PDA

View Full Version : FFL vs. Buyer Rights


kmm16
03-23-2006, 6:36 AM
Here is a question for you FFLs. Under what circumstances can a FFL send back merchandise once it is received? I have a FFL threatening to send back my merchandise because his people charged me the incorrect amount ( and yes, I do have a receipt which specifies DROS fee at more than $25) if I do not pay him the difference in their fees. I have already purchased the merchandise and will not be refunded if sent back.

In addition, this is the second time that the FFL has charged me the incorrect fee without notifying me of any issues so how would I know I was being mischarged? Also, there is no posting in the shop for the correct fees. I would not have placed my order at this FFL if I knew the correct fees as their fees are quite high. What are my rights? Thanks.

BigMac
03-23-2006, 7:37 AM
He is required to post a schedule of fees.
As a buisiness man I will eat it if I blow the deal. I just bought a guy a set of night sites for his sig. He asked for a quote for a gun with NS and I quoted without. He noticed after he picked up the pistol.

I bought him night sites.. end of story. I didn't ask him for money. I even offered to have them installed for free.

If they wrote up the invoice and you paid what it said... then he needs to eat the difference. If he sends back your gun after you paid the the amount on the invoice... he will lose in small claims court.

If your dealer is so short sided as to threaten you with sending YOUR stuff to someone else after you paid for it.. because of THEIR mistake, I'd find a new dealer.. he doesn't want your business.

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 9:24 AM
Here is a question for you FFLs. Under what circumstances can a FFL send back merchandise once it is received? I have a FFL threatening to send back my merchandise because his people charged me the incorrect amount ( and yes, I do have a receipt which specifies DROS fee at more than $25) if I do not pay him the difference in their fees. I have already purchased the merchandise and will not be refunded if sent back.

In addition, this is the second time that the FFL has charged me the incorrect fee without notifying me of any issues so how would I know I was being mischarged? Also, there is no posting in the shop for the correct fees. I would not have placed my order at this FFL if I knew the correct fees as their fees are quite high. What are my rights? Thanks.

What fee are you referring to? Are you talking about a transfer fee for a firearm? If so, you are deluded and possibly dishonest if you thought you would only have to pay the state for the the work that the FFL does. All 25 of those dollars go to the state, not the FFL. The FFL can then charge any fee he wants to transfer the gun if he received it via shipping. And you say this is the second time this happened...??? are you confused about something?

PIRATE14
03-23-2006, 10:57 AM
Well if his employees made a mistake than it's really up to Owner to carry out the transaction or U can pay the correct amount....get ur money back and find a new dealer........

xenophobe
03-23-2006, 10:59 AM
Did you pay the dealer for the item, or some third party and have them send it to the dealer?

If you paid for it and had it sent to your FFL, you have to pay DROS, and he can and will charge an additional amount to cover his cost/expense/time logging the firearm in, holding it, and then delivering it to you. That charge can be anything he wants on top of that for using his license.

I agree, if you ordered the item THROUGH the dealer, paid for it through the dealer, and they screwed up? They have to eat that.

rips31
03-23-2006, 11:01 AM
i'm missing something, too. is this a ffl transfer or are you buying from the ffl's stock? if it's a xfer, then they can charge you whatever they want over the $25.

but if you got an quote/invoice and paid it and now they want more, then, like bigmac said, they'll lose in small claims court. that and you probably should look for another ffl. if this is the 2nd time, don't expect it to get better.

antarius
03-23-2006, 11:01 AM
Did you pay the dealer for the item, or some third party and have them send it to the dealer?

If you paid for it and had it sent to your FFL, you have to pay DROS, and he can and will charge an additional amount to cover his cost/expense/time logging the firearm in, holding it, and then delivering it to you. That charge can be anything he wants on top of that for using his license.

I agree, if you ordered the item THROUGH the dealer, paid for it through the dealer, and they screwed up? They have to eat that.
I thought the dealer can't charge more than $10.00+DOJ feels for a PPT?

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.htm#18G

Please, correct me if I'm wrong; Frankly, I think it'd be ridiculous to have the DOJ limit what a dealer can or cannot charge to use their license, but I thought that was the rule....

xenophobe
03-23-2006, 11:03 AM
That's not a PPT.

A PPT is when you and the person you're doing the transaction with are at the dealer at the same time.

