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shopkeep
03-24-2006, 12:18 PM
I was talking to a C&R FFL and something very interesting came up in our conversation that I thought I'd contribute. To further add to the already existing confusion, in the upcomming years there will be a number of AR-15 recievers comming into the C&R market. 1959 and early 1960s AR-15 recievers will soon be considered C&R items by virtue of being over 50 years old.

Hence, the DOJ will not only have to list everyone making AR-15s now to ban them they will also have to list everyone who has ever made an AR-15. There are ALOT of companies who have made AR-15s over the past 40+ years... LOL Good luck DOJ!!! Each year a new batch is gonna become C&R!

ldivinag
03-24-2006, 12:20 PM
i believe C&R does not apply to AW even that old...

xenophobe
03-24-2006, 12:49 PM
Nor does it apply to machine guns in California.

Rumpled
03-24-2006, 1:04 PM
AW restrictions are still in effect for C&R's.
Also, receivers themselves aren't C&R, the weapon must be complete.
(ATF has allowed changes like grenade launcher removal for Yugo59/66's)

shopkeep
03-24-2006, 1:12 PM
AW restrictions are still in effect for C&R's.
Also, receivers themselves aren't C&R, the weapon must be complete.
(ATF has allowed changes like grenade launcher removal for Yugo59/66's)

Hence such changes would also be possible to a C&R AR-15 off-list rifle sold in Nevada.

DrjonesUSA
03-24-2006, 2:34 PM
AW restrictions are still in effect for C&R's.
Also, receivers themselves aren't C&R, the weapon must be complete.
(ATF has allowed changes like grenade launcher removal for Yugo59/66's)


How exactly is the law worded to require that the weapon must be complete, and how can that pass legal muster since the reciever legally IS the firearm??

Either the reciever is the firearm or it isn't. Barrels, parts, etc. are just that; parts.

The reciever is the gun.

CALI-gula
03-24-2006, 2:46 PM
AW restrictions are still in effect for C&R's.

Correct, and one already applicable example would be the reason you can't get a C&R Thompson .45 Semi-Auto Carbine in California, as either an original or as a Kahr/Auto-Ordinance made replica. Bummer. :(

shopkeep
03-24-2006, 6:44 PM
Correct, and one already applicable example would be the reason you can't get a C&R Thompson .45 Semi-Auto Carbine in California, as either an original or as a Kahr/Auto-Ordinance made replica. Bummer. :(

Couldn't you run a thompson with no pistol grip and a 16 inch barrel?

NeoWeird
03-24-2006, 6:56 PM
While it is true you can only use your C&R license to obtain C&R firearms in their ORIGINAL configuration (it has been said that even barreled actions are not C&R unless they were sold from the manufacture as a barreled action). Now nothing is stopping you from modding your rifle if you purchased it out of state, but at the same time you remove it's C&R status and you couldn't trade it unless you removed that quality.

So going out of state, purchasing one, then fixing the mag in place, and then returning would be the only option. It's kind of a lot of work to go through as you would basically RUIN a C&R once it was registered (unless you wanted it for historical value) just to have it, not to mention the price tag on one is probably twice that of a noraml AR. It just seems like a lot of extra money and work for a different door, when right now the primary door is a lot easier, cheaper, and more abundant.

icormba
03-24-2006, 7:14 PM
For instance: German STG-44 is on the Fed's C & R list, but since it's select fire... you also need one of those NFA license thingy's.


SECTION IV: National Firearms Act Weapons Classified As Curios Or Relics Under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44
The Bureau has determined that the following National Firearms Act weapons are curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 178.11 because of their dates of manufacture. These National Firearms Act weapons, classified as curios or relics, are still subject to all the controls under the National Firearms Act. However, licensed collectors may acquire, hold, or dispose of them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 178. They are still "firearms" as defined in the National Firearms Act and 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.
The LIST:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/sec4.htm


There is also a list that allows certain older NFA weapons that have been removed from the NFA list to qualify as C&R:
SECTION III: Weapons Removed From The NFA As Collector's Items And Classified As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA
THE LIST:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/curios/sec3.htm

Then there is a list of items added to C&R that are pretty cool! (still can't have these here though.)
some of those are:
Norinco (Chinese) AK47S, 5.56x45mm caliber, serial number 403876.
Norinco (Chinese) AK47S84S-1, 5.56x45mm caliber, serial number 303052.
Norinco (Chinese) AK47S, 7.62x39mm caliber, serial number 1620127.
Poly Tech (Chinese) AK 47S (386), 7.62x39mm caliber, serial number P47-11545.
Romanian AK 74S, 5.45x45mm caliber, serial number 3-040053-97.

Keep in mind... all of these items will most likely cost a small fortune even in free America.

ohsmily
03-24-2006, 7:21 PM
This does not pertain to this thread at all....but shopkeep, I can't take it anymore......"comming" is not a word and you ALWAYS type it in your threads....it is "coming".

icormba
03-24-2006, 7:43 PM
This does not pertain to this thread at all....but shopkeep, I can't take it anymore......"comming" is not a word and you ALWAYS type it in your threads....it is "coming".

Just feel happy that he didn't use a different letter in there!! haha!!

... then again I'm sure these AR lowers have had "some kind" of effect on people ;)



just kidding shopkeep!!