PDA

View Full Version : Whyare some people/FFLs more skittish about off-list AKs than ARs?


TonyNorCal
03-10-2006, 1:47 PM
Is there a logical reason to be more skittish about off-list AK receivers than ARs? Or is it just the ingrained perception we as Americans have of the AK being the weapon of the Soviet Union, the Evil Empire, and mean terrorists and Jihadists? Seems the AK is largely symbolic in that way.

But wasn't Harrot about an AK?
Why logically would an AK be any different than an AR? Provided they are offlist and built characteristic compliant?

Is it just a bad juju thing?

TonyM
03-10-2006, 2:07 PM
Maybe because just about every picture of Osama Bin Laden has an AK in the frame.

??

EBWhite
03-10-2006, 2:10 PM
Yes, They are scared since AK's are terroist weapons of mass dysfunction.

Couple of my ffl's are not worried about AK's but GUNRunners in Duarte is very very wierd about them...Some guy asked if he could get a receiver though them and they said no (which is fine) but then he said he wanted to build a saiga and they said we dont talk about AK's and building an AK is illegal because you cannot make an AK type action according to the DOJ...You need a building license. When i corrected him, he said well im not sure just go to the DOJ site...AK was harrot and they are legal, just no evil features!

Steve G
03-10-2006, 2:35 PM
Most FFL's / Gunsmith's wont touch the AK or AR series lowers. These are going to be assualt weapons any day.

tenpercentfirearms
03-10-2006, 2:59 PM
There is no logical reason for it. I just didn't want to deal with AKs because I don't know anything about them and so it is harder for me to understand what is a receiver and what is not. Rather than make a ton of money off of you guys by doing a little research, I just said no. Now I am just plain done with lower receivers. I did what I could and now I am done worrying about the DOJ and all the fun and games. I will just sell parts and take care of your needs there. The good news is since I helped get it started, many little guys jumped in and took my place so my stepping out doesn't hurt you too much. That is how I justify it anyway.

Charliegone
03-10-2006, 3:28 PM
My ffl will touch an ak receiver as long as it is not reminescent of the receivers on the list (you know like the saiga offlist ones)

bwiese
03-10-2006, 3:29 PM
Some of it is my fault.

When I wrote orig version of the FAQ I did not think there was any way to have a fixed-mag AK design, and I had not thought of a 'bolt-action' non-semiauto AK. I wanted to ensure that there indeed was a 'path to legitimacy'
I was wrong...

...A nonsemiauto AK with no gas system, and a blocked barrel gas port, would indeed be legal as it's not a "semiautomatic centerfire rifle with detachable magazine and <evil features list>".

Also, unfortunately AK setups come in more flavors and variations of compatibility than do ARs so even despite receiver availibilty some skill is required in assembling - and knowing what the right parts kit to match your receiver is....

EBWhite
03-10-2006, 3:54 PM
Shame on you Bill.. j/k

Don't forget, put your AK together with no evil features and a detach mag..no pistol grip , etc...

mblat
03-10-2006, 4:02 PM
Shame on you Bill.. j/k

Don't forget, put your AK together with no evil features and a detach mag..no pistol grip , etc...

I second that! Absolute shame on you!!!!!:)

I still don't quite get why are you insisting on blocking gas port. Why AK+pinned mag is less legal than AR+pinned mag?
After all if the only question is - how do you load it - the simplest answer is "by filed stripping". In my expirience, after some training, it take only 7 seconds to take it apart and another 10 to put it back together....

JHC
03-10-2006, 4:30 PM
Alot of the older guys I know don't like AK's because they were "commie" weapons, mayby thats the case with some of the FFLs. I built mine with a fixed mag and I field strip to load, my fingers are too mangled to try to load through the ejection port.

bwiese
03-10-2006, 4:35 PM
I second that! Absolute shame on you!!!!!:)

I still don't quite get why are you insisting on blocking gas port. Why AK+pinned mag is less legal than AR+pinned mag?

