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cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 2:32 PM
I've been on the site for a while now, and the vast majority of the time I have been in the background just absorbing and learning. I hear a lot of complaining (rightfully so) about our lack of firearm rights, however I do not hear a lot about getting up and channeling your complaints into progressive acts to expand our rights. The problem in this state is not CLEO or police taking away our rights, they are simply upholding an oath to uphold the law. The problem is in our legislation, We (normal joe-blow citizen) are not doing anything to stand up to our legislators (that we have put into office) besides letting the mighty NRA and other pro-gun organization take on the laws AFTER they have been put in place in the courts with laws suits etc.
I might be uninformed or unaware of previous attempts, but how about writing our legislators on a regular basis about our 2a concerns? I know if I were a legislator and I started to receive letters about citizen's concerns on gun rights before a bill came up, I might be much more willing to be pro 2a in my voting. If the entire pro-gun population and others joined in and wrote on a regular basis we might even see a shift towards the *writing and passing of pro 2a bills*- maybe I'm dreaming but I think at this point in the game it might be worth a shot. If we do not, and are not, express our concerns directly to those responsible for change, then we cannot expect or get mad when things in the legislation do not go our way.
I know that if members on this site and other sites were able to kick off a national "open-carry" movement that gained enough momentum to make national headlines, then a national (and statewide) movement to write our representatives is very possible.
Thoughts?

EDIT 051610 @ 1801 FOR EMPHASIS ON INDIVIDUALS OVER ORGANIZATIONS

N6ATF
05-16-2010, 2:47 PM
There are wonderful devices called trash cans and off switches.

Our elected criminals will make good use of them if every single law-abiding citizen were to contact them on a regular basis.

They represent criminals only; our concerns are anathema.

If you identify yourself as a criminal, and write from that POV ("disarm all my victims, please!"), then they'll definitely work on your behalf.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 2:57 PM
There are wonderful devices called trash cans and off switches.

Our elected criminals will make good use of them if every single law-abiding citizen were to contact them on a regular basis.

They represent criminals only; our concerns are anathema.

If you identify yourself as a criminal, and write from that POV ("disarm all my victims, please!"), then they'll definitely work on your behalf.

LOL, and I understand your frustration. I did not mean for "Regular basis" to mean everyday. I meant for us to write them about gun control in *general* not just when an anti-2a bill comes up...

N6ATF
05-16-2010, 3:07 PM
It's not like we'll catch them off guard... in my experience, they have email filters set up to delete anything pro-public safety at any time and autosubscribe the sender to their BS newsletters, and letters get boilerplate irrelevant replies folded and stuffed by the lackeys.

timdps
05-16-2010, 4:29 PM
If you identify yourself as a criminal, and write from that POV ("disarm all my victims, please!"), then they'll definitely work on your behalf.

Has anyone actually tried this?



Back to the OP's question. Nothing positive is likely to happen through the legislature any time soon. We are waiting for the MacDonald decision, and assuming a positive result, the CGF/CRPA/Second Amendment Foundation/NRA lawsuits to strike down California's many (post MacDonald) unconstitutional gun laws.

Tim

CHS
05-16-2010, 4:57 PM
I've been on the site for a while now, and the vast majority of the time I have been in the background just absorbing and learning. I hear a lot of complaining (rightfully so) about our lack of firearm rights, however I do not hear a lot about getting up and channeling your complaints into progressive acts to expand our rights.

Really? Then you must not be paying attention.

First, we had Heller.

Next up is McDonald:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/McDonald_v._Chicago

Once McDonald is decided in our favor (which it probably will be), then local challenges can really start moving forward such as the final resolution to Nordyke (Doubly incorporates the 2A to California):
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Nordyke_v._King

Then we've also got one of my personal favorite cases to challenge the "safe" handgun roster, Pena:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid

There's also Sykes challenging our "may issue" CCW laws in CA:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Sykes_v._McGinness

Then there's a couple ones at the Federal level that us Californians will not only benefit from, but some of us have an active role in the challenges. Palmer would challenge the lack of reciprocity in CCW's as well as the inability for non-residents of an area to get firearms licenses and CCW's:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Palmer_v._District_of_Columbia

And my FAVORITE challenge of all, Hodgkins. Just read this one to see why it's my favorite :)
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Hodgkins_v._Holder





Yup... Sure is too bad we're not actually DOING anything :(

N6ATF
05-16-2010, 5:08 PM
If you identify yourself as a criminal, and write from that POV ("disarm all my victims, please!"), then they'll definitely work on your behalf.

Has anyone actually tried this?

I have. But there is no way to test its effectiveness, as they unfailingly do evil anyway, as long as they are not put in prison and on death row.

