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derek@thepackingrat.net
11-09-2010, 8:42 AM
Wow, sounds like they need an appointment system for this step as well. I plan to be there next Tuesday myself, so thanks for the tip. The letter says to shop up 9:00-11:00 and you got turned away prior to 9:26 (when you posted). Crazy.

FYI, the parking lot across the street was full. I had to circle the block to find a spot.

Must've been a busy court day...

Get there early.

harbinger007
11-09-2010, 8:45 AM
Okay, thanks again, I'll shoot for 7:30 and camp out! Maybe I'll bring some coffee and we can get a CGN group together and draw straws so we don't knock one another over getting in line. ;)

BobB35
11-09-2010, 9:06 AM
Tried to finalize the process myself and was turned away also. Showed up at 9:15am and there were already 20 to 25 people sitting in the room waiting. Crazy that there is a 2 hour window once per week to submit paper work. Heck sitting in that room was over half the permits issued in either 2008 or 2009.

Seems to me this problems is only going to get worse and worse over time as people get turned away to come back the following week meet up with those people that are getting approved every month.

Kind of a joke...the Sac Sheriff has so underestimated demand that this is the result. Make you wonder "Is a right delayed a right denied?"

I wasted a day of vacation...$10 for parking and now have to do it all over again next week.

Anyone at CGF willing to send a letter to the Sheriff letting them know that this backlog is occurring. These type of simple things are sometime beyond the realm of the Lofty LEOs.

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 9:18 AM
I was turned away too. I ditched class early, showed up around 9:30AM, must have been 20-ish people there. Deputy promptly said 'Come back next Tuesday'...

It's rather frustrating, because I can't really ditch too many classes and it says you have 30 days. I'm planning to show up at about 7:30 on the 23rd and see if I can finalize it all then.

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-09-2010, 9:20 AM
There's still time to go to the shooting range ;)

Though I don't count on CGF doing anything at this point, it would be awesome to find a solution to the backlog.

Definitely not a friendly process for the working, or socio-economically disadvantaged individuals.

Tried to finalize the process myself and was turned away also. Showed up at 9:15am and there were already 20 to 25 people sitting in the room waiting. Crazy that there is a 2 hour window once per week to submit paper work. Heck sitting in that room was over half the permits issued in either 2008 or 2009.

Seems to me this problems is only going to get worse and worse over time as people get turned away to come back the following week meet up with those people that are getting approved every month.

Kind of a joke...the Sac Sheriff has so underestimated demand that this is the result. Make you wonder "Is a right delayed a right denied?"

I wasted a day of vacation...$10 for parking and now have to do it all over again next week.

Anyone at CGF willing to send a letter to the Sheriff letting them know that this backlog is occurring. These type of simple things are sometime beyond the realm of the Lofty LEOs.

tiki
11-09-2010, 9:24 AM
It's rather frustrating, because I can't really ditch too many classes and it says you have 30 days. I'm planning to show up at about 7:30 on the 23rd and see if I can finalize it all then.

I wouldn't have posted that. :)

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 9:25 AM
Seems to me this problems is only going to get worse and worse over time as people get turned away to come back the following week meet up with those people that are getting approved every month.

Yeap.

A small 2 hour window, 1 day a week to turn in the paperwork isn't enough to hand the flow of applicants showing up.

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 9:26 AM
I wouldn't have posted that. :)

lol, so you'll be there at 7:25 eh?

joe_sun
11-09-2010, 9:37 AM
Then I'll be there at 6am.

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 9:42 AM
Then I'll be there at 6am.


I'll bring you some coffee

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-09-2010, 9:46 AM
I'll be camping overnight with a pink snuggie.

tiki
11-09-2010, 9:46 AM
lol, so you'll be there at 7:25 eh?

Ha ha ha. I would get down there earlier just to beat all the other guys that read your post and decide to get down there at 7:25. ;)
I already met with Amber and finalized my stuff. When I went in, I had badge #1. :) Two hour window with the number of approvals coming out of there, I did the math before I headed down there.

Then I'll be there at 6am.

Yeah, like this guy. Ha ha ha ha. Pretty soon it will be like getting concert tickets. They'll come out to the line and hand out numbers and whoever gets number one becomes the front of the line.

harbinger007
11-09-2010, 9:48 AM
This is crazy. I've got to drive 45 miles to get there and can't be assured of getting it taken care of. A 2 hour window is not reasonable. There's probably 50 people that want to go next week now.

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 9:51 AM
Ha ha ha. I would get down there earlier just to beat all the other guys that read your post and decide to get down there at 7:25. ;)
I already met with Amber and finalized my stuff. When I went in, I had badge #1. :) Two hour window with the number of approvals coming out of there, I did the math before I headed down there..

Which is what I wanted to do and I expected this... So Im not surprised. I was optomistic (spelling?) though and hoped I could squeeze in even if I needed to wait 3 hours.

BobB35
11-09-2010, 9:58 AM
I was turned away too. I ditched class early, showed up around 9:30AM, must have been 20-ish people there. Deputy promptly said 'Come back next Tuesday'...

It's rather frustrating, because I can't really ditch too many classes and it says you have 30 days. I'm planning to show up at about 7:30 on the 23rd and see if I can finalize it all then.

Forgot about the 30 day window...this is going to be a major problem in the next month or so as peoples 30 days expire.

Wish they wouldn't have settled the lawsuit until all of these little bugs got worked out of the system.

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-09-2010, 9:59 AM
When I arrived at the office last week, there was only one other person (I didn't have my letter, but I knew it was already sent out -- I tried. haha.). I'm hoping that renewals won't be as difficult assuming we must renew around the time we are issued.

Shenaniguns
11-09-2010, 10:06 AM
Yeap.

A small 2 hour window, 1 day a week to turn in the paperwork isn't enough to hand the flow of applicants showing up.


Didn't you say "Are you kidding me?" as you were walking out?

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 10:12 AM
Didn't you say "Are you kidding me?" as you were walking out?

Not to the deputy, although I may have muttered it under my breath on the way out.

Shenaniguns
11-09-2010, 10:16 AM
Not to the deputy, although I may have muttered it under my breath on the way out.


That was a loud mutter lol

thebronze
11-09-2010, 11:23 AM
I got there about 8:40 or so and didn't get seen until about 10:00. GET THERE EARLY!
People go up in the order they got there, so the earlier you get there, the better.

Once up, all I did was turn in my training cert, Livescan paper and check. I signed the permit and gave two thumbs. I was up there about 8 mins (if that), about the same as when I turned in my application. Amber said I should have it by the end of next week at the latest.

Did I mention GET THERE EARLY?

thebronze
11-09-2010, 11:23 AM
BTW, GET THERE EARLY.

thebronze
11-09-2010, 11:24 AM
That was a loud mutter lol

I thought so too! LOL!

Lone_Gunman
11-09-2010, 11:26 AM
I'm thinking I better get there Monday afternoon. Look for the tent and the BBQ.

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-09-2010, 11:33 AM
Tailgate party, anyone?

jb7706
11-09-2010, 2:54 PM
You can bet that the SO knows there is a backlog and that guys are getting turned away. It sucks for now but give them time to get things figured out. It takes time for bureaucracies to change direction, and the SO is in the middle of an about face.

Remind yourself that you are in a shall issue county now, you at least have an approval and will eventually get your permit. You are better off than our brothers in LA/SF/Alameda that have nothing but faint hope for now. Isn't it better for us to be inconvenienced for a while so that CGF/SAF can get the rest of the state freed?

I could hardly stand the wait when I was in your shoes, I know how it feels. I still take my permit out and look at it from time to time just to reflect on how awesome it is to actually have a Sac County CA CCW. It feels good, even more so after the time and trouble it took to get it.


Tried to finalize the process myself and was turned away also. Showed up at 9:15am and there were already 20 to 25 people sitting in the room waiting. Crazy that there is a 2 hour window once per week to submit paper work. Heck sitting in that room was over half the permits issued in either 2008 or 2009.

Seems to me this problems is only going to get worse and worse over time as people get turned away to come back the following week meet up with those people that are getting approved every month.

Kind of a joke...the Sac Sheriff has so underestimated demand that this is the result. Make you wonder "Is a right delayed a right denied?"

I wasted a day of vacation...$10 for parking and now have to do it all over again next week.

Anyone at CGF willing to send a letter to the Sheriff letting them know that this backlog is occurring. These type of simple things are sometime beyond the realm of the Lofty LEOs.

BobB35
11-09-2010, 2:58 PM
You can bet that the SO knows there is a backlog and that guys are getting turned away. It sucks for now but give them time to get things figured out. It takes time for bureaucracies to change direction, and the SO is in the middle of an about face.

Remind yourself that you are in a shall issue county now, you at least have an approval and will eventually get your permit. You are better off than our brothers in LA/SF/Alameda that have nothing but faint hope for now. Isn't it better for us to be inconvenienced for a while so that CGF/SAF can get the rest of the state freed?

I could hardly stand the wait when I was in your shoes, I know how it feels. I still take my permit out and look at it from time to time just to reflect on how awesome it is to actually have a Sac County CA CCW. It feels good, even more so after the time and trouble it took to get it.

I understand all of this, but when you have something that is predictable and easily corrected yet allowed to continue it is irksome. Not to mention the 30 day window. I have zero faith in the Sac Sheriff to do what is right, they don't care. Jones will be no better.

Wonder what will happen if the 30 days is breached?

thebronze
11-09-2010, 3:00 PM
You can bet that the SO knows there is a backlog and that guys are getting turned away. It sucks for now but give them time to get things figured out. It takes time for bureaucracies to change direction, and the SO is in the middle of an about face.

Remind yourself that you are in a shall issue county now, you at least have an approval and will eventually get your permit. You are better off than our brothers in LA/SF/Alameda that have nothing but faint hope for now. Isn't it better for us to be inconvenienced for a while so that CGF/SAF can get the rest of the state freed?

I could hardly stand the wait when I was in your shoes, I know how it feels. I still take my permit out and look at it from time to time just to reflect on how awesome it is to actually have a Sac County CA CCW. It feels good, even more so after the time and trouble it took to get it.

This.

thebronze
11-09-2010, 3:03 PM
I understand all of this, but when you have something that is predictable and easily corrected yet allowed to continue it is irksome. Not to mention the 30 day window. I have zero faith in the Sac Sheriff to do what is right, they don't care. Jones will be no better.

That's true. Four more years of McGinness.


Wonder what will happen if the 30 days is breached?

Nothing.


It's the government...

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 3:20 PM
I thought so too! LOL!

Either you got me confused with someone else then, or I have horrible memory. What was this loud mutter person wearing?

thebronze
11-09-2010, 3:22 PM
Either you got me confused with someone else then, or I have horrible memory. What was this loud mutter person wearing?

Dunno, I wasn't paying attention. I don't think it was you, unless you went to Etchell's class the weekend before last.

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 3:46 PM
Dunno, I wasn't paying attention. I don't think it was you, unless you went to Etchell's class the weekend before last.

Definitely not me then...

harbinger007
11-09-2010, 4:22 PM
I understand all of this, but when you have something that is predictable and easily corrected yet allowed to continue it is irksome. Not to mention the 30 day window. I have zero faith in the Sac Sheriff to do what is right, they don't care. Jones will be no better.

Wonder what will happen if the 30 days is breached?

I wrote to Amber about this today. The 30 day window is not a firm deadline. She said: "The 30 days is a general timeline that we put on the letters so that files stay active, instead of building up and collecting dust because applicants haven’t completed the process.. "

She also said she's trying to increase the hours but there are no plans for changes at the present time. She said she is very sorry for the inconvenience.

Considering where we've come from, I think they're doing a great job. It's to be expected that their are some pains along the way.

BobB35
11-09-2010, 4:49 PM
[QUOTE=thebronze;5273016]Dunno, I wasn't paying attention. I don't think it was you, unless you went to Etchell's class the weekend before last.[/QUOTE
That may have been me. I do remember being somewhat taken aback at just spending $10 after driving for 45 minutes to be told to go away by someone text messaging on their cell phone. I understand the issues they are having, but I don't have a lot of patience for incompetence or delaying tactics. Every interaction with the govt usually ends up with the same level is frustration. I have no doubt they are doing their best and that IS the problem. I have yet to see an efficient govt agency. This has lived down to my expectations.

tonb
11-09-2010, 4:50 PM
Without going back 10 pages, the long waits people are experiencing is with the final stage of the process in actually picking up their permit is that correct? So if I have a 9:30AM appointment to turn in my application, I'm gold if I show up an hour early ya?

thebronze
11-09-2010, 4:56 PM
Without going back 10 pages, the long waits people are experiencing is with the final stage of the process in actually picking up their permit is that correct? So if I have a 9:30AM appointment to turn in my application, I'm gold if I show up an hour early ya?