A FFL to FFL transfer is when you have one dealer send another dealer a firearm. There is no limit to the additional fee.

antarius
03-23-2006, 11:06 AM
That's not a PPT.

A PPT is when you and the person you're doing the transaction with are at the dealer at the same time.

A FFL to FFL transfer is when you have one dealer send another dealer a firearm. There is no limit to the additional fee.
Thanks for clearing that up.

There shouldn't be a limit for PPT's either, IMO.

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 11:07 AM
I thought the dealer can't charge more than $10.00+DOJ feels for a PPT?

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.htm#18G

Please, correct me if I'm wrong; Frankly, I think it'd be ridiculous to have the DOJ limit what a dealer can or cannot charge to use their license, but I thought that was the rule....

Its not a PPT. Just b/c you bought the gun from another owner some place else does not make it a PPT. If the gun was shipped to the FFL (by a private owner or another FFL or a manufacturer), then it is NOT a PPT and he can charge whatever he wants.

So, we are correcting you since you are wrong.

So many people confuse PPT's with standard dealer transfers. Think of it this way, there are FACE TO FACE transfers where the buyer and seller are both IN THE STORE (unless consignment) when the transfer takes places, and all other transfers. In the FACE TO FACE transfer, the FFL is limited to charging 10 bucks (plus 25 DROS), in the dealer transfer, they can charge whatever they want.

I bet your FFL is frustrated with you.

antarius
03-23-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm not making any noise... what are you talking about? I just asked a question...

Perhaps you're confusing me with the original thread starter?

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 11:09 AM
I'm not making any noise... what are you talking about? I just asked a question...

Perhaps you're confusing me with the original thread starter?

yes, I was....my fault.

antarius
03-23-2006, 11:11 AM
yes, I was....my fault.
No worries. :)

kmm16
03-23-2006, 11:56 AM
Thanks for all the feedback. The amount I paid was in excess of $70 for the fees, which included DROS and this is why I put >$25 so the comment about dishonesty is not necessary. And yes I purchased from a vendor and used the FFL to receive and do the paperwork. The problem I have is that the FFL did not give me any notification of more fees after I already purchased material from my source and had it sent to this FFL...and yes they knew the quantity at DROS as you must specify this when doing the paperwork. As I said I have a credit card receipt that says 1 DROS for >$70.00. In addition, his own staff told me the fee was >$70.00 and charged me this fee. This is the second time I have done this type of transaction with this dealer but the first time getting any notification of fee differences.

The DROS is already >7days through process and I can't really return the material without taking a hit for the material and DROS fee. It's a little late to tell me about fee problems after money has changed hands.

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 12:02 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. The amount I paid was in excess of $70 for the fees, which included DROS and this is why I put >$25 so the comment about dishonesty is not necessary. And yes I purchased from a vendor and used the FFL to receive and do the paperwork. The problem I have is that the FFL did not give me any notification of more fees after I already purchased material from my source and had it sent to this FFL...and yes they knew the quantity at DROS as you must specify this when doing the paperwork. As I said I have a credit card receipt that says 1 DROS for >$70.00. In addition, his own staff told me the fee was >$70.00 and charged me this fee. This is the second time I have done this type of transaction with this dealer but the first time getting any notification of fee differences.

The DROS is already >7days through process and I can't really return the material without taking a hit for the material and DROS fee. It's a little late to tell me about fee problems after money has changed hands.

Your communication skills are lacking...how much did the FFL originally tell you he would charge to receive and transfer the gun? How much is he saying you owe him now? Is it different? How does a receipt read " greater than $70.00" as you keep saying above? Was it 70 or more than 70? You do know that ">70" means "greater than 70" right?
How much have you paid him? How much more does he want...
You have lost us.

xenophobe
03-23-2006, 12:06 PM
I'm confused too.