Window_Seat
05-16-2010, 5:26 PM
Contacting elected officials is sort of like asking a dog or cat not to poop on one's lawn. They are going to bark/meow and do as they please, unless the owner/guardian does something to deter/prevent it. (ETA to add this): The Legislature is acting right now as if they are parentless, and they are doing anything they damn well please to destroy our Constitution. There is only one cure to this problem, and that is a cure that comes on election day.

HST, when someone comes along (like myself, with good intentions and reasons) and says "let's contact our legislators once/week or month or even once per day", most of the responses are going to be mainly to the effect of "don't bother, because of that off switch that they will just use. They will do nothing but shut us out and maybe send us a form letter saying "thank you for your comments, I support the right of duck hunters, but also stand for strong 'sensible' gun control, blah bs blah bs"...

Right now as for the court cases, see my signature below, and read up on McDonald. As for not doing anything progressive, again, read my signature below, and again, McDonald. If you still don't believe it that we are progressing toward getting back our rights, pick up a "California OLL Quick Reference Law Book" from CGF. They should have them. Not sure how much they cost right now, but they were put together very meticulously, and the information that it contains is phenomenal, and is extremely indicative of progressing toward getting us back our rights under the 2nd.

Maybe someone one of us can help get one in your hands.

(ETA to also add) We are still a minority in CA, but we are growing, and many "real people" who work are not as educated (I was before I knew how to spell Constitution & 2nd Amendment, and that came pretty late), but coming here and sticking around for 2+ years has given me information beyond anything I've learned in the past about 2A studies.

Finally, search search search.

I could go on forever, but stick around and you'll see the changes, and you'll know who is responsible for the changes.

Erik.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 5:45 PM
Really? Then you must not be paying attention.

First, we had Heller.

Next up is McDonald:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/McDonald_v._Chicago

Once McDonald is decided in our favor (which it probably will be), then local challenges can really start moving forward such as the final resolution to Nordyke (Doubly incorporates the 2A to California):
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Nordyke_v._King

Then we've also got one of my personal favorite cases to challenge the "safe" handgun roster, Pena:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid

There's also Sykes challenging our "may issue" CCW laws in CA:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Sykes_v._McGinness

Then there's a couple ones at the Federal level that us Californians will not only benefit from, but some of us have an active role in the challenges. Palmer would challenge the lack of reciprocity in CCW's as well as the inability for non-residents of an area to get firearms licenses and CCW's:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Palmer_v._District_of_Columbia

And my FAVORITE challenge of all, Hodgkins. Just read this one to see why it's my favorite :)
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Hodgkins_v._Holder



Yup... Sure is too bad we're not actually DOING anything :(

Re-read my post "besides letting the mighty NRA and other pro-gun organization [i.e. calguns] take on the laws AFTER they have been put in place in the courts with laws suits etc."

I am perfectly aware of all the hard work being down by various organizations (including this fine one), I am arguing that joe-blow citizen (myself included) could be doing more.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 5:56 PM
Contacting elected officials is sort of like asking a dog or cat not to poop on one's lawn. They are going to bark/meow and do as they please, unless the owner/guardian does something to deter/prevent it.

When someone comes along (like myself, with good intentions and reasons) and says "let's contact our legislators once/week or month or even once per day", most of the responses are going to be mainly to the effect of "don't bother, because of that off switch that they will just use. They will do nothing but shut us out and maybe send us a form letter saying "thank you for your comments, I support the right of duck hunters, but also stand for strong 'sensible' gun control, blah bs blah bs"...

Right now as for the court cases, see my signature below, and read up on McDonald. As for not doing anything progressive, again, read my signature below, and again, McDonald. If you still don't believe it that we are progressing toward getting back our rights, pick up a "California OLL Quick Reference Law Book" from CGF. They should have them. Not sure how much they cost right now, but they were put together very meticulously, and the information that it contains is phenomenal, and is extremely indicative of progressing toward getting us back our rights under the 2nd.

Maybe someone can help get one in your hands.

Finally, search search search.

I could go on forever, but stick around and you'll see the changes, and you'll know who is responsible for the changes.

Erik.


I am going to have to change my OP as I guess I am not getting my main point across: which is that citizens need to come together and individually, on their own, without an organization leading them, aiding them or funding them in any way write their representatives.

I'll simplify it:
Has there ever (in recent history) been a mass movement of INDIVIDUALS who have wrote their representatives at once in regards to expanding 2a rights?
two possible answers;
Yes- then my thought/idea has already been attempted and proven futile. End of topic/post
No- Perhaps we could do this; shoot maybe even do a "march" to the capitol to "hand deliver" our letters.