AFAIK, appt's to turn them in are on Thursdays. Unless things have changed, I don't think you need to show early to just turn in the app.

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 5:01 PM
I wrote to Amber about this today. The 30 day window is not a firm deadline. She said: "The 30 days is a general timeline that we put on the letters so that files stay active, instead of building up and collecting dust because applicants haven’t completed the process.. "

She also said she's trying to increase the hours but there are no plans for changes at the present time. She said she is very sorry for the inconvenience.

Considering where we've come from, I think they're doing a great job. It's to be expected that their are some pains along the way.

This was pretty much the generic response I got as well when I emailed her earlier today.

tonb
11-09-2010, 5:02 PM
AFAIK, appt's to turn them in are on Thursdays. Unless things have changed, I don't think you need to show early to just turn in the app.

Cool thanks :)

thebronze
11-09-2010, 5:28 PM
Cool thanks :)

10-15 mins before your appt time should be good enough.

Rugerdaddy
11-09-2010, 6:21 PM
OK, I may have missed this, but I can't see perusing all these posts to find an answer that may not even be here. Where is everyone finding parking near the Sheriff's Dept. on G Street? My appointment's next Thursday (18th) and I don't want to be late. I hate going downtown......No, let me rephrase that....I HATE going downtown because it's always a complete royal pain in the A## trying to find parking. Any tips? Thanks.

p.s. with my luck, I'll probably commit some stupid moving violation while trying to find a crappy parking spot, then have my application denied for that!

Gray Peterson
11-09-2010, 6:28 PM
I understand all of this, but when you have something that is predictable and easily corrected yet allowed to continue it is irksome. Not to mention the 30 day window. Wonder what will happen if the 30 days is breached?

Nothing, you'll never see it actually enforced.

I have zero faith in the Sac Sheriff to do what is right, they don't care. Jones will be no better.



If Jones doesn't clean up the problem, a writ of mandate can be filed in Sacramento Superior Court to force them to comply fully with the 90 day/30 day provisions of PC12052.5.

As terrible as this situation, think of it this way. We'll find out if Jones was responsible or McGinness was responsible for the current state of affairs.

Bizcuits
11-09-2010, 6:35 PM
OK, I may have missed this, but I can't see perusing all these posts to find an answer that may not even be here. Where is everyone finding parking near the Sheriff's Dept. on G Street? My appointment's next Thursday (18th) and I don't want to be late. I hate going downtown......No, let me rephrase that....I HATE going downtown because it's always a complete royal pain in the A## trying to find parking. Any tips? Thanks.

p.s. with my luck, I'll probably commit some stupid moving violation while trying to find a crappy parking spot, then have my application denied for that!

There is a two story PUBLIC parking garage right across the street from the Sheriffs Office. If you can't find parking you probably shouldn't have a gun to begin with, lol. The entrance driveway to the parking garage is directly across the street from the actual pedestrian entrance into the Sheriffs Office.

It is paid parking, so bring cash. It's $1.50 for the first like 30 minutes. If the parking lot is full, the meters will not dispense a ticket, but I would recommend simply circling the block and coming back through, because people are always leaving the garage at a pretty steady rate.

RP1911
11-09-2010, 6:46 PM
Find parking on E or F streets. There's covered public parking at 11th and I also (8 levels)

CSDGuy
11-09-2010, 6:47 PM
OK, I may have missed this, but I can't see perusing all these posts to find an answer that may not even be here. Where is everyone finding parking near the Sheriff's Dept. on G Street? My appointment's next Thursday (18th) and I don't want to be late. I hate going downtown......No, let me rephrase that....I HATE going downtown because it's always a complete royal pain in the A## trying to find parking. Any tips? Thanks.

p.s. with my luck, I'll probably commit some stupid moving violation while trying to find a crappy parking spot, then have my application denied for that!
The parking structure across the street usually has parking spots available, most likely on the roof. Arrive early though. Street parking will probably be cheaper. Figure you should arrive about 15 minutes early to allow for parking and walk over there. Do NOT park in jury parking. Once you're there, just go in the lobby and tell the person behind the thick glass that you have an appointment with Amber. You'll eventually be escorted to the office and you'll go over the application, sign in 3 places and pay your $20.

The appointment itself takes less than 20 minutes.

RP1911 also has good info about parking too. Look there first, then parking structure last as it's most expensive. Make sure you give yourself enough time to park and arrive a few minutes early in the lobby. If Amber's running a little faster than expected, you'll go right in.

Rugerdaddy
11-09-2010, 7:09 PM
Thanks to all above for the parking tips and info. That should help greatly. :)

JeepFreak
11-09-2010, 8:12 PM
Got my initial appointment today (via email, within a couple hours), January 26, 2010. I wish I would have done this a long time ago, but I'm glad to get the ball rolling.
Billy

Bizcuits
11-10-2010, 7:33 AM
Got my initial appointment today (via email, within a couple hours), January 26, 2010. I wish I would have done this a long time ago, but I'm glad to get the ball rolling.
Billy

It's never to late! Hang in there!

Cbr1000Rider
11-10-2010, 7:57 AM
Got my initial appointment today (via email, within a couple hours), January 26, 2010. I wish I would have done this a long time ago, but I'm glad to get the ball rolling.
Billy

Feel lucky. I got my appointment about 2 weeks ago and it is around January 26th as well. Some people signed up a few days ago and got theirs in December.

They freed up some time and instead of bumping appt's like mine sooner, they just signed up new people sooner.
:chris:

thebronze
11-10-2010, 8:32 AM
Feel lucky. I got my appointment about 2 weeks ago and it is around January 26th as well. Some people signed up a few days ago and got theirs in December.

They freed up some time and instead of bumping appt's like mine sooner, they just signed up new people sooner.
:chris:

Figures...

tonb
11-10-2010, 11:43 AM
re parking garages, anyone know offhand the clearance? I drive a Dodge Ram 1500, not lifted, but it is pretty tall.

harbinger007
11-10-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't remember exactly, I have a utility shell on my Silverado which is 80" high and it wasn't close when I went to the garage to the south of their office. There is also some meter parking right on the street which I hadn't noticed until I went into the garage.

RP1911
11-10-2010, 7:11 PM
re parking garages, anyone know offhand the clearance? I drive a Dodge Ram 1500, not lifted, but it is pretty tall.

It will fit in the 11th and I street one. I have the same with Big Horn package 20" wheels. Most garages downtown are 6' 7" to 6' 10".

tiki
11-10-2010, 8:09 PM
Just get down there at 6:00 before everyone else. Then, you can park on the street and pay the meter.
Better yet, since I just said 6:00, you may want to get there at 5:30.
Damn, I just said 5:30, you better get there earlier. :)

Rugerdaddy
11-10-2010, 8:36 PM
Just get down there at 6:00 before everyone else. Then, you can park on the street and pay the meter.
Better yet, since I just said 6:00, you may want to get there at 5:30.
Damn, I just said 5:30, you better get there earlier. :)

O-Dark-Thirty is a good time to get there. :D

Rugerdaddy
11-10-2010, 8:37 PM
re parking garages, anyone know offhand the clearance? I drive a Dodge Ram 1500, not lifted, but it is pretty tall.

I have a Ram 2500 and have never yet found a garage I couldn't fit in. Yet.

Cbr1000Rider
11-10-2010, 9:41 PM
I know this may sound like a dumb question but with a sac ccw can u carry with on in the chamber?

Cbr1000Rider
11-10-2010, 9:41 PM
One*

thebronze
11-10-2010, 10:00 PM
One*

Yes. That's the whole point.

harbinger007
11-10-2010, 10:00 PM
yes, I don't know of any county that tries to regulate that.

CSDGuy
11-10-2010, 11:06 PM
I know this may sound like a dumb question but with a sac ccw can you carry with one in the chamber?
Fixed some spelling issues... Yes. To do otherwise is to carry an expensive ammunition holding device. And it's not a dumb question. You had a question that someone else probably had. You asked it... therefore it's not a dumb question. As far as I know, no CCW Issuer that I've ever heard of regulates the manner of carry that closely.

Shenaniguns
11-11-2010, 4:50 AM
I know this may sound like a dumb question but with a sac ccw can u carry with on in the chamber?



Lay off the Rockstars! lol Of course we can.

harbinger007
11-11-2010, 6:55 AM
Fixed some spelling issues... Yes. To do otherwise is to carry an expensive ammunition holding device. And it's not a dumb question. You had a question that someone else probably had. You asked it... therefore it's not a dumb question. As far as I know, no CCW Issuer that I've ever heard of regulates the manner of carry that closely.

This is off topic, but there's a YT video of a guy who bashes the Kahr PM9 because he doesn't carry a round in the chamber he tries to load it, he doesn't let go of the slide release quickly enough and it jams. Kahr instruction book even goes as far to say to use the slide release to ensure a good quick release but the guy just doesn't listen and, with his line of thinking, is going to get himself killed if he ever runs into a bad guy. I don't know, maybe he carries "Mexican style" and should keep it unloaded altogether.

As said above, you are allowed to carry it loaded with one in the chamber. A bad guy isn't going to give you time to chamber one because you were concerned your handgun might be dangerous.

thebronze
11-11-2010, 9:02 AM
This is off topic, but there's a YT video of a guy who bashes the Kahr PM9 because he doesn't carry a round in the chamber he tries to load it, he doesn't let go of the slide release quickly enough and it jams. Kahr instruction book even goes as far to say to use the slide release to ensure a good quick release but the guy just doesn't listen and, with his line of thinking, is going to get himself killed if he ever runs into a bad guy. I don't know, maybe he carries "Mexican style" and should keep it unloaded altogether.

As said above, you are allowed to carry it loaded with one in the chamber. A bad guy isn't going to give you time to chamber one because you were concerned your handgun might be dangerous.


They're supposed to be dangerous!

Bizcuits
11-11-2010, 2:14 PM
Yes you can carry one in the chamber, but go with what your comfortable with not with what someone else tells you.

RP1911
11-11-2010, 5:22 PM
Completed the CCW class today at Cordova Shooting Center. Terry, Joe and Joel, thanks for the informative and entertaining delivery of the curriculum.

To the rest of the class, thanks for being safe on the range.

Cbr1000Rider
11-12-2010, 9:03 AM
Thanks for the answer.. spelling issues caused by my iphone I was typing on at the time.

(I don't mean to de-rail however this does pertain to CCW..)

Another question: Am I the only one that has an irrational fear of having one in the chamber and it randomly/accidently going off in my household? I know how guns work..I have handled guns since I was nine years old yet I still have this fear. Am I the only one? I guess it is because I am not used to handling a weapon with one in the chamber anywhere else but the range or campground.

The fear seems to come from knowing 'holy hell, this gun has the potential to go off right now since a round is in the chamber'.. as opposed to just a loaded magazine in the gun I know, 'ok, I would have to force the slide back in order for this to actually have the potential to fire'.

I'm 23 and I know this fear should go away over time while carrying with one in the chamber.. but does anyone else get a bit edgy when one is in the chamber in their household? Like say.. you get home and remove the weapon from your holster and 'dechamber' it.. is this not a bit nerve-wracking on the slightest level? Maybe it is because I live on the second story and pointing the gun at the ground while taking the round out of the chamber means if I screw up, it could still hurt someone downstairs. While compared to say you, who lives on the 1st level would have no fear.

Shenaniguns
11-12-2010, 9:11 AM
If you're not confident in carrying chambered then maybe you shouldn't do so until you are.

The Four Rules of Firearm Safety

Rule One - All guns are always loaded.

Rule Two - Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

Rule Three - Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target.

Rule Four - Be sure of your target. Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot anything you have not positively identified.


And why would you unchamber unnecessarily when you get home? I'll personally take the gun off while it's in the holster.

samonya
11-12-2010, 9:16 AM
Thanks for the answer.. spelling issues caused by my iphone I was typing on at the time.

