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View Full Version : AR & LEO/Game wardens?


mc209
05-23-2010, 3:07 PM
Hey guys I'm about done with my 6.8 AR OLL build and wanting to go pig hunting with it but just wanted to know if any one has had any encounters with wardens/LEO's with their black rifles? If so did they have the knowledge of them being legal to have with the bullet button?

taperxz
05-23-2010, 3:44 PM
Make sure you have the proper ammunition! No FMJ's

DirtyDave
05-23-2010, 4:04 PM
If the rifle is CA-legal, then it is legal to hunt with. As far as the LEO actually knowing the law on this is another story. Depends on the officer, some know the law and some dont.
You cannot hunt big game with fmj's and if you are in the "condor-zone" you cannot use lead ammo.

ScottB
05-23-2010, 4:18 PM
You might also take along copies of the OLL/AW flow chart, the relevant code and/or CA bill of sale.

Hunt
05-23-2010, 4:43 PM
magazine capacity restrictions--maybe--- check on it---Kalifornia the confiscation state they are out to take what you have, they need to feed their pensions

pieeater
05-23-2010, 6:39 PM
Most of your free states have mag cap restrictions on big game, Ca does not as long as its legaly possesed.


magazine capacity restrictions--maybe--- check on it---Kalifornia the confiscation state they are out to take what you have, they need to feed their pensions

pieeater
05-23-2010, 6:41 PM
You might also take along copies of the OLL/AW flow chart, the relevant code and/or CA bill of sale.

I think a reciept would go along way. I mean hey if this thing is illegal why is Big 5 selling them. lol

Fireguy
05-24-2010, 12:31 AM
What is CA's hunting mag restriction?

ScottB
05-24-2010, 8:04 AM
For shotguns its 2 in the mag, 1 in the chamber

No limit I am aware for rifles. I use a bolt action, so no more than 4 or 5 for me, but for bunnies, my tube fed .22 holds 15 rounds.

As an aside, if you need more than 1 or 2 rounds to bring down an animal, you need to stop and reflect on that fact and make a plan to do better.

Rule .308
05-24-2010, 8:13 AM
My only run in with a LEO while hunting with an AR was with a couple of CHP officers that we picked up exiting the freeway. They were polite, proffesional, and really only checked out our guns as a matter of personal interest. They both owned OLL ARs and wanted to check mine out. It is your basic DPMS Sweet 16 setup with the hammerhead stock adapter in .223. They never bothered to check our ID, hunting licenses, serial #'s, none of that stuff. It was in the middle of the night, they asked what we were up to, we told them hunting, and they said "cool, no problems then". We shot the breeze with them for about 10 minutes, talked of AR's, crazy crap that goes on in the desert in the middle of the night, etc. and then parted ways.

As others have said though, your mileage will vary depending upon who you draw, where you are at, and what you are doing. Myself, so long as everything else is legal and on the up and up I would not let the AR issue bother me, I would also have a copy of the AW flow chart handy though.

igorts
05-24-2010, 9:32 AM
Make sure you have the proper ammunition! No FMJ's

What about FMJ? is there a restriction on it?

Vtec44
05-24-2010, 10:10 AM
What about FMJ? is there a restriction on it?

I'm wondering about the same thing. As far as I know, FMJ is inhumane but I'm not sure if there are laws prohibiting the use of FMJ for hunting in CA.

igorts
05-24-2010, 10:24 AM
FMJ bullets may not be used for big game...

Wow. i did not know that.

ok for small game...

Big Jake
05-24-2010, 10:55 AM
I personally will not hunt with my OLL. I have a mini-.14 and would rather avoid the potential of a problem! :nono:

homerm14
05-24-2010, 11:07 AM
magazine capacity restrictions--maybe--- check on it---Kalifornia the confiscation state they are out to take what you have, they need to feed their pensions

Oh, ok. My pension is fead by me and investment.

mif_slim
05-24-2010, 11:10 AM
What is CA's hunting mag restriction?

a Can(800) if you had it before 2000. lol

mif_slim
05-24-2010, 11:15 AM
For shotguns its 2 in the mag, 1 in the chamber

No limit I am aware for rifles. I use a bolt action, so no more than 4 or 5 for me, but for bunnies, my tube fed .22 holds 15 rounds.

