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View Full Version : shotguns with pistol grip


DarkKro
05-15-2010, 5:50 PM
Just wondering, do i need to be 21 to install a pistol grip stock and fore end to my shotgun?

asme
05-15-2010, 6:11 PM
No, as long as you keep it in legal configuration as per the flowchart or some similar resource.

spgripside
05-15-2010, 6:21 PM
Flowchart here (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf).

bwiese
05-15-2010, 6:34 PM
Just wondering, do i need to be 21 to install a pistol grip stock and fore end to my shotgun?

No, but you'd need to be 21 to buy a pg-only shotgun from an FFL.

A Mossy 500 "Cruiser" is not a shotgun by GCA '68 definition since it's not intended to be fired from the shoulder.

18-to-21 yr olds can only buy exempt firearms from FFLs, which includes rifles and shotguns, but does not include handguns nor other long guns.

dantodd
05-15-2010, 9:21 PM
Just wondering, do i need to be 21 to install a pistol grip stock and fore end to my shotgun?

Just to be perfectly clear you are ADDING a pistol grip and not replacing the existing shoulder stock with a pistol grip, right?

DarkKro
05-16-2010, 9:39 AM
I have a Remington 870 and want to add the ATI folding stock with pistol grip fore end.

JDoe
05-16-2010, 10:27 AM
I have a Remington 870 and want to add the ATI folding stock with pistol grip fore end.

Have a look a the Calguns CA Shotgun AW ID Flowchart (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf)

spgripside
05-16-2010, 10:48 AM
I have a Remington 870 and want to add the ATI folding stock with pistol grip fore end.

It seems as long as it is 26" or more with the stock folded you are good to go.

Sean

bohoki
05-16-2010, 11:18 AM
its not illegal to buy one in that configuration its only illegal for the ffl to transfer it

Norse_Armory
05-16-2010, 12:04 PM
its not illegal to buy one in that configuration its only illegal for the ffl to transfer it

Say what? We currently have three different pistol gripped shotguns for sale, all three started life as non-pistol gripped shotguns, two of them are pistol grip ONLY pump shotguns, and the other is a modified Saiga-12. We've sold 5? 6? maybe of the Hawk 982's with pistol grips, only.

bwiese
05-16-2010, 12:38 PM
Say what? We currently have three different pistol gripped shotguns for sale, all three started life as non-pistol gripped shotguns, two of them are pistol grip ONLY pump shotguns, and the other is a modified Saiga-12. We've sold 5? 6? maybe of the Hawk 982's with pistol grips, only.

He's trying to say that an FFL can't sell a PG-only shotgun to an under-21yr old (unless there's at least a buttstock in the box).

However, nothing in the law prevents an 18-to-21yr old from removing the buttstock and adding a pistol grip to a shotgun to render it into "Cruiser" configuraition.

SJgunguy24
05-16-2010, 12:47 PM
He's trying to say that an FFL can't sell a PG-only shotgun to an under-21yr old (unless there's at least a buttstock in the box).

However, nothing in the law prevents an 18-to-21yr old from removing the buttstock and adding a pistol grip to a shotgun to render it into "Cruiser" configuraition.

Kinda like the single shot pistol. Whatever the owner does after that gun leaves the door is his/her buisness.

CHS
05-16-2010, 1:46 PM
Kinda like the single shot pistol. Whatever the owner does after that gun leaves the door is his/her buisness.

And more importantly, a "cruiser" from the factory IS NOT a shotgun. It's a pistol grip-only firearm that shoots fixed shotgun ammunition.

A shotgun has a shoulder stock and is designed to be fired from the shoulder.

This is why a cruiser cannot be sold to someone under 21. Per federal law you must be 21 to purchase a firearm. There is an exemption in the law for rifles and shotguns ONLY, allowing them to be transferred to someone between 18 and 21.

When someone buys a regular shotgun and converts it into "cruiser" configuration, it's still a shotgun.

If you were to cut down a true "cruiser" to under 26", you would be manufacturing an AOW.

If you were to cut down a "cruiser" made from a shotgun, or a regular shotgun to under 26", you would be manufacturing an SBS.

unusedusername
05-16-2010, 2:33 PM
If you were to cut down a "cruiser" made from a shotgun, or a regular shotgun to under 26", you would be manufacturing an SBR SBS.

I'm nitpicky but meh.

Table Rock Arms
05-16-2010, 2:33 PM
What about transporting a shotgun in cruiser configuration. Locked up like a pistol, or anyway you like as long as its unloaded?

Cokebottle
05-16-2010, 3:00 PM
What about transporting a shotgun in cruiser configuration. Locked up like a pistol, or anyway you like as long as its unloaded?
For transportation purposes, a cruiser is the same as a long gun.