(I don't mean to de-rail however this does pertain to CCW..)

Another question: Am I the only one that has an irrational fear of having one in the chamber and it randomly/accidently going off in my household? I know how guns work..I have handled guns since I was nine years old yet I still have this fear. Am I the only one? I guess it is because I am not used to handling a weapon with one in the chamber anywhere else but the range or campground.

The fear seems to come from knowing 'holy hell, this gun has the potential to go off right now since a round is in the chamber'.. as opposed to just a loaded magazine in the gun I know, 'ok, I would have to force the slide back in order for this to actually have the potential to fire'.

I'm 23 and I know this fear should go away over time while carrying with one in the chamber.. but does anyone else get a bit edgy when one is in the chamber in their household? Like say.. you get home and remove the weapon from your holster and 'dechamber' it.. is this not a bit nerve-wracking on the slightest level? Maybe it is because I live on the second story and pointing the gun at the ground while taking the round out of the chamber means if I screw up, it could still hurt someone downstairs. While compared to say you, who lives on the 1st level would have no fear.

This does not belong in this thread. Start a new thread under ccw. Posts like these are why this helpful thread has become so long with things that have nothing to do with obtaining a ccw in Sacramento county. Its a fair question and subject. But please keep it on topic.

Bizcuits
11-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Chambered vs UnChambered is a personal preference and do not allow yourself to be "talked" into doing either one... CCW is not a permit to be a hero. Mind your own business and avoid danger at all costs, utilize your weapon in self defense of life.


Chambered; The fear you are some how important enough to have the bad guys plan a pre-emptive ambush on your person, in which you will not have a single spare second to either step back or you will be to slow in pulling out your gun and chambering a round.

This can easily be overlooked, by practicing with your firearm empty both drawing and chambering.

UnChambered; The fear you're firearm will automatically discharge in your holster or when you take it off, or your poor retention will result in it being taken away easily during a struggle.

This can easily be overlooked, by using a firearm with a safety and not letting people know about or see your gun, until it is in your hands and you are ready to KILL in the defense of a life.

END Of the day, do what makes YOU feel safe and what works for you. Don't buy into the mucho man BS that you absolutely have to carry this way or that way. Odds are the people demanding or suggesting you do things their way, have probably never had to pull a firearm and have probably never been assaulted by a person with a weapon or even had a gun pulled on them.

Shenaniguns
11-13-2010, 1:43 AM
END Of the day, do what makes YOU feel safe and what works for you. Don't buy into the mucho man BS that you absolutely have to carry this way or that way. Odds are the people demanding or suggesting you do things their way, have probably never had to pull a firearm and have probably never been assaulted by a person with a weapon or even had a gun pulled on them.



That's a pretty large assumption and has nothing to do with being macho, and I don't know of any reputable firearm trainers (Not talking the IDF here) that instruct you to carry unloaded nor do LEO's. Things happen fast and I'd hate to add an extra step if I don't need to.

thebronze
11-13-2010, 6:55 AM
That's a pretty large assumption and has nothing to do with being macho, and I don't know of any reputable firearm trainers (Not talking the IDF here) that instruct you to carry unloaded nor do LEO's. Things happen fast and I'd hate to add an extra step if I don't need to.



Concur.

I doubt you'd find a single instructor in all of America (save an Isreali one) that teaches anyone to draw and chamber.

If you plan on carrying a gun without a round chambered, you have no business getting a CCW and if you plan on having time to chamber a round during a lethal force situation, you're dumb.

bruss01
11-13-2010, 7:06 AM
Concur.

I doubt you'd find a single instructor in all of America (save an Isreali one) that teaches anyone to draw and chamber.

If you plan on carrying a gun without a round chambered, you have no business getting a CCW and if you plan on having time to chamber a round during a lethal force situation, you're dumb.

Bronze, I understand with what you are saying but I have to disagree under some circumstances and I will explain why.

To carrying a gun safely requires good judgment. Good judgment comes from experience. Experience results, at least to a degree, from bad judgment.

I don't have a problem with someone carrying concealed unloaded or unchambered for a while until they convince themselves they are not going to accidentally discharge the firearm. That sounds like a good confidence-building step. Once they have convinced themselves that they are not going to make a mistake or have a mishap, they should feel more comfortable in loading/chambering the firearm.

Knowing the rules is one thing. That is conscious competence. Having the habit of observing the rules every time, without fail, without thinking... that is unconscious competence. You need to work through one in order to get to the other.

thebronze
11-13-2010, 12:11 PM
Bronze, I understand with what you are saying but I have to disagree under some circumstances and I will explain why.

To carrying a gun safely requires good judgment. Good judgment comes from experience. Experience results, at least to a degree, from bad judgment.

I don't have a problem with someone carrying concealed unloaded or unchambered for a while until they convince themselves they are not going to accidentally discharge the firearm. That sounds like a good confidence-building step. Once they have convinced themselves that they are not going to make a mistake or have a mishap, they should feel more comfortable in loading/chambering the firearm.

Knowing the rules is one thing. That is conscious competence. Having the habit of observing the rules every time, without fail, without thinking... that is unconscious competence. You need to work through one in order to get to the other.

I agree with your disagreement. :D

nosuchagency
11-14-2010, 10:48 AM
in addition to expanding the appointment window for acceptance of apps from Thursdays to Wednesdays based on recent comments contained within thread, can someone who's been through the process in the last couple weeks confirm whether the interview with the detective is now occurring in conjuncture with dropping off the application, or are they still doing both the phone interviews as well as last minute face-to-face interviews as circumstances permit?

Swift Justice
11-14-2010, 11:41 AM
I have an initial appointment scheduled for this Wednesday and will post whether I do the interview then or not.

Wolfhound9k
11-14-2010, 8:38 PM
yes, be prepared for an interview with Detective Wright! Amber will politely ask if you have time for an interview first, and you can always decline if you aren't prepared at the moment... there were some no-shows before me, so that's probably why Amber offered the interview

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-16-2010, 7:09 AM
All may not be ccw related, but Its only 8 AM and there are eight folks in the hall already. Haha.

Shenaniguns
11-16-2010, 7:25 AM
All may not be ccw related, but Its only 8 AM and there are eight folks in the hall already. Haha.


Sorry, I forgot to send a wakeup call lol

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-16-2010, 7:29 AM
Its all good. I got up just fine - big boy rules.

Sorry, I forgot to send a wakeup call lol

harbinger007
11-16-2010, 7:38 AM
Number 1 got here at 7:00 & #16 at 8:35. Amber just took #1 at 8:40.

tiki
11-16-2010, 7:59 AM
Are they turning people away or are they taking everyone that comes in?

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-16-2010, 8:02 AM
The officer stated his cut off was 20 this week, as opposed to 14 last week.

Are they turning people away or are they taking everyone that comes in?

harbinger007
11-16-2010, 8:04 AM
Nobody turned away yet, think they,re up to 18 and think I heard him say they're going up to 20.

harbinger007
11-16-2010, 8:29 AM
I lost track, it was #20 that showed up jost before 9:00. Nobody else has shown up yet. Averaging 8-9 minutes per person going upstairs.

Lone_Gunman
11-16-2010, 8:43 AM
Just got home from turning mine in. Took all of 5 minutes once I got upstairs. Amber told me that she will try to get permits sent out sooner but it may take up to ...


Two Weeks
:D

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-16-2010, 8:58 AM
Two weeks indeed...

I applied with the intention of having four firearms listed. All four were listed in the initial application; the fourth listed on a separate attachment. Amber did not say anything, the interviewing detective stated that they allow up to four firearms, approved with no indication that four firearms were not good to go. So I qualified with four firearms.

Amber related to me that it's SCSD's policy to allow up to three.

Contrary to what I've stated before, Sacramento only accepts three on the permit.

harbinger007
11-16-2010, 12:53 PM
Yeah, Amber talked to me about the 3 weapon limit also and she thought I had 4 but I had been re-qualified with a second barrel for one of my weapons (both calibers will be listed on the permit for the same weapon).

I asked her briefly about the renewal process. Because of the long waits, they will probably go to an appointment system for everyone completing their new CCW paperwork and renewals so that people can avoid the lengthy waits.

brassburn
11-16-2010, 2:43 PM
It sounds like a lot of people are just showing up on Tuesdays on a first come-first served basis.

I was under the impression that the process was appointment only?

Bizcuits
11-16-2010, 3:04 PM
Number 1 got here at 7:00 & #16 at 8:35. Amber just took #1 at 8:40.

Starting early? Very nice!

Lone_Gunman
11-16-2010, 3:09 PM
It sounds like a lot of people are just showing up on Tuesdays on a first come-first served basis.

I was under the impression that the process was appointment only?

Appointments are required to drop off the app in the beginning of the process but the final step where you turn in your training cert. and sign papers is first come first served. Tuesdays between 9-11.




Starting early? Very nice!

I got there at 0630 and sat in my car with the door in view until someone got in line. There was no way I was going to get turned away today.

Bizcuits
11-16-2010, 3:28 PM
That's a pretty large assumption and has nothing to do with being macho, and I don't know of any reputable firearm trainers (Not talking the IDF here) that instruct you to carry unloaded nor do LEO's. Things happen fast and I'd hate to add an extra step if I don't need to.

My reference is to the growing number of "keyboard experts" who claim their way is the only way and your less of a man if you don't follow their way. Which is what such statements as "you shouldn't have a CCW, unless you carry chambered" are.... Statements like that are absolutely absurd, because sadly someone who is uncomfortable with the idea or has little to no experience will follow suit, because they "READ IT ONLINE" and end up shooting themselves. These person(s) are no less important then you or I and deserve the right to self defense, but shouldn't be faced with macho man comments about how the only way to carry is this or that way.... There is only one way to carry, the legal way that is comfortable to you. Trying to pressure inexperienced or poorly trained people into doing things they aren't comfortable with will result in accidents... The more accidents CCW holders have will only equal more fuel and support for the liberals to fight against our progress.

What a surprise too, because we've already had one CCW holder related accident near Auburn, with a CCW holders friend shooting themselves.

If you want to keep your CCW you should be preaching safety, not combat readiness for the mean streets of.... Elk Grove... We're not in Iraq or Afghanistan and unless you aren't really carrying concealed then you aren't anymore of a target then you were a couple of weeks or months ago when you didn't have a CCW. In fact if you have delusions of some mass fire fight against hordes of gang members and child rapists who ambush you in the parking lot of Walmart, I fear you probably shouldn't have a CCW.

Use common sense, if you do not feel comfortable carrying a chambered weapon then do not carry a chambered weapon. As a CCW holder you aren't a hero, you aren't there to engage every single enemy target and you aren't going to be ambushed by Johnny Jihad the second you exit the safety of your home. However what you do WILL ABSOLUTELY REFLECT UPON ALL OF US

Shenaniguns
11-16-2010, 4:13 PM
My reference is to the growing number of "keyboard experts" who claim their way is the only way and your less of a man if you don't follow their way. Which is what such statements as "you shouldn't have a CCW, unless you carry chambered" are.... Statements like that are absolutely absurd, because sadly someone who is uncomfortable with the idea or has little to no experience will follow suit, because they "READ IT ONLINE" and end up shooting themselves. These person(s) are no less important then you or I and deserve the right to self defense, but shouldn't be faced with macho man comments about how the only way to carry is this or that way.... There is only one way to carry, the legal way that is comfortable to you. Trying to pressure inexperienced or poorly trained people into doing things they aren't comfortable with will result in accidents... The more accidents CCW holders have will only equal more fuel and support for the liberals to fight against our progress.

What a surprise too, because we've already had one CCW holder related accident near Auburn, with a CCW holders friend shooting themselves.

If you want to keep your CCW you should be preaching safety, not combat readiness for the mean streets of.... Elk Grove... We're not in Iraq or Afghanistan and unless you aren't really carrying concealed then you aren't anymore of a target then you were a couple of weeks or months ago when you didn't have a CCW. In fact if you have delusions of some mass fire fight against hordes of gang members and child rapists who ambush you in the parking lot of Walmart, I fear you probably shouldn't have a CCW.

