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View Full Version : How can I lighten the lift on my bolt.


calibanman
05-18-2010, 11:59 AM
I was shooting my Savage 10fp bolt rifle this weekend and wished that I could lessen the force it took to lift my bolt knob to cycle it. I either have to use my thumb or my off have on the stock to hold the stock in place while I lifted. Is there anything I can do to loosen it up?

ar15barrels
05-18-2010, 12:23 PM
That's a known issue with the Savage action.
Due to the striker design, they have a steeper camming angle that draws back the striker than most other bolt actions.
That's why the bolt lift is harder.

Sharpshooter supply will re-cut the ramp to an easier angle, but you are changing the original design.
If you really want to customize a precision rifle, there are many more aftermarket parts options for the remington 700 than the savage.

wildcard
05-18-2010, 12:27 PM
AR15 jumps right into that Remington is better than Savage debate :)

ar15barrels
05-18-2010, 12:30 PM
AR15 jumps right into that Remington is better than Savage debate :)

It's not really a debate, more like a fact.

Bug Splat
05-18-2010, 1:18 PM
It's not really a debate, more like a fact.

Oh snap! No you didn't!:D

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/pumpputnam/oh_no_you_didnt.gif

There are a few things you can do lighten the lift. Cut the firing pin spring down, re-angle and polish the ramp, use a 38spl case with ball bearing or a Bolt Lift Kit which is the same thing.

rksimple
05-18-2010, 1:43 PM
As soon as I saw this thread, I knew it was going to be about a Savage. :D

You can try the fixes listed above to improve it. Still won't be as nice as a worn in Remmy.

mif_slim
05-18-2010, 2:17 PM
Dun Dun Dun!

Group B
05-18-2010, 2:27 PM
http://img1.tvloop.com/img/showpics/7f/d0/l35cd1e570000_1_1874.jpg

"Oh no you didn't..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wonder Woman owns a Savage!

ar15barrels
05-18-2010, 3:25 PM
Round 17 of Savage vs. Remington has officially begun.

Fjold
05-18-2010, 3:32 PM
The Savage design of the cocking ramp is a helical cut but the factory cuts it with a straight end mill. Fred at Sharp Shooter Supply grinds a hollow end mill that cuts the ramp closer to the true helical design of the drawings.

My re-worked Savage 243 with the cocking ramp re-cut by Fred is shipping right now and it's supposed to be delivered on the 20th. I'll bring it up to the CPRC shoot on the 22nd so people can play with it.

calibanman
05-18-2010, 4:09 PM
Frank, How much did that job run you if you don't mind me asking?

oops
05-18-2010, 5:58 PM
Mine is still a little stiff but is much better than when it was new. Give it a lettle time and it will break in.. as soon as it gets broken in and smooths out a little then you will get ejecting problems like me :mad: I have dealt with SSS once and am currently trying to get ahold of them right now again. Good luck.. Their products seem to be great but they are frustrating to deal with when you want to get anything done

calibanman
05-18-2010, 6:52 PM
I don't get to go out to shoot much maybe 2x a year and even then its 50 rounds each time, so it could take decades to loosen up. lol.

huckberry668
05-18-2010, 7:25 PM
I was shooting my Savage 10fp bolt rifle this weekend and wished that I could lessen the force it took to lift my bolt knob to cycle it. I either have to use my thumb or my off have on the stock to hold the stock in place while I lifted. Is there anything I can do to loosen it up?

The real solution is recut the cocking ramp but this little ball bearing device along will do wonders. all you need is a 38spl case and a 5/32" ball bearing and some epoxy. I made a few and installed in 3 Savage rifles. reduced the bolt lift by about 40% and three of them cost less than $2. here is how: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1660661

It's not as complicated. all you need is a saw or Dremel tool. no precision is needed cutting the 38spl case head.

BTW, Savage rifles quality isn't close to that of Remington but the design concept is 2nd to none. Check out how Remington copies it and calls it "MSR". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofu_oRV8PrE

Fjold
05-18-2010, 7:32 PM
Frank, How much did that job run you if you don't mind me asking?


A complete time and true (T&T) of the action by SSS is $115.
Check their website under Gunsmithing services
www.sharpshootersupply.com


I had a custom stock built, glass bedded it, a T&T, and some minor parts replaced, cocking pin, cocking sleeve, trigger guard. (I had over 20K rounds through this action and it's on its fourth barrel.)

Getting a hold of Lisa to get on the list for service is a problem and the lead times are horrible. I got on the list in September, shipped my gun in February and am getting it back in May. But my stock had to be built as a one off complete custom job because it is a left handed, detachable magazine rifle with the mag release button built into the side of the stock wood, on an old J action that has a stock screw spacing and footprint that hasn't been made in 20+ years.

bohoki
05-18-2010, 7:45 PM
just glop it with some antisieze paste

Bug Splat
05-18-2010, 7:53 PM
Check out how Remington copies it and calls it "MSR". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofu_oRV8PrE

:rofl:

That's worth another "Oh Snap"

Somewhere in Socal Randall is trying to get a grip on the world he thought he knew :p.

Just kidding, R. You are still the man ;)

Beetle Bailey
05-18-2010, 8:13 PM
I have a Savage 10FP as well and didn't really like the bolt-lift so I just ordered an extended bolt handle from SSS. It's easy to change the bolt handle yourself, BTW.

The extended bolt handle gives me a lot more leaverage to open and close the bolt - it's comparatively effortless now. I can just use the palm of my hand and I love it.

But the bigger issue is that you only shoot 100 rounds out of the gun in a year? You have a good rifle, gotta go shooting more. . .

