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View Full Version : Airsoft AR's Converts to Real AR, Foxnews


remington
05-14-2010, 11:13 AM
Things could heat up...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exclusive-toy-gun-sold-easily-turned-real-thing/

Cobrafreak
05-14-2010, 11:20 AM
Fox ran this? And on May 6th? It's an older story so I'm surprised they are covering is again, but Fox? Story cries Liberal.

RMP91
05-14-2010, 11:28 AM
I believe that airsoft replicas are a very cost-effective training tool for today's law enforcement/military. It takes out the risk (and expenses of course) of training with the real thing, while at the same time you are trained with something that is similar in appearance, feel, weight, and operation to it's "real steel" counterpart. But I would personally like to see how one could even remotely convert a replica that can only fire plastic BBs using either spring power, a certain gas or an electric charge using a rather complicated gearbox system that is housed inside the "receiver" of some of these replicas (not all airsoft guns have a gearbox, some, like I said use gas or spring power).

They failed to even mention the particular make and model of the "weapon" in question. Very few of these airsoft guns are actually even well-enough made (made out of the same materials and and made to operate the exact same way) as the more lethal weapons that they were cloned from. Now, I understand why they are going the alarmist route on this. In a lot of officer involved shootings in which the suspect was shot to death, the "weapon" that they had turned out to be a fake. But the main selling point of these airsoft replicas is their realism and their likeness to the real thing. That's why kids love to have these to go plinking in their backyard or play cops and robbers out in the streets (even though it isn't exactly the smartest place to do it, considering police patrols). Just my thoughts.

ocspeedracer
05-14-2010, 11:34 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exclusive-toy-gun-sold-easily-turned-real-thing/
only slightly a dupe, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=301134 sorry

Dr Rockso
05-14-2010, 11:35 AM
I believe that Airsoft replicas are a very cost-effective training tool for today's law enforcement/military. It takes out the risk (and high expenses of course) of training with the real thing, while at the same time you are trained with something that is similar in appearance, feel, weight, and operation to it's "real steel" counterpart. But I would personally like to see how one could even remotely convert a replica that can only fire plastic BBs using either spring power, a certain gas or an electric charge using a rather complicated gearbox system that is housed inside the "receiver" of some of these replicas (not all airsoft guns have a gearbox, some, like I said use gas or spring power).

Sounds like the airsoft lower receiver is close enough dimensionally to an AR lower that you can mate an upper to it with minimal modifications.

Of course anyone with a drill press could presumably finish an 80% lower, anyway...

a1c
05-14-2010, 11:36 AM
Fox ran this? And on May 6th? It's an older story so I'm surprised they are covering is again, but Fox? Story cries Liberal.

Stupidity is bipartisan.

MichaelKent
05-14-2010, 11:38 AM
But I would personally like to see how one could even remotely convert a replica that can only fire plastic BBs using either spring power, a certain gas or an electric charge using a rather complicated gearbox system that is housed inside the "receiver" of some of these replicas.

The article mentions that you can take the lower receiver from the airsoft and by drilling a hole you can buy other parts (upper receiver and so on) and build an AR-15 for like $1,100. The main concern described is that the lower receiver is the only thing regulated so somebody (like a felon) could buy the airsoft just for the receiver and build an AR out of it that's not registered.


Fox ran this? And on May 6th? It's an older story so I'm surprised they are covering is again, but Fox? Story cries Liberal.

No, a liberal writer would have called it an AK-47. Plus, he/she wouldn't have mentioned specifics about the receiver but would have focused on how the AR-15 is an "instrument of death" and included hysterical calls to action like "omg criminals can convert airsoft, we must totally ban airsoft to SAVE THE KIDS!" ;)

Gofasterdammit
05-14-2010, 11:40 AM
Pure FUD. As a gun enthusiast I can see 1,000,000 reasons why it wouldn't work. The media decides otherwise. It may look the same asthetically but the fit and function would be wayyyy off. Even if someone McGuivered a real AR-15 upper receiver onto the air soft lower, I'd expect it to last one to two rounds before it blew up in their face. If you want your own "off the grid" receiver, build your own legally with an 80% stripped lower. All OLL rules would apply.

ocspeedracer
05-14-2010, 11:43 AM
I can see why some might want off the grid, personally I'm just cheap.

Paradiddle
05-14-2010, 11:44 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exclusive-toy-gun-sold-easily-turned-real-thing/
so if i can get a receiver and drill one hole I can make my own Bullet Button and legal AR so long as i don't sell it, correct? From what I know of the laws a person can make their own gun so long as it's in line with the rest of our laws and I'm eligable to own guns.

