PDA

View Full Version : Another confused FFL


techmci
03-23-2006, 12:49 PM
I've been lurking around here for some time so I thought I'd post a recent comment from a FFL who gave me the thumbs down when I asked about doing a transfer on a lower. Please remain seated until the laughing stops. :)

(names removed of course)

" We have spoken in depth to the Department of Justice, both the Firearms Division as well as the Assault Weapons Division on this subject. Although the lowers are legal to own in California, the punchline is that as soon as you ad any part to it, the legal lower becomes an illegal assault weapon. The D.O.J. told us in the first week of March that the individual names of those lowers are on the desk of the Attorney General and thay will be put on to the ban list ASAP..
We chose to not take part in any of the sales of these lowers from the begining because we know that adding any part would make it illegal. We would end up with customers who were angry with us to say the least!
The moral to the story of the stripped lowers is that if it sounds to good to be true, it probably isn't.
If you have further questions on the legality of the lowers in question please call the DOJ Firearms division (phone number is on their web site) and they can answer them for you. "

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 1:04 PM
ignorance is bliss for these guys I guess....They get to sound like experts and you get screwed out of being able to transfer lowers conveniently and locally.

blacklisted
03-23-2006, 1:15 PM
That's one of the stupidest ones yet! :D

Thanks.

I really do wonder if they DoJ is telling the FFL that it is illegal to build them, or if the FFL is having some trouble understanding what they are saying.

It probably went something like this:

DEALER: "Can these be built up?"
DoJ: "Well...if they put a pistol grip on it before installing a fixed magazine then it's an assault weapon."
DEALER: "So, that one piece can make it an assault weapon?"
DoJ: "yes"

antarius
03-23-2006, 1:30 PM
That's one of the stupidest ones yet! :D

Thanks.

I really do wonder if they DoJ is telling the FFL that it is illegal to build them, or if the FFL is having some trouble understanding what they are saying.

It probably went something like this:

DEALER: "Can these be built up?"
DoJ: "Well...if they put a pistol grip on it before installing a fixed magazine then it's an assault weapon."
DEALER: "So, that one piece can make it an assault weapon?"
DoJ: "yes"
Even hearing a dealer say that would make me mad.

"Can you speed in that Corvette?"
"Yes"
"Then we shouldn't sell them."

The only thing a dealer should be asking the DOJ is "Can I legally sell this lower?"
"Yes"
"Okay, thank you."

Period.

What we do with them is none of the dealers business, nor is it any of his concern. I understand the "I don't want my customers to be angry" theory; But really, customers who are buying off-list lowers know what they're doing with them and the risks associated with.

bwiese
03-23-2006, 1:49 PM
If you read the DOJ Feb 1 memo, even that "official" document confuses features without regard to fixed/detachable magazines in a couple of paragraphs.

Jicko
03-23-2006, 2:01 PM
You guys make it sound like you can easily get an agent on the phone @ CA-DOJ......

I had been trying for the past week.... still.... the same old "answering machine"!!!!

bwiese
03-23-2006, 2:07 PM
You guys make it sound like you can easily get an agent on the phone @ CA-DOJ......

I had been trying for the past week.... still.... the same old "answering machine"!!!!

FFL dealers probably have an unlisted number they can call.

Kruzr
03-23-2006, 2:10 PM
He doesn't sound confused, it sounds as if he has made a business decision about his own business. Was tenpercent confused when he stopped sales? Maybe some FFL's simply don't want the added attention this brings from DOJ.

blacklisted
03-23-2006, 2:21 PM
He doesn't sound confused, it sounds as if he has made a business decision about his own business. Was tenpercent confused when he stopped sales? Maybe some FFL's simply don't want the added attention this brings from DOJ.


We chose to not take part in any of the sales of these lowers from the begining because we know that adding any part would make it illegal. We would end up with customers


Sounds confused to me. I guess one of mine is illegal now, because I put a buttstock on it.

6172crew
03-23-2006, 2:29 PM
In fact my seller has been told that if you try to put these together using the convertion kits they are illegal.

...........But my FFL who is transfering them has been told its ok as long as you pin the magazine. The DOJ is famous for mis-information and Im sure they laugh at some of the crap they come up with.:rolleyes:

Sig226
03-23-2006, 2:37 PM
The moral to the story of the stripped lowers is that if it sounds to good to be true, it probably isn't.



Donno if this was your typo, or his...But either way I liked it. :cool:

Justang
03-23-2006, 3:10 PM
Donno if this was your typo, or his...But either way I liked it. :cool:


lol, I caught that too.

