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gose
03-12-2006, 11:53 PM
Does anyone know if I have to go through an FFL to import gun parts like slides, barrels, magazines etc, or can anyone apply for the import papers with ATF?

Josh
03-13-2006, 12:38 AM
Does anyone know if I have to go through an FFL to import gun parts like slides, barrels, magazines etc, or can anyone apply for the import papers with ATF?

As long as the amount is under $100 you are free to do as you please without notifying anyone, over that amount you are supposed to fill out forms and get approval.

However I dont have the forms or links to them off hand.

kick Z tail out
03-13-2006, 4:51 AM
I was told you could buy everything except for the lower receivers through catalogs.... With no FFL...

PanzerAce
03-13-2006, 6:28 AM
I was told you could buy everything except for the lower receivers through catalogs.... With no FFL...

I think he means from over seas...

CowtownBallin
03-13-2006, 11:08 AM
Good question. I just picked up an AK lower, and I'm going back to the former Yugoslav republic of Serbia, so I could probably score some stuff, if only I could bring it back :D Does customs frown upon magazines and barrels? :eek:

CalExile
03-13-2006, 11:31 AM
Barrels are no longer importable, just like receivers. You can import all parts minus barrels and receivers. ATF recently sent a letter to importers...Copy of letter...scroll down a few posts:

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=592&PN=1

This barrel import ban was apparently not enforced until recently, no more form 6's being approved by ATF according to multiple importers.

bwiese
03-13-2006, 11:39 AM
This barrel import ban was apparently not enforced until recently, no more form 6's being approved by ATF according to multiple importers.

I had heard somewhere this was being re-reviewed as imported barrels could well be used for legit replacement parts and/or for making 922(r)-compliant builds, so there was indeed a legitimate use/need for these.

Any more news on this??

gose
03-13-2006, 12:02 PM
I've wondered the same thing. Josh is exactly right: anything over $100 has to go through ATF (form 6) and customs. The thing that is not clear from the ATF website is whether this applies to the whole order, or to the aggregate: if I order 10 magazines, each $11, and the total with shipping and handling and VAT comes to $150, is it over or under $100? If I order a match weight which costs $90, and with VAT and shipping and handling it adds up to $120, is it over or under $120?

The instructions on the ATF form 6 are very very unclear on what happens with things that are not firearms but accessories and parts for firearms, whether the items can be shipped to anyone, or whether they have to go through a FFL / licensed importer. Examples include match weights, barrels, slides. As we discussed once, I've been dreaming of importing the .45ACP -> 9mm conversion kit for my USP Elite some time from Germany; I would probably combine that with a trip to Germany to visit the family.

I think a phone call or letter to the ATF would be required to clarify.

It's per shipment, so if you order 10 mags at $11 a piece, you need a permit. I'm pretty sure it's the value of the shipment, so shipping is not included.

What Im not sure of is if I need to go through a FFL or not...

gose
03-13-2006, 12:44 PM
Barrels are no longer importable, just like receivers. You can import all parts minus barrels and receivers. ATF recently sent a letter to importers...Copy of letter...scroll down a few posts:

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=592&PN=1

This barrel import ban was apparently not enforced until recently, no more form 6's being approved by ATF according to multiple importers.

You can't import barrels for firearms not allowed for importation. It's still perfectly ok to import barrels for firearms that can be imported assembled. So handgun barrels or barrels for sporting or hunting weapons are still ok for importation

CalExile
03-13-2006, 2:55 PM
You can't import barrels for firearms not allowed for importation. It's still perfectly ok to import barrels for firearms that can be imported assembled. So handgun barrels or barrels for sporting or hunting weapons are still ok for importation

I hadn't heard that, it would be a small bit of good news.

bridgeport
03-13-2006, 6:07 PM
Bill is correct, the barrel import ban is under review at this time. Apparently
it has been discovered that there are actually practical reasons for the importation of say AK barrels / spare parts sets, etc. Until all is figured out
there will be no enforcement as it has been.

grammaton76
03-13-2006, 6:17 PM
Bill is correct, the barrel import ban is under review at this time. Apparently
it has been discovered that there are actually practical reasons for the importation of say AK barrels / spare parts sets, etc. Until all is figured out
there will be no enforcement as it has been.

Excellent. Any idea what the practical reasons were? Ok, let me rephrase that.

Any idea what the BATF guys decided was actually a practical reason?

CalExile
03-13-2006, 6:45 PM
Excellent. Any idea what the practical reasons were? Ok, let me rephrase that.

Any idea what the BATF guys decided was actually a practical reason?