Also, are these guns any cheaper than buying and Drosing my own receiver?

Why would anyone concerned for their safety and the safety of others consider something so retarded.

Sicarius
05-14-2010, 11:46 AM
Metal airsoft receivers aren't much cheaper than the real thing... aside from probably not working...
Kevin

Gofasterdammit
05-14-2010, 11:47 AM
I can see why some might want off the grid, personally I'm just cheap.

I've seen stripped lowers for $89. That's pretty cheap to me.

Scotty
05-14-2010, 11:49 AM
What's next, seize some c-channel because you can turn that into an AK?

ocspeedracer
05-14-2010, 11:50 AM
Why would anyone concerned for their safety and the safety of others consider something so retarded.

did you even read the article? Of course this is most likely FUD, in fact in the article they claim "There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

is anyone seriously considering trying cardboard and scotch tape? well with the possible exception of the ATF.

ocspeedracer
05-14-2010, 11:53 AM
I've seen stripped lowers for $89. That's pretty cheap to me.

I first posted this for the laugh, but a stripped lower for $89! i can afford that, but really i'm a pistol guy who doesn't know much about oll's and basically, other than what's legal on it, cuz how could anyone not know after reading the forums for a month? I really don't know how to got about researching to one together for myself... any pointers?

winxp_man
05-14-2010, 11:53 AM
i was once a Airsoft gun tech, and the last lower i put on one of my own personal rifle was a one of the best money can buy for a airsoft lower. there is no way that can be done in no possible way. the Airsoft lower has way to much metal taken away for the lower to work with AR15 LPK and from what i saw the pin holes dont match the AR15 upper.

SKSer
05-14-2010, 11:55 AM
Lord i hope they dont start serializing uppers, that would completely blow. What are the Airsoft lowers made of?

winxp_man
05-14-2010, 11:55 AM
Metal airsoft receivers aren't much cheaper than the real thing... aside from probably not working...
Kevin


true true. google Hurrican airsoft metal body. i got mine for 200 buck from what i remember.

Tacom
05-14-2010, 11:57 AM
No, a liberal writer would have called it an AK-47. Plus, he/she wouldn't have mentioned specifics about the receiver but would have focused on how the AR-15 is an "instrument of death" and included hysterical calls to action like "omg criminals can convert airsoft, we must totally ban airsoft to SAVE THE KIDS!" ;)

As opposed to calling it a machine gun several times? Also the article has its own share of fear mongering in it:
All the remaining parts of the real thing can be purchased by anyone – any kid, criminal or terrorist.

Stupid is indeed bipartisan.

Solidsnake87
05-14-2010, 12:02 PM
This hole thing is BS. You cannot convert the things..........

Even if you could, its more cost effective to buy a jig and an 80% lower anyway..........

reidnez
05-14-2010, 12:07 PM
In other breaking news, criminals have been buying guns from other criminals ILLEGALLY, off the street, with ZERO registration or regulation! :willy_nilly:

Won't somebody think of the children?!

POLICESTATE
05-14-2010, 12:08 PM
Yeah go ahead and try some spit and bailing wire as well as other modifications to make a metal airsoft receiver accept the parts to make a real-steel AR and see what happens when you shoot it.

stix213
05-14-2010, 12:10 PM
This doesn't sound at all dangerous or irresponsible.

Group B
05-14-2010, 12:13 PM
is anyone seriously considering trying cardboard and scotch tape? well with the possible exception of the ATF.

Len Savage knows this all too well:

http://www.jpfo.org/images02/BM3000.jpg

SDCgunner
05-14-2010, 12:14 PM
I think this is all bull. They are just trying to make a different approuch to getting ride of all type of weaponary, first toys and then go for the real ones since they "say" one can put a upper and other parts and thats it you got a real firearm. Those lowers wont be able to take any real parts from an AR and if they do they wont hold very long just my 2 cents.

reidnez
05-14-2010, 12:16 PM
“The upper is what contains the barrel, the breecher bolt, that’s what contains all the pressure,”

I don't think my AR15 came with a breecher bolt. Is that why it runs funny sometimes? Are breecher bolts legal in California? Man, I'm glad Fox News found a firearms expert to bring this to my attention!

Dr Rockso
05-14-2010, 12:24 PM
did you even read the article? Of course this is most likely FUD, in fact in the article they claim "There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

is anyone seriously considering trying cardboard and scotch tape? well with the possible exception of the ATF.
There's a post somewhere where a dude makes a working lower out of a few plastic ikea cutting boards glued together and crudely milled to accept an upper and a LPK. Probably won't last long at all, but I doubt it's particularly dangerous. It's not like the lower receiver really sees that much pressure, anyway.