UserM4
05-18-2010, 8:13 PM
The real solution is recut the cocking ramp but this little ball bearing device along will do wonders. all you need is a 38spl case and a 5/32" ball bearing and some epoxy. I made a few and installed in 3 Savage rifles. reduced the bolt lift by about 40% and three of them cost less than $2. here is how: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1660661

It's not as complicated. all you need is a saw or Dremel tool. no precision is needed cutting the 38spl case head.

BTW, Savage rifles quality isn't close to that of Remington but the design concept is 2nd to none. Check out how Remington copies it and calls it "MSR". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofu_oRV8PrE

There was a DIY in there somewhere? All I saw was some bouncin jigglies. :yes::yes:

huckberry668
05-18-2010, 9:22 PM
you don't see the DIY? deprime a 38spl or 357Mag case. cut the case off at 1/10" from the rim and glue the 5/32" ball bearing in the primer pocket. Remove the hex bolt holding the bolt handle to the bolt body. install the case head lift kit then reinstall the bolt handle & screw down the hex bolt so it's riding on the ball bearing. here is a picture of the end product.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa83/huckster357/bbcockingbutton.jpg

phish
05-18-2010, 9:41 PM
I tried that mod and measured the difference with an Imada force gauge. There was a negligible reduction in the amount of force needed to lift the bolt, so I just wound up removing it. I think after +3k rounds and countless dry firing, my Savage action is about as smooth as it's going to get.

The smoothest action I own so far is a 35 year old Winchester, it must have been passed around like the town ho during those years.

ar15barrels
05-18-2010, 10:43 PM
BTW, Savage rifles quality isn't close to that of Remington but the design concept is 2nd to none. Check out how Remington copies it and calls it "MSR". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofu_oRV8PrE

You don't know what you are talking about.
The MSR is nothing like a savage.
The MSR is more like a bolt action back end fitted into an AR upper reciever and front end.
The MSR uses barrel extensions that are captive to the barrel.
This is more like a DTA SRS or an LMT MRP than any other bolt gun.

ar15barrels
05-18-2010, 10:46 PM
:rofl:

That's worth another "Oh Snap"

Somewhere in Socal Randall is trying to get a grip on the world he thought he knew :p.

Hardly.
I checked out the MSR at shot show.
The barrel extensions are longer than AR-10 barrel extensions.
They are more like the LWRC PEPR barrel extensions as far as length goes.

NOTHING like a savage.
On the savage, the barrel screws into the reciever and the bolt locks into the reciever (same as a mauser, winchester 70, rem 700 etc).
On an AR, MRP, DTA or an MSR, the bolt locks into the barrel extension and the barrel extension is clamped into the reciever.

huckberry668
05-20-2010, 2:09 PM
you missed where i said 'design concept'. Rem improved the detail design of the MSR but nothing like a Savage? which other bolt gun is designed with a barrel nut for faster/cheaper barrel change? which other bolt gun is designed with a floating bolt head?

I didn't say Savage was better I just said its design concept was good.

huckberry668
05-20-2010, 2:18 PM
[QUOTE=phish;4311127]I tried that mod and measured the difference with an Imada force gauge. There was a negligible reduction in the amount of force needed to lift the bolt, so I just wound up removing it. I think after +3k rounds and countless dry firing, my Savage action is about as smooth as it's going to get.
[QUOTE]

Well, it improved mine. I'd say try it since it costs next to nothing. much cheaper than $115 plus shipping both ways and the long wait.

ar15barrels
05-20-2010, 3:13 PM
you missed where i said 'design concept'. Rem improved the detail design of the MSR but nothing like a Savage? which other bolt gun is designed with a barrel nut for faster/cheaper barrel change? which other bolt gun is designed with a floating bolt head?

I didn't say Savage was better I just said its design concept was good.


Do you even understand the difference between how a savage breeches and how an AR breeches?

AR's use barrel nuts too.
AR bolt heads float too.
The MSR is an AR design, not a savage design.

Look at what the barrel nut on the savage is doing and then look at what the barrel nut on the AR is doing and they are VERY different things.

The savage reciever is a stressed member.
The AR and MSR recievers are non-stressed members.

Fjold
05-20-2010, 3:35 PM
you missed where i said 'design concept'. Rem improved the detail design of the MSR but nothing like a Savage? which other bolt gun is designed with a barrel nut for faster/cheaper barrel change? which other bolt gun is designed with a floating bolt head?

I didn't say Savage was better I just said its design concept was good.

The new Mossberg bolt gun uses a smooth barrel nut like the Savage CDL and the Kimber bolt rifle uses the slotted Savage barrel nut design. I know that the Kimber uses a floating bolthead also.

ke6guj
05-20-2010, 4:03 PM
you missed where i said 'design concept'. Rem improved the detail design of the MSR but nothing like a Savage? which other bolt gun is designed with a barrel nut for faster/cheaper barrel change? which other bolt gun is designed with a floating bolt head?

I didn't say Savage was better I just said its design concept was good.If you want to compare it to a bolt gun, the EDM arms Windrunner uses that concept. I look at it as a copy of the Uzi barrel attachment.

ar15barrels
05-20-2010, 4:14 PM
If you want to compare it to a bolt gun, the EDM arms Windrunner uses that concept. I look at it as a copy of the Uzi barrel attachment.

It's more like an AR due to it's use of a barrel extension for breeching.
The UZI barrel nut simply retains the barrel into the reciever and the bolt slides against the back of the barrel to breech.
The reciever is a stressed member in this respect, but much less stress due to it being a blowback design.

huckberry668
05-20-2010, 7:44 PM
:)..