazine capacity ? Is that about the sum total of the issue ? So as a quick fix I can bring in the 556 with just no magazines and I should be Ok ? And then when I am settled in and have the time I can source magazines of under 10 rnds and Im good to go ? Also, I can see I have to complete a form for the hand guns .. but is there no form for the rifle or shotgun ? I can just bring them both in without needing any paperwork to be completed ?

Thanks again !

Turo
06-14-2010, 8:24 PM
Many thanks for the fast and detailed answers - so in effect what makes my Sig 556 illegal is simply the magazine capacity ? Is that about the sum total of the issue ? So as a quick fix I can bring in the 556 with just no magazines and I should be Ok ? And then when I am settled in and have the time I can source magazines of under 10 rnds and Im good to go ? Also, I can see I have to complete a form for the hand guns .. but is there no form for the rifle or shotgun ? I can just bring them both in without needing any paperwork to be completed ?

Thanks again !

No, the issue CA law has with your Sig 556 is that it has the "capacity to accept detachable magazines" and has one or more of the "evil features" listed in the penal code. When you put a bullet button, or other magazine lock on the rifle, it no longer has the ability to accept detachable magazines, and then no longer falls under that law.

The "high capacity" magazine law is a different law altogether. It says you may not sell, advertise for sale, import, or manufacture any magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

So you may bring your rifle into the state, provided it doesn't have the ability to accept detachable magazines, and you may bring into the state any magazine that doesn't hold more than 10 rounds.

Welcome to gun hell.

alex00
06-14-2010, 8:27 PM
Many thanks for the fast and detailed answers - so in effect what makes my Sig 556 illegal is simply the magazine capacity ? Is that about the sum total of the issue ? So as a quick fix I can bring in the 556 with just no magazines and I should be Ok ? And then when I am settled in and have the time I can source magazines of under 10 rnds and Im good to go ? Also, I can see I have to complete a form for the hand guns .. but is there no form for the rifle or shotgun ? I can just bring them both in without needing any paperwork to be completed ?

Thanks again !

Here is a snip from the law PC 12276.1 found here (http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/12275-12278.html).

The bolded areas are what most likely will cause you trouble with your 556 if left stock. The Bullet Button renders the firearm California compliant by removing the controlling feature of having a detachable magazine. If the magazine is no longer detachable, the evil features listed below are allowed on the rifle. The code defining what a detachable magazine is states roughly that if you have to use a tool to remove the magazine, it is not detachable.

Magazine capacity is a wholly separate issue. When you attach a Bullet Button to the 556, you are limited to using a ten round magazine because anything larger would trigger an Assault Weapon based on the below code.

California has a separate Penal Code (PC 12020) that prohibits manufacture, sale and import of magazines with a capacity over ten rounds. That is why you must disassemble, or modify your magazines before you enter the state. Disassembled magazines are parts, and not subject to the law if you never assemble them in the state with a capacity greater than ten rounds.

Yes, it's all very silly, but it's the best we can do with the current laws we have. Welcome to California, and Calguns.

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length
of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

markw
06-14-2010, 8:48 PM
Are you Active Duty Military? There's some stuff that applies or doesn't apply if you are.

dantodd
06-14-2010, 9:02 PM
Many thanks for the fast and detailed answers - so in effect what makes my Sig 556 illegal is simply the magazine capacity ? Is that about the sum total of the issue ? So as a quick fix I can bring in the 556 with just no magazines and I should be Ok ? And then when I am settled in and have the time I can source magazines of under 10 rnds and Im good to go ? Also, I can see I have to complete a form for the hand guns .. but is there no form for the rifle or shotgun ? I can just bring them both in without needing any paperwork to be completed ?

Thanks again !

As others have said, the 556 is illegal because it has things like a pistol grip and flash hider. It is illegal for a gun to have a detachable magazine and these "evil features." Making the magazine non-detachable means you can have evil features. A bullet button requires a bullet or other thin object to depress the mag release which is considered a tool and therefore it is not a detachable magazine. (Crazy law, I know) You can review your rifle using the AW flowchart here: http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf You can find similar flowcharts under "AW & OLL Guides" in the dark blue bar near the top of every page on this site. You still need to abide by Overall Length restrictions etc.

As for the shotgun, most are OK including "cruisers" but shotguns with revolving cylinders are illegal. There is an interactive flowchart for shotguns too.

