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View Full Version : Curio & Relic (C&R) Pistols in the PRK?


Forever-A-Soldier
03-23-2006, 2:00 PM
O.k... correct me if I am wrong, but C&R pistols (pistols manufactured over 50 years ago) are exempt from the PRK Handgun Safety Test requirements. I did a search and wanted to know if I'm tracking right on all this.

I'm wanting to get a Russian Nagant Model 1895 pistol to add to my collection. I'm assuming if I go through my local FFL that won't be an issue?

F.A.S. Out

xenophobe
03-23-2006, 2:02 PM
You are correct. Completely legal.

383green
03-23-2006, 5:35 PM
I'm wanting to get a Russian Nagant Model 1895 pistol to add to my collection.

I have one of those. It's certainly an interesting and unusual pistol, but I have cap guns and power drills with better triggers! :D

It's also one of those rare breeds where two boxes of ammo for it will probably cost more than the gun itself. :eek:

gose
03-23-2006, 5:55 PM
C&R doesn't exempt a gun from AW crap, does it?

caliar15
03-23-2006, 6:03 PM
C&R doesn't exempt a gun from AW crap, does it?
Nope sure doesn't

unimog_88
03-23-2006, 7:58 PM
I'm wanting to get a Russian Nagant Model 1895 pistol to add to my collection. I'm assuming if I go through my local FFL that won't be an issue?

F.A.S. Out


No problem at all, sir. But you need to wait 10 days if you don't have a COE.

If you travel outside CA and bring C&R handguns back, just remember to file a report to DOJ and pay some fee within 5(?) days. No waiting period and 30-day-per-handgun restrictions.:)

JAFGO
03-23-2006, 9:24 PM
A pistol doesn't have to be 50 years old to be C&R if the ATF classifies it as C&R. Age makes no difference if ATF puts it on their C&R list. And that list contains many, many handguns that are NOT 50 years old that are exempt from the handgun safety test requirements and are perfectly legal to import to an 01 FFL in California.

http://www.calgunlaws.com/modules.php?name=NukeNews&file=article&sid=122

B. "CURIO OR RELIC"

Under federal law, "curios or relics" are defined as any firearms that:

are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as "curios or relics," firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be "curios or relics" of museum interest; and

(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less."2

Thus, "curios or relics" need not be more than 50 years old if they are "certified curios or relics" or if the firearm is so "novel, rare, bizarre," so as to be rare or substantially more expensive than like firearms.

California law regulates transfers of "curio or relic"("C&R") firearms, but it does not define the term. Instead, California law adopts the federal definition of "curios or relics."

Forever-A-Soldier
03-24-2006, 6:44 AM
JAFGO wrote: A pistol doesn't have to be 50 years old to be C&R if the ATF classifies it as C&R. Age makes no difference if ATF puts it on their C&R list. And that list contains many, many handguns that are NOT 50 years old that are exempt from the handgun safety test requirements and are perfectly legal to import to an 01 FFL in California.


Is there an online list of what ATF states is Curio & Relic? I didn't see it in the link you included in your previous post.

F.A.S. Out

jmlivingston
03-24-2006, 6:58 AM
Here you go... (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/sec2.htm)

John

jmlivingston
03-24-2006, 7:01 AM
Whoops - that webpage only included those items list up until 2001. Here's the updates to that list. (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/0301to0505update.htm)

John

-hanko
03-24-2006, 2:05 PM
A pistol doesn't have to be 50 years old to be C&R if the ATF classifies it as C&R. Age makes no difference if ATF puts it on their C&R list. And that list contains many, many handguns that are NOT 50 years old that are exempt from the handgun safety test requirements and are perfectly legal to import to an 01 FFL in California.[/url]

Thus, "curios or relics" need not be more than 50 years old if they are "certified curios or relics" or if the firearm is so "novel, rare, bizarre," so as to be rare or substantially more expensive than like firearms.

California law regulates transfers of "curio or relic"("C&R") firearms, but it does not define the term. Instead, California law adopts the federal definition of "curios or relics."
ATF's classification of C&R guns <50 years old does not apply in the PRK.

You have 2 choices with a C&R pistol in the prk, assuming you have a C&R license: One, buy the gun and take posession out of state and mail the appropriate registration form to the doj when you return home. Or, have a ppt done by a class -01 ffl if you're buying from another prk resident. If you have a COE in addition, you can take posession without the 10-day wait.

The PRK does NOT, as you put it, "adopt the federal definition of "curios or relics".

In the case of long guns that are at least 50 years old, ppt's are allowed without either the buyer or seller needing ffl licenses of any kind.

-hanko

jmlivingston
03-24-2006, 2:32 PM
JAFGO is correct, the state of California does indeed use the ATF definition of what a C&R is. However they can (and do) continue to further regulate firearm transactions, to include transactions conducted by C&R licensee's. That's why just a C&R license doesn't do you much good in the handgun department unless your physically taking possesion of a firearm out of state or using a C&R license in conjunction with a COE. But the definition of what items are classified as C&R definately falls back to the Feds and the ATF.

An individual should be able to purchase any otherwise legal C&R handgun that is not on the safe-handgun roster; regardless of age. Note that the ten-day wait and DROS process is not waived.

See page 46 of the PDF on the DoJ - Firearms website titled "California Firearms Law" (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf)

John

JAFGO
03-24-2006, 9:55 PM
JAFGO is correct, the state of California does indeed use the ATF definition of what a C&R is. However they can (and do) continue to further regulate firearm transactions, to include transactions conducted by C&R licensee's. That's why just a C&R license doesn't do you much good in the handgun department unless your physically taking possesion of a firearm out of state or using a C&R license in conjunction with a COE. But the definition of what items are classified as C&R definately falls back to the Feds and the ATF.

An individual should be able to purchase any otherwise legal C&R handgun that is not on the safe-handgun roster; regardless of age. Note that the ten-day wait and DROS process is not waived.

See page 46 of the PDF on the DoJ - Firearms website titled "California Firearms Law" (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/cfl.pdf)

John

Exactly! Where everyone gets confused is the FFL license classification. Even lots of 01 FFLs are clueless when it comes to C&R handgun legalities.

I verified the C&R handgun definition and import legalities with both the ATF and CA DOJ before I delved into importing C&R classified handguns to CA. Once I educated my local 01 FFL, he was happy to accept any ATF qualified C&R handgun that does not otherwise violate CA's AW laws. California does indeed use the ATF's definition of what constitutes C&R handguns.

That's one thing that gets me. I see lots of guys paying the big bucks "California premium" for PPT or consignment guns that can be imported for hundreds of dollars less if they happen to be classified as C&R. But they go ahead and do it anyway and you can't tell them different. Oh well, their money, not mine.