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Deuce22
03-15-2006, 8:24 AM
I have the chance to head out on a Texas Tactical hunt at the end of the month for hogs and rams. Has anyone attempted to fly out of Orange County or any other airline yet with their "rifle". I want to take it knowing it is in 100% legal configuration yet I don't want to miss my flight attempting to convence TSA or any Sheriff's that it is not an AW nor do I have AW registration paper work because it is not an AW. I have traveled many times thru the airlines with hunting rifles and pistols for USPSA matches and have had marginal problems even with them taken apart to show I am as consirned about safety as they are. I have never been told "No" I can not board the flight but I have had to from time to time jump thru flaming hoops to board the plane with going thru everything short of a bend over and KY check. I want to take the new toy or toys but is it worth the chance of possiable having it pulled from me until it is deemed that I can own it and travel with it? Just wondering if you would do it.:rolleyes:

PanzerAce
03-15-2006, 8:34 AM
truthfully? I would not take it. If it is listed while you are out of state, you are going to be in a world of hurt.

bwiese
03-15-2006, 9:03 AM
I may be that member that Technical Ted referred to above...

I fly once or twice a year w/multiple black guns. Sometimes two ARs, sometimes an AR and a FAL.

I do carry my CA AW reg papers 'just in case' - but less out of concern for TSA, (who seem not to know/care about AW laws and just worry about safe storage) than for the local airport cops if for some reason my Starlight case were to be inspected before I got to the counter area to check in.

I've never had any problems other than the airline counter girl not knowing the rules and wanting to 'inspect' my rifle at the counter for being unloaded. (After I asked her if she really knew what a rifle looks like unloaded vs loaded and she acknolwedged that she didn't, the problem went away.)

Right now I would not travel in/out of state with off-list ARs etc. One big issue is if the gun gets 'named' or 'listed' while you're out of state - there may be murkiness on whether or not you should bring it back into CA after that.

xLusi0n
03-15-2006, 10:36 AM
truthfully? I would not take it. If it is listed while you are out of state, you are going to be in a world of hurt.

What would it matter as long as he is a CA resident and has the serial # etc... to complete the paperwork and send it in?

bwiese
03-15-2006, 11:13 AM
What would it matter as long as he is a CA resident and has the serial # etc... to complete the paperwork and send it in?

It's not about ability to register, it's about being busted for importing an AW.

Remember, the law treats importation and possession in different areas of the law.

PC 12280(g) protects you against charges of possession of an unreg'd AW during the 90 day registration window - that is, it only protects against 12280(b), not 12280(a). And 12280(b) unreg'd possession penalties are relatively mild (misdemeanor).

In fact given 12280(a) and thinking things over more, I would not transport even within CA a newly-declared AW during the reg period until reg papers had been filed (and, ideally, your reg paperwork is received back).


12280(a)(1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six, or eight years

But we also do have:

12280(q) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the importation into this state of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle by the registered owner of that assault weapon, if it is in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (c) of Section 12285.

So this gives exemption to importation as long as it's reg'd - meaning you're kinda 'exposed' if it ain't reg'd.

Deuce22
03-15-2006, 11:16 AM
I am thinking I would be better off not taking them. I have friends that are bringing tons of their toys that I can use. I would rather use my new hardware on a hog...but for the chance of becoming a test case or just having the rifle inpounded for awhile is not my idea of having a good hunt. I was thinking the same as you were but wanted to check and make sure I wasn't just being nervous. I will take the other rifle I was going to use on the Aoudad rams. If I get some hogs and the ram I will post the pics.:D

bwiese
03-15-2006, 11:22 AM
Deuce22...

If you have existing legal reg'd AWs, don't be afraid of flying with them (or hicap mags) out of and back into CA. Carry your reg papers with you 'just in case'.

Otherwise for currently off-list stuff, wait till all this hubbub is over.

ohsmily
03-15-2006, 11:48 AM
I am thinking I would be better off not taking them. I have friends that are bringing tons of their toys that I can use. I would rather use my new hardware on a hog...but for the chance of becoming a test case or just having the rifle inpounded for awhile is not my idea of having a good hunt. I was thinking the same as you were but wanted to check and make sure I wasn't just being nervous. I will take the other rifle I was going to use on the Aoudad rams. If I get some hogs and the ram I will post the pics.:D

Are you seriously hunting hog and rams with .223? I hope not...I will assume that you have a heavier caliber upper on your AR like 458SOCOM or something like that.
Hunting pig and ram with a 22 caliber bullet doesn't seem ethical or effective (high probability that you would not get a clean kill unless you put multiple rounds into the animal).