So you were expecting the Dealer to do your transfer for free? Wow... I wish I could have my lawn mowed for the cost of gas... care to volunteer? lol

kmm16
03-23-2006, 12:30 PM
Guys - sorry for the confusion. The exact number is $79. I'm not sure how this helps you but if it does so be it. And yes transfer was communicated and no other fees were discussed. As I said I did the same transaction earlier with the dealer. You guys have lost me totally regarding fees. I thought the only CA required fee was the $25 for DROS. All other fees are at the discretion of the FFL. So isn't $79 - $25 = $54 the FFLs fees for all the paperwork? What other fee is there that I am missing?

timmy8151
03-23-2006, 12:36 PM
Guys - sorry for the confusion. The exact number is $79. I'm not sure how this helps you but if it does so be it. And yes transfer was communicated and no other fees were discussed. As I said I did the same transaction earlier with the dealer. You guys have lost me totally regarding fees. I thought the only CA required fee was the $25 for DROS. All other fees are at the discretion of the FFL. So isn't $79 - $25 = $54 the FFLs fees for all the paperwork? What other fee is there that I am missing?

If your FFL did a transfer, then they can charge whatever fees you want. You're getting a PPT mixed up with a Transfer.

As posted above the FFL can only charge you $10+ $25 (DROS) for a PPT (Face to Face).

However, you had your FFL do a transfer and there is no set limit on what they can charge you. Of the $79 you were charged, $25 of that was for the DROS. So the remaining $54 is the FFL's fee. Heck, the FFL could charge $1000 for a transfer if they wanted.

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 12:47 PM
Guys - sorry for the confusion. The exact number is $79. I'm not sure how this helps you but if it does so be it. And yes transfer was communicated and no other fees were discussed. As I said I did the same transaction earlier with the dealer. You guys have lost me totally regarding fees. I thought the only CA required fee was the $25 for DROS. All other fees are at the discretion of the FFL. So isn't $79 - $25 = $54 the FFLs fees for all the paperwork? What other fee is there that I am missing?

There is no other fee, that sounds about right for the going rate....we just can't figure out why you are all upset at your FFL? Is it that he didn't tell you the total would be $79 ahead of time? Did you think it would only be 25.00 bucks out the door? Why are you displeased with the FFL and asking about Buyer's v. FFL rights?

Here is a question for you FFLs. Under what circumstances can a FFL send back merchandise once it is received? I have a FFL threatening to send back my merchandise because his people charged me the incorrect amount ( and yes, I do have a receipt which specifies DROS fee at more than $25) if I do not pay him the difference in their fees. I have already purchased the merchandise and will not be refunded if sent back.


WHAT INCORRECT AMOUNT???????????? How much did he say initially? How much is he saying now....once again, you need to understand that we have not spoken to your FFL, we don't know the situation...work on your communication skills. We only know what you tell us. All we know now is that the FFL charged you 79 bucks total for the transfer and that you are all butt-hurt over it.

In addition, this is the second time that the FFL has charged me the incorrect fee without notifying me of any issues so how would I know I was being mischarged?

What did he NOT notify you about?

ligamentum flavum
03-23-2006, 12:48 PM
Guys - sorry for the confusion. The exact number is $79. I'm not sure how this helps you but if it does so be it. And yes transfer was communicated and no other fees were discussed. As I said I did the same transaction earlier with the dealer. You guys have lost me totally regarding fees. I thought the only CA required fee was the $25 for DROS. All other fees are at the discretion of the FFL. So isn't $79 - $25 = $54 the FFLs fees for all the paperwork? What other fee is there that I am missing?

it sounds like you paid $79 for a non-PPT DROS. Sounds reasonable.

However, now the dealer says they undercharged you? Are they saying that you must pay additional fees to "complete" the DROS otherwise they'll send the item back to the original seller?

If that's the case, it sounds really fishy on the part of the FFL. If they undercharged you, it's their fault. Sounds like they're using your paid-for item as leverage to get you to pay more.

How much more do they want?

kmm16
03-23-2006, 1:04 PM
Understood. This was not a PPT this was a standard I want a gun shipped to X FFL deal. So the charge was $79, which I paid. So the fee I was charged was $54 by the FFL. Again I think there is some misunderstanding about the base question which is what are my rights? If he ships my merchandise back for not paying more than the negotiated fee ( of which I have a receipt ) what are my options? Sue? I will not get my money back from the seller.

By the way, this has nothing to do with my DROS not going through or lack of qualification on my part to purchase. He just wants to charge me for his own employees mistakes.

xenophobe
03-23-2006, 1:12 PM
Ugh.... you really do need to learn how to tell a story...

So you were charged $79.
You were also charged $54 and did not pay?

WTF?