Use common sense, if you do not feel comfortable carrying a chambered weapon then do not carry a chambered weapon. As a CCW holder you aren't a hero, you aren't there to engage every single enemy target and you aren't going to be ambushed by Johnny Jihad the second you exit the safety of your home. However what you do WILL ABSOLUTELY REFLECT UPON ALL OF US



And I still state that if you're not ready to carry a firearm in the condition it's suppose to be carried in then you're not ready to carry yet. The same goes with someone who did enough to get his drivers license, but is scared to drive on the freeway or at night. And watch who you're talking to with blanket generalizations, I had an ex-employee and his friend stick a gun in my face robbing me( for a small example of encounters I've had). He got a slap on the wrist for that and the crimes he continues to commit, I have seen him in South Sacramento and Arden Mall. And just because I live in a nice area of Elk Grove, I won't be a victim of crime? What about when I visit my family in the Oakland area or anywhere outside of where I live? So besides steering this thread in the wrong direction with the fantastic training you've recieved from USA, we can take this thread elsewhere or agree to disagree.


I'm not telling anyone they need to be a hero, I'm just saying that you need to train, practice and build confidence with carrying. Or maybe practice with Airsoft until you're comfortable. right Bizcuits?

dantodd
11-16-2010, 4:22 PM
I would generally agree that if I were not comfortable carrying a loaded gun that I would not carry one unloaded in hopes that I could actually overcome the fear of a loaded gun and use it in the stress that invariably comes along with any situation that calls for one to use a firearm to potentially take the life of another. I would similarly counsel anyone who asked me about getting a ccw.

But, the whole idea is to create more freedoms.

Shenaniguns
11-16-2010, 4:31 PM
I'm not trying to poop in anyone's cereal, but let's be real. If someone isn't comfortable carrying a loaded gun then what makes it safer being unloaded? Nobody is automatically ready to ccw from birth as it is something that should be worked up too just like anything else. Get more training, practice holstering. And unholstering with an unloaded gun safely at home etc...
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, and guns thought to be unloaded have hurt alot of people.

Bizcuits
11-16-2010, 5:24 PM
Sigh...

This is the down side of having a battle of wits... Your opponent is often unarmed... Let me know when you find a weapon to use.

harbinger007
11-16-2010, 6:40 PM
A couple of people who came in today were coming in for renewals and were very surprised at the crowd. I chatted with one bail bondsman who said they've always asked to come in not more than two weeks before your permit expires. His already expired two days ago but the renewal will get back-dated. I asked Amber about this small window (only briefly, since I was cognizant of the fact about a dozen folks were waiting behind me!) and she said that she tries to coordinate it with the DOJ. That's when she said they would probably go to an appointment system for new/renewal paperwork completion. Some other woman came into the waiting room who couldn't wait and also said she'd just have to come back after her permit expired because she was headed out of town. Seems something needs to be done about this process.

thebronze
11-17-2010, 1:17 PM
No rice-paper yesterday, maybe today...

tiki
11-17-2010, 1:57 PM
No rice-paper yesterday, maybe today...

If you went in last week, you won't be getting it this week. She's behind and will try to send them out by the end of this week.

Swift Justice
11-17-2010, 2:01 PM
I had my initial appointment today. My experience as follows:

1. My appointment had originally been set for December 2. I was called by Ms. Wong a couple of weeks ago and asked if I would like to move it up to November 17 at 11am. Of course I agreed, and showed up today at 10:45.

2. The Deputy downstairs had no record of my appointment. He called upstairs to verify if I had an appointment, and they did not have a record of me either. By this time, I was getting nervous, and of course I had told them that my appointment had been moved up by Amber. They seemed to be not that busy (I was the last one before lunch?) and so they sent me up anyway. I had to leave my driver's license at the desk, and I had to show my good cause statement to the deputy at the check in counter. NOTE: if your appointment gets moved up (or even if it doesn't) I think it would be a smart idea to confirm it with Amber a few days prior to your appointment. I can see where I could easily have been turned away for "not having an appointment".

3. I was met off the elevator on the 3rd floor by Ernie (forgot last name), who is a retired annuitant. He told me he was brought back specifically to help with the increased workload of the new applications, and that he just works this one day per week. He said that last year they had about 100, but this year it looks like they have about 500 applications somewhere in the process. I was not on his appointment list either.

4. Ernie went through my application with me, and had me sign in the appropriate spaces.

5. Once finished, he asked me to wait a few minutes for my interview with Det. Wright, who was finishing up the interview for the applicant before me.

6. I then had my interview with Det. Wright. The standard questions were asked, i.e. any arrest record, place of employment, does your employer know about your application?, etc. I was also asked how long I had owned handguns, how many handguns I own, how often I shoot, and where I shoot. I was asked about formal training or classes, and I gave him a copy of my PC832 certificate. He also asked if I belong to any shooting groups or clubs, like IDPA.

7. I did list the weapons on the app. that I plan on carrying - this was checked by both Ernie and Det. Wright, but more of a check to see if I had put anything, other than an actual requirement, I believe.

8. Det. Wright specifically said that there would not be a follow up phone interview - this interview was "the" interview. He said that they are no longer going to do phone interviews, that they are doing the interviews right when you drop off your app. He said it was just taking too long to do phone interviews due to having to play phone tag, etc., and it was more expeditious just to do them at the same time as the application appointment.

9. He said that the committee was going to meet the first week of next month, but the date might be a little wobbly due to the holidays. He said I should either have an approval or denial letter by the end of December, and that if I did not receive word by then to call and check.

10. Det. Wright had his own list of appointments, and of course I was not on it either. From what I could tell, it looked like there were about 10 or so appointments today.

11. I asked specifically, assuming that I was approved, how long would I have to get livescanned and qualify, etc.? Det. Wright said that there was no set time limit once approval was issued, but if 3-4 months had gone by and you hadn't finished up the process that they would contact you and see if you were going to finish up or if you wanted to abandon your application.

12. The total time I spent there, from the time I walked in downstairs until I walked out again, was exactly 30 minutes.

13. Everyone, including the deputy at the check in window, was courteous and professional. The DMV field offices should emulate them...

Shenaniguns
11-17-2010, 2:11 PM
If you went in last week, you won't be getting it this week. She's behind and will try to send them out by the end of this week.



Delay after delay after delay :rolleyes:

Cbr1000Rider
11-17-2010, 3:02 PM
Sigh...

This is the down side of having a battle of wits... Your opponent is often unarmed... Let me know when you find a weapon to use.

Just a quick side note, I read your argument and agreed fully with the first 2 paragraphs. I really do think people are jumping to conclusions when they believe that if you feel uneasy carrying chambered.. you are unfit to carry at all.

EVERYBODY should have felt uneasy before shooting their first gun, if you didn't, then you had a false sense of security doing something you have never done before but "saw on TV". So that guys argument of.. if you feel uneasy.. DON'T DO IT... means nobody should be firing weapons right now.. since if they were inexperienced they should have never started.

Thanks for your input, I love seeing other levelheaded people here on calguns. It is people like you I would love to have a beer with and makes sticking to these forums easy. FUD is FUD.

harbinger007
11-17-2010, 4:15 PM
I had one funny experience when I went in yesterday to finalize my paperwork which I forgot to share. I brought in some farm produce items to Amber so that she'd get my permit in the mail to me sooner (j/k, just was pleased with the way she had been helpful) so I had a little white paper bag (i.e., lunch sack). The deputy at the check in window asked me "you don't have your handguns in there, do you??" I chucked and told him that I didn't and thought it would be an odd way to carry them around (pretty concealed though, I guess). He said he had someone bring in their handguns before because they thought they'd want to check them out. ;)

I think this was brought up once before. At http://www.sacsheriff.com/forms/documents/ccw_process.pdf there is the following statement on page 1:

Annual qualification with the weapon(s)/type(s) listed on the permit and safety
inspection of each weapon specifically listed on the permit.

Don't know what they are expecting by putting down the safety inspection comment. There is no mention of that during the various stages of the actual process.

nosuchagency
11-17-2010, 4:16 PM
swift, i appreciate the follow up. thx

CSDGuy
11-17-2010, 4:26 PM
Given the volume of applicants they're now experiencing, it makes sense to conduct "the interview" right then when you drop off the application because you're essentially a captive audience and they don't have to play phone tag with you.

WRT: inspection process... they put that in so that if they decide that if they decide to require that carry weapons be inspected, they can do that or, more likely, allow any entity that they "approve" to do a qual shoot to also inspect any firearm for proper function prior to the qual shoot.

harbinger007
11-17-2010, 4:32 PM
jb7706 posted previously that he and others met with Amber and she clarified that they don't approve any entity to do training. Whoever is authorized by the DOJ to perform the training is okay with SSD. I don't see any way of SSD telling qualification entities that they have to do safety inspections when they are not maintaining a list of entities doing the training. Just seems weird.

CSDGuy
11-17-2010, 4:47 PM
jb7706 posted previously that he and others met with Amber and she clarified that they don't approve any entity to do training. Whoever is authorized by the DOJ to perform the training is okay with SSD. I don't see any way of SSD telling qualification entities that they have to do safety inspections when they are not maintaining a list of entities doing the training. Just seems weird.
It's probably, in reality, an unenforced policy. However, I can see that if a trainer wanted to inspect your carry firearms, that kind of policy would allow them to... and the trainer could claim it's an SSD policy.

harbinger007
11-17-2010, 4:54 PM
That could be. I'm figuring it's some left over "fluff" that someone added to a policy statement years ago without even considering how it would be done. Just speculation.

Rugerdaddy
11-17-2010, 5:17 PM
I had my initial appointment today. My experience as follows:

1. My appointment had originally been set for December 2.....

.......Everyone, including the deputy at the check in window, was courteous and professional. The DMV field offices should emulate them...

Great summary. Thanks. Glad the appointment snafu didn't set you back. I really appreciate your notes because I'm going in tomorrow morning. Leaving home in Elk Grove area around 7:30 just to make damn sure I'm not late. Also, I was glad to hear that I'll probably get to do the interview tomorrow! That eliminates about a week or two of delay.

Me1
11-17-2010, 5:33 PM
Great summary. Thanks. Glad the appointment snafu didn't set you back. I really appreciate your notes because I'm going in tomorrow morning. Leaving home in Elk Grove area around 7:30 just to make damn sure I'm not late. Also, I was glad to hear that I'll probably get to do the interview tomorrow! That eliminates about a week or two of delay.

I'll be there too. I'm leaving early too, don't want to get stuck in traffic.

hoffmang
11-17-2010, 8:46 PM
He said that last year they had about 100, but this year it looks like they have about 500 applications somewhere in the process.

Now that is change I can believe in!

Great to see the process continuing to improve.

-Gene

tiki
11-17-2010, 8:56 PM
Now that is change I can believe in!

Great to see the process continuing to improve.

-Gene

Yeah, you guys kick ***.

harbinger007
11-17-2010, 11:09 PM
Word hasn't really got out to the public about the new CCW environment in Sacramento County. If gun shops started telling customers that would help get word to folks that aren't active in forums, etc. It would seem that we could easily have several thousand next year if word got out in a big way. We'd need to see a lot of changes to be able to handle that kind of volume. How would they ever handle 10,000 annual renewals if we got even close to 1% of the population?

Rugerdaddy
11-18-2010, 12:38 PM
Dropped off my application this morning. Saw a couple other Calgunners there, and others who may have been. Appointment was at 0930. Arrived at 0845, just to be safe. I was called at 0920, and was out at 1000.

Wayne went over the app and took my check. He was business-like but pleasant. Then Detective Wright interviewed me. He is very personable and easy to talk to, no sweat there. Most of the questions are just info on your gun experience. There is absolutely no "grilling" of any kind. The whole impression is that they are all there to help you get your application in, and not to try to find reasons to deny you. He said the committee was meeting mid-December, and I should get a letter by the end of December, either approval (of course :)), or denial :(, which he pointed out would be appealable.

I never talked to Amber, though she was sitting there working (I don't think she saw anyone that came in when I was there), but she gave me a friendly smile. The funny thing is, I always assumed Amber Wong would be a black haired Asian lady. LOL. She appears to be 100% Anglo, and she's blonde! :)

One odd thing though, after I saw Wayne and was sitting in a little waiting room to see Wright, a guy came in from downstairs. Wayne asked him what time his appointment was, and the guy responded "I don't have an appointment". Wayne looked at him a bit askance, then told him to sit down. I mentioned to the guy that normally they require an appointment, but that I hoped for his sake they would see him. He said that there was nothing on the application that said he needed an appointment.