A friend of mine owns a gun store in VA, and went to an importer's conference with ATF a few months ago. The dirt was the ATF was not at all happy with the cottage home gun building industry that has sprang up using imported parts kits (922r compliant of course) and this was their fix. My buddy left that meeting very skepticle about the legality of home kit gun builders. Another poorly defined issue. Half the crowd thinks home gun building using imported parts is perfectly legal if one follows 922r and the other half thinks it might be against the rules but is doing it anyway because of a lack of enforcemment.

kick Z tail out
03-13-2006, 10:09 PM
I think he means from over seas...
True? Guys?

Please don't say that I won't be able to order the full kit to finish my ARs... :(

Josh
03-13-2006, 10:19 PM
True? Guys?

Please don't say that I won't be able to order the full kit to finish my ARs... :(

import usually means from another country as the federal gov isnt supposed to meddle with interstate commerce.

kick Z tail out
03-13-2006, 10:26 PM
import usually means from another country as the federal gov isnt supposed to meddle with interstate commerce.
Okay, I was hoping that truely was what this was talking about. Although I have heard the use of the word 'import' plenty of times in regard to things coming into the state.

CalExile
03-14-2006, 3:21 AM
I don't think anyone knows what is "true" at this point regarding imports, other than the guys getting new form 6's denied.

http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22573&highlight=barrel+ban

The above link will give you some insight. The majority seem to believe:

-ATF is serious about the ban...for now.
-No more kits with receivers or barrels are coming in.
-Importers rushed to bring in as many kits as they could before the deadline, now we have a flooded market at least in the short term.
-Building a semi-auto 922r compliant gun is legal (who knows about Cal).

Mesa Tactical
03-14-2006, 3:52 AM
Barrels are no longer importable, just like receivers. You can import all parts minus barrels and receivers. ATF recently sent a letter to importers...Copy of letter...scroll down a few posts:

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=592&PN=1

This barrel import ban was apparently not enforced until recently, no more form 6's being approved by ATF according to multiple importers.

Thank goodness the Administration is pro gun rights, at least that's what people tell me.

kick Z tail out
03-14-2006, 4:34 AM
All I care right now is if I can buy the finish kit from Model 1 Sales (in Texas) and have in shipped here to California for my AR build! :)

gose
03-17-2006, 12:59 PM
Update: I received a phone message back from a field inspector from the ATF San Francisco field office.

She mostly confirmed what is obvious: firearms have to go through an FFL. Things that are not firearms and are under $100 don't need a form 6. This leaves open a huge set of questions. For the question of whether a barrel, receiver or cylinder is considered a firearm, and whether something is a sporting arm or not, she referred me to the FTB, the "Firearms Technology Bureau" (or Branch). I haven't had time to call them yet.

I also have left messages at the ATF central firearms hotline, and at the FTB. No answers yet.

Here is my current set of theories regarding sporting (target shooting) handguns: (so I'm deliberately ignoring ammo and military/tactical style stuff and rifles)

Whole firearms need to have a form 6 and go through an FFL.
Barrels, receivers and cylinders are treated as if they were firearms and need to go through an FFL - BUT THIS IS NOT CLEAR YET, WAIT FOR CONFIRMATION FROM THE ATF BEFORE YOU BELIEVE THIS.
Under $100 per shipment doesn't require a form 6.
I don't know what happens for things that are not whole firearms, barrels, receivers and cylinders, but are over $100. For example, an H&K match weight is about $150 or $200, so it is in this unknown zone.


I'll post further updates as I receiver more callbacks. I've been very busy in the office, so I've not been following up quickly.

Barrels, frames, cylinders, receivers always requires a permit.
Shipments with gun parts with a total value over $100 requires a permit, be it one part or several in the shipment. From the Ref Guide (page 106):
"Minor components and parts except barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms, when the total value does not exceed $100 wholesale in any single transaction."

Example of gun parts are: triggers, sears, hammers, safeties, magazines, stocks, firing pins, sights etc

However, if you are in no rush, applying for an import permit doesn't hurt. It takes ~10 weeks and except the postage it doesn't cost anything! Better safe than sorry. Worst case that can happen if you apply for a permit for something that doesn't need a permit is that the ATF will tell you just that...

Firearms definitely needs a form 6 and a FFL and so do frames and receivers.

Slides, barrels, magazines etc are only gun parts and should only require a form 6.
Page 162 in the ATF Ref Guide supports this:
"A nonlicensee may obtain a permit to import sporting ammunition for personal use excluding armor piercing handgun ammunition, or tracer or incendiary ammunition) or firearm parts (other than frames or receivers) without engaging the services of a Federal firearms licensee."

Hope that answers your questions :)

Edit: Notice that they use the word "transaction". Ordering gun parts with a total value of over $100 and having them shipped in two different shipments would be circumventing the law!
Edit 2: Heh, looks like it was I who started the thread, so I guess I now have my answers :)

gose
03-17-2006, 4:47 PM
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/p53004.pdf

Enjoy! (all 243 pages of it ;))