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jnojr
03-28-2006, 1:10 PM
I present for your perusal:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2346816&posted=1#post2346816

I'm looking for comments both about Jim's post and my theoretical forecast.

Mike Haas - Can you give us any insight into how the NRA might respond if the case Jim talks about does proceed? Would the NRA seriously step up to the plate and pull out all the stops to support a new shall-issue CCW law here? Or would that be another fight that they don't see as profitable? I see this as being very different from the RKBA initiative, since we'd be looking at a situation where the "worst case" had already occurred (no provision for CCW issuance at all), and the question is to fight to try to gain shall-issue, or do nothing and go to no-issue or severely-restricted-issue statewide.

rips31
03-28-2006, 1:26 PM
hope jim's strategy works. you had a good thought, tho...this could be bad. you know how the libtards in sacratomato think...

PanzerAce
03-28-2006, 2:06 PM
I hope this works. It seems alot like the strategy re:Lowers. ie: push the DOJ/courts unavoidably to action.

EBWhite
03-28-2006, 2:18 PM
I hope this works. It seems alot like the strategy re:Lowers. ie: push the DOJ/courts unavoidably to action.


shall issue ccw would be great :-)

gmcem50
03-28-2006, 5:48 PM
shall issue ccw would be great :-)

Tell me about it; the application of CCW laws in CA is the one thing that has me considering moving away. I can put up with all the other rediculous nonsense we do as Californians, but this one thing. If my current 'campaign' to get my CCW is unsuccessful, it will be the beginning of the end for me as a Californian.

brando
03-28-2006, 6:05 PM
Hmm, you need to pass training before being issued a CCW in most states, right? ;)

Alphahookups
03-28-2006, 6:15 PM
Yes, yes you do. You have to take a class but you dont have to be a Navy Seal.

Dont worry, the streets wont be red with blood if it passes.

socal57chevy
03-28-2006, 9:10 PM
Hmm, you need to pass training before being issued a CCW in most states, right? ;)

PA requires only that you drive to the local Sheriff's office and pass the background check. The right to bear ams in PA is seen as just that, not your ability to pass a course. I agree that there probably should be a mandatory course, but as of 2003 there was not. My PA ccw expires in '08.
Does anybody know what states' ccw permits are honored here in CA, if any? I just recently moved here and am learning the ropes. The reason I ask is that I own property in another state and am considering licensing my cars there as well as obtaining my ccw in that state. (MO)

socal57chevy
03-28-2006, 9:35 PM
Just found that MO is on the list that is honored (http://www.packing.org/state/california/#thisstatehonors), but what is meant by "high confidence?"

Nevermind.....foun that, too.

Jeff Rambo
03-28-2006, 9:38 PM
Do not mistake what you read on packing.org to imply that California recongizes a permit from Missouri. What you read states that Missouri recongizes California's permit. Do not mistake the two. Apples and oranges.

socal57chevy
03-28-2006, 9:57 PM
Do not mistake what you read on packing.org to imply that California recongizes a permit from Missouri. What you read states that Missouri recongizes California's permit. Do not mistake the two. Apples and oranges.
Looks like I read it too fast. Now I see it says "no matches found" and I skimmed right to the part I wanted to see.
Thanks for catching my mistake.

jnojr
03-29-2006, 7:25 AM
Tell me about it; the application of CCW laws in CA is the one thing that has me considering moving away. I can put up with all the other rediculous nonsense we do as Californians, but this one thing. If my current 'campaign' to get my CCW is unsuccessful, it will be the beginning of the end for me as a Californian.

Your profile says you live in Anaheim. Isn't that Orange County? Carona is very pro-CCW... you shouldn't have much trouble getting one.

shopkeep
03-29-2006, 12:21 PM
I'm firmly a believer that minorities will play a leading role in the liberation. The communists are big champions of "minority rights" and other issues involving minorities. If we show the reality that their strict gun laws are violating minority rights, they'll be forced to give a handout to minorities and thus more gun rights for everyone.

jnojr
03-29-2006, 1:13 PM
I'm firmly a believer that minorities will play a leading role in the liberation. The communists are big champions of "minority rights" and other issues involving minorities. If we show the reality that their strict gun laws are violating minority rights, they'll be forced to give a handout to minorities and thus more gun rights for everyone.

Or just say "No CCWs for anyone. Now there's no discrimination."

Muzz
03-29-2006, 1:21 PM
Or just say "No CCWs for anyone. Now there's no discrimination."
Bingo...I hope we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot...so to speak.

blacklisted
03-29-2006, 2:02 PM
Bingo...I hope we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot...so to speak.

You can bet that they have definately thought of it. The problem with eliminating CCW for everyone is that politicians couldn't get them. If they exempted politicians, it would piss SOME people off.

gmcem50
03-29-2006, 2:31 PM
Your profile says you live in Anaheim. Isn't that Orange County? Carona is very pro-CCW... you shouldn't have much trouble getting one.