As you can see from some of the posts here we are fighting to reinvigorate the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in California. It is a long hard slog but we are winning. When you come here stick around on the forum and help make a difference.

livilops
06-14-2010, 9:08 PM
Good grief - how do people navigate their way around these laws .... I havnt had any exposure to this type off thing so far ..so I am reading very carefully what you are all saying and I appreciate all the info. I may have more follow-up questions on all this before I jump into my uHaul and do the 3100 mile trip to SF !

thayne
06-14-2010, 9:14 PM
Good grief - how do people navigate their way around these laws .... I havnt had any exposure to this type off thing so far ..so I am reading very carefully what you are all saying and I appreciate all the info. I may have more follow-up questions on all this before I jump into my uHaul and do the 3100 mile trip to SF !

Welcome to the front line!

thayne
06-14-2010, 9:15 PM
This can probably answer a lot of your questions:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

lazyworm
06-14-2010, 9:18 PM
Good grief - how do people navigate their way around these laws .... I havnt had any exposure to this type off thing so far ..so I am reading very carefully what you are all saying and I appreciate all the info. I may have more follow-up questions on all this before I jump into my uHaul and do the 3100 mile trip to SF !

We do it here everyday and we've been doing this (the OLL movement) for 4+ years.

Calguns is the best resource to get info and stay legal.

Please do come back and ask more questions.

I do hope you'll be another voter against our backwards laws and law makers
come November.

bwiese
06-14-2010, 10:00 PM
I have some simple questions and I'd be really grateful if anyone can help me understand the laws.

In 2 weeks I am moving from Florida to California and here in Florida I own a Sig-Saur 556 rifle which I know is not legal as
it stands and I also own a Sig 9mm pistol, a S&W .38 special and a shotgun.

ii) I understand I can modify my Sig 556 to make it legal in California by using a Prince 50 magazine lock - my question is
should I do this before entering the State or is it OK to do it once I am in my new home ?

MODIFY BEFORE ENTERING CA!!!!

iii) Once the rifle is modified can I then just bring it to my nearest shooting club in Cali and start to shoot with it without
fear of breaking any laws and upsetting law enforecement ?

CA-LEGAL BLACK RIFLES ARE BEST TRANSPORTED LOCKED/UNLOADED AND WITH MORE DISCRETION EVEN THAN OTHER
LONG GUNS. The Calguns Foundation WILL DEFEND YOU IF YOU HAVE A LEGAL FIREARM AND RUN INTO TROUBLE (very
rare now). WE BAT 1000.

iv) With respect to my pistols - is it legal to bring those in ? Do I have to apply for a license or some form of owner registration
certificate for each gun before I bring them in or can I wait until I am in Cali and then apply ?

See below


Here are the exact details:

1.) Your Sig 556 rifle needs to be configured with a BulletButton maglock device before the rifle enters CA. Assault weapons
cannot ordinarily be imported into CA now, so the gun must be rendered into non-AW form - and maintained in non-AW form -
before entry into CA.

An alternative for your Sig 556 may be to have no flash hider or folder/telestock and to run gripless or using a MonsterMan-style
grip which allows a conventional rifle-style (non-pistol-grip) hold. Unsure of your configuration or availability of such parts that fit
on 556s, but it may well be possible. Tons of people use BulletButton'd 556s here in CA and these rifles are sold on the shelves
of CA gunshops.

2.) If you leave CA, you can revert your rifle back to "free state" configuration for the duration of time you're outside CA - just
ensure your rifle is CA legal before returning to CA.

3.) You cannot bring in hicap (over 10 round) magazines into CA unless (it's unlikely) you had purchased or possessed them within
California before January 1 2000. You can fully disassemble your hicap mags and bring them into CA as separated parts kits, but
cannot reassemble them while you're inside CA.

4.) Aside from #3, do NOT use hicap magazines in semiautomatic guns with BulletButton-style maglocks: these configurations trigger
a weird secondary definition of assault weapon which you also need to avoid.

5.) Your Sig 9mm pistol is legal to bring/possess/use, but as #3 above tells you, don't bring in the hicaps. You'll have to get some
10rd mags for shooting it in CA.

6.) Your S&W 38spl revolver is legal to bring/possess/use. A good revolver is a fine thing!

7.) "Conventional" shotguns are generally legal but the following three shotguns styles are prohibited as 'assault weapons' in CA:
...... a semiauto shotgun with BOTH a folding/telescoping stock AND one or more of pistol grip/thumbhole stock/vertical handgrip;
...... a semiauto shotgun with a detachable magazine;
...... a semiauto shotgun with a revolving cylinder ("Street Sweeper");

Your common-garden variety Rem 870 or Mossberg pump shotgun, or a Browning A5, Mossberg 930, Beretta A390 etc. auto
shogun is legal.


