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View Full Version : Carbon 15 Question about the Magazine


techmci
03-26-2006, 8:54 PM
I've looked at the Fab-10's and the Vulcans, but the one I like best is the Bushmaster Carbon 15.

Now if I understand things right, I can cut out the bottom of the magwell and subsitute a 10 round magazine, (preferably Bushmaster) add a magazine lock (Sporting Conversions?) and the rifle is still legal right? Or does modifying it to accept a ' fixed ' non-removal magazine make me a felon? I like this rifle very much but don't want to screw it up and become bubba's jailhouse butt buddy.

Has anybody done this modification and are there any pics after it was done?

I want to go this route since I can't find a FFL anywhere in my area who has any balls. (north of yuba city/marysville) to do a transfer on a off-list lower. I'm getting frustrated and the carbon 15 is looking better and better all the time.

Thanks for your help, Chubby

xenophobe
03-26-2006, 9:03 PM
I haven't thought of it, but yes, this would be perfectly legal. Take off the stock and pistol grip.... and of course you would probably want to strip it completely before you started cutting away.

Use a cutting bit to cut out MOST of the inner area of the magwell, then carefully and slowly use a grinding bit to remove the rest of the material and bevel the well. Remove just a little bit at a time.

Yes, this would work and would be perfectly legal as long as you kept a fixed 10 round magazine in it.

techmci
03-26-2006, 9:17 PM
I haven't thought of it, but yes, this would be perfectly legal. Take off the stock and pistol grip.... and of course you would probably want to strip it completely before you started cutting away.

Use a cutting bit to cut out MOST of the inner area of the magwell, then carefully and slowly use a grinding bit to remove the rest of the material and bevel the well. Remove just a little bit at a time.

Yes, this would work and would be perfectly legal as long as you kept a fixed 10 round magazine in it.

Thanks for the great advice! You guys have been great, I owe you all cold beer for all your super help.

tenpercentfirearms
03-26-2006, 9:36 PM
That seems like a lot of work and I don't know if I would want to bubba my rifle like that. Why can't you try and track someone down that has stripped CARBON-15 lowers and just buy one of those? That would probably be much easier. And just because there isn't a dealer in your area, doesn't mean you can't drive to get one. It just seems like quite a project to do when there are so many lowers out there you don't have to cut on.

bu-bye
03-26-2006, 9:44 PM
Hmmm I'm not sure what that would be like to cut. I have a mill that does a great job on metals but I'm not sure about carbon.

C.G. I think has good info about cutting this stuff. I don't think i would try it with a dremel though. I have been toying with the idea of milling out my Fab-10 myself.

Surveyor
03-26-2006, 10:09 PM
Back when I was into building knife kits, I was warned about grinding G10 scales because the dust is very bad for your lungs. You might want to see if you'll need a mask/breather to work with carbon fiber.

sac7000
03-27-2006, 9:20 AM
Information found on the web in regards to cutting carbon fiber.


http://www.robotmarketplace.com/store_carbon_fiber_faq.html



How do I cut it?

For the thinner pieces (.020 and smaller), you can actually just use a good pair of scissors. Thicker material you may be able to use a tin-snips, but the optimal method is to use a band saw or scroll saw. Fast-cutting, as with a jigsaw or circular saw tends to make a lot of dust, and can leave a less-smooth cut, so slow-cutting is typically better. When using a saw, it is a good idea to protect the glossy finish from scratches, with some masking or similar tape. Finish up the edges with a 100 grit sandpaper to take the rough spots off, then detail with 400 grit. If you're really fancy, you can use a Waterjet or Laser-cutting service. (Although laser-cutting carbon fiber tends to really stink as the material burns!)

What are the dangers?

Much of what you may have heard about cutting carbon fiber is either flat-out untrue, or can be avoided easily. The main thing you need to know is wear protection! Whether you're cutting or sanding, you need to wear eye protection, mask, and long sleeves. Gloves are wise to use as well. Basically, the less exposed skin you have, the better. Don't breathe the dust (another reason to use slow-cutting methods- less dust). Basically the main danger is splinters. They are annoying and can be painful, so just be careful to avoid them. Did we mention DON'T BREATHE THE DUST

.

shopkeep
03-27-2006, 11:37 AM
That seems like a lot of work and I don't know if I would want to bubba my rifle like that. Why can't you try and track someone down that has stripped CARBON-15 lowers and just buy one of those? That would probably be much easier. And just because there isn't a dealer in your area, doesn't mean you can't drive to get one. It just seems like quite a project to do when there are so many lowers out there you don't have to cut on.