I finally compiled all the nec. paperwork and character letters and such and will be submitting the app. tomorrow.

CWM4A1
03-29-2006, 2:55 PM
Just from what I heard, OC CCW might start to tight up and issue to those who have life/death scenario only. Apparently in some county meeting there was complain about too many CCW issued, and OCSD are going to start to tighten up on issuing CCW. I might be wrong about this. Anyone wants to comment?

Paladin
04-04-2006, 10:46 PM
I present for your perusal:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2346816&posted=1#post2346816

I'm looking for comments both about Jim's post and my theoretical forecast.

Mike Haas - Can you give us any insight into how the NRA might respond if the case Jim talks about does proceed?

I finally had a chance to go over this. If all Jim states re the law and facts is correct, I think Jim's analysis seems to be correct. I think he is mistaken if he thinks the plaintiff's attorney determines whether the court (assuming 9th CCA) will remove the offending part of the statute or whether they will toss the whole thing. Sad thing is, with liberal/activist jurists, you never know what to expect.

My guess is that this will take 2-3 yrs to get to 9th Cir ruling, and then might need appeal to SCOTUS. Pray that Bush gets to replace Ginsburg, Breyer, Souter and/or Stevens. We might finally get the 2nd A applied to the states as an individual right thru doctine of incorporation. If Bush does not get to nominate new justices and an anti becomes our next president, don't expect the Supremes to moisten their finger and stick it into the wind and decide that since so many states have gone Shall Issue and none have gone the other way, anything less than Shall Issue is unconstitutional. They did that to shoot down some death penalty cases, but liberal justices won't do that to expand gun rights (Shall Issue, or unrestricted). Usu, if liberal justices get a whiff of discrimination, they will jump all over the statute and expand/create rights. But then again, when has the ACLU been a vigorous defender of the RKBA/2nd A?

It would be great if the 9th just excises the offending parts (the subjective/discretionary parts) and makes Kali effectively Shall Issue, even if the law is actually May Issue, like CT and AL (see the NRA's legally precise RTC map at: www.nraila.org/images/rtcmaplg.jpg ).

If they dump the whole statute, Sacto will pass a law in record time. Any hope for unrestricted VT-carry is dreaming. I read in the SFChron today where some billionaire in So. Cal. wanted to keep his finances private during and after his divorce. Sacto introduced, debated, passed in both chambers and the governor signed a bill giving him what he wanted ALL WITHIN ONE MONTH! ! !

So, what will a new concealed carry law be like? Who knows? But I can tell you one thing for sure, if we don't have all our ducks in a row when the time comes, we're more than likely to get our clocks cleaned (ie, goodbye to rural county CCW heaven). Unfortunately, as I said, we've only got 2 yrs to get ready -- no time to spare. As I've looked at several states who are fighting for Shall Issue and some that have won it, I see that many of them fought for 7-10 yrs! This is with relatively pro-gun midwestern states. Think of how long Kali will take. We need to start now, regardless of whether this case goes forward, wins or loses (and regardless of RKBA initiative).

As jnojr said, with this hot of an issue, reason won't play much of a role is how things go in Sacto. What will play a role are the politicians' interests. We'll have to ignore the hardcore, principled antis and focus on the vast middle ground of mild antis to mild pro-2nd A. What counts with them, ultimately, are votes and money, in that order. If we can give them enough of one or the other or both, they'll be puddy in our hands. Again, since my name isn't Soros, we need a lot more members here (or somewhere) to get regular updates on what to do and when (e.g., who to call/email/fax/etc). More about this in a later thread. ;)

The more states that go Shall Issue the stronger our case will be to the public. My guess: DE in 2006; WI and/or IO in 2007 or '08; MD and/or RI between 2008 and '10. Then we'll be facing the beast cornered in his lair (from west to east): HI, CA, IL, NY, DC, NJ, and MA. That will be vicious!

Jim's approach may work w/Iowa's patchwork, anti-urban May Issue ( www.packing.org/state/iowa/image.php?stateimage=113 ).

Re. Mike & the NRA: don't expect them to show their hands to us. Just keep the info flowing to them and ASSUME they're on our side and smart enough to figure out the implications and make contigency plans.

Last thought: Having CWPs in non-permissive states is the latest power/status symbol of "Limousine Liberals".

Josh
04-04-2006, 10:49 PM
Just from what I heard, OC CCW might start to tight up and issue to those who have life/death scenario only. Apparently in some county meeting there was complain about too many CCW issued, and OCSD are going to start to tighten up on issuing CCW. I might be wrong about this. Anyone wants to comment?

With the election coming up anything could happen.

Mute
04-05-2006, 7:15 AM
Why would this go the 9th circus? Isn't this purely a state matter?

Paladin
04-05-2006, 7:08 PM
Why would this go the 9th circus? Isn't this purely a state matter?

Could go either route since both Kali Con and US Con have Equal Protection clauses.

Sgt Raven
04-05-2006, 9:30 PM
It should go to the state SC 1st.