Okay, you bought a gun from someone out of state... you paid them for the firearm and shipping.

How much did the dealer TELL you he was going to charge you?

How much did the dealer ACTUALLY charge you?

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 1:21 PM
I think I got it now... (but you are the WORST storyteller ever).

You were originally charged 54 bucks....but what the FFL didn't tell you was that is what he was personally charging you for his fee, that is what he was going to keep for himself. He didn't tell you that this didn't include the DROS fee of 25 bucks (actually, he probably did tell you, but it went in one ear and out the other).

The FFL charged the 54 up front b/c that was his fee and didn't charge the 25 bucks yet b/c he didn't charge that until the gun was received and DROSed.

My guess is you didn't understand the dealer properly that the 54 bucks was the dealer fee and you still owed the DROS for a total of $79.00 (which is about the going rate by the way). And since you mentioned that this is the SECOND TIME this has happened leads me to believe that you are being REALLY dense about this. Pay the 25 more bucks, and don't do this a THIRD time unless you understand the fees.

I bet your receipt for 54 bucks says DEALER FEE and you still owe the DROS fee...so, you are wrong, and if I were the FFL, I would probably not send your gun back, but would tell you to never come into my store again.

As far as your rights go? The FFL could probably send your crap back, but probably won't since it is only over 25 bucks...I am SO glad I am not the FFL or employee dealing with you.

blacklisted
03-23-2006, 1:26 PM
I think I got it now... (but you are the WORST storyteller ever).

You were originally charged 54 bucks....but what the FFL didn't tell you was that is what he was personally charging you for his fee, that is what he was going to keep for himself. He didn't tell you that this didn't include the DROS fee of 25 bucks (actually, he probably did tell you, but it went in one ear and out the other).

The FFL charged the 54 up front b/c that was his fee and didn't charge the 25 bucks yet b/c he didn't charge that until the gun was received and DROSed.

My guess is you didn't understand the dealer properly that the 54 bucks was the dealer fee and you still owed the DROS for a total of $79.00 (which is about the going rate by the way). And since you mentioned that this is the SECOND TIME this has happened leads me to believe that you are being REALLY dense about this. Pay the 25 more bucks, and don't do this a THIRD time unless you understand the fees.

I bet your receipt for 54 bucks says DEALER FEE and you still owe the DROS fee...so, you are wrong, and if I were the FFL, I would probably not send your gun back, but would tell you to never come into my store again.

As far as your rights go? The FFL could probably send your crap back, but probably won't since it is only over 25 bucks...I am SO glad I am not the FFL or employee dealing with you.

I don't know if that's right...I'm still confused :confused:

kmm16, what did he overcharge you on?

What was the initial amount you agreed to pay?

What was the final amount you ended up paying?

rips31
03-23-2006, 1:32 PM
I think I got it now... (but you are the WORST storyteller ever).

You were originally charged 54 bucks....but what the FFL didn't tell you was that is what he was personally charging you for his fee, that is what he was going to keep for himself. He didn't tell you that this didn't include the DROS fee of 25 bucks (actually, he probably did tell you, but it went in one ear and out the other).

The FFL charged the 54 up front b/c that was his fee and didn't charge the 25 bucks yet b/c he didn't charge that until the gun was received and DROSed.

My guess is you didn't understand the dealer properly that the 54 bucks was the dealer fee and you still owed the DROS for a total of $79.00 (which is about the going rate by the way). And since you mentioned that this is the SECOND TIME this has happened leads me to believe that you are being REALLY dense about this. Pay the 25 more bucks, and don't do this a THIRD time unless you understand the fees.

I bet your receipt for 54 bucks says DEALER FEE and you still owe the DROS fee...so, you are wrong, and if I were the FFL, I would probably not send your gun back, but would tell you to never come into my store again.

As far as your rights go? The FFL could probably send your crap back, but probably won't since it is only over 25 bucks...I am SO glad I am not the FFL or employee dealing with you.
hrm...my understanding from what he said was that his receipt shows $79 (the negotiated amt for the ffl xfer), $25 of which is dros. but the dealer now wants him to pay more money. unless the $79 was for his fee, not including the $25 dros, in which case you still owe him $25.

that being said, how much more do they want? do you really want the gun? if so, and you can stomach the amount, pay the damn thing and never go back there again (i.e. find another ffl).

and i agree...you're the worst storyteller ever. :rolleyes:

antarius
03-23-2006, 1:33 PM
I'm reading this different than anyone else. So far this is what I have:

He had an FFL transfer done, paid a total of $79.00 to do it. This included the DROS fee, and one could assume a $54.00 profit for the FFL. Then (if I'm gathering this correctly) the dealer asked for an additional fee before releasing the firearm to the buyer; Presumably because the FFL charged him less than he normally would have.