He was still there when I left, and I do hope they took his app, but if word got out that they allowed walk-ins, it could really open a can of worms for the application drop-off procedure. Unless they set up a system to handle walk-ins, but I don't see that happening soon.

I easily parked across the street, but it cost me $7.00. No complaints, though.

Shenaniguns
11-18-2010, 12:51 PM
Those who delivered final paperwork on 11/09, our permits may arrive before Thanksgiving :(

thebronze
11-18-2010, 12:58 PM
Those who delivered final paperwork on 11/09, our permits may arrive before Thanksgiving :(

That sucks, but considering where we came from, four months isn't too bad.

jb7706
11-18-2010, 1:23 PM
How would they ever handle 10,000 annual renewals if we got even close to 1% of the population?

Improvements in process, procedure and serious automation. Or throw a lot more bodies at it. The system in place now will not scale to 10,000 permits without serious delays in processing.

Bizcuits
11-18-2010, 1:57 PM
The funny thing is, I always assumed Amber Wong would be a black haired Asian lady. LOL. She appears to be 100% Anglo, and she's blonde! :)

I thought the same thing! lol

Me1
11-18-2010, 2:46 PM
One odd thing though, after I saw Wayne and was sitting in a little waiting room to see Wright, a guy came in from downstairs. Wayne asked him what time his appointment was, and the guy responded "I don't have an appointment". Wayne looked at him a bit askance, then told him to sit down. I mentioned to the guy that normally they require an appointment, but that I hoped for his sake they would see him. He said that there was nothing on the application that said he needed an appointment.

He was still there when I left, and I do hope they took his app, but if word got out that they allowed walk-ins, it could really open a can of worms for the application drop-off procedure. Unless they set up a system to handle walk-ins, but I don't see that happening soon.

.

I talked to him, someone let him up to the 3rd floor so I think they took him after me.

samonya
11-18-2010, 5:53 PM
So I have an appointment to turn in my app coming up, my history is pretty clean except for one incident when I was 15 over a decade ago, I was picked up for curfew and vandalism with damages under $1000. The supervisor who gave me this info in records said there was no arrest, no detention or court, just 6 months informal probation. I remember I was picked up and taken straight home. The application says to put down any arrests. Should I include this in my app to be safe or leave it out? Do you think I will be denied on this basis ?

harbinger007
11-18-2010, 6:25 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if nobody had a conversation with Amber today. By 9:40 or so on Tuesday she hardly had any voice left. Maybe that left her with more time to type up our permits! ;)

I don't remember for sure if I asked the renewal guy next to me on Tuesday, but I think he told me that you don't get a renewal notice. Guess some of us will run into one another in about a year.

Rugerdaddy
11-18-2010, 6:31 PM
So I have an appointment to turn in my app coming up, my history is pretty clean except for one incident when I was 15 over a decade ago, I was picked up for curfew and vandalism with damages under $1000. The supervisor who gave me this info in records said there was no arrest, no detention or court, just 6 months informal probation. I remember I was picked up and taken straight home. The application says to put down any arrests. Should I include this in my app to be safe or leave it out? Do you think I will be denied on this basis ?

I'm no lawyer, but based on my own experience I would say don't put it on the application because I believe under the youth offender program, that's not reportable- the records are essentially non-existent when you become an adult. However, when they ask you- if I were you- I would tell them about it and ask them if they think it should be on the application. I'm guessing they'll say no.

Maybe others with more knowledge will pipe in here.

Shenaniguns
11-18-2010, 6:34 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if nobody had a conversation with Amber today. By 9:40 or so on Tuesday she hardly had any voice left. Maybe that left her with more time to type up our permits! ;)

I don't remember for sure if I asked the renewal guy next to me on Tuesday, but I think he told me that you don't get a renewal notice. Guess some of us will run into one another in about a year.



Yeah she sounded horrible lol

Swift Justice
11-18-2010, 6:48 PM
The application says to put down any arrests. Should I include this in my app to be safe or leave it out? Do you think I will be denied on this basis ?

I work for a State agency that issues professional licenses to individuals. I'll tell you what I tell the investigations staff when they are reviewing an application - "failure to disclose is always fatal". Meaning, a failure to disclose anything on the application will always cause the application to (usually) be denied. We don't have a crystal ball and don't know whether you simply forgot, couldn't read the app correctly, or were actively trying to conceal a past conviction hoping that the livescan wouldn't pick it up so that you could get a license.

I can't give you any advice, but where I work it is always better to over disclose than to not disclose. At least once a week I see someone who fails to disclose an arrest or conviction in their past and causes their application to be at the very least delayed, when it wouldn't have made any difference to their application approval if they had simply disclosed it.

Where I work, juvenile convictions can't be used against you for determining license elgibiilty, but there may be a specific statute for CCW purposes that addresses it. I do know the CORI will show it, even if its a juvenile conviction.

When in doubt, it would be best to call them and ask if you need to disclose it or not.

truthseeker
11-18-2010, 8:10 PM
I work for a State agency that professionally licenses individuals. I'll tell you what I tell the investigatons staff when they are reviewing an application - "failure to disclose is always fatal".

WOW!

tiki
11-18-2010, 8:22 PM
So I have an appointment to turn in my app coming up, my history is pretty clean except for one incident when I was 15 over a decade ago, I was picked up for curfew and vandalism with damages under $1000. The supervisor who gave me this info in records said there was no arrest, no detention or court, just 6 months informal probation. I remember I was picked up and taken straight home. The application says to put down any arrests. Should I include this in my app to be safe or leave it out? Do you think I will be denied on this basis ?

No, that shouldn't get you denied.

Lone_Gunman
11-18-2010, 8:38 PM
Please spread the word to local gun stores, feed stores, tractor places etc. that Sac County has gone shall issue!!! Anywhere you think people who may want a CCW might go please consider printing out and taking in some flyers.

I made up this 2 page flyer that you guys can print out and drop off. Calguns Foundation logo used with permission.

thebronze
11-18-2010, 9:12 PM
Please spread the word to local gun stores, feed stores, tractor places etc. that Sac County has gone shall issue!!! Anywhere you think people who may want a CCW might go please consider printing out and taking in some flyers.

I made up this 2 page flyer that you guys can print out and drop off. Calguns Foundation logo used with permission.


WELL DONE!

derek@thepackingrat.net
11-19-2010, 10:10 AM
Please spread the word to local gun stores, feed stores, tractor places etc. that Sac County has gone shall issue!!! Anywhere you think people who may want a CCW might go please consider printing out and taking in some flyers.

I made up this 2 page flyer that you guys can print out and drop off. Calguns Foundation logo used with permission.

Very concise handout. Outstanding!

thebronze
11-21-2010, 2:14 PM
Here's a great video for all you guys that think someone shouldn't carry with a round in the chamber if they're not "comfortable" with it.

This should be pretty self-evident to anyone with a modicum of training/experience. Apparently it's not...

Should You Carry A Round In The Chamber? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrpLbaEuY&feature=player_embedded)

harbinger007
11-21-2010, 2:49 PM
she should have pistol-whipped him! ;)

Bizcuits
11-21-2010, 2:51 PM
Here's a great video for all you guys that think someone shouldn't carry with a round in the chamber if they're not "comfortable" with it.

This should be pretty self-evident to anyone with a modicum of training/experience. Apparently it's not...

Should You Carry A Round In The Chamber? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrpLbaEuY&feature=player_embedded)

Sigh...

No one ever said there wasn't a benefit in carrying with one in the chamber. Ironically. I also never said I wouldn't be carrying in such a manner.

However there is a much greater benefit with letting the inexperienced shooters and gun owners who are rushing out to get CCW's right now, carry how they feel comfortable. Bashing them like keyboard experts does absolutely nothing, but put unnecessary pressure on those who are inexperienced to carry in a manner that maybe unsafe for them due to their level of expertise with said weapons.

Even the video you linked states at the end that it is important for those carrying to carry in the manner they want and feel comfortable. So I again revert back to my dislike for the ignorant comments that you and Shenanigan made about how those who wish to carry an un-chambered weapon concealed, shouldn't "according to you two" be allowed to carry.

Present both sides or do not present a side at all.

thebronze
11-21-2010, 2:57 PM
I guess it takes ignorant to know ignorant.

You sound like an expert.

Bizcuits
11-21-2010, 3:04 PM
I guess it takes ignorant to know ignorant.

You sound like an expert.

Pretty much... But alas, I don't have fancy youtube videos or a superiority complex to help add emphasis to my point... I just have to relay on snappy sarcasm and ignorance alone.

thebronze
11-21-2010, 3:07 PM
Pretty much... But alas, I don't have fancy youtube videos or a superiority complex to help add emphasis to my point... I have just have to count on snappy sarcasm and ignorance alone.


The snappy sarcasm, not so much. But you've got the ignorance thing down pat.

Shenaniguns
11-21-2010, 3:13 PM
Sigh...

No one ever said there wasn't a benefit in carrying with one in the chamber. Ironically. I also never said I wouldn't be carrying in such a manner.

However there is a much greater benefit with letting the inexperienced shooters and gun owners who are rushing out to get CCW's right now, carry how they feel comfortable. Bashing them like keyboard experts does absolutely nothing, but put unnecessary pressure on those who are inexperienced to carry in a manner that maybe unsafe for them due to their level of expertise with said weapons.

Even the video you linked states at the end that it is important for those carrying to carry in the manner they want and feel comfortable. So I again revert back to my dislike for the ignorant comments that you and Shenanigan made about how those who wish to carry an un-chambered weapon concealed, shouldn't "according to you two" be allowed to carry.

Present both sides or do not present a side at all.



Have this conversation with Yeager during Fighting Pistol, lmk how it works out ;)


Btw at the CCW class I recently attended and at the USA Exposed class and multiple qualifications throughout the years, it's scary to see some of these people carrying or owning any firearms at all. There's too many people who think they're 16 hours of training and 2 qualifications a year make them safe and proficient with firearms who are not, I wish they would seek additional formal training on their own.

Bizcuits
11-21-2010, 3:27 PM
Btw at the CCW class I recently attended and at the USA Exposed class and multiple qualifications throughout the years, it's scary to see some of these people carrying or owning any firearms at all. There's too many people who think they're 16 hours of training and 2 qualifications a year make them safe and proficient with firearms who are not, I wish they would seek additional formal training on their own.

For once I actually agree with you.

Bizcuits
11-21-2010, 3:49 PM
Have this conversation with Yeager during Fighting Pistol, lmk how it works out ;)

What conversation do you think I would have with Yeager?

Mr. Yeager doesn't live in a City where political climate dictates whether he can carry concealed or not. Sadly you and I do. So when inexperienced shooters start slapping chambered weapons in their waist bands and castrating themselves, we will be the ones losing our CCW's not Mr. Yeager.

Tactical Response is an AMAZING place to train and to attend one of Mr. Yeagers classes would no doubt be incredible training. However I have never once argued the effectiveness of a chambered weapon in the hands of a trained or experienced individual.

I have however argued the backlash I fear from our great liberal leaders in Sacramento when inexperienced shooters are having accidental discharges, because they opted to carry a round in the chamber.

We've had 500 new applicants recently. How many of those have military, law enforcement or even armed security experience? Now how many are avid shooters, hunters or competitors? Then... How many have little to no experience and simply bought a firearm, because they wanted it, never fired it or only fired it a couple of times.. Now it's been sitting in the closest collecting dust, only for them to now get a CCW and throw it in their waist band. They still deserve the right to self defense, but they shouldn't be encouraged to carry in a manner they aren't comfortable with and aren't trained in...

It's like expecting an EMT to conduct brain surgery...

Shenaniguns
11-21-2010, 5:08 PM
Notice how I'm not saying that the additional training should be a requirement, I'm talking about personal responsibility. I'm not saying they don't have a right to defend themselves, I'm saying they have a duty and responsibility to be safe and proficient carrying in public... However they choose to get there.

RP1911
11-21-2010, 5:23 PM
Btw at the CCW class I recently attended and at the USA Exposed class and multiple qualifications throughout the years, it's scary to see some of these people carrying or owning any firearms at all. There's too many people who think they're 16 hours of training and 2 qualifications a year make them safe and proficient with firearms who are not, I wish they would seek additional formal training on their own.


I'll second this. I believe I was at the same class with you.