Barabas
05-14-2010, 12:33 PM
Man. I love this topic. If you guys saw what airsoft looked like back in the 80s, you wouldn't be poo pooing the idea of converting toys into firearms. This resurgence in gas guns will bring to America all of the pitfalls that caused the JNPA to shut down and regulate airsoft manufacturers in Japan.

viras
05-14-2010, 12:36 PM
There's a post somewhere where a dude makes a working lower out of a few plastic ikea cutting boards glued together and crudely milled to accept an upper and a LPK. Probably won't last long at all, but I doubt it's particularly dangerous. It's not like the lower receiver really sees that much pressure, anyway.

Here you go:

The same guy tried to build one out of wood too... check out the http://www.weaponeer.net forums.

How to build a Homebuilt HPDE AR15 Lower (http://230grain.com/showthread.php?t=31611)

8DUmwZ_Sd2s

dizzy
05-14-2010, 12:41 PM
I wonder if any of the rimfire uppers will fit and function on an airsoft lower. No buffer & spring needed on the lower.

nick
05-14-2010, 12:49 PM
Looks like the ATF FUD related to that confiscation of airsoft toys from Taiwan a couple of months ago. They're now trying to justify it, and the media picks it up.

stitchnicklas
05-14-2010, 12:52 PM
:willy_nilly:

grnt
05-14-2010, 12:55 PM
So which brand is it? The cheap plastic see thru taiwan made big 5 selling for 20 dollar one???

morepoop4u
05-14-2010, 12:58 PM
lol they used my pic of my guns with my circa 2005 home depot mag lock and bushy 10rds mag.

luckystrike
05-14-2010, 12:59 PM
I don't think my AR15 came with a breecher bolt. Is that why it runs funny sometimes? Are breecher bolts legal in California? Man, I'm glad Fox News found a firearms expert to bring this to my attention!


man ive been meaning to get a breecherbolt:rofl2:

I thought it was an ar15...but a journalist told me it was an ak47, then another told me it was a glock......

Dr Rockso
05-14-2010, 1:04 PM
lol they used my pic of my guns with my circa 2005 home depot mag lock and bushy 10rds mag.

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/U.S./gunspiccopy_monster_397x224.jpg

That's your AR? Damn what are the odds....

winnre
05-14-2010, 1:06 PM
Well we all know they got rid of telescoping car antennas because they could fire .22's.

Marlin Hunter
05-14-2010, 1:08 PM
This hole thing is BS. You cannot convert the things..........




I converted an old tennis shoe into a GE mini-gun.:43:

I also converted a 1970 Ford Pinto into a nuclear aircraft carrier.:eek:

Anything is possible when your full of ****.:D

JDoe
05-14-2010, 1:08 PM
I think this is all bull. They are just trying to make a different approuch to getting ride of all type of weaponary, first toys and then go for the real ones since they "say" one can put a upper and other parts and thats it you got a real firearm. Those lowers wont be able to take any real parts from an AR and if they do they wont hold very long just my 2 cents.

From what I've read and seen posted by people who actually own the airsofts in question, they are dimensionally incompatible with real AR parts including uppers.

This looks like a job for Myth Busters!

morepoop4u
05-14-2010, 1:10 PM
They got it from the .223 gallery. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=240256&postcount=160

The Cable Guy
05-14-2010, 1:13 PM
I work in the airsoft industry, it does not work. We've tested fit of uppers and lowers. The manufacturers were very careful in making sure that these things are not compatible with the real thing. Plus, why would criminals go through all the trouble if you can just get one illegally?

Dr Rockso
05-14-2010, 1:17 PM
They got it from the .223 gallery. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=240256&postcount=160

I'll be...

Looks like CGN owns the first page of google image search for AR-15. Three pics of the 'Hello Kitty' AR plus your pic (which is re-hosted on some Russian site (http://guns.yfa1.ru/eng/AR15.html)).

Paradiddle
05-14-2010, 1:54 PM
If you cannot afford to build a proper AR you cannot afford to shoot it - so why bother? This is not a cheap hobby.

bohoki
05-14-2010, 2:00 PM
Lord i hope they dont start serializing uppers, that would completely blow. What are the Airsoft lowers made of?

i think they are die cast zinc

that is a real stretch to make an airsoft work by only drilling one hole and throwing on an upper


also if it is up to the manufacturer to chose where to put the serial when is a company going to come out with ar-15s with the uppers serialed

the article is so full of wrong info when i hit the "breecher bolt" it lost all credibility

Mstrty
05-14-2010, 2:11 PM
Is there any evidence that anyone ever did this. Are we looking for a problem in need of a solution? I hope that the Airsoft companies make changes to keep their lowers as toys only. I just find it funny that there isnt a problem yet we need a solution.

