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View Full Version : What do FBI & CIA actually carry?


smokycuh
03-27-2006, 7:09 AM
I've been just randomly reading through gun catalogs and every single one of them says that the government carries they're line of pistols. Well that's impossible because we only have one government. I just wanted to know what does the FBI and the CIA carry as handguns?

bear308
03-27-2006, 8:35 AM
the last few FBI agents I've seen were shooting Glocks, but I thought they were carrying sigs. Next one I see at the range I'll ask.

Josh
03-27-2006, 8:51 AM
theres more than one type of firearm that they can carry and different branches choose different ones.

Sig and Glock are both OK'd by the FBI to be carried by their agents.

glen avon
03-27-2006, 9:17 AM
I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you.

:D

bassplayrr
03-27-2006, 9:50 AM
I beleive the FBI s.w.a.t. uses Springfield 1911s (TRP-PRO). So, there's another to throw in the works.

-Chris

asintado
03-27-2006, 11:49 AM
I thought their swat carried Caspian 1911s?

NIB
03-27-2006, 12:39 PM
Standard issue for the FBI is either a Glock 22 or 23 depending on the agent. Once in the field they have a list of authorized firearms they can choose to carry but it comes out of their own pocket.

CIA.....I not sure what they carry but from what I've picked up around I think in general they do not get issued firearms but are trained on them. The short pieces of actual CIA training footage that are out there shows them training with 1911s, Glocks and revolvers but I'm sure they get training in a wide range of firearms. The CIA agent that was killed in Afgahnistan was carrying a Beretta while another one running around and directing air strikes was carrying a 1911 pistol.

Also remember that gunman that shot up a few agents outside of Langley was killed by the security guards at the gate.

jessegpresley
03-27-2006, 1:25 PM
According to the Springfield website, FBI HRT uses PC9111 Professionals. They retail around $2.7k.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistolscustomshop/PC9111.jpg

smokycuh
03-27-2006, 2:00 PM
all this information is quite interesting.

Satex
03-27-2006, 3:36 PM
Can't it be that the FBI, CIA and any other govt agency has a selection of tools "guns" to choose from? There is no single tool for every job. Multipurpose tools are usually a pretty bad products since they are a compromise between a bunch of good tools.
For instance, in a military squad you will find a number of weapons: M16, M60, M203 and more. Applied together at the right mix, for the right job, they produce wonderful results.

rips31
03-27-2006, 3:38 PM
i think every agency operates it's own contracts. i know that dea issues g22, but agents have a list of approved guns they can carry.

m1371
03-27-2006, 10:00 PM
Can't it be that the FBI, CIA and any other govt agency has a selection of tools "guns" to choose from? There is no single tool for every job. Multipurpose tools are usually a pretty bad products since they are a compromise between a bunch of good tools.
For instance, in a military squad you will find a number of weapons: M16, M60, M203 and more. Applied together at the right mix, for the right job, they produce wonderful results.

I think it's more along the lines of each agency runs it's own selection process for issuing contracts for issue firearms. Sometimes it ends up being either a certain agency wants specific criteria to be met or they want to get the lowest bidder.

asintado
03-27-2006, 10:34 PM
What does the US Marshals and ATF use?

wuhungsix
03-27-2006, 11:35 PM
What does the US Marshals and ATF use?

I know a guy in the U.S. Marshal service...he is issued a Glock 22.

m1371
03-27-2006, 11:36 PM
What does the US Marshals and ATF use?

Google-fu turned this up. Don't know how recent this info is or whether it is 100% valid.

http://www.usmarshals.gov/usmsforkids/week_wed.htm

The U.S. Marshals Service's primary hand gun is the Glock 40 caliber. Each deputy may carry a backup hand gun of their choice if it meets certain requirements.


I know that DHS just awarded significant-sized contracts to HK & Sig, supposedly in excess of $50mil for new guns.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_11_49/ai_n7579143

The firearm industry continues to receive a significant number of firearm and ammunition contracts from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The department recently awarded handgun contracts to Heckler & Koch (HK) and Sigarms worth nearly $50 million dollars. Each company received contracts for a maximum of 65,000 pistols that agencies within DHS may purchase over the next five years.