I feel this type of approach would gain public support as it would a rational move/effort and it could help to take away from the public bias that "pro-2a individuals" are "GUN-NUTS." This is where change occurs; gaining positive public opinion and therefore support.

CHS
05-16-2010, 6:00 PM
I am perfectly aware of all the hard work being down by various organizations (including this fine one), I am arguing that joe-blow citizen (myself included) could be doing more.

In a state like California, I really don't think we can, except for helping the NRA and donating to the CGF and CRPA.

We are just plain outnumbered here. Period.

Also, the republican party is next to useless in CA. They're either complete wackjobs that no one takes seriously, or they're anti-gun (see: our governor, Meg Whitman, etc).

AB962 is the PERFECT example. We raised absolute hell. We made so much noise the capital got extra phone lines just to handle our calls to NOT sign AB962.

Know what happens on February 1st, 2011? AB962 goes into effect because we were completely ignored.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 6:07 PM
In all honesty if we had a large enough movement to show that public opinion was greatly and vastly IN FAVOR of more 2a rights, isn't it the job of our representatives to *represent* us and pass laws (and the repeal of laws) that we overwhelmingly are in favor of? I haven't studied government too much in college, but I know that a democracy is a government run by its people and for its people. If our representatives do not represent the majority opinion of their people we are no longer a democracy, right?

berto
05-16-2010, 6:13 PM
The mail is opened, sorted, counted, and distributed to the appropriate person or recycling bin by an intern or low level staffer.

I call and email my representatives when appropriate to add one more tally to their count. Writing a pro-2A letter to my representatives is useless as they're the first to co-sponsor every anti-2A piece of legislative dreck that comes out of the fertile imaginations of LCAV/Brady etc.

If you feel the urge to write general correspondence have at it. I applaud your effort and thank you for it.

CHS
05-16-2010, 6:16 PM
isn't it the job of our representatives to *represent* us and pass laws (and the repeal of laws) that we overwhelmingly are in favor of?

Nope, it's the job of the politicians to get re-elected. That's pretty much it.

To do that they have to:

a.) Do what their party tells them to do
b.) Appeal to the largest number of their constituents

If you want to do "b" in California, it's really easy if you're anti-gun.

So, to be a politician in California, simply be anti-gun and you get re-elected. That's exactly how it works here.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 6:17 PM
1) We are just plain outnumbered here. Period.


2) AB962 is the PERFECT example. We raised absolute hell. We made so much noise the capital got extra phone lines just to handle our calls to NOT sign AB962.

Know what happens on February 1st, 2011? AB962 goes into effect because we were completely ignored.

1) Are you suggesting that the majority of CA citizens are anti-gun or lack an opinion like sheep? And therefore the majority of CA citizens are NOT pro 2a?
2) I am aware of this incident, as I personally made many calls, when I was able to get through at least; however maybe our true numbers were not seen by or maybe in ratio to the total CA population we were the minority.

What you write is true and shouldn't even have to be written due the constitutions' RKBA guarantee; however even after we get the supreme courts pro 2a ruling we are going to continue to face anti 2a legislation in the form of "restrictions" due to the supreme courts likely vague interpretation of 2a rights.
What I am getting at is: are you suggesting that it is POINTLESS for the average citizen to express their pro 2a opinions as it will just fall on deaf ears, and therefore more beneficial to just put our efforts towards supporting the organizations (NRA, Calguns, etc) to push for more 2a rights in the courts?

Window_Seat
05-16-2010, 6:20 PM
I am going to have to change my OP as I guess I am not getting my main point across: which is that citizens need to come together and individually, on their own, without an organization leading them, aiding them or funding them in any way write their representatives.

I'll simplify it:
Has there ever (in recent history) been a mass movement of INDIVIDUALS who have wrote their representatives at once in regards to expanding 2a rights?
two possible answers;
Yes- then my thought/idea has already been attempted and proven futile. End of topic/post
No- Perhaps we could do this; shoot maybe even do a "march" to the capitol to "hand deliver" our letters.

I feel this type of approach would gain public support as it would a rational move/effort and it could help to take away from the public bias that "pro-2a individuals" are "GUN-NUTS." This is where change occurs; gaining positive public opinion and therefore support.

I completely understand your point, and I asked for this to happen in this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=243251). Sometimes I still believe this could be an answer, but not everyone here believes it. Maybe you can have more of an effect on this method being started than I can (and get more replies too if you know what I mean). I'm all for it, but again, elected officials being paid for by a biased group (like Brady, LCAV, etc) opposite of our cause are going to shut us out no matter what, and they are likely going to look out of their windows of the Capitol and chuckle. Media is going to look only for the missing teeth, tank top hairy back fat crackazz redneck. Again, in CA, we are a minority, but we are growing into a major cause, and it's a matter of when things change, not if. We have to also be careful what we wish for.