As an aside, if you need more than 1 or 2 rounds to bring down an animal, you need to stop and reflect on that fact and make a plan to do better.

But what if there were tons of them and you only have 1 round? :P

Theres a area somewhere in CA right now (heard it on the radio, dunno if its true) that its squarrel infested and their inviting hunters to go out and help them with population control. They said if you close the door of your car as you get out, the entire hill moves from the squarrels scattering...thats when you need more then 10rnds per mag. lol.

SexPistol
05-24-2010, 11:17 AM
Why is FMJ ammo bad for big game? Don't you want something that will give you good penetration?

igorts
05-24-2010, 11:38 AM
Full Metal Jacket: High penetration, no expansion.

"According to DFG Game Warden Patrick Foy, only “soft-nose or expanding projectiles” may be used to hunt big game because they make the bullet far more lethal, therefore making for a clean kill while hunting (CCR Title 14, section 353). A FMJ bullet does not expand like a soft-nosed bullet and increases the chance the big game animal will escape wounded.

There is no restriction on the expansion quality of a bullet when hunting squirrels, and FMJ bullets are not specifically prohibited for use in CCR Title 14, section 311 (“Methods Authorized for Taking Resident Small Game”). Therefore, you may use FMJ bullets to hunt squirrels. Be aware there are other bullet restrictions in place while hunting in condor range"
Makes sense. I use Barnes Triple Shock to satisfy non-lead and no FMJ anyway or use archery ...:D

mif_slim
05-24-2010, 12:00 PM
Why is FMJ ammo bad for big game? Don't you want something that will give you good penetration?

It'll go thru two animals before stoping..maybe three or four.

Untamed1972
05-24-2010, 2:14 PM
Are pigs considered "big game" though?

taperxz
05-24-2010, 3:06 PM
^^^ YES

slobson
05-24-2010, 3:23 PM
possible redundant question alert:
so a CA legal SKS in 7.62x39 in stock configuration (bayo, fixed ten rounder, etc.) would be legal to take pigs with?

(sorry for thread jack:()

taperxz
05-24-2010, 3:51 PM
^^^ Yes

slobson
05-24-2010, 4:12 PM
thanks taperxz

Howie44
05-24-2010, 4:12 PM
Why is FMJ ammo bad for big game? Don't you want something that will give you good penetration?

You REALLY need to get out in the field. LOL!

Shoot-it
05-25-2010, 9:40 AM
Why is FMJ ammo bad for big game? Don't you want something that will give you good penetration?
that's not it fmj will not expand and just zip right threw. Will not cause damage like a soft point. Also fmj will skip like crazy.

ScottB
05-25-2010, 10:28 AM
Those condor-safe copper solids aren't much better

SexPistol
05-25-2010, 12:16 PM
You REALLY need to get out in the field. LOL!

LOL thanks for opinion I REALLY care! :83:

People like you make this a great place to learn about something new!

theseacow
05-25-2010, 12:37 PM
Why is FMJ ammo bad for big game? Don't you want something that will give you good penetration?

you want trauma which results from good expansion. you need to find a bullet that will penetrate while giving trauma. If a bullet expands too fast and doesn't penetrate very well (very light and fast ballistic tip for example), its not going to be good on a pig since it will just blow up near the surface. If it cuts a lazer small hole all the way through it (like an fmj), its not going to be good on a hog either. It may kill it, but chances are its going to die 5 miles away from where you shot it. You need to find a balance and pay attention to the results of what bullets do. Some people kill an animal with the wrong bullet due to luck, where maybe 8 out of 10 times that animal would run away after being shot with it, then they claim that bullet works just fine since they killed something with it. You have to be smart about your bullet choice, otherwise your bound to just end up disappointed with lost game.

spectr17
05-25-2010, 6:18 PM
From what I've seen to make the copper bullets perform better on hog and elk most hunters are dropping down one size in bullet weight. If you normally shoot 180 grain lead step down to a 165 grain copper. I've filmed a lot of the hogs and elk taken at FHL over the past couple years and they are saving bullets for me to look at. Most copper bullets that are downsized are expanding well and being found on the far side against the hide or clean through. Exactly what you want. The one exception was the complete 12 ga. slug that wasn't expanded at all we found up against the spine in last Dec's elk video.