-------------------

The DOJ stays vague and contradicts itself to confuse and scare the public. If they can elicit fear, they might be able to stop you from buying one of these lowers.

It's nice to know our elected officials care about the people... the government now-a-days is so Anti-American (well, atleast what I consider to be American).

bwiese
03-23-2006, 3:19 PM
He doesn't sound confused, it sounds as if he has made a business decision about his own business. Was tenpercent confused when he stopped sales? Maybe some FFL's simply don't want the added attention this brings from DOJ.

10% (Wes) stopped sales because he was TIRED. Orders would disappear (not be shipped) and he's spend hours scrambling to refill them

He survived one DOJ audit just fine. But this is a 2nd job for him - his 'day job' is being a schoolteacher. At some point he had to have a life.

If Fulton hadn't bagged on him in late December he'd probably still be in this game...

gose
03-23-2006, 3:23 PM
10% (Wes) stopped sales because he was TIRED. Orders would disappear (not be shipped) and he's spend hours scrambling to refill them

He survived one DOJ audit just fine. But this is a 2nd job for him - his 'day job' is being a schoolteacher. At some point he had to have a life.

If Fulton hadn't bagged on him in late December he'd probably still be in this game...

Now that would be a nice headline:
"Schoolteacher selling Assault Weapons at night" :)

Kruzr
03-23-2006, 3:26 PM
10% (Wes) stopped sales because he was TIRED. Orders would disappear (not be shipped) and he's spend hours scrambling to refill them

He survived one DOJ audit just fine. But this is a 2nd job for him - his 'day job' is being a schoolteacher. At some point he had to have a life.

If Fulton hadn't bagged on him in late December he'd probably still be in this game...
Bill, my point was as a business owner, like Wes, he can make his own decision for whatever reason he so chooses. Maybe this guy also had another job. Maybe this guy has a safe that is too small to accomodate more than a few guns at a time. Who knows? I don't and you don't and the poster doesn't.

IMO, to call someone confused because he makes his own decision that he believes is best for his business or his health for that matter, isn't right.

Jeff Rambo
03-23-2006, 3:30 PM
You guys make it sound like you can easily get an agent on the phone @ CA-DOJ......

I had been trying for the past week.... still.... the same old "answering machine"!!!!

I managed to get two different field agents on the phone yesterday with regards to non-lower related questions. I simply called firearms division, asked a question and was told "Hmm, not sure... I will give you the numbers to two field agents and you can call them." Whole process took 50 seconds, then I called one of the two and they answered on two rings and took care of my questions. I then called the other regarding a different question.

You know, I've never had any problems with the DOJ now that I think about it when it comes to contacting them and getting answers to questions.

tenpercentfirearms
03-23-2006, 3:35 PM
FFL dealers probably have an unlisted number they can call.LOL! That was a good one Bill.

Yeah I stopped because I was tired. It might have sounded crazy to me too in November, but this is late March and the money is good, but it is just too much time. Besides, now that everyone is jumping on board, the prices are going down. It doesn't hurt anyone when I step out of the game other than me, but I am willing to make the trade.

techmci
03-23-2006, 3:37 PM
Got another silly reply from another FFL, again the same question regarding transfer of a legal stripped receiver, here's what he had to say.

From Norcal gun dealer today:

Sorry, lower receivers are the numbered part (firearm). Stripped or all together....Can't be shipped to or sold in Calif. Thanks, Jimbo

I'll post more as they come in....

blacklisted
03-23-2006, 3:42 PM
Bill, my point was as a business owner, like Wes, he can make his own decision for whatever reason he so chooses. Maybe this guy also had another job. Maybe this guy has a safe that is too small to accomodate more than a few guns at a time. Who knows? I don't and you don't and the poster doesn't.

IMO, to call someone confused because he makes his own decision that he believes is best for his business or his health for that matter, isn't right.

I agree with you. But if this was his reason, he should just say so. He shouldn't claim that it's illegal to add parts to the gun, that amounts to confusion about the law IMO.

Kruzr
03-23-2006, 4:03 PM
And I agree with you but after working for an FFL and range, I also know that for business or liability purposes, you don't always tell the public the reason you do things.

It's an individual's prerogative to run his business any way he sees fit.....IMO.

HKdude
03-23-2006, 10:28 PM
Sounds confused to me. I guess one of mine is illegal now, because I putt a buttstock on it.

Looks like i'm going to the big house.....I put Duracoat on mine

bad, bad me:D