Again, I'm all for it. Let's get a bunch of us together and at least try. After McDonald, you'll likely see something happen, even UOC events sanctioned by CGN/F.

Erik.

CHS
05-16-2010, 6:24 PM
1) Are you suggesting that the majority of CA citizens are anti-gun or lack an opinion like sheep? And therefore the majority of CA citizens are NOT pro 2a?


That is exactly what I'm saying.

What would lead you to believe otherwise?

California has the second-highest rate of gun ownership of all the states. However, that's still only something like 20% of the people here.

That makes 4 out of 5 Californians anti, or on the fence. Then you've got some of those 20% who vote anti-gun, even though they are pro-gun. These are people that will vote for people like Meg Whitman, or are democrats that vote their party line even though they themselves are pro-gun. The party will push an anti-gun agenda against their will.

These numbers are NOT in our favor.


What I am getting at is: are you suggesting that it is POINTLESS for the average citizen to express their pro 2a opinions as it will just fall on deaf ears, and therefore more beneficial to just put our efforts towards supporting the organizations (NRA, Calguns, etc) to push for more 2a rights in the courts?

Yeah, pretty much.

When an anti-gun bill comes up for debate, I typically do what the NRA and/or CGF and/or CRPA tells me I should do. At that time, I will hammer the phone lines of the politicians when needed.

But I'm not going to just call up my local reps office randomly and say "Hey, you should be pro-2A. Thanks", for a couple reasons. One, my local reps here in Orange County are for the most part already Pro-2A. Second, if they are anti, I won't change their mind. They need to feel pressure IN THE CAPITAL, not between bill times.

todd2968
05-16-2010, 6:26 PM
Wow, I see a lot of crying and whying but no support for what CR250Chevy is saying.
Stop your crying and saying things will never change, how many people that cry no CCW have actually applied ?
Write those letters and encourage others to write letters.

I'm military and I don't vote here, I contact my congressman all the time and I understand his position and he understands mine, and I'm 2000 miles away.

dark_ninja
05-16-2010, 6:34 PM
I've been on the site for a while now, and the vast majority of the time I have been in the background just absorbing and learning. I hear a lot of complaining (rightfully so) about our lack of firearm rights, however I do not hear a lot about getting up and channeling your complaints into progressive acts to expand our rights. The problem in this state is not CLEO or police taking away our rights, they are simply upholding an oath to uphold the law. The problem is in our legislation, We (normal joe-blow citizen) are not doing anything to stand up to our legislators (that we have put into office) besides letting the mighty NRA and other pro-gun organization take on the laws AFTER they have been put in place in the courts with laws suits etc.
I might be uninformed or unaware of previous attempts, but how about writing our legislators on a regular basis about our 2a concerns? I know if I were a legislator and I started to receive letters about citizen's concerns on gun rights before a bill came up, I might be much more willing to be pro 2a in my voting. If the entire pro-gun population and others joined in and wrote on a regular basis we might even see a shift towards the *writing and passing of pro 2a bills*- maybe I'm dreaming but I think at this point in the game it might be worth a shot. If we do not, and are not, express our concerns directly to those responsible for change, then we cannot expect or get mad when things in the legislation do not go our way.
I know that if members on this site and other sites were able to kick off a national "open-carry" movement that gained enough momentum to make national headlines, then a national (and statewide) movement to write our representatives is very possible.
Thoughts?

EDIT 051610 @ 1801 FOR EMPHASIS ON INDIVIDUALS OVER ORGANIZATIONS

I share your enthusiasm but do you think that these vultures with their overt draconian agendas care if they receive phone calls or letters regarding our 2A rights or any other concern/rights for that manner? Politicians are all the same,all they care about is power and furthering there agendas. Best thing to do is to get them out of office using the same system that gets them elected. Of course,IMHO,the whole system is corrupt,and by large they are not our representatives!

CHS
05-16-2010, 6:37 PM
Wow, I see a lot of crying and whying but no support for what CR250Chevy is saying.
Stop your crying and saying things will never change, how many people that cry no CCW have actually applied ?

Who said that things will never change?

I just said that this method being suggested is flawed. We're much better off working through the court system. Which is what we're doing.