-hanko
03-15-2006, 12:03 PM
+1 Ohsimly.

Not at all a desireable caliber for rams and/or hogs...

Why are you thinking of a .223??

-hanko

Deuce22
03-15-2006, 12:24 PM
I am using a beautiful custom Husky .270 w/ 150gr Barnes X bullet for the ram and hogs. The .223 was for the nightly bobcat,coyote hunts the the ranch and guides put on ($50 credit for each off your hunt). I have seen small pigs taken from waterholes with a good hand loaded .223 and 22-250 before. These hogs are 250 to 300lbs range and are not in that line up for the .223. My new toys are offlisted and fixed 10 rounds so I do not have AW paper work....yet;)

Deuce22
03-15-2006, 12:31 PM
Only if my LMT 6.8 spc barrel,bolt and mags came in on time for my 2 MRP's.:eek: But that isn't going to happen with out all the planets lineing up jusssssst right.

4ME&MYHOUSE
03-15-2006, 12:34 PM
.223 not good enough for hogs/rams? Then why are we sending our troops out with .223 to whack fanatics?

swhatb
03-15-2006, 12:44 PM
a few years back went to oakland international for a flight to friendly gun state and when i declared a firearm in the checked luggage the guy at the airline counter asked me to pull it out and SHOW him that it was unload :eek: needles to say we had problems from that point forward...

bwiese
03-15-2006, 1:03 PM
a few years back went to oakland international for a flight to friendly gun state and when i declared a firearm in the checked luggage the guy at the airline counter asked me to pull it out and SHOW him that it was unload :eek: needles to say we had problems from that point forward...


There is no airline that I know of that requires this. You are instead required to attest that it is unloaded and sign the card (and drop it in the case).

Ask the guy if he knows what that particular gun looks like, unloaded vs loaded.

If they still insist, tell them that you're worried that pulling the gun out of the case will scare the natives...

Carry a copy of the airline's hazmat regulations with you - they're printed on the website.

It can be a good idea to transport guns broken down if possible - that reduces qualms about loaded status, etc.

swhatb
03-15-2006, 1:23 PM
There is no airline that I know of that requires this. You are instead required to attest that it is unloaded and sign the card (and drop it in the case).

Ask the guy if he knows what that particular gun looks like, unloaded vs loaded.

Carry a copy of the airline's hazmat regulations with you - they're printed on the website.

It can be a good idea to transport guns broken down if possible - that reduces qualms about loaded status, etc.
even though i did attest that it was unloaded and signed the card and put it in the box, the clerk wanted to inspect it. a copy of the airline's hazmat regs. helped and that there was a cop near by that was glad to ATTEST that it was unload and stored properly per the regs. from that point fwd, all guns i take are transported stripped down, so there isn't any questions, a copy of my paperwork of ownership, 4473, b/c one i had a tsa person not believe the item was mine. prob. was solved when a airport cop showed up at my request, there pretty quick, and had him look at kalifornia ccw. make & model listed:D the cop said he didn't like people to carry, but realized that since i had one it was obviously for a reason :)

Deuce22
03-15-2006, 1:40 PM
I have never been asked to prove it was unloaded at the counter. I always tell them "the firearms has been completed be taken apart so there is no chance of any accidents" I then hand them the keys to the case and tell them where I will wait while they check it out after I fill out the little airline form. I have had many problems traveling with reloaded ammo to matches thru the airlines. 1. Why do I have so much ammo. 2. your allowed 11lbs of ammo only. 3. I reload and place them in Dillion plastic ammo 100 round boxes. (airlines require factory packaging) Yes I know it is not factory boxes but the ammo isn't factory loaded. I learned to grab boxes from the trash at the ranges for this reason.

Mesa Tactical
03-15-2006, 1:50 PM
The TSA whiteshirts might not understand the legal intracacies of the current situation.

