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View Full Version : M14 legal?


JimWest
05-15-2010, 6:00 PM
Would a standard configuration (USGI) m14 be illegal? Is 10 round detachable mag acceptable? Tell me everything I need to know about owning one of these legally (semi-auto only version, of course).

Tumerboy
05-15-2010, 6:03 PM
M14 is auto right?
M1a is not, and is def legal.

reidnez
05-15-2010, 6:07 PM
The M1A is legal in standard configuration, except for the flash hider (if you want a GI flash hider you must install a bullet button). Those sold in CA have a muzzle brake installed instead, so they can be used without a BB.

If you want to do anything silly like add a pistol grip stock or VFG, you will need a bullet button. Leave it stock and you're good.

Fot
05-15-2010, 6:09 PM
Detachable mags are fine on any rifle not on the list and doesn't have any evil features..

Flash Suppressor/ Flash hider

Forward Pistol Grip

Pistol Grip/Thumbhole Stock

Collapsible Stock

or Grenade launcher

Double check the M1A doesn't have a flash hider as many had those..

JimWest
05-15-2010, 6:59 PM
Thanks for the info, all. And where can you get quality 10 rnd mags for these rifles?

GunDog
05-15-2010, 7:20 PM
Thanks for the info, all. And where can you get quality 10 rnd mags for these rifles?

Springfield Armory, Inc. factory 10 rnd mags for the M1A are available from Cheaper than Dirt and other vendors.

Requiem
05-15-2010, 7:56 PM
Springfield Armory, Inc. factory 10 rnd mags for the M1A are available from Cheaper than Dirt and other vendors.

CMI (The current govt. m14 mag contractor) makes 10 rounders too IIRC, and cheaper than SAI. Check 44mag.com

Gryff
05-15-2010, 8:04 PM
The M1A is legal in standard configuration, except for the flash hider (if you want a GI flash hider you must install a bullet button). Those sold in CA have a muzzle brake installed instead, so they can be used without a BB.

If you want to do anything silly like add a pistol grip stock or VFG, you will need a bullet button. Leave it stock and you're good.

+1

If you have an older one that has the flash hider, Springfield Armory sells the muzzle break conversion for a little less than $100.

tygerpaw
05-15-2010, 8:29 PM
USGI M14's (Sprinfield Armory [government, not SA,Inc.], Winchester, TRW, H&R), even in semi-auto configuration, are classified as machine guns by the ATF, and not legal for normal consumption. Only commercially manufactured M14 type rifles are legal for civilian purchase (SA, Inc., Armscorp, Smith Enterprises, Entreprise Arms, LRB, Norinco, Polytech, Federal Ordnance, Fulton Armory, maybe some others....)

reidnez
05-15-2010, 8:39 PM
USGI M14's (Sprinfield Armory [government, not SA,Inc.], Winchester, TRW, H&R), even in semi-auto configuration, are classified as machine guns by the ATF, and not legal for normal consumption. Only commercially manufactured M14 type rifles are legal for civilian purchase (SA, Inc., Armscorp, Smith Enterprises, Entreprise Arms, LRB, Norinco, Polytech, Federal Ordnance, Fulton Armory, maybe some others....)

That's interesting, I did not realize that. I don't know how a civilian would get his hands on one, anyway. I'm guessing they are all either warehoused or have been sold/given to foreign countries. IIRC, almost all military M14's were converted to semi-auto only, but that could be easily reversible, thus the ATF ruling...?

tygerpaw
05-15-2010, 10:03 PM
Everything you could ever want to know about the M-14:
http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/welcome.html

Cobrafreak
05-15-2010, 10:06 PM
All guns are legal. It's the politicians and governments that are illegal. But seriously, M1A is a great weapon and legal to own. I like the 18" barrel the best.

JimWest
05-15-2010, 10:49 PM
Yes, it's an utter shame but I believe it was Clinton that ordered the last massive destruction of old stock M1as. Some old parts are still floating around. But the LRB receiver is the most desirable mil spec forged receiver on the market. Very pricey however.
I'll call 44mag.com for those 10 rounders though. Thanks for the info.

Now I'll head off to 2nd Amen and Politics forum to b*&tch and whine about living in this insane state.

Suvorov
05-16-2010, 5:45 AM
M14 is auto right?
M1a is not, and is def legal.

Yes, it's an utter shame but I believe it was Clinton that ordered the last massive destruction of old stock M1as.

Just a little bit on semantics here.

The M14 was the military rifle issued and still issued. It was originally select fire, but most were converted to be semi-auto only. Regardless, the 1968 gun control laws ruled these as "Machine Guns" and prohibited them going to civilian circles. There are VERY FEW real M14s in civilian hands.

The M1A is Springfield Incs (not the original Springfield Armory but a company that bought the name after the government run arsenal shut down) commercial version of the M14. The receiver on these is built to preclude the ability to add select fire parts.

There are also a lot of other commercial "M14s" on the market - Fulton, Smith, Polytech, LRB. These are similar to the M1A in concept and go by various "M14" monikers.

It is not incorrect to call all of these rifles M14 pattern rifles or just "M14s" in much the same way people casually refer to their Bushmaster XM15 as an "AR15."

Blacktail 8541
05-16-2010, 6:22 AM
Just a little bit on semantics here.

The M14 was the military rifle issued and still issued. It was originally select fire, but most were converted to be semi-auto only. Regardless, the 1968 gun control laws ruled these as "Machine Guns" and prohibited them going to civilian circles. There are VERY FEW real M14s in civilian hands.

The M1A is Springfield Incs (not the original Springfield Armory but a company that bought the name after the government run arsenal shut down) commercial version of the M14. The receiver on these is built to preclude the ability to add select fire parts.