So that things will change.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 6:40 PM
I completely understand your point, and I asked for this to happen in this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=243251). Sometimes I still believe this could be an answer, but not everyone here believes it. Maybe you can have more of an effect on this method being started than I can (and get more replies too if you know what I mean). I'm all for it, but again, elected officials being paid for by a biased group (like Brady, LCAV, etc) opposite of our cause are going to shut us out no matter what, and they are likely going to look out of their windows of the Capitol and chuckle. Media is going to look only for the missing teeth, tank top hairy back fat crackazz redneck. Again, in CA, we are a minority, but we are growing into a major cause, and it's a matter of when things change, not if. We have to also be careful what we wish for.

Again, I'm all for it. Let's get a bunch of us together and at least try. After McDonald, you'll likely see something happen, even UOC events sanctioned by CGN/F.

Erik.

Wow, I see a lot of crying and whying but no support for what CR250Chevy is saying.
Stop your crying and saying things will never change, how many people that cry no CCW have actually applied ?
Write those letters and encourage others to write letters.

I'm military and I don't vote here, I contact my congressman all the time and I understand his position and he understands mine, and I'm 2000 miles away.

Thanks for the support, I hope others who read this will chime in and at least say whether or not they would be willing to write letters if this grew into a possibility. Maybe someone of more computer knowledge could generate a simple yes/no poll for me to gauge Calgun members support.

And BDSMCHS I completely understand where you are coming from, I honesty do, and this is the exact mindset that most 2a's have (Window_Seat seems to have had this experience as well from members here) and one that I would like to see changed because we haven't tried this route before and I would honestly love to see a movement like this attempted. It would be democracy and free speech at is finest. If it succeeds perhaps California's (Americans for that matter) would gain a new found belief and trust in their "democratic" government as it would prove to all ends that the voice of each and every American does matter, and we do have power over our government as a democratic society should. On the other end; if the movement was to gain (and statistics proved it) support from the majority of citizens, but we, united, still failed; then I guess at that point we would see that our democracy is broken.

dark_ninja
05-16-2010, 6:42 PM
In all honesty if we had a large enough movement to show that public opinion was greatly and vastly IN FAVOR of more 2a rights, isn't it the job of our representatives to *represent* us and pass laws (and the repeal of laws) that we overwhelmingly are in favor of? I haven't studied government too much in college, but I know that a democracy is a government run by its people and for its people. If our representatives do not represent the majority opinion of their people we are no longer a democracy, right?

Perhaps you have your eyes closed,your ears covered!? The progressives are moving us toward socialism,communism,fascism... take your pick! Everything we learned in school is total BS! That's what they want us to think,that the government works for us!

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 6:51 PM
Perhaps you have your eyes closed,your ears covered!? The progressives are moving us toward socialism,communism,fascism... take your pick! Everything we learned in school is total BS! That's what they want us to think,that the government works for us!

Or perhaps someone could bring the truth to light?- you can sit back and say where the government is headed; however this world operates on proof through real-life examples.
- I'm not implying that your wrong, because I agree with you.
Look this post is about to go onto a very different topic, and I don't want to take it in the direction that it is headed, I would appreciate it if all following posts followed the OP topic.
So is anyone able to make a poll to gauge Calguns interest in taking up my idea to write our representatives?- that would be great even if you are not interested in the topic...

CHS
05-16-2010, 7:01 PM
And BDSMCHS I completely understand where you are coming from, I honesty do, and this is the exact mindset that most 2a's have (Window_Seat seems to have had this experience as well from members here) and one that I would like to see changed because we haven't tried this route before and I would honestly love to see a movement like this attempted. It would be democracy and free speech at is finest. If it succeeds perhaps California's (Americans for that matter) would gain a new found belief and trust in their "democratic" government as it would prove to all ends that the voice of each and every American does matter, and we do have power over our government as a democratic society should. On the other end; if the movement was to gain (and statistics proved it) support from the majority of citizens, but we, united, still failed; then I guess at that point we would see that our democracy is broken.

If you want that, then you will need to make it so that the politicians will feel pain when they vote for or support anti-2A laws.

The only way that will happen is if the public support is so large, it would hurt their chances of re-election.

So rather than try to appeal to the politicians, you have to change the PUBLICS mind. The politicians will just follow the public. They'll have to if they want to keep getting re-elected.

What would make a bigger impact would be a massive public PR campaign to educate the on-the-fencers and help them to become more pro-gun.

Window_Seat
05-16-2010, 7:02 PM
Let me add that if we all continue to bombard our Lawmakers with the change we are wanting for our cause, and they ultimately either finally give in, or are booted, we are going to get our way if we continue to go after them in their place of employment, as well as in the courts.

When we win cases, we will legitimately be able to say "Yes, we did something to get this done" if we do something instead of sitting on our cracks and "female dog"ing about how they don't give a defecation about us, blah blah blah.

