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View Full Version : Legality of having but not installed sawed bbl?


Ironballs
03-11-2006, 9:03 PM
What is the legality of having a short bbl that is not installed on a shotgun, and stored in another room. Basically, if i have a mossy with a 28" bbl in my safe, is it legal to have a 14" bbl in my closet? (not installed and far from the shotgun)- or is it 'constructive posession' or some nonesense....

hypothetically of course- thanks guys-

blacklisted
03-11-2006, 9:04 PM
What is the legality of having a short bbl that is not installed on a shotgun, and stored in another room. Basically, if i have a mossy with a 28" bbl in my safe, is it legal to have a 14" bbl in my closet? (not installed and far from the shotgun)- or is it 'constructive posession' or some nonesense....

hypothetically of course- thanks guys-

I think that constructive possession applies since this is a Federal issue. I'm not sure though.

jdberger
03-11-2006, 9:09 PM
Don't know the answer, but I'm sure that the oft touted 58 DAs would be thrilled to help you figure it out.

Short answer (since I seem just full of sarcasm today) is get rid of the darn thing. Why take a chance?

blacklisted
03-11-2006, 9:11 PM
Do you have any dogs in your house?

xenophobe
03-11-2006, 9:18 PM
I think that constructive possession applies since this is a Federal issue. I'm not sure though.

If you own the barrel alone, you are okay.

If you own the shotgun alone, you are okay.

If you own both of them you are in serious trouble.

Constructive possession indeed applies, and you can have the barrel somewhere else, like on a different piece of property that you own, and you can still get in big trouble.

artherd
03-11-2006, 9:24 PM
Constructive Posession can and has been applied to federal NFA violations.

Wheras constructibe posession of Cat-III AWs (say a Springfield M1a with a brake, and an uninstalled flash hider sitting next to you) tend to not apply RE: CA state law. I even have a DOJ letter around here saying as much.

Since you're violating both a federal AND presumeably unexempted state law by constructive means, you're in trouble on the fed side for sure and potentially on the state side as well.

Yes CA has it's own SBS (short barrel shotgun) ban.

Ironballs
03-11-2006, 9:25 PM
would the bbl be more illegal or would it be irrelevant if i was making meth in my garage while having the bbl in the closet... J/K
dude, I dont have it... just want to know the legality before even dreaming of posessing. If illegal, then no go-

just a thought... I figure if i ever make the move to NV, then ill file the paper work, paythe stamp/tax, then toss on the bbl, but should get it before hand- dont have to but would like to know if its criminal to do so.... looks like it is, so i will take a big pass on getting one...

metalhead357
03-11-2006, 9:44 PM
Wheras constructibe posession of Cat-III AWs (say a Springfield M1a with a brake, and an uninstalled flash hider sitting next to you) tend to not apply RE: CA state law. I even have a DOJ letter around here saying as much.


Artherd! Please be so kind as to find her and post 'errrrr? As I've oft times wondered that one! And was there any exception to the "pre-ban weapons' vs SB23??????? Friggity frak...had to go and sell my FS for fear of being caught with it....this state is nutts sometimes and making me the same!!!!!

Sorry for the Hijack folks---- back to the original threading:D

shopkeep
03-12-2006, 12:17 AM
The laws on SBS, SBR, Silencers, and Full Autos are VERY hardcore. Remember, even a single M-16 part in an AR-15 will cause the rifle to be considered a machine gun by the ATF even if it is not operational.

Hence if you have a 14" barrel I suggest you loose it next time you go fishing or immediately destroy it.

TheMan
03-12-2006, 12:25 AM
would the bbl be more illegal or would it be irrelevant if i was making meth in my garage while having the bbl in the closet... J/K

If you can show that the shortened barrel is actually part of the meth lab, and not laying around as parts for your shotgun, you will probably not have to worry about the constructive possession argument. :D

adamsreeftank
03-12-2006, 12:27 AM
If you really want to be ready for the day the zombies come knocking on your door, here is what I suggest.

Keep your shotgun with the legal 18.5 barrel in the safe, and keep a nice sharp hacksaw in the garage.

Just be sure you never combine the two.

Now if you move to NV, are you really going to care about a SBS, when there are RDIAS, SBRs and cans to be had (legally)...