Bad guys dont know how to run drills. Much easier to knock over a house steel the AR than "purchase"(I know its funny) toy parts for 1100 dollars when according to Janet Napalitano and Obama, bad guys just get their friends to buy firearms at border town gun shops (usually on sale)and straw them to other bad guys.:mad:

tiki
05-14-2010, 2:21 PM
i think they are die cast zinc

that is a real stretch to make an airsoft work by only drilling one hole and throwing on an upper


also if it is up to the manufacturer to chose where to put the serial when is a company going to come out with ar-15s with the uppers serialed

the article is so full of wrong info when i hit the "breecher bolt" it lost all credibility

Well, don't worry. It doesn't have one of those shoulder things that go up so its ok.

barrym66
05-14-2010, 2:23 PM
The story did mention that an AR built using one of these would likely fail quickly. I'll bet the manufacturer just copied a real AR lower forging (but cast out of an inferior grade of aluminum) to save time/tooling cost.

The easy fix is to get the mfr of this particular gun to modify the lower casting so that it won't take any AR parts (trigger group, mag, stock) without major machine work (milling, etc).

Having said that, I'll bet $.01 that the ATF/CA DOJ tries to use this to require the registration of upper receivers or barrels. We need to close the "Airsoft Loophole", after all!

FWIW, I have numerous Airsoft guns (G17's and 2011 clones set up like my 'real' race guns, and an AR-15 clone) and and a full IDPA/USPSA target range that I practice regularly with at home. I have blown up/worn out numerous airsoft guns - the cheap ones break very quickly (~3K "rounds" fired) and the good ones cost as much as a 'real' gun.

I see this as a bit of a tempest in a teacup... it's no doubt easier and cheaper for a criminal to buy a gun on the street than to buy an Airsoft and have it modified to operate a real upper!

1stLineGear
05-14-2010, 2:24 PM
I say BS! This is something where I will have to see it to believe it.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exclusive-toy-gun-sold-easily-turned-real-thing/

Felons, illegal immigrants and all others banned from buying a gun in the United States have a new alternative if they’re looking to get their hands on a firearm: Just buy a toy.

A FoxNews.com investigation reveals that a popular recreational pellet gun can be converted easily to a real semi-automatic weapon. And while the federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is already aware of the issue, these “toys” -- new, top-of-the-line airsoft rifles -- continue to be sold throughout the country.

Like paintball without the paint, the propane-powered airsoft guns are designed to shoot quarter-inch plastic pellets and are generally used for recreation or in military and law enforcement training.

When the ATF seized a shipment of 30 of these guns in October from a port in Tacoma, Wash., it said they could be “readily convertible” to machine guns. But gun experts called that claim absurd and said the ATF was overstepping its bounds.

Now one of those critics is reversing his position, saying at least one airsoft manufacturer has taken the quest to be authentic a little too far.

“The airsoft can be converted to an AR-15,” firearms manufacturer Leo Gonnuscio told FoxNews.com after testing the make and model of airsoft guns seized by the ATF.

Having concluded that several other airsoft guns could not be converted to fire real ammunition, Gonnuscio said he was surprised to find that he was able to to transform this particular gun to the real thing -- and with “minimal work,” because its bottom half, or “receiver,” is so similar to an AR-15's.

To make the airsoft receiver function just like an AR-15’s, Gonnuscio said, “All you have to do is drill one hole.”

And once that's out of the way, the rest is even easier. The AR-15 receiver is the only part of the semi-automatic rifle that is given a serial number, and is the only part that is regulated. All the remaining parts of the real thing can be purchased by anyone – any kid, criminal or terrorist.

The cost of buying the Taiwan-made airsoft gun and all the parts needed to convert it to an AR-15 comes to roughly $1,100 -- more than the cost of some real AR-15s. But someone who can’t clear a background check or has been refused a gun for any other reason could use this method to make his own lethal weapon, Gonnuscio said.

Making it into a machine gun, he said, would require yet another conversion, and the makeshift gun would likely be able to fire only 15-20 rounds before it stopped working due to the pressure it would have to withstand while firing in an automatic fashion.

But as semi-automatic weapon, Gonnuscio said, “It may not last forever, but they’ve got a gun to get the job done that they were assigned to do, and nobody knows the wiser.”

The ATF has made no reported moves to regulate or seize any more of the airsoft guns, which continue to be sold in stores around the country, and it appears to be bowing to critics and reconsidering its stance on the guns' convertibility.