So how bout a date to send letters? How bout the day after Memorial Day. We all (as Calguners, everyone of us on this forum) write and send to our lawmakers clean letters. Once per month isn't too much to ask, is it? If not for this organization, we wouldn't have gone this far with the bullet button, Nordyke, Sykes, et all, am I wrong? What will we lose?

Erik.

Gryff
05-16-2010, 7:10 PM
I know that if members on this site and other sites were able to kick off a national "open-carry" movement that gained enough momentum to make national headlines

And also got them an imminent law banning Open Carry.

Letter writing is important, but alone means nothing to the slimeballs in Sacramento. The letters need to be combined with victories in the legal arena that demonstrate to the idiots that a personal wish to change the foundation of America is not an entitlement to make it so.

Where a minority here. We need to fight smart.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 7:39 PM
So how bout a date to send letters? How bout the day after Memorial Day. We all (as Calguners, everyone of us on this forum) write and send to our lawmakers clean letters. Once per month isn't too much to ask, is it? If not for this organization, we wouldn't have gone this far with the bullet button, Nordyke, Sykes, et all, am I wrong? What will we lose?

Erik.

+1 completely agree; however I think it would be wise to wait until June (correct me if wrong on date) for the Supreme Courts pro ruling on McDonald. This would be excellent to include in our letter's argument(s) and would provide time to "spread the word" to others. I have to strongly recommend that the letters be written in professional manner without EMOTIONS and anger. Be sure to make well thought out logical arguments on various topics (such AWB, high-cap mags, CCW) and post if you have any more ideas.

cr250chevy
05-16-2010, 7:49 PM
Heres a good article just posted to start on:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=301813

a good line to quote:

"In 2009, the first full year the law was in effect, homicides in the city dropped to 143 from 186 in 2008. The 2009 total was the lowest since 1966."

By arguing pure statistics and logical beliefs/theories, pro-2a supporters can gain public support and maybe even that of our representatives who have been mislead by their or others logic. Biggest of all we will remove our emotions and argue facts in way that will strip the "GUN NUT" stereotype from the cause.

singleshotman
05-16-2010, 7:57 PM
I have said this before, we could at least TRY a Prop.The Prop system was invented because Southern Pacific OWNED sacremento in the 1890's, they used to drop FREE train tickets to SF on the desk of our corrupt lawmakers every friday night.I'm not kidding.WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO LOSE? Just money, were so far in the hole, i'm not sure we'll EVER get out of it.

wash
05-16-2010, 8:04 PM
The number 1 tool we have is lawsuits.

The next thing is taking the fight to the antis. That means we need to block new laws. I've helped with this by showing up and speaking in San Mateo county, Oakland and Emeryville.

Letters and phone calls can work too.

It's less likely that we'll be able to get support for favorable legislation, as of now it's not worth trying just like open carry was a nice thought but did more harm than good.

CGF is on top of it and "the right people" have the proper strategy.

Window_Seat
05-16-2010, 8:22 PM
One prop I would like to see for certain (I posted it on the OT forum) is one that makes the CA Legislature part time. CA is one of 10 states that are full time. We are one of 4 that has the most staff & the largest districts of the other 6 in our subcategory.

As for now, let's focus on no more than we can handle, and that is going after them in the court system, because it is working, and continuing to hammer our lawmakers in their offices & in the council/sub-committee/legislative chambers.

Otherwise, I'm in, the only thing we need is an official "Calguns Write to our Legislators day" approved by the top council. How 'bout it?

Erik.

Lone_Gunman
05-16-2010, 8:39 PM
some things an average Joe can do:
1. Commit to making a regular donation to the CalGuns Foundation. I don't care if it's $1.00 a month, every penny helps. Even better, set it up to be paid automatically through your online bill pay program.
2. Take a non-shooting friend shooting.
3. Get a shooting friend to join CalGuns.
4. Volunteer for a CalGuns booth at a gunshow.
5. Get ahold of the C3 leader in your area and see if they need help with anything.
6. Get some flowcharts from the C3 leader and take them to your local PD.