EBWhite
03-12-2006, 12:44 AM
So If i reading it right, it you be illegal to own a 14" ar upper. Now, as long as the barrel is not attached why would this be illegal?

kantstudien
03-12-2006, 1:20 AM
The laws on SBS, SBR, Silencers, and Full Autos are VERY hardcore. Remember, even a single M-16 part in an AR-15 will cause the rifle to be considered a machine gun by the ATF even if it is not operational.

Hence if you have a 14" barrel I suggest you loose it next time you go fishing or immediately destroy it.

I think you are incorrect about this issue. M16 carriers are found installed in many AR manufacturer's rifles, and they have no problem federally. Even though Bushmaster says "no M16 parts to Kali" I am pretty sure they are just being extra cautious. An M16 carrier does nothing without all the other parts except for reduce weight. I would think a short shotgun barrel is just like a threaded pistol barrel: Okay if uninstalled, but EVIL if installed. Can anyone shed light on this issue that is not opinion?

adamsreeftank
03-12-2006, 1:21 AM
So If i reading it right, it you be illegal to own a 14" ar upper. Now, as long as the barrel is not attached why would this be illegal?

Unless there is a permanently attached device to bring the length over 16 inches (like a Bushmaster Izzy brake) It would be the makings of a "short barrel rifle". You might be OK if you don't have any lowers, but if you do, you could be charged with Constructive Intent, or something like that. Just having the parts to make an illegal weapon is as much a crime as actually making the illegal weapon.

That's why most places that sell 14.5 inch uppers without perm. attached muzzle brakes have that little "all NFA rules apply" notice.

JHC
03-12-2006, 6:25 AM
I wonder if having a hacksaw in close proximity to your barrel would be considered suspicious:rolleyes:

bdcc11
03-12-2006, 8:16 AM
Another hypothetical to go with this one. What if you own the shot gun but someone else owns the 14" barrel. You keep the shotgun in your save and they keep the barrel in their closet. Are you considered in possession of the barrel if you have access to the closet when the room mate isn't home?

adamsreeftank
03-12-2006, 8:31 AM
Another hypothetical to go with this one. What if you own the shot gun but someone else owns the 14" barrel. You keep the shotgun in your save and they keep the barrel in their closet. Are you considered in possession of the barrel if you have access to the closet when the room mate isn't home?

Room mate=same house=big trouble

-hanko
03-12-2006, 10:23 AM
The laws on SBS, SBR, Silencers, and Full Autos are VERY hardcore. Remember, even a single M-16 part in an AR-15 will cause the rifle to be considered a machine gun by the ATF even if it is not operational.
That's not close to correct. A cite would be appreciated.

-hanko

ohsmily
03-12-2006, 10:36 AM
The laws on SBS, SBR, Silencers, and Full Autos are VERY hardcore. Remember, even a single M-16 part in an AR-15 will cause the rifle to be considered a machine gun by the ATF even if it is not operational.

Hence if you have a 14" barrel I suggest you loose it next time you go fishing or immediately destroy it.

This is not true. Only regulated M16 parts will cause a rifle to be considered a machine gun (i.e. sear, disconnect, etc). M16 bolt carrier groups are perfectly legal to have in your ar-15.

grammaton76
03-12-2006, 11:25 AM
Another hypothetical to go with this one. What if you own the shot gun but someone else owns the 14" barrel. You keep the shotgun in your save and they keep the barrel in their closet. Are you considered in possession of the barrel if you have access to the closet when the room mate isn't home?

Yes. But if you keep the barrel with your parents living a ways away though, no.

EBWhite
03-14-2006, 9:37 PM
You see these part kits for sale, AK krinkov, AMD-65, (both have 12-14 inch barrels, these are legal to own since they are onlys parts but if you already own a bare AK receiver, it would make it illegal to own these kits???

metalhead357
03-14-2006, 11:38 PM
You see these part kits for sale, AK krinkov, AMD-65, (both have 12-14 inch barrels, these are legal to own since they are onlys parts but if you already own a bare AK receiver, it would make it illegal to own these kits???

To a logical person NO, but to overly zealous and unfortuantely cantakerous DA's looking to make "good" for the soccer moms.....YEA. Parts possession in Cali is still pretty much a no no....if its been truly "De milled" and made inoperable then none of this stuff would matter, but a functional part...I'd say you betcha.

I would LIKE to think though on the parts kits that need a friggin 10 ton press or a plasma cutter to get the friggin' things apart.....and you dont own niether.....you LAWYER might be able to argue you outta the inadvertant jam............

Ahhhh, just turn that short barrel into something usefull, add a mothpiece and call it a SNORKEL:p

Metalhead