So now you have a dealer saying "Yes, you paid $79, but we normally charge $XXX, so you have to pay the difference before we'll release the firearm."

Is that what's happening?

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 1:39 PM
I'm reading this different than anyone else. So far this is what I have:

He had an FFL transfer done, paid a total of $79.00 to do it. This included the DROS fee, and one could assume a $54.00 profit for the FFL. Then (if I'm gathering this correctly) the dealer asked for an additional fee before releasing the firearm to the buyer; Presumably because the FFL charged him less than he normally would have.

So now you have a dealer saying "Yes, you paid $79, but we normally charge $XXX, so you have to pay the difference before we'll release the firearm."

Is that what's happening?

well, if that is the case, then that is really dishonest, and I would probably just pay the money (as long as it wasn't exorbitant) and NEVER go back there again and tell everyone I know never to go to that FFL.

antarius
03-23-2006, 1:51 PM
well, if that is the case, then that is really dishonest, and I would probably just pay the money (as long as it wasn't exorbitant) and NEVER go back there again and tell everyone I know never to go to that FFL.
Yeah exactly..

Unfortunately we may never know what's actually going on; Because the original author sounds like English is his third, or fourth, language.

Can't understand a thing he says!

kenc9
03-23-2006, 1:53 PM
Boy you guys can peck it to death...HAHA

The guy just needs to know what to expect then let him go do his own deal.

1)The dealer charges a transfer fee. $XX.XX

2) does the DROS paperwork another fee $XX.XX

These added together total the above fees...period...very simple

Just to make everybody sick my 01 charges me 35.00 for dealer fee and DROS paperwork :)

-ken

ohsmily
03-23-2006, 2:03 PM
Just to make everybody sick my 01 charges me 35.00 for dealer fee and DROS paperwork :)

-ken

I pay 45.00 (he gets 20 per gun, no matter how many I transfer with him plus 25 DROS). That is the best deal around here nowadays. He is a "private" FFL out of his garage AND he transferred my lowers for the same price. :D

bear308
03-23-2006, 2:08 PM
I think I have it,

1. He went to the FFL and paid for the transfer ($79)
2. The DROS was started before the shipment arrived.
3. Now the shipment arrived and it's three or four instead of one, (I'm thinking receivers)
4. Now the FFL wants more $$ or is going to send the extras back.

Bad story telling, no need to be secretive here, just come out and say it.

Then again I could be completely wrong.

kmm16
03-23-2006, 2:14 PM
Perhaps you guys are right and I need more improvement in story telling. Anyway Antarius and Bigmac were correct. We agreed on $79 which included the DROS fee ( and as I said it is on the receipt ) and now he is telling me to pay him another $150 which was not agreed upon.

blacklisted
03-23-2006, 2:15 PM
Perhaps you guys are right and I need more improvement in story telling. Anyway Antarius and Bigmac were correct. We agreed on $79 which included the DROS fee ( and as I said it is on the receipt ) and now he is telling me to pay him another $150 which was not agreed upon.

That's terrible! So, you got 3 more and he wants to charge 54 each for them? Also make sure that he isn't trying to charge a seperate DROS fee for each.

xenophobe
03-23-2006, 2:25 PM
bear308, that sounds like a complete picture....


kmm16, is this what happened:



1. He went to the FFL and paid for the transfer ($79)
2. The DROS was started before the shipment arrived.
3. Now the shipment arrived and it's three or four instead of one, (I'm thinking receivers)
4. Now the FFL wants more $$ or is going to send the extras back.


If so, I can't blame him. We charge $50/per item.

antarius
03-23-2006, 2:27 PM
Perhaps you guys are right and I need more improvement in story telling. Anyway Antarius and Bigmac were correct. We agreed on $79 which included the DROS fee ( and as I said it is on the receipt ) and now he is telling me to pay him another $150 which was not agreed upon.
So he's saying you owed $54+DROS fee's for each one (or at the very least $54.00 for each one plus DROS once), and you're saying you were told it was $54+DROS once, total.