Shenaniguns
11-21-2010, 5:26 PM
I'll second this. I believe I was at the same class with you.


How many safety violations did you catch? lol

CSDGuy
11-21-2010, 5:31 PM
What conversation do you think I would have with Yeager?

Mr. Yeager doesn't live in a City where political climate dictates whether he can carry concealed or not. Sadly you and I do. So when inexperienced shooters start slapping chambered weapons in their waist bands and castrating themselves, we will be the ones losing our CCW's not Mr. Yeager.

Tactical Response is an AMAZING place to train and to attend one of Mr. Yeagers classes would no doubt be incredible training. However I have never once argued the effectiveness of a chambered weapon in the hands of a trained or experienced individual.

I have however argued the backlash I fear from our great liberal leaders in Sacramento when inexperienced shooters are having accidental discharges, because they opted to carry a round in the chamber.

We've had 500 new applicants recently. How many of those have military, law enforcement or even armed security experience? Now how many are avid shooters, hunters or competitors? Then... How many have little to no experience and simply bought a firearm, because they wanted it, never fired it or only fired it a couple of times.. Now it's been sitting in the closest collecting dust, only for them to now get a CCW and throw it in their waist band. They still deserve the right to self defense, but they shouldn't be encouraged to carry in a manner they aren't comfortable with and aren't trained in...

It's like expecting an EMT to conduct brain surgery...
Nationally, I quite suspect that a LOT of people get a CCW with ZERO training and... have little to no experience with a firearm. And they don't seem to go forth and blast off the family jewels with any sort of regularity... or too many other bits of themselves or others with much regularity either. I would imagine that many CCW holders are hunters/shooters/competitors to begin with, but... I'd be surprised if the vast majority did much beyond what was actually required to get their Carry Permit/License.

hoffmang
11-21-2010, 5:33 PM
Just think of how many Floridians, Texans, Pennsylvanians, Michiganders, Oregonians, Nevadans, and Washingtonians have gotten carry licenses and not had any more NDs than usual.

Can we go back on topic please?

-Gene

RP1911
11-21-2010, 5:34 PM
I was too concerned with the guy next to me shooting a rental to observe anyone else's violations.

Bizcuits
11-21-2010, 8:54 PM
Notice how I'm not saying that the additional training should be a requirement, I'm talking about personal responsibility. I'm not saying they don't have a right to defend themselves, I'm saying they have a duty and responsibility to be safe and proficient carrying in public... However they choose to get there.

I agree with your last little bit... But your opinion seems mildly different then a couple of days ago. Those comments are what set me off. The idea people shouldn't or can't carry, because of this or that...

Exempt A
If you plan on carrying a gun without a round chambered, you have no business getting a CCW

Exempt B
If you're not confident in carrying chambered then maybe you shouldn't do so until you are.





Just think of how many Floridians, Texans, Pennsylvanians, Michiganders, Oregonians, Nevadans, and Washingtonians have gotten carry licenses and not had any more NDs than usual.

Can we go back on topic please?

-Gene

Obviously, because people carry how they see fit and feel comfortable. My issue was with the blatant chest thumping on carry methods in an informational thread (those carrying un-chambered, do not deserve the right to self defense, because they do not meet the standard of others...) :rolleyes:

I'm done though... And sorry for getting off topic.

tiki
11-22-2010, 1:29 PM
I haven't seen any posts about approvals or permits arriving lately. What happened, did they become so routine that nobody is posting or did the letters and permits stop going out?

Shenaniguns
11-22-2010, 1:34 PM
I haven't seen any posts about approvals or permits arriving lately. What happened, did they become so routine that nobody is posting or did the letters and permits stop going out?

Still waiting on my CCW to show up in the mail, tomorrow will make it.....





2 weeks :rolleyes:

sactech
11-22-2010, 2:39 PM
I had one funny experience when I went in yesterday to finalize my paperwork which I forgot to share. I brought in some farm produce items to Amber so that she'd get my permit in the mail to me sooner (j/k, just was pleased with the way she had been helpful) so I had a little white paper bag (i.e., lunch sack). The deputy at the check in window asked me "you don't have your handguns in there, do you??" I chucked and told him that I didn't and thought it would be an odd way to carry them around (pretty concealed though, I guess). He said he had someone bring in their handguns before because they thought they'd want to check them out. ;)

I think this was brought up once before. At http://www.sacsheriff.com/forms/documents/ccw_process.pdf there is the following statement on page 1:


Don't know what they are expecting by putting down the safety inspection comment. There is no mention of that during the various stages of the actual process.



I am going in 1 week after you did, tomorrow, and have my range qualifications and all the approvals (livescans, backgrounds, 16hr class, sheriff approval letters, ect...) do you get the ccw that day or do they send the rice paper in the mail?

tiki
11-22-2010, 3:19 PM
Still waiting on my CCW to show up in the mail


...do you get the ccw that day or do they send the rice paper in the mail?

:-|

harbinger007
11-22-2010, 3:33 PM
There was a back-log of paperwork and Amber told us it might be up to two weeks before we got our permits in the mail. Tomorrow will two weeks for some folks and I am a week after them.

wuluf
11-22-2010, 4:04 PM
Got my final approval letter today! I took the class with Ron on saturday and will put in for the permit after thanksgiving. Boy, am i THANKFUL!!!!!

sactech
11-22-2010, 4:18 PM
My timeline-

6/23 - Made contact with Amber Wong and made an appointment to turn in application
7/22 - Had appointment and turned in all paperwork
7/27 - Check was cashed
7/29 - Got a phone call from Detective Wright
8/27 - Received my approval letter
9/2 - Completed my two day CCW course
9/6 - Got fingerprinted
9/14 - Received a letter that my fingerprints had cleared and I could go in any Tuesday between 9-11am and turn in my range qualification and proof of CCW course
10/5 - Went in to see Amber and turned in all paperwork and wrote a check for $80
10/14 - Received permit in the mail

My good cause was essentially self defense. I mentioned that I walk my dog at night, but that's about it. It was simple and straight forward




I go tomorrow to turn in my certs/quals with guns/"paperwork" what all should I bring? I got my final approval a few weeks ago after my livescan and just needed to finish 16 course which i did.
Thanks
Sactech

sactech
11-22-2010, 4:19 PM
:-|

Thanks Tiki

jb7706
11-22-2010, 4:46 PM
I go tomorrow to turn in my certs/quals with guns/"paperwork" what all should I bring? I got my final approval a few weeks ago after my livescan and just needed to finish 16 course which i did.
Thanks
Sactech

Take your Live Scan paperwork, your CCW class certificate, ID, checkbook, live fire certification and patience.

GundamCL
11-22-2010, 4:54 PM
Is it possible to do the live scan before you get the approval letter?

bruss01
11-22-2010, 4:59 PM
Has the approval committee had their November meeting yet? It's been 5 weeks since my interview and I was hoping/expecting to hear something by now, if only an e-mail to let me know we're moving to the next step of the process...

thebronze
11-22-2010, 5:26 PM
Is it possible to do the live scan before you get the approval letter?

No because you have to take paperwork in with you to the Livescan. That paperwork is given to you with your approval letter.

tiki
11-22-2010, 5:35 PM
Thanks Tiki

Np. Just be prepared to wait.


Edit: and I think it will get worse as more and more people get approved.

thebronze
11-22-2010, 6:14 PM
Np. Just be prepared to wait.


Edit: and I think it will get worse as more and more people get approved.


True that.

hedo59
11-22-2010, 9:49 PM
WooHoo!

Just got a call from Amber and she moved my appointment up from Feb. 10th to December 1st!
I am happy for you. But now I am kinda bummed. I have an appt with Amber 12-23-10 and it sounds like people requesting appts after me are getting moved ahead of me. Certainly nothing I blame anyone here for, just whining I guess. I wish you all the very best.

bruss01
11-23-2010, 6:04 AM
I am happy for you. But now I am kinda bummed. I have an appt with Amber 12-23-10 and it sounds like people requesting appts after me are getting moved ahead of me. Certainly nothing I blame anyone here for, just whining I guess. I wish you all the very best.

I understand this from an administration point of view....

Suppose you hire on extra help or allot more hours for processing CCW apps.... the most "fair" thing would be to move everyone up, in the order they originally scheduled. However, assuming there are 500 people in the queue, that means rescheduling 500 people. If they instead say "anyone scheduled more than two months out can be moved up to fill the newly opened spots" - in that case they maybe have to re-schedule only 250 of them, that's half the calls, half the e-mails, which leaves the time the other half would have taken, available to process more CCW apps. Maybe not the most fair, but reasonably fair and much more efficient administratively speaking.

truthseeker
11-23-2010, 6:55 AM
I am happy for you. But now I am kinda bummed. I have an appt with Amber 12-23-10 and it sounds like people requesting appts after me are getting moved ahead of me. Certainly nothing I blame anyone here for, just whining I guess. I wish you all the very best.

Mine is on the same date as yours (12-23-10) and I have emailed her a few times already asking for my date to be moved up.

Well I guess I will be seeing you on 12-23.

tiki
11-23-2010, 8:29 AM
Still waiting on my CCW to show up in the mail ...

Amber said she is running about two weeks behind and that a batch was mailed out yesterday.

Shenaniguns
11-23-2010, 8:30 AM
Amber said she is running about two weeks behind and that a batch was mailed out yesterday.


Thanks for the update!

FlyboyJS
11-23-2010, 8:45 AM
Went in for app appointment on the 18th of Nov, turned it in and had the interview. Felt pretty good afterwards. Now it's a waiting game like everyone else I guess. They said the next review board meeting isn't until mid Dec, so I won't see anything in the way of a letter until the end of Dec. So I wait.

tiki
11-23-2010, 8:50 AM
Thanks for the update!

Np. Two weeks isn't that bad. Not after already waiting 4 months. ;-)

Bizcuits
11-23-2010, 8:54 AM
I was there at 7AM. One other was already there in the parking lot and another walked in minutes before me. They opened the door at 7:30 and by then there was four of us. I ended up being the 3rd in line. They accepted the first person at about 8:55AM. I went in around 9:10AM, was in Ambers office less then 5 minutes.

She said about 2 weeks, but she is behind. She stated she had gotten some help with applications, but no help yet on the final process.

I left at around 9:20AM and there was about a dozen people in the waiting room. I'm assuming the weather and the fact it's thanksgiving week, that the turnout wasn't the size of the previous weeks.

JeepFreak
11-23-2010, 9:29 AM
Any tips for looking up exact dates and details of prior traffic tickets and such? I want to make sure my application is as accurate as possible, but I don't remember dates and details of any old tickets.

I know I Can go to DMV, but I'm not sure if that's going to show times that I went to traffic school. Also, I got a FTA that was 100% Sac County's fault... I proved it, they apologized and dismissed everything.

Any advice is appreciated.
Billy

bruss01
11-23-2010, 10:15 AM
This just in...

We did meet this month and notices were sent out last Friday (11-19-10). I don not recall whether you were approved or denied as we had over 40 applicants but you should be receiving a letter before the end of this week.
If you do not receive anything by Friday please feel free to re-contact me.

tiki
11-23-2010, 10:20 AM
This just in...

Thanks!

Bizcuits
11-23-2010, 11:14 AM
fyi...

The deputy at the front desk is asking for your original approval letter to make sure people showing up are at the final stage and now just "dropping in". It wasn't required, but was appreciated by the staff. I'd recommend bringing your original letter with you when you drop off the final paperwork.

Shenaniguns
11-23-2010, 12:05 PM
My wife confirmed it came in the mail!

bruss01
11-23-2010, 12:07 PM
This just in...

We did meet this month and notices were sent out last Friday (11-19-10). I don not recall whether you were approved or denied as we had over 40 applicants but you should be receiving a letter before the end of this week.
If you do not receive anything by Friday please feel free to re-contact me.

If true, that works out to a little over ten applicants per week between the two monthly meetings. If they all take about half an hour to submit the initial application and do the interview, that works out to about five hours' worth of appointments on a given Tuesday. With luck we should see that number climbing in the weeks ahead as they bring in reinforcements.

Shenaniguns
11-23-2010, 12:23 PM
I forgot to add that she had to sign for it lol

Shenaniguns
11-23-2010, 3:45 PM
Anyone else need to buy a bigger wallet?

tiki
11-23-2010, 4:02 PM
Anyone else need to buy a bigger wallet?