DirtyDave
05-25-2010, 9:37 PM
Hey Jesse, What brand was the slug? I shoot a slug gun and am curious.

As for the people saying copper doesnt work/expand, I just killed a hog (like many others) with Barnes 180gr TSX in my 30-06. Broad side shot, Pass through, Broken ribs on both sides, Lungs shredded, Stuff hanging out of exit hole, and a killer blood-trail for the 20yds that he made it before lights out.
You hear a lot of BS on the internet, Have heard it before that copper doesnt work and then you gotta think about how many deer/pigs etc have been taken in the condor zone since the ban. There would be a dramatic increase in wounded/escaped animals if this was the case, but that is just not true.
No offense to anyone in particular, but a poor carpenter blames his tools

Howie44
05-25-2010, 10:15 PM
Hey Jesse, What brand was the slug? I shoot a slug gun and am curious.

As for the people saying copper doesnt work/expand, I just killed a hog (like many others) with Barnes 180gr TSX in my 30-06. Broad side shot, Pass through, Broken ribs on both sides, Lungs shredded, Stuff hanging out of exit hole, and a killer blood-trail for the 20yds that he made it before lights out.
You hear a lot of BS on the internet, Have heard it before that copper doesnt work and then you gotta think about how many deer/pigs etc have been taken in the condor zone since the ban. There would be a dramatic increase in wounded/escaped animals if this was the case, but that is just not true.
No offense to anyone in particular, but a poor carpenter blames his tools

Also ask those same guys that complain about the copper rounds if they checked their zero for the different ammo before they used it in the field. Interesting reports on that subject on the DFG website. My POI was several inches different between what I used to use, and the TSX in the same rifle

igorts
05-26-2010, 12:06 AM
Barnes 180gr TSX in my 30-06.

exactly the same caliber/bullet:
i was happy with results

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc43/igorts/003.jpg

As advertised expansion:D, stopped in opposing shoulder, quoter away shot at running pig, ~120 yards

AdiosKali
05-26-2010, 9:28 AM
magazine capacity restrictions--maybe--- check on it---Kalifornia the confiscation state they are out to take what you have, they need to feed their pensions

Can you expound on how the two are related?

fallbrook79
05-26-2010, 9:37 PM
i hunt with my oll all the time i have ran in to one warden checking to see if we had our chambers loaded in the truck and he didnt even ask about my oll.i dont buy guns to keep in the safe and look at

devildog999
05-27-2010, 1:54 AM
Most of your free states have mag cap restrictions on big game, Ca does not as long as its legaly possesed.

I would have to say Allan that it is extremely surprising that saying as Cali is so anti gun, we don't have the cap restriction. Tho I don't doubt it, one can't help but find it a bit humorous.

mc209
05-27-2010, 9:18 AM
I agree with you fallbrook that's y i asked you guys at Calguns before i headed out hunting with it. Whats the point if your going to be intimidated even though your with in your legal right. Though i know how bad our court system is that even though your innocent it costs an arm and leg just to prove it. And all it takes is one uninformed or moody officer to confiscate it. Is there any knock on their yearly review or job performance if they confiscate something that's legal and you complain about it?

DirtyDave
05-27-2010, 12:03 PM
Also ask those same guys that complain about the copper rounds if they checked their zero for the different ammo before they used it in the field. Interesting reports on that subject on the DFG website. My POI was several inches different between what I used to use, and the TSX in the same rifle

Yep, In my 30-06 there is a 7" difference in height of POI between lead and copper at 200yds.