In all honesty, $54 + $25 (DROS) is pretty cheap to transfer 3 guns, but nonetheless, if he didn't tell you before hand -- I wouldn't pay it.

Just my 0.02.

Unless of course you told him it was only 1, and it turns out you shipped in 3 or 4... then yea, $50 a piece (or so) doesn't seem bad.

461
03-23-2006, 2:30 PM
My head hurts.

kmm16
03-23-2006, 2:36 PM
Antarius and Xenophobe you are correct. This is what happened. The only thing different in your interpretations is that the employee did know how many I purchased because you have to declare it during DROS and fill out the multiple forms ( I forget the name of the form ). There was one DROS done for multiple items. It was very clear. In addition, there was no way for me to know if things were being done correctly or not as the service prices were not displayed. It really was an honest mistake and if I had known the additional fees I would not have used that FFL.

So again, what are the legal ramifications for sending back my merchandise after completing a transaction such as this? I'm not looking to screw somebody, but I feel like I'm the one getting screwed over for the mistake of the employees.

kenc9
03-23-2006, 2:54 PM
You see? The trick is to not get into this problem in the first place. Go to the FFL and find out what is really going on face to face. Tell him I thought bla bla bla...He'll say yes but bla bla bla. Buy some stuff from him if he drops the extra fees or something...The key in life is to learn how to negotiate things and not get mad.

Then just pay the man and get on with it. Anything you do now will just cost you more than this.

Call it a lesson learned, life is to darn short to go around mad.
I bet after you talk with the dealer you'll see what happened.

-ken

rips31
03-23-2006, 3:11 PM
geez...here i thought we were talking about 1 gun, not multiple lowers. lol. so if he wants $150 more for 3 lowers, it seems reasonable. pay it and move on. maybe next time get everything written in a contract-type document to avoid confusion.

kmm16
03-23-2006, 10:10 PM
To be quite honest with all of you, the FFL exploded at me on the phone. The strange part was he was blaming his employees for not letting him know about the fact that my order was " more than normal. " But he held me accountable because I should have known that he charges an extra fee per gun because I used him as my FFL 3-4 years ago. This was his justification that I should pay him extra. As I said before, there is no inidication or listing in his shop of fees so I had no idea of any fees besides the $79 I was quoted.

So in regards to negotiation, already done that's how we got from $300 he originally requested down to $150. In reality I don't think I owe him a dime.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#8

13. How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?
The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.

(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)

blacklisted
03-23-2006, 10:12 PM
To be quite honest with all of you, the FFL exploded at me on the phone. The strange part was he was blaming his employees for not letting him know about the fact that my order was " more than normal. " But he held me accountable because I should have known that he charges an extra fee per gun because I used him as my FFL 3-4 years ago. This was his justification that I should pay him extra. As I said before, there is no inidication or listing in his shop of fees so I had no idea of any fees besides the $79 I was quoted.

So in regards to negotiation, already done that's how we got from $300 he originally requested down to $150. In reality I don't think I owe him a dime.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#8

13. How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?
The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.

(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)

300 dollars in addition to the original amount you payed? Wow!

WallySparx
03-23-2006, 10:30 PM
There shouldn't be a limit for PPT's either, IMO.
wouldn't this be like the ultimate extortion/scam? the government insists we can only transfer guns thru an FFL. and along with that law, in your opinion, they should be able to charge whatever amount they want?

blacklisted
03-23-2006, 10:49 PM
wouldn't this be like the ultimate extortion/scam? the government insists we can only transfer guns thru an FFL. and along with that law, in your opinion, they should be able to charge whatever amount they want?

I think they have that maximum so that people don't decide that the dealer costs too much and they'd be better off just doing a transfer without the FFL. Maybe.

kantstudien
03-23-2006, 11:53 PM
Do your dealer a favor and stop giving him business. I am sure you will not be missed. This isn't rocket science, if you can't understand what the fees are, then don't buy guns. Please. For the children.

socalguns
03-24-2006, 12:12 AM
Here is a question for you FFLs. Under what circumstances can a FFL send back merchandise once it is received? I have a FFL threatening to send back my merchandise because his people charged me the incorrect amount ( and yes, I do have a receipt which specifies DROS fee at more than $25) if I do not pay him the difference in their fees. I have already purchased the merchandise and will not be refunded if sent back.

