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emahan
03-12-2006, 12:04 PM
The DOJ roster of named AR assault rifles lists the American Spirit USA model. I have the opportunity to purchase an American Spirit Arms ASA15 model from out of state. Would this receiver be considered "off-list" since it is not specfically listed on the roster? The guy would give me a good price and I'd just install a fixed 10-rd magazine. What does everybody think? Any help is appreciated. Thanks-

bwiese
03-12-2006, 12:26 PM
Yup, it's off-list. It's OK.

This is one of the ones the DOJ missed back in 2000: I know, I have two (but reg'd in 2000).

If it ain't on the list by both make and model, it's good to go.

Just use it w/a fixed 10rd magazine, or have an open magwell with no other evil features on the rifle, including pistol grip (use a bent piece of sheetmetal to keep the selector lever detent pin in place).

C.G.
03-12-2006, 1:16 PM
This is what is listed in the identification guide:

American Spirit
ASA model

In my mind, that may be a little close for comfort.

Jeff Rambo
03-12-2006, 1:29 PM
C.G.'s response is probably in line with what an FFL will tell you and short of the DOJ, that is who you really need to be inquiring about this with.

fun2none
03-12-2006, 1:39 PM
For whatever it's worth, back in December I found an out of state seller that was offering an Olympic Arms model CAR-AR stripped lower. The Olympic Arms model CAR-15 is listed so the CAR-AR should be ok. In the end, I decided to pass as the model name was too close the listed model.

emahan
03-12-2006, 1:42 PM
The Assault Weapons Identification Guide states "ASA Model", but the Roster of AK and AR-15 Series Weapons refers to the "USA Model". Hmm...

bwiese
03-12-2006, 1:57 PM
The Assault Weapons Identification Guide states "ASA Model", but the Roster of AK and AR-15 Series Weapons refers to the "USA Model". Hmm...

The 'Identification Guide', I believe, was written pre-Harrott. It really has no legal force here.

The ONLY thing that counts for 'listed' AWs is California Code of Regulation sec 979.11 as listed at http://www.oal.ca.gov (do a search for 979.11).

If it's not on here by exact make AND model, it's good to go. Don't play silly games with presence/absences of prefixes or suffixed like "The" or ", Inc." - but "ASA-15" is substantively different model # from "USA model".

shopkeep
04-30-2006, 8:14 PM
The 'Identification Guide', I believe, was written pre-Harrott. It really has no legal force here.

The ONLY thing that counts for 'listed' AWs is California Code of Regulation sec 979.11 as listed at http://www.oal.ca.gov (do a search for 979.11).

If it's not on here by exact make AND model, it's good to go. Don't play silly games with presence/absences of prefixes or suffixed like "The" or ", Inc." - but "ASA-15" is substantively different model # from "USA model".

If you ask me this is really no different from the Rock River Arms LAR-15, Colt ELITE, and Bushmaster CARBON-15 lowers comming into the state. ASA-15 isn't on the list so it's not banned.

stator
05-01-2006, 6:36 AM
Technically, it has to be listed in the Penal Code, or the California Code of Regulations. If it is just in the AW indentification guide, then the AG has not followed the law.

hypertex
09-07-2007, 11:17 AM
For whatever it's worth, back in December I found an out of state seller that was offering an Olympic Arms model CAR-AR stripped lower. The Olympic Arms model CAR-15 is listed so the CAR-AR should be ok. In the end, I decided to pass as the model name was too close the listed model.

Since this model is from about 1985, do any of the AW-type laws even apply to it since it is not listed?<preparing for naive bashing>

fun2none
09-07-2007, 12:15 PM
Since this model is from about 1985, do any of the AW-type laws even apply to it since it is not listed?<preparing for naive bashing>

The Clinton AW ban expired and the CA AW does not list the CAR-AR model. The only thing that applies with respect to CA AW ban is 12276.1 features.

On another note, these Olympic Arms SGW (w/ stop sign hexagon logo) CAR-AR lowers have acquired an unexplainable 1994 pre-ban cachet status. People are paying over $400 for them.

hypertex
09-07-2007, 4:42 PM
...The only thing that applies with respect to CA AW ban is 12276.1 features...

Even if you are the one who bought it in 1985? The (a)Roberti law lists by makes and models, (b)12276.1 lists features. Since the Harrot case says that AK's and AR's have to be listed by make and model in (a) to be AW'S, can 12276.1 still apply in this particular situation? This is SO confusing. Knowing what we know today, Harrot et al., how does either statute apply to the CAR-AR and/or ASA-15 if possessed prior to the CA-AW ban? I think I have been sitting around and thinking about this for too long today...

mecam
09-07-2007, 5:59 PM
Can the CA AW ban ever expire?

hypertex
09-07-2007, 7:16 PM
Can the CA AW ban ever expire?

If the CAR-AR wasn't originally covered by Roberti and Harrot says that AK/AR series is not covered by 12276.1, is it business as usual for the CAR-AR owner? e.g. can have all evil features, hi-cap magazines, etc

bwiese
09-07-2007, 10:21 PM
If the CAR-AR wasn't originally covered by Roberti and Harrot says that AK/AR series is not covered by 12276.1, is it business as usual for the CAR-AR owner? e.g. can have all evil features, hi-cap magazines, etc

No, SB23 features ban still applies.! Harrott just addressed make/model issues matters from orig Roberti-Roos "series" matters, regardless of features.
It did not, and does not, touch any SB23 "features" matters.

Can the CA AW ban ever expire?

Nope, there's no sunset provisions in it, unlike the expired Fed AW ban. It can only be overturned ("Super Harrott").

dtremaine
08-30-2010, 6:08 AM
I have a registered ASA-15 rifle. If you look on the AG website under named by manufacturer and model number you will find American Spirit "USA model'. I recently was talking to them and they informed my that they used to have a "USA MODEL", it was a shotgun. The pdfs I've seen online that list the ASA-15 model does not match the one on the California AG website and that is the only list that matters.
Don

zxdriver
12-26-2011, 10:03 AM
I realize all the post are old, but in looking at the AG website the ASA model is listed. Can guns go off and on the list? Still looking at buying a new lower. Just get tired of looking over my shoulder. Then what to do about the old lower. It's got a serial number tied to me....give it to the law?

bwiese
12-26-2011, 11:58 AM
I realize all the post are old, but in looking at the AG website the ASA model is listed. Can guns go off and on the list? Still looking at buying a new lower. Just get tired of looking over my shoulder. Then what to do about the old lower. It's got a serial number tied to me....give it to the law?


The DOJ has surrendered its ability, starting 2007 (due to AB2728) to add new guns to the list, and this legislation killed the judicial 'add-on' procedure as well.

The DOJ won't remove guns from the Kasler list (of banned AR/AKs) and cannot remove guns from the 1989 Roberti-Roos list (since those latter entities were actually part of the legislation).

If your lower is from American Spirit Arms, and is not specifically a "USA model", you are clear and legal. If someone causes you trouble on such a matter, CGF will back you.

Kharn
12-26-2011, 12:06 PM
The Clinton AW ban expired and the CA AW does not list the CAR-AR model. The only thing that applies with respect to CA AW ban is 12276.1 features.

On another note, these Olympic Arms SGW (w/ stop sign hexagon logo) CAR-AR lowers have acquired an unexplainable 1994 pre-ban cachet status. People are paying over $400 for them.

That is due to people from NY having an AWB with the same 1994 start date as the expired federal law.