That's an understatement. Last year we did a trade show in New Jersey, so rather than bring shotguns to an even more restrictive state than California for our exhibit, we thought we would use Blue Guns instead. So we loaded up our exhibit and Blue Guns and flew to Newark.

No incidents on the way there, but coming back through Newark I was pulled aside and my bags were examined by the TSA. I didn't think much of it, they were, after all, Blue Guns, but while I stood by first two, then three, then four, then five TSA guys, including two supervisors, came by to inspect my baggage. The most daring of them actually picked up one of the Blue Guns and handled it. After about ten minutes of this, they waved me over. The first TSA guy I spoke to asked me - I swear I'm not making this up - if they were loaded. I was kind of pissed off at this point, not because of the delay, but because they were all such asshats and here they were supposed to be responsible for the security of airline passengers. I said, "Are you joking? They're not even real guns!" Then a supervisor came over and asked me a lot of superfluous questions before having the guys zip everything up and check them through.

Remember this, Mr and Mrs America, next time you stand in line for an hour at the airport before you surrender your nail clippers and fountain pens to the morons in the white shirts: they are from the Government; they are there to protect you.

We would have been better off taking real guns.

PIRATE14
03-15-2006, 3:24 PM
Checking guns in at the Airport is always interesting and never a dull moment.......believe me...

I travel a lot of places w/ all types of weapons.....TSA guys don't have a clue what they are looking at....

Be courteous to them and act like you know exactly what you are doing and know the laws.......this will get you by.

I use pelican cases...because they are built like tanks w/ big master locks. I usually never carry ammo, ship this ahead of time if you can.

Arrive early and expect lots of delays........silly questions....:(

Pig hunting with a 5.56 is OKAY....they drop like rocks w/ a headshot:D

vtecteg4u
03-15-2006, 4:29 PM
.223 not good enough for hogs/rams? Then why are we sending our troops out with .223 to whack fanatics?
They work, but why do you think they came up with the 458socom?

TheMan
03-15-2006, 5:32 PM
There is no airline that I know of that requires this. You are instead required to attest that it is unloaded and sign the card (and drop it in the case).


Every time I have flown America West, they have asked me to verify that it is unloaded. It is in their regulations stated on their website that they require you to demonstrate that it is unloaded. No big deal though, since you have to open the case anyhow to put in that declaration card.
http://www.americawest.com/awa/content/traveltools/baggage/specialitems.aspx#firearms

"A passenger who presents baggage containing a firearm must declare and demonstrate that the weapon is unloaded."

artherd
03-15-2006, 11:57 PM
+1 Ohsimly.
Not at all a desireable caliber for rams and/or hogs...
Why are you thinking of a .223??
-hanko

.223 black hills 77gr OTM absolutely body-slams hogs in my (somewhat limited) expierence.

Of course, real men use a soft-point .338Lapua Mag :D

yiha
03-16-2006, 12:14 AM
.223 not good enough for hogs/rams? Then why are we sending our troops out with .223 to whack fanatics?

the ammo they use's primary objective is to wound, not kill. standard ball projectiles.

RoboTech
03-16-2006, 3:38 AM
.223 black hills 77gr OTM absolutely body-slams hogs in my (somewhat limited) expierence.

Of course, real men use a soft-point .338Lapua Mag :D

Diddo! I love my AR 30:D

gmcem50
03-16-2006, 8:59 AM
There is no airline that I know of that requires this. You are instead required to attest that it is unloaded and sign the card (and drop it in the case).

The last time I flew Southwest out of John Wayne, the ticket agent made me take them out and go through all sorts of rediculous gyrations to show that they were not loaded.

Ask the guy if he knows what that particular gun looks like, unloaded vs loaded. If they still insist, tell them that you're worried that pulling the gun out of the case will scare the natives...

An EXCELLENT idea! I will definitely try this from now on.

Carry a copy of the airline's hazmat regulations with you - they're printed on the website.

I also do this every time I fly w/ guns.

It can be a good idea to transport guns broken down if possible - that reduces qualms about loaded status, etc.

Another excellent idea; I will definitely do this from now on.

Thanks for the good tips!:D