“We’re having to take a serious look at this, so it’s just something that we’re reviewing, and I’m hoping we’ll have some information that we can make available to the public certainly very soon,” ATF spokesman Drew Wade told FoxNews.com.

But firearms expert Len Savage said the ATF is taking a “serious look” at the wrong issue -- or, more specifically, the wrong part of the gun.

The reason it’s possible to make these airsoft receivers function as real receivers is that all an AR-15 receiver does is hold the gun together, Savage said. So with enough gun knowledge, almost anything can be made into a receiver.

“There’s a line of AR-15 firearms out there where the lower (the receiver) is made entirely of injection molded plastic … It could be made of cardboard and scotch tape,” he said.

The most important part of an AR-15, and the most difficult part to replicate, he said, is the upper half of the gun -- which is unmarked, unregulated and readily available for purchase.

“The upper is what contains the barrel, the breecher bolt, that’s what contains all the pressure,” Savage said.

He said the reason the lower half of the AR-15 is the part with the serial number, and thus classified as the receiver, is that it was up to the manufacturer to choose the location of the gun’s serial number. Because the bottom of the gun has a flat surface, it was the easiest to mark.

And though federal law has since defined a gun’s receiver as the part “which provides housing for the hammer, bolt, breechblock and firing mechanism,” Savage says the bureau has continued to mark and regulate the lower part of the AR-15 to avoid confusion.

“In the stream of commerce, you’d have uppers that were marked and regulated and then lowers that were marked and regulated, you could see the confusion on a dealer basis” in determining which parts require licensing and which don’t, Savage said.

But even though the upper half of the gun can be bought by anyone, Gonnuscio still says that banning the airsoft receivers and implementing a few new rules for airsoft manufacturers could be a good start to keeping unregulated AR-15s off the street.

“I would hope that the ATF applies pressure to the manufacturers of these airsoft guns to redesign them so they cannot be converted," he said. "Make them move the pin holes ... so that an upper can’t be attached to it without major machining.

"Fill in some of that gap so that they would literally have to chuck this thing up in a mill and totally reconfigure it to work. Tighten up the magazine well so a regular magazine won’t fit in it.”

And because the U.S. is such a big market for these airsoft guns, Gonnuscio said, a foreign manufacture would change the product if its current design were banned here.

“There are tons of good uses for these guns: We use them for training, kids do reenacting with them, kids get out there and play just like the old days. We played BB gun wars when we were kids and we survived. These are little plastic balls that are shot by electricity or propane.

"So let them have their toys. Just make sure they’re still toys.”

Casual_Shooter
05-14-2010, 2:29 PM
Dupe

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=301134

ocspeedracer
05-14-2010, 2:30 PM
:dupe: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=301139

dirtykoala
05-14-2010, 2:32 PM
DUPE!!!!!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=301139

Casual_Shooter
05-14-2010, 2:36 PM
:dupe: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=301139

DUPE!!!!!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=301139

Dupes of my Dupe!

Sinister_1
05-14-2010, 2:45 PM
I think someone here should prove this wrong...

1stLineGear
05-14-2010, 2:46 PM
Dupes of my Dupe!


:eek: Busted by the dupe police!

Nose Nuggets
05-14-2010, 2:50 PM
just in case someone hasn't said it yet, i think this story is a dupe.

1stLineGear
05-14-2010, 2:54 PM
just in case someone hasn't said it yet, i think this story is a dupe.

I got busted 5 times by the dupe police in this thread. Since I'm a LEO can't you give me a break officers? :D

pdq_wizzard
05-14-2010, 3:12 PM
we bought our son an M-15A4 and it looks like a real one but it won't take a real mag and the pins are off just a little bit (when I first seen the story / FUD I had to check) . It didn't cost $1K but it was as much as I paid to build my AR-15.

I think it would be easer to build a gun out of wood that to convert an Airsoft gun.

also I don't know that I would call an Airsoft gun a toy they will make you bleed. (ask me how I know) :eek:

sd1023x
05-14-2010, 3:14 PM
Dupes of my Dupe!

You've been duped....:mnl:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=273640

gun toting monkeyboy
05-14-2010, 3:19 PM
No. Simply put, no. The ATF had to give back all of those airsoft guns they confiscated a few months back because they couldn't manage to prove to a judge that you could modify one. And those were some of the really well built gas operated ones IIRC. Most of the electric ones are either made of ABS plastic or cheap pot metal. And they are VERY different than an AR lower both on the inside and on the outside where it is normally covered by the plastic furniture. If somebody has the tools, the skills and the know-how to make one of these into a functional firearm, they could just as easily make said firearm out of a chunk of wood or a brick. Can it be done? Certainly. But the number of people who could pull it off are few and far between. And make enough money as skilled machinists that petty crimes like that would be a waste of time. Granted, airsoft guns can look incredibly real. When I have mine sitting in the rack next to the real ARs, you would be hard pressed to pick it out of the crowd. But once you handle them a bit, or take them apart, the differences become readily apparent.