In addition, this is the second time that the FFL has charged me the incorrect fee without notifying me of any issues so how would I know I was being mischarged? Also, there is no posting in the shop for the correct fees. I would not have placed my order at this FFL if I knew the correct fees as their fees are quite high. What are my rights? Thanks.

Since you seem to have trouble communicating the situation,
you can start by uploading a picture of the receipt,
and we'll tell you if there is anything hinky going on.

phobos512
03-24-2006, 9:17 AM
For the last two people who are coming late to the game here, the story goes like this:

1. Original Poster (OP) bought some lowers through FFL to FFL transfer, agreed on a fee with his FFL.
2. OP does DROS paperwork indicating X number of lowers are coming.
3. Lowers come in, OP's FFL says, wait a sec, I thought it was only 1 lower, there are X lowers here, you need to pay me more!
4. OP says, DROS paperwork says there were X coming, we agreed on a fee for X coming, I have a receipt that shows as much, now you want to charge me more? Blow me, give me my lowers.
5. OP's FFL says, it ain't my fault, it's my silly employees, give me more money or I'll send your legally purchased merchandise back to the seller FFL.
6. OP says blow me, give me my lowers, again, comes to CalGuns and tells an extraordinarily convoluted story that several people read and scratch their heads at before finally figuring out what's up.
7. Some people think OP was right with the blow me, give me my lowers, because he has proof of all he is saying, some think he should give the FFL the extra money and never do business again, some think the FFL is entirely within his rights. I agree with OP personally.

The end.

:D

xrMike
03-24-2006, 11:13 AM
For the last two people who are coming late to the game here, the story goes like this:

1. Original Poster (OP) bought some lowers through FFL to FFL transfer, agreed on a fee with his FFL.
2. etc.
The end.

:D
If the above condensation is accurate, I'd have to agree with the original poster too.

However, if OP were me, and I got a really good purchase price on the lowers, and if we're only talking about paying another $150 or so to take possession (or they get shipped back), I'd probably just pay the bastard and make it really really clear that he gets no more business from me, ever.

rips31
03-24-2006, 11:29 AM
For the last two people who are coming late to the game here, the story goes like this:
this was, perhaps, the best version yet. i'd probably pay more, file a complaint w/the bbb, and sue in small claims court.

gmcem50
03-24-2006, 12:24 PM
If the above condensation is accurate, I'd have to agree with the original poster too.

However, if OP were me, and I got a really good purchase price on the lowers, and if we're only talking about paying another $150 or so to take possession (or they get shipped back), I'd probably just pay the bastard and make it really really clear that he gets no more business from me, ever.

I agree, but would take it one more step; tell the FFL politely that in addition to no more business from you, you are also going to use every opportunity you have from now on to bad-mouth, criticize and generally wage a campaign of negative publicity on his behalf. But it is CRUCIAL that you do it in a polite and calm manner; do not get angry or obnoxious.

This method has worked for me in the past. It takes a LOT to get me riled up, but when a merchant pisses me off and refuses to be rational, the gloves come off big time.

gmcem50
03-24-2006, 12:31 PM
this was, perhaps, the best version yet. i'd probably pay more, file a complaint w/the bbb, and sue in small claims court.

The BBB is a joke; a bunch of shifty salesmen trying to raise cash for memberships to their organization with ZERO credibility or standards. They called me trying to solicit my membership, promising their endorsement of my business in return. When I asked how they knew if I was a reputable businessman or not, they hung up on me.

Mesa Tactical
03-24-2006, 12:36 PM
wouldn't this be like the ultimate extortion/scam? the government insists we can only transfer guns thru an FFL. and along with that law, in your opinion, they should be able to charge whatever amount they want?

They can charge no more than the FFL down the street.

dawson8r
03-25-2006, 12:30 AM
I thought my FFL's fees were a bit high at first. But after reading all this I think his rates are fair:

$25 DROS (given)
$45 txfer for 1st firearm
$20 each additional firearm

My only mistake was not buying all my lowers at one time. Oh well, I had to see what PIRATE14 was stocking next!