There is a LOT we average Joes can do

duldej
05-16-2010, 11:05 PM
part of the beauty of the 2a as far as me, myself, and i am concerned is box (a) in the 4473 form that states affirmatively that this gun is only for me and i'm going to demonstrate how to use it now but then the sale is over and it turns-out i only had to persuade one other person (the ffl) aside from myself what the 1a was all about.
gun control is not bad in and of itself. nope. it's only for me. you'll have to do like i do. that's the beauty in the demonstration clause in california gun legislature. i only have to be so convincing.
someone mentioned what can we do, but really what can i do might be a better question. i've only got one individual to work with.

by contrast the sheriff has got more than one individual to work with and hence the deputies sheriff but the sheriff taken in isolation is making the decisions and firsthand.
ccp section 262.6 is case in point.
fighting city hall, you've got tk discharge the sheriff by way of the coroner and the department will follow suit.
just like me, myself and i buys the gun, the solitary sheriff decides things, but i, for one, don't need deputies or a party to fight my battles for me just the cooperation more or less of other parties public and private when i want them to cooperate be that judg(es), etc..

Lone_Gunman
05-16-2010, 11:32 PM
^ Hunh?

CalNRA
05-17-2010, 12:08 AM
^ Hunh?

don't worry, it's not just you.

:popcorn:

bwiese
05-17-2010, 12:14 AM
Recipe for success...

1. Ensure you're an NRA member. Those numbers count in DC!

2. Ensure you join the New CRPA. Great new leadership, great lobbyist
putting a positive face on gunrights in CA. We need to get to 100K!!!

3. Join your local NRA Members' Council. This is where 'on the ground' local work springs from.

4. Frequently visit Calguns 2nd Amend forum and check http://www.calnra.com for latest news in CA gun laws/politics.

5. The Calguns Foundation tries (and has) done a lot with a little, and minimal overhead. Donations really don't hurt
us :) and are 501(c)(3) tax deductible.

GuyW
05-17-2010, 10:16 AM
Also, the republican party is next to useless in CA. They're either complete wackjobs that no one takes seriously....


The Bradys think you're a complete whack job for wanting guns...

.

N6ATF
05-17-2010, 10:19 AM
The Bradys say they think you're a complete whack job for wanting guns... but in reality are threatened as criminals are not safe around armed law-abiding citizens.

Fixed.

cr250chevy
05-17-2010, 11:58 AM
part of the beauty of the 2a as far as me, myself, and i am concerned is box (a) in the 4473 form that states affirmatively that this gun is only for me and i'm going to demonstrate how to use it now but then the sale is over and it turns-out i only had to persuade one other person (the ffl) aside from myself what the 1a was all about.
gun control is not bad in and of itself. nope. it's only for me. you'll have to do like i do. that's the beauty in the demonstration clause in california gun legislature. i only have to be so convincing.
someone mentioned what can we do, but really what can i do might be a better question. i've only got one individual to work with.

by contrast the sheriff has got more than one individual to work with and hence the deputies sheriff but the sheriff taken in isolation is making the decisions and firsthand.
ccp section 262.6 is case in point.
fighting city hall, you've got tk discharge the sheriff by way of the coroner and the department will follow suit.
just like me, myself and i buys the gun, the solitary sheriff decides things, but i, for one, don't need deputies or a party to fight my battles for me just the cooperation more or less of other parties public and private when i want them to cooperate be that judg(es), etc..

Wow; if this is what we have to work with, maybe writing our legislators would do more harm than good :rofl2:

Great articulation of your arguments duldej!

John Sukey
05-17-2010, 12:04 PM
The ONLY thing that gets the full attention of any politician is the possibility of being made redundant!

Vote the bastards out!

High_Side16
05-17-2010, 12:25 PM
Just an observation - Most of the country seems to be going in the direction of pro 2A rights with California being one of the exceptions. Thus, I believe that if you truly want to make an impact as an individual, you need to focus on winning at the poles in November. What everyone must realize is that many Californians do not have a strong opinion one way or the other on gun control. Thus, they pick political candidates on other beliefs. It just so happens that most of the Democratic Party candidates in office are anti-gun. The point is, we need to focus our attention on convincing the majority of voters in this state that the current administration is incompetent and that we need them gone. If we can turn the congressional tables, than the anti-gun non-sense will stop.

Bottom line is this; We need to vote and we need to convince others to vote. If not for for gun rights, than find another reason to convince them to vote for your selected candidate who is pro-gun.

turbogg
05-17-2010, 1:50 PM
Also, the republican party is next to useless in CA. They're either complete wackjobs that no one takes seriously, or they're anti-gun (see: our governor, Meg Whitman, etc).

Not to mention the republicans are in the minority in our state legislature. Lib dems rule the roost. And I doubt it's any surprise that the California legislature enjoys a pathetic ~ 9% approval rating!!! Yet somehow we can't seem to vote these sacks out of office!! What's up with that?

taperxz
05-17-2010, 2:26 PM
One thing we all gotta remember is that the state is illegally prohibiting us from our 2A rights!! Our politicians did this to us and the only way out is through court! We already have the right to keep and bear arms. Our politicians are violating our rights here and we need what we need to do to get them back. Calling an anti-2A politician for your rights is like calling the guy who robbed you and telling him to please bring your stuff back. JMO

Big E
05-17-2010, 2:51 PM
Very interesting Thread. A much more imposing and provative question and series of comments/thoughts than I was anticipating. Leaves me with wondering how many members to this forum are not members of the NRA, CRPA, or both.