We are getting a bit off subject here, Bottom line is if the gun is CA legal, you are good to go. Ammo, no lead in condor-zone and no fmj for big game.
Get out there and hunt!

franklinarmory
05-27-2010, 6:19 PM
There are no restrictions on magazine capacity while hunting big game with a rifle so long as you own the magazine legally. (e.g. before the ban.) I think in years past there was a limit of 5 rounds, but I checked with a game warden just last month and his exact quote was "I don't care if you use a banana clip!" Of course you will be using a magazine with ten rounds or less on a BB equipped rifle.:43:

My wife took a nice hog with our pre-production 6.8 last December. It was devastating. I also used our 5.56 NATO production model on a hog in March. I was out of the Condor zone so I used a 64gr. WW bullet. It hit the hog on the run and broke both front legs at 200 yards. Given the choice though, the 6.8 is a better caliber for that size game and the Barnes bullets work great.

jaymz
05-27-2010, 7:24 PM
6.8 ftw! Mine goes out with me every year.

mc209
05-27-2010, 11:47 PM
Thats good to know frank because i was building my 6.8 specifically for hog hunting and as my back up for deer hunting. Was going to keep the mag at 10 but i heard you had a restriction of 5 bullets while hunting i was gonna verify before i took it out hunting.

Point of Impact
05-28-2010, 11:47 PM
I've taken my 6.8 out on a few hunts with a 5rd mag, I too used to worry about game wardens and LEO's but after seeing what a handy 16" barreled 6.8 can do, its hard to leave it in the safe when going on a hunt. My recipe for a successful hunt: 85 gr barnes tsx traveling 3100 fps out of a 16" barrel aimed right behind the pig's ear. Hasn't failed yet. Enjoy that 6 8!

franklinarmory
05-29-2010, 7:57 AM
I've taken my 6.8 out on a few hunts with a 5rd mag, I too used to worry about game wardens and LEO's but after seeing what a handy 16" barreled 6.8 can do, its hard to leave it in the safe when going on a hunt. My recipe for a successful hunt: 85 gr barnes tsx traveling 3100 fps out of a 16" barrel aimed right behind the pig's ear. Hasn't failed yet. Enjoy that 6 8!
That'll work. ...but you can use a ten rounder if you want. There's no law against it. :D

jtv3062
05-31-2010, 1:41 PM
I ran into a GW in the hills between Castro valley and Dublin the weekend before the turkey opener. I talked to her a little bit about off list rifles and hunting she had said they have been schooled about the off list rifles being legal to hunt with. but this doesn't mean you won't get hasseled

mc209
06-01-2010, 12:23 PM
Hey JTV thats good to hear did you get a sense that the Warden was knowledgeable on what makes a black rifle legal and illegal? Did you get a sense if she was against black rifles?

spectr17
06-01-2010, 7:51 PM
Dirty Dave, it was a Federal Premium Barnes Expander Tipped copper slug. Some are guessing the shot was over 100 yards which may cause the slug not to open up and perform correctly when it hits meat. I can't recall what the hunter said the shot was for distance. I'm guessing the slug tumbled (keyholed) in sideways.

You can see the slug at the 8:45 mark in this FHL video

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thingreenline
06-01-2010, 8:40 PM
I just wanted to throw out that most wardens are very educated with weapons since they need to have knowledge to handle, check, and clear weapons safely in the field when checking hunters and the public therefor they are up to date with current gun laws more so than many other LEOs that simply pull weapons off criminals.

jtv3062
06-05-2010, 5:44 PM
Hey JTV thats good to hear did you get a sense that the Warden was knowledgeable on what makes a black rifle legal and illegal? Did you get a sense if she was against black rifles?

She didn't seem to be against black rifles. She did mentioned that her and the other wardens were more interested in hunting since becoming warden. That is good news since I have read that the younger wardens were more of a antihunting group.