The HK contract has a potential value of up to $26.2 million. According to HK, the contract ranks as the single largest handgun procurement ever by a U.S. law enforcement agency. The HK pistol models selected are the USP Compact LEM, the P2000 and P2000SK sub-compact in 9X 19mm, .40 S&W and .357 SIG. They feature HK's LEM trigger system.

. . . . . . . . . .

Sigarms' DHS contract is worth $23.7 million. The SIG 9mm and .40 S&W pistol models selected are the SIG Sauer P239 DAO and the P226 and P229 Rail pistols, featuring SIG's new DAK trigger system.

. . . . . . . . . .

Following the $23.7 award, Sigarms received a $4.2 million pistol contract from the U.S. Coast Guard from DHS. The Coast Guard is replacing its Beretta 9mm pistols with the SIG Sauer P229 Rail in .40 S&W.


I would only be able to take a wild guess what BATF is issuing right now. Maybe Glock? Seems to be the .40S&W Glocks are standard across the board for most federal agencies. Might be changing soon though, if this new DHS contract is any indication. All the .gov agencies seem to play "follow the leader" on stuff like this.

hitnrun
03-28-2006, 1:29 AM
Why would the Feds be changing from Glock, to Sig, to HK, to your mom, etc. Did they get tired of the Glocks, have Glocks somehow become inferior, are newer pistols more reliable? I know Sig and HK aren't cheap, just wondering why they would switch out if the standard duty weapon was just fine. We have been with Sig since the mid 90's. No plans to change either. I love Sig!:cool:

EBWhite
03-28-2006, 2:14 AM
if they all had brains, they would carry 1911's still

m1371
03-28-2006, 3:29 AM
Why would the Feds be changing from Glock, to Sig, to HK, to your mom, etc. Did they get tired of the Glocks, have Glocks somehow become inferior, are newer pistols more reliable? I know Sig and HK aren't cheap, just wondering why they would switch out if the standard duty weapon was just fine. We have been with Sig since the mid 90's. No plans to change either. I love Sig!:cool:

Could be quite a few reasons.

Scheduled "end of servicelife" for agency weapons, regardless of usage. Allows them to rotate in new guns after so many decades to replace the old ones.

Change in specifications for duty firearms, could be either mission driven or technology driven. For example, the integration of lightrails into more and more handguns. Maybe the agency in question has determined they need a handgun with double-strike capability, which the Glock doesn't have and a dao Sig does.

Updated technology..... Glocks are how old and haven't seen significant changes in how long? Could just be a case of wanting to get the newest latest & greatest piece of gear on the market. I mean, who wants to carry a Glock when you can have the newest Sig DAK that everybody at the watercooler is gossiping about? :rolleyes:

Change of calibers. Best example there is the "FBI 10mm era". Didn't last long and the .40S&W rose to prominence out of it.



Lots of other possible reasons that you or I likely are not privy to. These were just a few ideas right off the top of my head.

Josh
03-28-2006, 9:11 AM
Why would the Feds be changing from Glock, to Sig, to HK, to your mom, etc. Did they get tired of the Glocks, have Glocks somehow become inferior, are newer pistols more reliable? I know Sig and HK aren't cheap, just wondering why they would switch out if the standard duty weapon was just fine. We have been with Sig since the mid 90's. No plans to change either. I love Sig!:cool:

At one point glock was pulled from service due to failing a drop test where the slide would fall off or in some cases a chambered round would fire.

Also when different people get the job of being in charge of the selection of weapons they have their own personal preferences. Different people shoot different handguns. A glock does not fit everyones hand, also some are not comfortable with keeping one in the pipe and having such a short trigger pull with no safety. Some dont like the single stack feel of the sig or the DA/SA transition. Whole bunch of reasons that there is more than one approved duty weapon.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
03-28-2006, 4:44 PM
Hypothetical "Craftsman" ad: "Fred's Tire Shop in Roseville uses Craftsman tools. Shouldn't you?"

Yeah and they also use Snap-On and Mac and Proto and Matco and... if it's the right size wrench for the job and they figure it's decent quality and the price is right, and the end user doesn't have a problem with it, they'll use it. I'm quite sure the same goes for guns used by the gov. If it's the right caliber for the job, and has good quality and good features and the price is right, they'd go for it.

EBWhite
03-28-2006, 5:37 PM
No, we all know crapsman makes bad tools....For the homeowner, the tools are fine. But if your work on your cars, atleast get a better brand.