-Mb

winnre
05-14-2010, 3:29 PM
I got busted 5 times by the dupe police in this thread. Since I'm a LEO can't you give me a break officers? :D

You mean, let you off with a warning? :rofl2:

shark92651
05-14-2010, 3:57 PM
I'll be...

Looks like CGN owns the first page of google image search for AR-15. Three pics of the 'Hello Kitty' AR plus your pic (which is re-hosted on some Russian site (http://guns.yfa1.ru/eng/AR15.html)).

Wow, the pic of my wife holding her Hello Kitty rifle is still one of the top image search results for "AR-15" :D

winnre
05-14-2010, 4:12 PM
I converted an old tennis shoe into a GE mini-gun.:43:

I also converted a 1970 Ford Pinto into a nuclear aircraft carrier.:eek:

Anything is possible when your full of ****.:D

I had those too until a helicopter landed on Highway 15 and took them from me.

POLICESTATE
05-14-2010, 4:54 PM
Looks like the ATF FUD related to that confiscation of airsoft toys from Taiwan a couple of months ago. They're now trying to justify it, and the media picks it up.

Taiwan confiscated airsoft guns? Is there a link to that?

Dr Rockso
05-14-2010, 5:02 PM
Taiwan confiscated airsoft guns? Is there a link to that?
No, ATF confiscated a shipment of airsoft guns from Taiwan.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/ATF-seizes-30-toy-guns-infuriating-local-business/vUVs2QUCAUuZWeRrqgIQaA.cspx

anniepoks
05-14-2010, 5:03 PM
i'd say its a news reporter WHO converted such
from a toy receiver to a "real" gun so he can create a scoop as well.
.........idiotas veritas!

POLICESTATE
05-14-2010, 5:38 PM
No, ATF confiscated a shipment of airsoft guns from Taiwan.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/ATF-seizes-30-toy-guns-infuriating-local-business/vUVs2QUCAUuZWeRrqgIQaA.cspx

Oh yeah I remember that. ATF, those guys :rolleyes:

Bhobbs
05-14-2010, 5:44 PM
This is just another stretch to try and find a way to make AR ownership that much more difficult.

Fate
05-14-2010, 7:27 PM
lol they used my pic of my guns with my circa 2005 home depot mag lock and bushy 10rds mag.
You should immediately archive/webwhack that page. Then print a copy along with a copy of your original photo. Then send them a bill for $2,000 for using your COPYRIGHTED work along with a letter claiming infringement and a timeline for payment. State you will grant them one time rights (which they've used) and demand the photo be removed from archived story. If they don't pay, sue their assets off. I'm serious.

shark92651
05-14-2010, 7:40 PM
Things could heat up...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/exclusive-toy-gun-sold-easily-turned-real-thing/

“The airsoft can be converted to an AR-15,” firearms manufacturer Leo Gonnuscio told FoxNews.com after testing the make and model of airsoft guns seized by the ATF.

I wonder if this is the guy that supposedly did this conversion?

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000794547260

Employer: Kind Mountain Gun Works

Hmmm, I hope he enjoys his 15 minutes of fame while giving this ammunition to the anti-gunners. Way to go, Leo :rolleyes:

Gallows
05-14-2010, 7:56 PM
Nonsense, complete nonsense.

Group B
05-14-2010, 8:52 PM
“The airsoft can be converted to an AR-15,” firearms manufacturer Leo Gonnuscio told FoxNews.com after testing the make and model of airsoft guns seized by the ATF.

I wonder if this is the guy that supposedly did this conversion?

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000794547260

Employer: Kind Mountain Gun Works

Hmmm, I hope he enjoys his 15 minutes of fame while giving this ammunition to the anti-gunners. Way to go, Leo :rolleyes:

Let him know how you feel:

Contact Info:

Kind Mountain Gunworks
410 N 4Th Ave
Cornelius, OR. 97113
(503) 359-7601

Mailing Address:

Gonnuscio, Leonard Leo
410 N 4Th Ave
Cornelius, OR. 97113
(503) 359-7601

fastkevin
05-14-2010, 11:57 PM
I own one of these.. It's a "WE" M4. Apparently the ATF stole confiscated the latest shipment of 'em into Seattle recently.
FWIW, the receiver and barrel are made of pot metal and there's no way in heck they'd ever hold the pressures of a 5.56 or .223. Then there's the problem with the barrel itself being bored for a bb and not a bullet, and of course it being a smooth bore doesn't help either.