There are also a lot of other commercial "M14s" on the market - Fulton, Smith, Polytech, LRB. These are similar to the M1A in concept and go by various "M14" monikers.

It is not incorrect to call all of these rifles M14 pattern rifles or just "M14s" in much the same way people casually refer to their Bushmaster XM15 as an "AR15."

CORRECT AND THANK YOU ^^^^^ as not all civillian models are M1a designation.
The M1a is a Springfield armory [civillain] designation.

JimWest
05-16-2010, 6:23 AM
Just a little bit on semantics here...

It is not incorrect to call all of these rifles M14 pattern rifles or just "M14s" in much the same way people casually refer to their Bushmaster XM15 as an "AR15."

That's it. Although I'm not sure why most refer to the commercial build semiautos still as M14s. All I know is if you got an AR and an M14 that's all 'ya need for fun and SHingTF. Tons of info on the M14TFL site if anyone wants to neglect their family and destroy their bank account further. ;)

Blacktail 8541
05-16-2010, 6:25 AM
That's it. Although I'm not sure why most refer to the commercial build semiautos still as M14s. All I know is if you got an AR and an M14 that's all 'ya need for fun and SHingTF. Tons of info on the M14TFL site if anyone wants to neglect their family and destroy their bank account further. ;)

This is so true.

CHS
05-16-2010, 8:25 AM
That's interesting, I did not realize that. I don't know how a civilian would get his hands on one, anyway. I'm guessing they are all either warehoused or have been sold/given to foreign countries. IIRC, almost all military M14's were converted to semi-auto only, but that could be easily reversible, thus the ATF ruling...?

Remember, most if not all military M14's that have been converted to Semi-auto only were converted by simply removing the full-auto extra bits.

They are still full-auto guns.

It's the same as the military does with some of their M16 SPR's/DMR's. They remove the auto-sear from the receiver to make it semi-auto. But they're still an M16.

IRONWILL
05-16-2010, 10:35 AM
Remember, most if not all military M14's that have been converted to Semi-auto only were converted by simply removing the full-auto extra bits.

They are still full-auto guns.

It's the same as the military does with some of their M16 SPR's/DMR's. They remove the auto-sear from the receiver to make it semi-auto. But they're still an M16.

don't all m14 in service today still have there full auto bits, is it just the issue of the full key / switch that you use for select fire thats the difference

Suvorov
05-16-2010, 11:21 AM
That's it. Although I'm not sure why most refer to the commercial build semiautos still as M14s. All I know is if you got an AR and an M14 that's all 'ya need for fun and SHingTF. Tons of info on the M14TFL site if anyone wants to neglect their family and destroy their bank account further. ;)

Yep, The Firing Line Forum is a great place and the best single point for M14 info there probably is. If you are going to go the way of the M14, I'd also suggest Scott Duff's M14 Owners Manual which will give you a lot of insight into the platform, history, upkeep, and accurizing. Between the Forum and the Duff book, I have been able to turn my Socom16 into a good and CONSISTANT 2-3 MOA gun where before it was a 5-6 MOA gun.

As you have already realized, the only real limit to the M14 platform is money :(

Suvorov
05-16-2010, 11:24 AM
don't all m14 in service today still have there full auto bits, is it just the issue of the full key / switch that you use for select fire thats the difference

I know on the match guns (M14NM, M21, M25), the full auto parts may have been removed and the selector bar is welded. Not exactly sure how the rack grade models have been modified, as I have no experience with them.

Interestingly enough (sad and ironic actually), the M14 was in part designed to be converted to semi-auto only, so that M14s could be provided to civilians through the DCM (now the CMP). :(

Gryff
05-16-2010, 11:29 AM
So decommissioned M14s were never sold through CMP?

Suvorov
05-16-2010, 11:38 AM
So decommissioned M14s were never sold through CMP?

No sir, but from what I remember reading, some national match guns were transferred through the DCM to civilians in the mid 1960s. I think the guns were transferred to teams or clubs but eventually found their way into private hands. After 1968 though, this was no longer possible. :(

evolixsurf
05-16-2010, 11:40 AM
i have had EXCELLENT results with the bushmaster 10 and 5 rounders. throw a magpul follower in them and you have a very high quality mag.

CHS
05-16-2010, 11:43 AM
Interestingly enough (sad and ironic actually), the M14 was in part designed to be converted to semi-auto only, so that M14s could be provided to civilians through the DCM (now the CMP). :(

From what I understand, the difference between a F/A M14 receiver and a S/A M1A/M14 receiver is that you must REMOVE material to make a F/A into a S/A permanently.

This is much easier and radically different from say, an M16 receiver which needs material ADDED to it to become permanently S/A.

CHS
05-16-2010, 11:43 AM
i have had EXCELLENT results with the bushmaster 10 and 5 rounders. throw a magpul follower in them and you have a very high quality mag.

Ummm, you're talking about AR mags.

The M14 is not an AR.

Suvorov
05-16-2010, 12:06 PM
From what I understand, the difference between a F/A M14 receiver and a S/A M1A/M14 receiver is that you must REMOVE material to make a F/A into a S/A permanently.

This is much easier and radically different from say, an M16 receiver which needs material ADDED to it to become permanently S/A.

Not sure of all the extra goodies that go into a select fire M14. I seem to recall that the receiver was different to allow for the "transfer bar."

From Wiki - Public Domain
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/M1A_Select_Fire_Receiver.JPG

motorhead
05-16-2010, 12:08 PM
atf-once an mg, always an mg. semi conversion of a once f/a reciever is verboten.