9.) Handguns (but not long guns) need to have registration papers filed within 60 days of residency in CA. There's a $19 fee (forget
if it's per gun or not); it's called "New Resident Handgun Ownership Report" and is available from CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms website.


The above should square you away OK. Ask questions if you are unclear.

stitchnicklas
06-14-2010, 10:05 PM
better to stay in florida...lol

Dr Rockso
06-14-2010, 10:28 PM
3.) You cannot bring in hicap (over 10 round) magazines into CA unless (it's unlikely) you had purchased/possessed them IN CALIFORNIA before
January 1 2000. You can fully disassemble your hicap mags and bring them into CA as separated parts kits, but cannot reassemble
them while you're inside CA.

Important clarification.

thayne
06-14-2010, 10:31 PM
I think the $19 fee is for every handgun you own, not $19 each

Dr Rockso
06-14-2010, 10:34 PM
I think the $19 fee is for every handgun you own, not $19 each

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf

$19 per handgun for new residents, you're probably thinking of the intra-familial handgun transfer form.

thayne
06-14-2010, 10:38 PM
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf

$19 per handgun for new residents, you're probably thinking of the intra-familial handgun transfer form.
aw yeah. too many laws to keep track of! :mad:

bwiese
06-14-2010, 10:54 PM
Important clarification.

Thanks for catching. I had written to that effect but after some editing it got lost.

Original text edited to include this important concept.

cntrolsguy
06-14-2010, 11:00 PM
Keep in mind that these laws pertain to California and only California. You will be traveling cross country and will need to abide the different laws from state to state (although they should not differ to much). You should be able to look up the basic gun laws online for the states you plan to travel through.

Blackhawk556
06-14-2010, 11:49 PM
i'm starting to hate the term "assault weapon"

user_name
06-14-2010, 11:58 PM
threads like these really bring home how ludicrous CA's laws are. Can't wait for McDonald & subsequent litigation.

Alaric
06-15-2010, 12:59 AM
7.) "Conventional" shotguns are generally legal but the following three shotguns styles are prohibited as 'assault weapons' in CA:
...... a semiauto shotgun with BOTH a folding/telescoping stock AND one or more of pistol grip/thumbhole stock/vertical handgrip;
...... a semiauto shotgun with a detachable magazine;
...... a semiauto shotgun with a revolving cylinder ("Street Sweeper");

Your common-garden variety Rem 870 or Mossberg pump shotgun, or a Browning A5, Mossberg 930, Beretta A390 etc. auto
shogun is legal.



Just to clarify, a pump shotgun is not a semiauto shotgun for the purpose of the law Bill is referring to.

We really need a more descriptive term than semiauto for autoloading shotguns. Err, like autoloader. :p

30rdMag
06-15-2010, 3:57 AM
i'm starting to hate the term "California has an assault going on your weapon"

Fixed!!!

--------------

I'm glad to have read this. I just leave most things in arizona now when coming to Ca.

livilops
06-17-2010, 7:34 PM
OK need some more help. Based on all the input I received above .... I am now the proud owner of a Radlock Mag Kit for my Sig. Had to get it sent over from Cali as they didnt know what it was over here in Florida. I understand its a simple swap to take out the old button and put in the new button .... but how do I remove the old button ? On my Sig I can see no obvious way of removing it ? The Radlock instructions simply say "Remove original mag catch spring and button" this isnt a part of the weapon that I have ever taken apart before ..... any ideas ? Thanks !

gunsmith
06-17-2010, 7:51 PM
hot tip! buy a few rugers lcp's! you can sell them for 500 bucks apiece and make some folks really happy!

livilops
06-17-2010, 7:52 PM
Quick follow up question - I also bought 3 10Rnd magazines BUT is it legal to bring into Cali my 30 Rnd magazines so long as they are disassembled or do I really have to throw them away ?

G17GUY
06-17-2010, 8:09 PM
Quick follow up question - I also bought 3 10Rnd magazines BUT is it legal to bring into Cali my 30 Rnd magazines so long as they are disassembled or do I really have to throw them away ?

You can bring them in disassembled.

Read the flowchart, it will help you understand "capacity to accept a detachable magazine" on your sig556.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

G17GUY
06-17-2010, 8:15 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124709

Read the following thread, it goes over high capacity magazines in california and will help you understand the law.