The statute addresses guns "capable of being concealed on the person"

CHS
05-16-2010, 3:39 PM
I'm nitpicky but meh.

I swear, I'm physically incapable of typing out SBS.. I have no idea why. It ALWAYS comes out SBR.

Brain to finger interface no worky...

bohoki
05-16-2010, 5:03 PM
Say what? We currently have three different pistol gripped shotguns for sale, all three started life as non-pistol gripped shotguns, two of them are pistol grip ONLY pump shotguns, and the other is a modified Saiga-12. We've sold 5? 6? maybe of the Hawk 982's with pistol grips, only.

sorry i was refering "to" 18 year olds

gunsmith
05-16-2010, 5:35 PM
I have a Remington 870 and want to add the ATI folding stock with pistol grip fore end.

don't do it, its cumbersome & doesn't make it lighter or easier to shoot. ( I think it makes it more difficult to shoot)
imho you would get much better usage out of a double barrel coach gun ( Stoeger )
easy to conceal in your car/home easy to load ( concealing illegal if loaded ) not scary looking thus less attention from LE but truly scary for anyone on the business end.

Don't get me wrong, I love all guns but accurate comfortable shooting means you're practicing more often.

dirtyJ
05-16-2010, 5:52 PM
He's trying to say that an FFL can't sell a PG-only shotgun to an under-21yr old (unless there's at least a buttstock in the box).

However, nothing in the law prevents an 18-to-21yr old from removing the buttstock and adding a pistol grip to a shotgun to render it into "Cruiser" configuraition.

Ahh, yes then. We always include the butt stock though :).

CHS
05-16-2010, 6:03 PM
Ahh, yes then. We always include the butt stock though :).

Was FET paid as a shotgun? Was the shotgun delivered from the factory with the buttstock, or just included in the box? Or is it just something you give them? Did you actually install the buttstock to make the PGO-gun into a shotgun? Are you an 01 FFL or an 07? Because if you're not an 07, you are manufacturing shotguns from PGO-firearms, and FET is due. Plus, it would be a violation of your DEALERS license, as opposed to having a manufacturers license.

redneckshootist
05-16-2010, 6:13 PM
Was FET paid as a shotgun? Was the shotgun delivered from the factory with the buttstock, or just included in the box? Or is it just something you give them? Did you actually install the buttstock to make the PGO-gun into a shotgun? Are you an 01 FFL or an 07? Because if you're not an 07, you are manufacturing shotguns from PGO-firearms, and FET is due. Plus, it would be a violation of your DEALERS license, as opposed to having a manufacturers license.

the shotguns come in with buttstock installed. I include pistol grip with shotgun or install it for the customer. I also do siaga 12 pistol grip conversions. Yes I am an 07 we know what we are doing. FET deos get paid.

dirtyJ
05-16-2010, 6:30 PM
Was FET paid as a shotgun? Was the shotgun delivered from the factory with the buttstock, or just included in the box? Or is it just something you give them? Did you actually install the buttstock to make the PGO-gun into a shotgun? Are you an 01 FFL or an 07? Because if you're not an 07, you are manufacturing shotguns from PGO-firearms, and FET is due. Plus, it would be a violation of your DEALERS license, as opposed to having a manufacturers license.

Wow, relax a bit man, you don't need to come at me like I'm an idiot. If you read my past history of posts in the last few months, you would see that I work at Norse Armory, which is an 07. Do you really think red would let me jeopardize his business with something simple like that?

CHS
05-16-2010, 7:04 PM
Wow, relax a bit man, you don't need to come at me like I'm an idiot. If you read my past history of posts in the last few months, you would see that I work at Norse Armory, which is an 07. Do you really think red would let me jeopardize his business with something simple like that?

Well when you say something so simplistic like "we just include a buttstock", that sounds pretty ignorant of the laws.

Just having a buttstock in the box doesn't make a PGO gun a shotgun or rifle :)

putput
05-17-2010, 6:34 AM
I gotta go with the gunsmith here. Those things look way cool but they suck to shoot with in either config. The plastic where it touches your cheek will keep you from shooting correctly. Don't do it. Try ANYTHING else.

don't do it, its cumbersome & doesn't make it lighter or easier to shoot. ( I think it makes it more difficult to shoot)
imho you would get much better usage out of a double barrel coach gun ( Stoeger )
easy to conceal in your car/home easy to load ( concealing illegal if loaded ) not scary looking thus less attention from LE but truly scary for anyone on the business end.

Don't get me wrong, I love all guns but accurate comfortable shooting means you're practicing more often.