From what I know of AKs, I don't see any practical use of an AK with a pinned mag - you can't 'scissors' it open to feed the mag like you can an AR, and the action gets in the way even if it could.

I think, to protect from any conceivably possible issues of intent, etc., you want a path to a reasonably operational weapon. A gasless AK with blocked/covered gas port allows detachable mag use along with pistol grip etc.

A gripless AK might be OK legally.

After all if the only question is - how do you load it - the simplest answer is "by filed stripping". In my expirience, after some training, it take only 7 seconds to take it apart and another 10 to put it back together....

OK, that's pretty impressive. Didn't think of that.

mblat
03-10-2006, 4:45 PM
Alot of the older guys I know don't like AK's because they were "commie" weapons, mayby thats the case with some of the FFLs. I


That is truly smart.... I guess I should rid of my HK because it is "nazi" weapon..:rolleyes:

icormba
03-10-2006, 4:54 PM
I still don't quite get why are you insisting on blocking gas port. Why AK+pinned mag is less legal than AR+pinned mag?
After all if the only question is - how do you load it - the simplest answer is "by filed stripping". In my expirience, after some training, it take only 7 seconds to take it apart and another 10 to put it back together....

That's a VERY good question! And I will attempt to answer it since I asked about the legality of this method over the summer...

1) I have a ton of legally owned pre-2000 ban AK 30rd mags (I think 10-15 of them?)
Building a NON semi-auto will allow me to use these mags.

2) The Look! building a NON-semi auto will look identical to a Real AK because I can use the 30rd'er. Pinning a 10 rounder, while functional, just doesn't look right... i.e. "not that evil".

3) Shooting a NON semi-auto BOLT action with a 30rd mag or even a 10 rd mag is just easier at a rifle range that only allows 2-3 seconds between shots anyway.

4) You don't need US made parts replacement!

5) If I didn't already have all these mags... I'd build the pinned version.

6)Safety
"In my expirience, after some training, it take only 7 seconds to take it apart and another 10 to put it back together"

Does this mean that a round is chambered while putting it back together? Or do you need to put your finger on the top round while you put the bolt and bolt carrier in the reciever so the top round doesn't chamber? If it's chambered while you put it back together... sometimes you need to slam that top cover back on to get it in place, not always... but sometimes and I'd be scared of that method. but that's me.

icormba
03-10-2006, 5:04 PM
That is truly smart.... I guess I should rid of my HK because it is "nazi" weapon..:rolleyes:

HECKLER & KOCH is from the POST nazi era...
Most AK's had been built During the "commie" era...

So while the original comment against getting an AK because it's a commie gun is silly... it is still a "commie" gun.

mblat
03-10-2006, 5:08 PM
That's a VERY good question! And I will attempt to answer it since I asked about the legality of this method over the summer...

1) I have a ton of legally owned pre-2000 ban AK 30rd mags (I think 10-15 of them?)
Building a NON semi-auto will allow me to use these mags.

2) The Look! building a NON-semi auto will look identical to a Real AK because I can use the 30rd'er. Pinning a 10 rounder, while functional, just doesn't look right... i.e. "not that evil".

3) Shooting a NON semi-auto BOLT action with a 30rd mag or even a 10 rd mag is just easier at a rifle range that only allows 2-3 seconds between shots anyway.

4) You don't need US made parts replacement!

5) If I didn't already have all these mags... I'd build the pinned version.

6)Safety
"In my expirience, after some training, it take only 7 seconds to take it apart and another 10 to put it back together"

Does this mean that a round is chambered while putting it back together? Or do you need to put your finger on the top round while you put the bolt and bolt carrier in the reciever so the top round doesn't chamber? If it's chambered while you put it back together... sometimes you need to slam that top cover back on to get it in place, not always... but sometimes and I'd be scared of that method. but that's me.

Actually that is an excellent points you are making. And no, I don't have any 30 rounders..:mad:

Builder
03-10-2006, 5:13 PM
So while the original comment against getting an AK because it's a commie gun is silly... it is still a "commie" gun.
And that is exactly what makes it so EVIL.:D