Pido11
03-29-2006, 11:53 AM
Sig is a nice guns. I would'nt wonder why many dept. switch from Glocks. I have both and I will put my Sig226 first.

Nick5811
03-29-2006, 12:03 PM
CBP=.40 glock (M-23) as of 2004

CALI-gula
03-29-2006, 6:53 PM
I know a guy in the U.S. Marshal service...he is issued a Glock 22.

"Git rid o' dat niko-plated sissy pissle 'n git yurself a Glock...."


I like Glocks, I like H&Ks, I like Browning Hi-Powers, I like CZs, I like 1911s and a whole gaggle of other things, and I own all of the latter; but for an all around trust, for all around scenarios, I would choose a SIG over anything else.

hitnrun
03-30-2006, 12:03 AM
"Git rid o' dat niko-plated sissy pissle 'n git yurself a Glock...."


I like Glocks, I like H&Ks, I like Browning Hi-Powers, I like CZs, I like 1911s and a whole gaggle of other things, and I own all of the latter; but for an all around trust, for all around scenarios, I would choose a SIG over anything else.


Amen! Preach on...:D

elmo
03-30-2006, 5:31 AM
i was at the federal agency yesterday (don't ask why)

standard issue given to all FBI special agents is:

glock 22 .40cal
MP5
Remington 870 shotgun

m1371
03-30-2006, 9:53 PM
i was at the federal agency yesterday (don't ask why)

standard issue given to all FBI special agents is:

glock 22 .40cal
MP5
Remington 870 shotgun

Last I heard they're still using the mp5-10. :D

Gotta love a subgun chambered in 10mm.

CowtownBallin
03-30-2006, 10:58 PM
Last I heard they're still using the mp5-10. :D

Gotta love a subgun chambered in 10mm.

Kinda like the HK UMP .45ACP
Awesome

m1371
03-31-2006, 2:17 AM
Kinda like the HK UMP .45ACP

No, not really "like".


BETTER.

wheelgunner
03-31-2006, 4:32 AM
According to the Springfield website, FBI HRT uses PC9111 Professionals. They retail around $2.7k.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistolscustomshop/PC9111.jpg


:eek: I hope Springfield ships these guns with a better magazine than they ship with their basic 1911.

elmo
03-31-2006, 11:08 AM
Last I heard they're still using the mp5-10. :D

Gotta love a subgun chambered in 10mm.

exactly...quoted from FBI website on the training of new recruits:

"Each student will fire over 3,000 rounds of .40 S&W ammunition through their handgun, approximately 200 rounds of 12 gauge ammunition through the Remington Model 870 shotgun (both 00 buckshot and rifled slug), and approximately 200 rounds of 10 mm ammunition through the Heckler & Koch MP5/10A2 submachine gun."

anothergunnut
03-31-2006, 11:34 AM
The special agents at the Department of the Treasury use to carry Sig 228s. They recently moved to Glocks.

rips31
03-31-2006, 11:35 AM
exactly...quoted from FBI website on the training of new recruits:

"Each student will fire over 3,000 rounds of .40 S&W ammunition through their handgun, approximately 200 rounds of 12 gauge ammunition through the Remington Model 870 shotgun (both 00 buckshot and rifled slug), and approximately 200 rounds of 10 mm ammunition through the Heckler & Koch MP5/10A2 submachine gun."
hrm...

3k rounds of handgun ammo...at most 10 range trips?

200 rounds of shotgun ammo...maybe 10 range trips?

200 rounds from mp5...at most 5 minutes (including reload time for mags)? :D

MrEd
04-04-2006, 6:58 PM
All Agencies depending from the USDOJ are in the process or have finished transitioning to Glock , why go in the case of the FBI from Sig to Glock ? weight , carry a Sig all day and then carry a glock , it is a world of difference . The MP5 's are no longer issued and can not be carried by FBI Agents in their vehicles , this was due to increases in theft from such .
The CIA has no "Issue" weapon as most employees will not see any action unless you count the deadly fight with the desk stapler . Only one branch of the CIA conducts field ops , this is the Special Activities Division , they have no issued weapon but use a mixture of firearms , depending on Geography , personal preference of the operator in question and last but not least Deniability . Imagine if a CIA agent was to go to let's say Iran and start blasting away using an M4 . in this case they would most certainly use an AK .