Me. :-)

Shenaniguns
11-23-2010, 4:06 PM
Me. :-)


Congrats, that's now the secret Calguns password for having a CCW... "Do you need a bigger wallet?" haha :D

tiki
11-23-2010, 5:08 PM
Congrats, that's now the secret Calguns password for having a CCW... "Do you need a bigger wallet?" haha :D

I never really understood the need for a big card like that.
Or why they put your work address on there.
Or the thumbprint.

RP1911
11-23-2010, 5:35 PM
tik tok tik tok. T- 14:25

Lone_Gunman
11-23-2010, 5:41 PM
My wife confirmed it came in the mail!

When did you turn in your final paperwork? The 9th?

Shenaniguns
11-23-2010, 5:44 PM
When did you turn in your final paperwork? The 9th?


Correct

epilepticninja
11-23-2010, 5:45 PM
I haven't seen any posts about approvals or permits arriving lately. What happened, did they become so routine that nobody is posting or did the letters and permits stop going out?

My appointment is on 1-13. Just hanging out until then.

Lone_Gunman
11-23-2010, 5:49 PM
Correct

Thanks. I'm guessing mine will be here next week then...

RP1911
11-24-2010, 5:27 PM
I had my appointment this morning. Didn't get to see Amber :(

While I was waiting in the lobby, Sheriff Elect Jones came in.

Everything was like clockwork. Was met by Ernie (retired annuitant) on the 3rd floor as the elevator opened. He went through my application, witnessed my signatures, collected the $20.00 and escorted me to Sgt. Wright's office. The interview took a few minutes and I was done.

Looks like end of December before the approval denial letter.

As I was leaving Sgt. Wright's office, Ernie was busy with another applicant. In the lobby was an individual with suit and tie. Not sure if he was an applicant or not.


ETA: To Ernie and Sgt. Wright, thank you for the speedy processing and the professionalism.

loves2shootstuff
11-24-2010, 5:59 PM
Has anyone who turned in their application in November received their letter yet?

samonya
11-24-2010, 6:54 PM
. finally got to turn in my app. Everything went great. Everything said before is true. Its a easy experience with down to earth people at the sheriffs office. Now hurry up and wait til end of Dec. A good tip posted before is to write down your drivers license number.

thefinger
11-24-2010, 11:31 PM
I did my livescan on November 3, and I'm still waiting on my background clearance letter from the Sheriff's Office. Anyone else out there wait over 3 weeks for their final livescan letter?

Bizcuits
11-25-2010, 8:42 AM
I did my livescan on November 3, and I'm still waiting on my background clearance letter from the Sheriff's Office. Anyone else out there wait over 3 weeks for their final livescan letter?

That was about the time it took for mine. I'd imagine you'll get it early next week.

jb7706
11-25-2010, 6:07 PM
Beautiful. The biggest complaints in Sac County are now how long it takes to get a permit and how many applicants they take on a given Tuesday. Where were we a year ago again? :)

Rugerdaddy
11-25-2010, 6:43 PM
Beautiful. The biggest complaints in Sac County are now how long it takes to get a permit and how many applicants they take on a given Tuesday. Where were we a year ago again? :)

One more thing to be thankful for on Thanksgiving! :)

charliesierra
11-26-2010, 4:22 PM
One more thing to be thankful for on Thanksgiving! :)

AMEN!

Wolfhound9k
11-27-2010, 12:53 PM
November letter just came in today :D

loves2shootstuff
11-27-2010, 3:22 PM
My letter came today as well :hurray:

harbinger007
11-27-2010, 3:41 PM
Hmm...Amber was out Wednesday through Friday according to her Outlook auto-reply. I wonder if someone else does the mailing.

Bret Daniels
11-27-2010, 9:52 PM
It's great to see so many people being able to exercise their rights as Americans and Sacramento County leading the way for others. Definitely a time to be "Thankful" for the good work done by those here and connected to the cause. Keep up the good work!!!

N6ATF
11-27-2010, 10:29 PM
To be fair, it's not a right until the infringement taxes go away; it's still a privilege.

hoffmang
11-27-2010, 10:31 PM
To be fair, it's not a right until the infringement taxes go away; it's still a privilege.

Not so sure about that as a legal matter. You have a right to counsel but it's not free. See also parade permits.

-Gene

N6ATF
11-27-2010, 11:19 PM
See the right to remain silent. Zipping your trap is free.

hoffmang
11-27-2010, 11:35 PM
See the right to remain silent. Zipping your trap is free.

And has little administrative costs as compared to the right to arms, the right to counsel, etc. etc...

Some people will certainly have an excellent argument that they should be exempt from the fees however.

-Gene

Liberty1
11-28-2010, 12:37 AM
And has little administrative costs as compared to the right to arms, the right to counsel, etc. etc...

Some people will certainly have an excellent argument that they should be exempt from the fees however.

-Gene

In the case of a parade permit, one is occupying a space which would normally be for the free flow of vehicle and ped. traffic. There are costs associated with shutting down streets, operating the reservation and scheduling process, additional police and fire, and sanitation costs which are off set by the fees.

Having a no cost unlicensed, on foot anyway, RKBA openly, as it is in a majority of the states, doesn't interfere with someone else's use of public space. And as is shown in those states unlicensed carry poses no safety issues. I don't see a compelling gov. interest narrowly tailored to make permitting rational like a parade permit. (Sadly I am not a Federal Judge)

Another analogy for unlicensed carry would be that of a solo protester walking a public sidewalk carrying a sign obeying all use of the highway laws. I believe I can do that in all of the US sans permit?

N6ATF
11-28-2010, 8:02 AM
And has little administrative costs as compared to the right to arms, the right to counsel, etc. etc...

Some people will certainly have an excellent argument that they should be exempt from the fees however.

-Gene

The right to arms has no administrative cost, except that which the government usurps in order to infringe and disenfranchise it. Unless you're talking about ammo, which is integral, not administrative.

bruss01
11-28-2010, 11:20 AM
Has anyone who turned in their application in November received their letter yet?

I turned in my paperwork (initial application) on October 28th... and I received my approval (postmarked 11/22) in the mail yesterday (Saturday Nov. 27th).

hoffmang
11-28-2010, 11:29 AM
The right to arms has no administrative cost, except that which the government usurps in order to infringe and disenfranchise it. Unless you're talking about ammo, which is integral, not administrative.

You mean like parade permits?

I wish you were right, but your argument isn't a winner in Federal Court for a long while.

-Gene

Bizcuits
11-28-2010, 11:31 AM
Hmm...Amber was out Wednesday through Friday according to her Outlook auto-reply. I wonder if someone else does the mailing.

pretty sure someone else is helping. Amber mentioned last tuesday that she had some new help around the office for accepting applications.

N6ATF
11-28-2010, 2:47 PM
You mean like parade permits?

I wish you were right, but your argument isn't a winner in Federal Court for a long while.

-Gene

Please rebut Liberty1's parade permits argument.

hoffmang
11-28-2010, 9:36 PM
Please rebut Liberty1's parade permits argument.

Concealed carry has a long tradition of being banned because it had the actual nasty habit of getting people killed in drunken disputes. This one wasn't racist - it was generally scotch-irish on scotch-irish fighting. LOC is just as expensive as a parade from the muni's point of view as it has to field calls and send officers out to check on the activity. That means that the state has a real interest in controlling the time, place, and manner of carry (here concealed) and due to the risk of misuse of concealed firearms (not to mention the number of gang members/felons that conceal w/o a license) the state needs to run a background check which has administrative costs.

That's the argument smart antis will make and it has the added benefit of being supported by the federal judiciary whether we like it or not.

-Gene

BobB35
11-29-2010, 5:20 AM
Concealed carry has a long tradition of being banned because it had the actual nasty habit of getting people killed in drunken disputes. This one wasn't racist - it was generally scotch-irish on scotch-irish fighting. LOC is just as expensive as a parade from the muni's point of view as it has to field calls and send officers out to check on the activity. That means that the state has a real interest in controlling the time, place, and manner of carry (here concealed) and due to the risk of misuse of concealed firearms (not to mention the number of gang members/felons that conceal w/o a license) the state needs to run a background check which has administrative costs.

That's the argument smart antis will make and it has the added benefit of being supported by the federal judiciary whether we like it or not.

-Gene

In other states that may be the case. In CA on the other hand PC 12050 was specifically enacted to keep certain ethnic groups from obtaining permits.

http://old.californiaccw.org/files/sf-chronicle-article.htm

What is also fascinating was that this law was supported by "Pro-gun" people at the time. Oh if they only knew where this would lead.... Kind of like a lot of people today who support measures and don't think them through.

N6ATF
11-29-2010, 8:26 AM
Concealed carry has a long tradition of being banned because it had the actual nasty habit of getting people killed in drunken disputes. This one wasn't racist - it was generally scotch-irish on scotch-irish fighting. LOC is just as expensive as a parade from the muni's point of view as it has to field calls and send officers out to check on the activity. That means that the state has a real interest in controlling the time, place, and manner of carry (here concealed) and due to the risk of misuse of concealed firearms (not to mention the number of gang members/felons that conceal w/o a license) the state needs to run a background check which has administrative costs.

That's the argument smart antis will make and it has the added benefit of being supported by the federal judiciary whether we like it or not.

-Gene

I was under the impression that in Wolanyk v San Diego, San Diego settled in part because the federal judiciary would have ruled against their policy of overreacting to law-abiding people with openly holstered weapons, instead of adopting sooner the nationwide consensus dispatch questioning of "are they actually waving the weapon around in a threatening manner?"

It is only because a minority of government agencies choose to burden themselves with infringing that there are any admin costs to RKBA. Federal courts have ruled time and time again they don't have to do anything, and the 1983 judgments and settlements such as Hannan-Rock v Racine, Wolanyk v San Diego and St. John v Alamogordo seem to say NOT violating the law-abiding is a winning choice.

1FSTREX
11-29-2010, 11:29 AM
I know these questions have been answered but i did a quick search and couldnt find them in this post so i apologize for asking again but 43 pages is quite long to find 2 or 3 individual posts.

- What are the second two Live Scan forms for that the sheriff gives you back? i know one is for your records, what is the other one for?

- Also, i cant turn in my training until Amber sends me a letter in the mail saying she received my live scan correct? and this takes ruffly 3 weeks?

- Someone had posted a website we could check our livescan status at, what was that link again?

- What do we need to turn in once we get the letter from amber saying she received our live scan? Training Cert, anything else?

Thanks and again im sorry for the repeat questions.

Will

tiki
11-29-2010, 12:04 PM
I know these questions have been answered but i did a quick search and couldnt find them in this post so i apologize for asking again but 43 pages is quite long to find 2 or 3 individual posts.

- What are the second two Live Scan forms for that the sheriff gives you back? i know one is for your records, what is the other one for?



You give that one to Amber when you go back to finalize your paperwork


- Also, i cant turn in my training until Amber sends me a letter in the mail saying she received my live scan correct? and this takes ruffly 3 weeks?


It takes roughly a week for her to get the results from the DOJ. Then the time it takes her to type the letter and mail it to you. Thats when you give her the training certificate and that other Livescan form.


- Someone had posted a website we could check our livescan status at, what was that link again?


Sorry, don't have that right now.



- What do we need to turn in once we get the letter from amber saying she received our live scan? Training Cert, anything else?

Thanks and again im sorry for the repeat questions.

Will

You take your livescan page, your training certificate and your $80 check. :)

Bizcuits
11-29-2010, 12:27 PM
I know these questions have been answered but i did a quick search and couldnt find them in this post so i apologize for asking again but 43 pages is quite long to find 2 or 3 individual posts.

- What are the second two Live Scan forms for that the sheriff gives you back? i know one is for your records, what is the other one for?

- Also, i cant turn in my training until Amber sends me a letter in the mail saying she received my live scan correct? and this takes ruffly 3 weeks?

- Someone had posted a website we could check our livescan status at, what was that link again?

- What do we need to turn in once we get the letter from amber saying she received our live scan? Training Cert, anything else?

Thanks and again im sorry for the repeat questions.

Will

The two copies of the live scan are for you. Originally Amber told me I needed to give her a copy, then she admitted in person she gets them sent electronically. I recommend keeping them and bringing them in at the final drop off meeting, "JUST IN CASE". However neither of my two were needed.