Kyle1886
05-17-2010, 2:58 PM
I have a filing cabinet drawer full of form and canned letters from polticos on both sides of the aisle that I have accumulated over the past few years. Yes, I get discouraged. Like folks on this and other forums I'll continue to write and call in hopes that it may do a bit of good. I do believe that those efforts mostly fall on deaf ears though.

Respectfully
Kyle

socalblue
05-17-2010, 3:13 PM
One thing we all gotta remember is that the state is illegally prohibiting us from our 2A rights!! Our politicians did this to us and the only way out is through court! We already have the right to keep and bear arms. Our politicians are violating our rights here and we need what we need to do to get them back. Calling an anti-2A politician for your rights is like calling the guy who robbed you and telling him to please bring your stuff back. JMO

Technically not correct in CA until McDonald incorporates the 2A against the states.

We survive via the Federal Courts & win at the ballot box.

taperxz
05-17-2010, 3:33 PM
Technically not correct in CA until McDonald incorporates the 2A against the states.

We survive via the Federal Courts & win at the ballot box.


WRONG! We had the right at the inception of the 2A If has been slowly encroached on by some states as time has passed. You only think what you said because the politicians want you to believe this. Remember the politicians want you to believe that they know what is best for you.

Big E
05-17-2010, 3:38 PM
Very interesting Thread. A much more imposing and provative question and series of comments/thoughts than I was anticipating. Leaves me with wondering how many members to this forum are not members of the NRA, CRPA, or both.

Okay, now I'm back and can continue my thought. Where did I go? To be become a member of both the NRA and CPRA. I've stalled long enough to save money during this recession, but if I'm going to post here I should be a person of action as well as words.

So cr250chevy and others, I like what you have to say and now I'll add the following: When signing up for CRPA, I observed several items directing me on where letters and correspondences should be directed in regards to specific legislations. I'll start there. So thank you for the call to action.

cr250chevy
05-17-2010, 7:02 PM
I have a filing cabinet drawer full of form and canned letters from polticos on both sides of the aisle that I have accumulated over the past few years. Yes, I get discouraged. Like folks on this and other forums I'll continue to write and call in hopes that it may do a bit of good. I do believe that those efforts mostly fall on deaf ears though.

Respectfully
Kyle

See bold above: and this is the exact reason why I think a mass letter writing day would be beneficial. If they (representatives) only receive one letter here and then another there, I don't blame them for not listening. They were/are elected to represent the majority, not the minority; If a mass of pro 2a letters from joe-blow citizens were to fill their mailboxes and email addresses, I think we would catch their attention and it WOULD put pressure on them knowing that citizens are concerned and becoming more proactive in support of their 2a rights--> thus placing the possibility on them that they'll get voted out if they do not vote pro 2a.

Lets face it: McDonald is NOT going to grant us all our 2a dreams, The fight will continue. That is were individual citizens need to come into play are start expressing their 2a beliefs, because right now we aren't. And as mentioned by others in this topic, we (those who care and are active in promoting 2a rights) are the minority; however I believe that the majority of the population is in fact pro 2a however they just go about their everyday lives and are not aware/care enough/ guided/ motivated to actively express their views. If we were to pull off a statewide (maybe even national) movement to write our legislators we would get their attention. Think about all the attention gained by a *small* portion of pro 2a's Open Carrying, image all of them plus all the pro 2a people who did not participate in O.C. because of fear/other reasons. I think we could have ahuge turn out and I think we would get the politicians attention and the medias.
***I am not advocating lowering our contributions/support of our organizations (NRA/Calguns), I am simply asking to "step up" our efforts with a 5 minute letter.***

cr250chevy
05-17-2010, 7:16 PM
Technically not correct in CA until McDonald incorporates the 2A against the states.

We survive via the Federal Courts & win at the ballot box.

no we wont, because we haven't done so yet.

cr250chevy
05-17-2010, 7:19 PM
So cr250chevy and others, I like what you have to say and now I'll add the following: When signing up for CRPA, I observed several items directing me on where letters and correspondences should be directed in regards to specific legislations. I'll start there. So thank you for the call to action.


Sounds like the framework for who and where we need to write these letters is already developed. Now enough talk, how about it Calgunners? is this something we can do?