Most FFLs consider the stripped CARBON-15 to be in the same boat as the Eagle Arms AR-10. These items are too hot for most FFLs to handle. If you know of an FFL that is willing to sell a CARBON-15 stripped lower lemme know I'd be more than happy to take it off their hands.

LOW2000
03-27-2006, 12:23 PM
If he were to do this, the chances of it being listed would be nil, since the DOJ would have listed that item by name, it would be an AW and Bushmaster would no longer be able to import the sealed mag version since it shares the same name and you can't import an AW.

blacklisted
03-27-2006, 12:30 PM
I thought the Carbon-15 was carbon fiber reinforced polymer? Wouldn't that be a little different to cut than plain carbon fiber?

LOW2000
03-27-2006, 1:15 PM
Any sort of cutting bit should make short work of it, even a dremel will cut that stuff. Its very similar to the thermoplastics used in the automotive industry. While those parts are strong, I still don't trust them in guns too much since that material can be somewhat brittle and splinter if subjected to heavy shock.

islandchanel
03-27-2006, 6:20 PM
Ive messed around with different fiberglassing materials but not carbon fiber. When i cut it i used a bandsaw and some sandpaper to smooth. I wouldnt do it myself but if i had too i would take a dremel with a circular cutting disk and pray.

C.G.
03-27-2006, 6:41 PM
Ive messed around with different fiberglassing materials but not carbon fiber. When i cut it i used a bandsaw and some sandpaper to smooth. I wouldnt do it myself but if i had too i would take a dremel with a circular cutting disk and pray.

The ceramic disc would be excellent to use, because
1) it is thinner
2) stays cooler
3) won't contaminate the carbon fiber with iron particles

If you do this, do wear a respirator. I would seal off any cut surface with good epoxy, i. e. West Systems, with anti-UV additive.

Having said that, I would suggest not to do what you are planning, because 1) the Bushmaster folks may have re-engineered the Cali version and the magwell may be structural at this point, 2) you can still buy off-list lowers and it would be cheaper to buy one of those than screwing up on the carbon one.

gh429
03-28-2006, 11:38 PM
Just use a dremel tool, file for smoothing, and some sand paper for touch up. The polymer type material that the Carbon-15 uses cuts like butter - much easier than aluminum. The nice thing about the Carbon-15 is that you can actually see the mold lines where they would machine out for the detachable mag.

The mag is simply just a 20rd mag cut in half, with no base, and secured in the magwell by the allen nut up front.

Nak
04-01-2006, 7:54 PM
Use a dremel bit, drill a hole first and work your way around. Make a template for yourself.

You can cut carbon fiber with scissors... when its on the roll.

A cured composite however is a different story. As said before, use a Dremel.

TonyM
04-01-2006, 7:58 PM
Having said that, I would suggest not to do what you are planning, because 1) the Bushmaster folks may have re-engineered the Cali version and the magwell may be structural at this point, 2) you can still buy off-list lowers and it would be cheaper to buy one of those than screwing up on the carbon one.


I agree. I would just go buy another real lower. You'll still use the Bushmaster I'm sure... but it would suck to run into a "Gotcha!" and ruin it forever.

swhatb
04-03-2006, 1:41 PM
Most FFLs consider the stripped CARBON-15 to be in the same boat as the Eagle Arms AR-10. These items are too hot for most FFLs to handle. If you know of an FFL that is willing to sell a CARBON-15 stripped lower lemme know I'd be more than happy to take it off their hands.
very true. any 'named' lower is tttttttoooooooo hhhhhhhhooooooottttttt for most FFLS to handle. just get an off-list lower and don't bother making the FAB-10 to accept a detachable mag.

gh429
04-03-2006, 2:20 PM
Use a dremel bit, drill a hole first and work your way around. Make a template for yourself.

You can cut carbon fiber with scissors... when its on the roll.

A cured composite however is a different story. As said before, use a Dremel.

Actually Bushmaster was nice enough to make the template for you. :) You can clearly see where to cut on the bottom of the lower. This is probably because the Cali legal version is actually just an "add on" tooling of the original tooling for the non-cali version. Thanks Bushmaster :)

filefish
04-03-2006, 2:30 PM
if you get the carbon just leave it alone, I understand that the sealed magwell looks goofy but I would not screw with it

Shoot-it
04-03-2006, 10:43 PM
if you get the carbon just leave it alone, I understand that the sealed magwell looks goofy but I would not screw with it

I agree I have put a few hundred rounds threw mine and it works fine.The only thing i must add is too make sure you take a small flat head screw driver with you in case off a double feed it makes picking out the shells easy.This was my fault because i didn't let go of the charging handle and let it slam home.