Dr Rockso
05-15-2010, 12:36 AM
I own one of these.. It's a "WE" M4. Apparently the ATF stole confiscated the latest shipment of 'em into Seattle recently.
FWIW, the receiver and barrel are made of pot metal and there's no way in heck they'd ever hold the pressures of a 5.56 or .223. Then there's the problem with the barrel itself being bored for a bb and not a bullet, and of course it being a smooth bore doesn't help either.
They're not talking about any component of the upper whatsoever...they're talking about having a lower that can (allegedly) be easily modified to accept real AR uppers. Of course by some definitions an 80% receiver can be 'easily' modified to do the same thing. If it's substantially less work to mod the airsoft lower than it is to finish an 80% lower it gets kind of hard to argue with their decision.

SDgarrick
05-15-2010, 1:13 AM
frogazz

News flash kids getting drunk on seven up and whisky. fox just found out kids can legally buy seven up. this can be converted to an alcoholic drink with just the addition of whisky. the government must act now to protect our kids from underage drinking.

This was posted in the comments section, not my words, but I thought it a pretty good analogy. It's too bad the way guns are made such an emotional illogical issue. Anything is a weapon, your will is what transforms it.

SanPedroShooter
05-15-2010, 7:57 AM
...remember back in the old days when you could buy an ar-15 upper right over the counter, or have one sent to your house???....

1st5
05-15-2010, 8:45 AM
OK, I read the article. Sounds like one manufacturer may make a lower that can be modified. Doesn't sound like it will work for very long. The remaining manufacturers will most likely put pressure on the one to change it so it doesn't screw up the market for everybody.
But, yes, the article is the usual poorly written FUD meant to get sheeple up in arms about the EBR.

Dr Rockso
05-15-2010, 10:52 AM
Wrong. You can still do all that. You can mail order them (all it takes is a credit card and a mailing address, and knowing the URL for Ten Percent Firearms or Cold War Shooters), you can buy them over the counter at various gun stores (I just looked at the ones at the SJGX last week, very pretty, no background check required), and you can buy them face-to-face (I just sold one last week). All perfectly legal.

I think he meant one that you don't have to machine yourself...

CSACANNONEER
05-15-2010, 11:01 AM
You guys who think that converting an airsoft AR15 lower to accept a centerfire upper is not possible really have no clue. It is not only possible, depending on the airsoft gun, it's as easy as finishing an 80% lower. Maybe even easier. I've seen some classic airsoft guns which even used M16 triggers (not complete FCGs). I have a very early electric Armalite M16 (airsoft) which would need new holes for the FCG and a little milling done to make it a fully functional AR15 lower.

Of course, it would be easier and cheaper to just build up an 80% lower but, it's not impossible to convert SOME airsoft guns into functioning firearms. I do not know anything about the ones which were confinscated though.

I think he meant one that you don't have to machine yourself...

You can buy complete uppers mail order, over the counter or FTF. Uppers do not require any paperwork what so ever.

...remember back in the old days when you could buy an ar-15 upper right over the counter, or have one sent to your house???....

Remember back in the old days when you could order a Thompson SMG from the Sear's catalog and it would be sent USPS right to your door?

Mac Attack
05-15-2010, 11:14 AM
I think if we are talking a. 223 using the airsoft upper then I think this is fud. However if they are talking about a. 22 then it may be possible. Afterall the GSG5 is nothing more than an airsoft with fire control components and a tube barrel.

pyro3k2
05-15-2010, 11:15 AM
...remember back in the old days when you could buy an ar-15 upper right over the counter, or have one sent to your house???....

I understood what you meant, it's ok

Dr Rockso
05-15-2010, 11:22 AM
You can buy complete uppers mail order, over the counter or FTF. Uppers do not require any paperwork what so ever.
I thought we were talking about lowers....

dieselpower
05-15-2010, 11:24 AM
Wrong. You can still do all that. You can mail order them (all it takes is a credit card and a mailing address, and knowing the URL for Ten Percent Firearms or Cold War Shooters), you can buy them over the counter at various gun stores (I just looked at the ones at the SJGX last week, very pretty, no background check required), and you can buy them face-to-face (I just sold one last week). All perfectly legal.


LOL...its a joke man. he is showing how the media and anti-gun crowd is going to try and force serialized uppers which would need to be sold through an FFL...

I guess you didnt read the article.