I do not know the link, but it will only take about 2-3 weeks and I can assure you Wade, you will be perfectly fine. You wouldn't be where you are right now if you weren't. Also remember once you clear the livescan you don't drop off your paperwork until you get the next letter from Amber, which means even if you spam the website for your status it won't change your actual drop off date / ability.

Training cert, range scores and a check is all you need. However the front desk deputy was also asking to see your letters to ensure people weren't just showing up and squeezing themselves in or as he put it, "a husband and wife show up, the husband has his paperwork done, but not he wife, but they waste time and try to sneak the wife into the process quicker."

I brought a blank check, training cert, range scores, all my original letters and the live scan paperwork, "JUST in case".

If your training is done, just relax and wait for the live scan letter to come. Then plan to take a Tuesday morning off and go drop off the final paperwork.

Good luck and gratz wade!

tiki
11-29-2010, 4:43 PM
Anyone know what the procedure is for changing one of the firearms on the permit?

CSDGuy
11-29-2010, 4:51 PM
AFAIK: qualify with it, take the qual card to Amber on a Tuesday. Receive new card in a week or two. I believe that's the way it's done...

tiki
11-29-2010, 6:25 PM
AFAIK: qualify with it, take the qual card to Amber on a Tuesday. Receive new card in a week or two. I believe that's the way it's done...

Damn, no permit for a week or two. Is there a fee?

Cobrafreak
11-29-2010, 6:48 PM
I got my approval letter on Saturday! I'm going in for the live scan on Wed.

dantodd
11-29-2010, 6:53 PM
Tiki, you turn in your qual card from your trainer with the amendment form, not your permit. The fee should be $10

tiki
11-29-2010, 7:00 PM
Tiki, you turn in your qual card from your trainer with the amendment form, not your permit. The fee should be $10

Dumb question...
What happens to the current permit?

dantodd
11-29-2010, 7:06 PM
Dunno, I guess it's like you old driver's license when they send you a new one.

tiki
11-29-2010, 7:07 PM
Sounds like a way to permit six firearms.

CSDGuy
11-29-2010, 7:16 PM
Dumb question...
What happens to the current permit?
Somehow, I think you keep your current license until your new, amended one arrives in the mail...

harbinger007
11-29-2010, 7:36 PM
I know these questions have been answered but i did a quick search and couldnt find them in this post so i apologize for asking again but 43 pages is quite long to find 2 or 3 individual posts.

- What are the second two Live Scan forms for that the sheriff gives you back? i know one is for your records, what is the other one for?

- Also, i cant turn in my training until Amber sends me a letter in the mail saying she received my live scan correct? and this takes ruffly 3 weeks?

- Someone had posted a website we could check our livescan status at, what was that link again?

- What do we need to turn in once we get the letter from amber saying she received our live scan? Training Cert, anything else?

Thanks and again im sorry for the repeat questions.

Will

Not a web site, but this might be what you were thinking of:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5169096&postcount=14

Also, I had asked Amber via e-mail if I could just come in 10 days after the DOJ automated phone system told me that the report had been completed and she told me no, as she had to wait for a certified copy of their report before mailing out her letter. Worked out okay since the extra time allowed me time to qualify with a second barrel for one of my three weapons. :)

Tomorrow will be :twoweeks: since I turned in all of my final paperwork. Hope my CCW arrives soon!

hoffmang
11-29-2010, 8:40 PM
I was under the impression that in Wolanyk v San Diego, San Diego settled in part because the federal judiciary would have ruled against their policy of overreacting to law-abiding people with openly holstered weapons, instead of adopting sooner the nationwide consensus dispatch questioning of "are they actually waving the weapon around in a threatening manner?"

It is only because a minority of government agencies choose to burden themselves with infringing that there are any admin costs to RKBA. Federal courts have ruled time and time again they don't have to do anything, and the 1983 judgments and settlements such as Hannan-Rock v Racine, Wolanyk v San Diego and St. John v Alamogordo seem to say NOT violating the law-abiding is a winning choice.

We're threadcrapping here so I'd like to knock it off or move to a new thread but.

The Wolanyk problem was the whole hauling him to jail and charging him with a non crime part. The police response is a real cost and is still costly even when done right. Remember that abortion is a right yet government can prohibit the expenditure of government funds to doctors/facilities. Conlaw isn't so friendly and the judiciary isn't going to say that carry license fees that are in line with the administrative costs are not allowed in any court in California. Maybe in Texas or the DC Circuit...

-Gene

N6ATF
11-29-2010, 9:23 PM
Ok, last threadcrap before I unsubscribe, seeing as how I don't plan to move to Sacto sooner than I move to AZ... :p

My point is ultimately, it is the government which chooses to infringe by having police responses *at all* against clearly law-abiding civil rights exercisers (instead of just spending less than a dispatch minute on each MWAG call screening out criminal safety proponents for reports of actual crimes in progress, and hitting a button which kicks the .wavs over to the DA for abusing the 911 system), and to infringe by forced licensing and then forced taxing of the right via said licenses. I can see how getting rid of all the licensing+taxes would be a matter of venue. Circuit split, then SCOTUS.

Rugerdaddy
11-29-2010, 10:47 PM
I brought a blank check, training cert, range scores, all my original letters and the live scan paperwork, "JUST in case".


Range scores? I have no range scores. I have a certificate that I completed CCW training. I'm assuming if range scores were mandatory my instructor would have given them to me.

tiki
11-30-2010, 4:57 AM
Range scores? I have no range scores. I have a certificate that I completed CCW training. I'm assuming if range scores were mandatory my instructor would have given them to me.

You should have qualified with each firearm you plan to have on your permit. The certificate shows that you completed the class, but you also need proof that you qualified with each firearm.

pro-nra
11-30-2010, 6:09 AM
Anyone knows how many guns you can have on your permit? The application only has room for 3 guns.

jb7706
11-30-2010, 6:23 AM
Anyone knows how many guns you can have on your permit? The application only has room for 3 guns.

Legally, no limit. Sac SO policy, unless it has recently changed is 3 or 4.

tiki
11-30-2010, 6:36 AM
Sacramento policy is 3.

Paindoc
11-30-2010, 8:07 AM
Went to SSD this morning to amend CCW to delete/add additional handguns. Arrived at 0805 to find sign on door "No CCW Today," confirmed with delightful curmudgeon at window that one and only person that can handle amendments had called in sick this AM.
Process continues to be deeply flawed. This cost me a day off from work and cost of parking, not to mention waste of time and my frustration.

3B830
11-30-2010, 8:24 AM
Went to SSD this morning to amend CCW to delete/add additional handguns. Arrived at 0805 to find sign on door "No CCW Today," confirmed with delightful curmudgeon at window that one and only person that can handle amendments had called in sick this AM.
Process continues to be deeply flawed. This cost me a day off from work and cost of parking, not to mention waste of time and my frustration.



Document who you spoke with and your time / mileage / monetary losses and send an e-mail/pm to wildhawker just for CGF to keep track of their flawed policies. A pattern of flaws could develops into infringements. :gura::taz:

3B830
11-30-2010, 8:26 AM
Sacramento policy is 3.

Not supported by code thus an unlawful policy.

samonya
11-30-2010, 8:34 AM
I was under the impression that you can have a gun registered in your wife's name on your ccw permit, right? What about a gun owned by your father ?

Bizcuits
11-30-2010, 11:31 AM
Range scores? I have no range scores. I have a certificate that I completed CCW training. I'm assuming if range scores were mandatory my instructor would have given them to me.

Odd, I had mine and she looked at them, even made a copy with the certificate.

You do have to qualify once a year, so I don't see why she wouldn't want to see them as proof you actually qualifed. Perhaps they aren't really needed and the fact I had mine with me, was irrelevant.

Shenaniguns
11-30-2010, 11:38 AM
Depending on who you qualify with you either get what you qualified with or you can be scored, I've done both.

RP1911
11-30-2010, 12:16 PM
I did get a qualification certificate but no range score sheet. I turned in the QualCert with the application.

bruss01
11-30-2010, 12:45 PM
Did the Livescan today at the Marconi location. Showed up at 12:35 pm and saw the window office there (which is inside the Sheriff's station) is closed from 12:30 to 1:00, so I signed in and got some lunch across the street. Was back in the waiting room by 12:59 and the window opened at 1:00 sharp. They called my name from the sign-in sheet immediately. Pretty cool how they do it, a bit of moisture on your printable surfaces and pressed up against a scanning window. First just regular prints, then roll prints. Staff were very friendly! When I walked up to the window the officer said with a smile, "Let me guess, CCW permit?" "Yup, guess you've seen a few of those lately..." "A few!" he said with a wink. All in all we were there just 15 minutes. Good experience!

DGoodale
11-30-2010, 1:09 PM
Went to SSD this morning to amend CCW to delete/add additional handguns. Arrived at 0805 to find sign on door "No CCW Today," confirmed with delightful curmudgeon at window that one and only person that can handle amendments had called in sick this AM.
Process continues to be deeply flawed. This cost me a day off from work and cost of parking, not to mention waste of time and my frustration.

At this rate I'll have to re-qualify before I even get my permit. Deeply flawed indeed, going on a 6 mo. process for me, although I am hopeful for the rice paper to show up within a week.

tiki
11-30-2010, 5:24 PM
Not supported by code thus an unlawful policy.

Yeah, but still policy. :-)

whyter
11-30-2010, 5:48 PM
Got my approval letter yesterday.. A BIG thanks to Gray Peterson, since he was the one that told me I didn't have to wait for a year to apply. I've been in Sac 6 months, turned in my app on Oct 15th, got the letter yesterday.. Wahoo!!

Rugerdaddy
12-01-2010, 8:43 AM
You should have qualified with each firearm you plan to have on your permit. The certificate shows that you completed the class, but you also need proof that you qualified with each firearm.

My certificate states that I attended, passed, and lists the weapons. But, there's no range scores. It must be alright, the same instructor's students are getting CCWs.

ChrisTKHarris
12-01-2010, 8:46 AM
My certificate states that I attended, passed, and lists the weapons. But, there's no range scores. It must be alright, the same instructors students are getting CCWs.

How are range scores determined?

Rugerdaddy
12-01-2010, 8:49 AM
How are range scores determined?

Good question. I think it's a percentage of how many shots hit the target zone.

Shenaniguns
12-01-2010, 9:02 AM
How are range scores determined?


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5042500&postcount=738

ChrisTKHarris
12-01-2010, 9:07 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5042500&postcount=738

Is this standardized across the board for all qualification courses or is that an example of one course's requirements?

Shenaniguns
12-01-2010, 9:09 AM
Is this standardized across the board for all qualification courses or is that an example of one course's requirements?


An example of one places qualifications, I do not think it is standardized since some places differ.

RP1911
12-01-2010, 9:12 AM
Good question. I think it's a percentage of how many shots hit the target zone.

Yup. I was totally surprised how well muscle memory was retained after not being on a range for 10 years. Based on my target, I managed a respectable 488/500 :eek:

Shenaniguns
12-01-2010, 9:15 AM
Yup. I was totally surprised how well muscle memory was retained after not being on a range for 10 years. Based on my target, I managed a respectable 488/500 :eek:


488? It's 50 rounds at 5 points each round and any shot in the 8 ring or better is 5 points, anything else is 0 lol

RP1911
12-01-2010, 9:36 AM
I sent you a PM.

Based on the above 5 point system, I would have scored 245/250.

sactech
12-01-2010, 4:44 PM
Take your Live Scan paperwork, your CCW class certificate, ID, checkbook, live fire certification and patience.

Thanks Sir

Bizcuits
12-01-2010, 6:21 PM
Is this standardized across the board for all qualification courses or is that an example of one course's requirements?

I'm sure each instructor is different (this much is already apparent) and all that matters is you pass that instructors course of fire.

Where I went we did 50 shots, 5 points each, anything outside of the 8 ring was a no hit unless it hit the head. I only managed a 240 on both weapons with a maximum possible score of 250.

derek@thepackingrat.net
12-03-2010, 2:32 PM
Spoke to Amber a moment ago. She related to me that my permit was mailed out yesterday. I suspect that another batch will arrive for the rest of us following a visit to the SCSO on 11/16/2010.

wuluf
12-03-2010, 4:37 PM
I'm turning in final paperwork on tuesday; hope they're accepting CCW this week!