JagerTroop
05-15-2010, 11:26 AM
also if it is up to the manufacturer to chose where to put the serial when is a company going to come out with ar-15s with the uppers serialed



That would just create unserialized ar15s. Buy a lower from a company that serializes the upper, and an upper from one that serializes the lower :D

Ultimate fail on the part of the manufacturer. What's done is done. The lowers have the number... it has to stay that way forever.

CSACANNONEER
05-15-2010, 11:38 AM
That would just create unserialized ar15s. Buy a lower from a company that serializes the upper, and an upper from one that serializes the lower :D

Ultimate fail on the part of the manufacturer. What's done is done. The lowers have the number... it has to stay that way forever.

Just make your own from castings or billet. There is no legal requirement for a homebuilt gun to have a SN.

patriot_man
05-15-2010, 11:48 AM
I could see how a mil spec dimension airsoft lower could be made into a real lower.

http://wem4guide.wikidot.com/lower-receiver-takedown

415
05-18-2010, 7:18 AM
This was in the paper copy of the SF Examiner yesterday. Pg 3 or 4

http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/Daily-Outrage-Fake-rifles-easily-converted-into-semi-automatic-weapons-93910644.html

technique
05-18-2010, 8:23 AM
I saw a real live ATF reported/registered airsoft gun the other day....it was pretty funny.

1911su16b870
05-18-2010, 9:34 AM
I have disassembled the Classic Army Airsoft M4 and have worked with ARs. It would not be easy to make the airsoft receivers (uppers and lowers) into be a functioning AR.

Barabas
05-18-2010, 10:14 AM
They aren't talking about AEG's pardner.

cyamate
05-18-2010, 10:49 AM
An entity was looking for high end gas blow back airsoft rifles styled after M4's for training. The requirement was for a professional training tool versus a toy. A few companies had GBB rifles that would comply with the requirements but no local importers would agree to ship. The rifles were examined and were indeed of very high quality. So much so that it can be understood why we will never see these coming into our state or any other.

The gas blow back rifle is very different from the AEG automatic electric gun that is so common now. The gas lower was basically copied from a real AR lower including the internals and the pin arrangements. The design looked like they took a real lower and converted it to operate with a gas blow back bolt design. Most if not all of the real steel parts fit or could be made to fit including the bolt release. The whole purpose of the gas blowback was to make it as close of a real steel simulator as possible optimised for semi auto functioning with a bolt hold open capability.

I don't beleive the news reports showed the high end GBB rifles but they are out there and they are very nice. Potentially buying an airsoft rifle, whose lower reciever is that close to out of the box ready for real steel conversion is bad for the airsoft industry and for the firearms industry. This story is based on FUD but there are some real concerns if you look at what the potential outcome could be.

West545
05-18-2010, 9:48 PM
Look with being a tech for a major shop in so cal I can honestly tell you this is 100% bull. AEG's or the electric guns are out of spec with there real steel counter parts. they have to accommodate both the gearbox and motor which leaves the whole body out of spec for any lower parts and or bolt carrier.

As for Gas blow back. The m4s from WA and WE and all other companies in between 1. the bodies are 9/10 off scale. they have a slightly smaller body compared to a real ar ontop of that the bodies them selves are to far milled out to accommodate special brackets for the trigger assembly they use.

All this claims that you can convert airsoft guns into real working firearms is just bs and people really need to pull there heads out of a certain area.

Britain went through the same issues with anti guns fearmonglers and instead of having an orange muzzle they have to paint 60% of there bodies a florescent color and any dealers must be registered to do so with permits from the government.

Come one are we really on this path now?

Barabas
05-19-2010, 8:04 AM
Ask Mr. Tawada from Escort why he wouldn't sell direct to the US for over twenty years. He used to get very upset when technical questions came from outside Japan, and it wasn't because of a communications barrier.

morfeeis
05-19-2010, 12:25 PM
They got it from the .223 gallery. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=240256&postcount=160
You should sue

stormy_clothing
05-19-2010, 5:09 PM
so let me get this straight they gave a demonstration on how to break the law? - ban fox news for the safety of our cops, children and moral national infrastructural environmental securities.

Dr Rockso
05-19-2010, 5:20 PM
so let me get this straight they gave a demonstration on how to break the law? - ban fox news for the safety of our cops, children and moral national infrastructural environmental securities.

Hmm...would assembling a functional lower from an airsoft lower be breaking the law? If it's no easier than finishing an 80% lower it wouldn't be AFAIK. If it is easier than manufacturing from an 80% lower (and I imagine it is) would you be breaking the law manufacturing from it, and/or would the seller be breaking the law by selling it to you?