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petey
03-10-2006, 9:02 AM
Posted on Fri, Mar. 10, 2006
Hawthorne anti-violence activist arrested on gun suspicion
Associated Press

HAWTHORNE, Calif. - The founder of an anti-gang center called "No Guns" was arrested after police said they found a gun in his home and his son, a reputed gang member nicknamed "Little Weasel," was taken into custody in connection with a home-invasion robbery.

Hector Marroquin Sr., 49, a former gang leader, was arrested Thursday for investigation of being an ex-felon in possession of a firearm, said Hawthorne police Lt. Tom Jester. Police found the gun when they raided his home looking for his son, 31-year-old Hector Marroquin Jr., Jester said.

The son was arrested for investigation of home-invasion robbery stemming from a December crime in Hawthorne, Jester said.

Marroquin Sr., a heavily tattooed and once-feared gang leader, opened his No Guns Center in 1998 after a 2-year-old boy was killed by a stray bullet. He said at the time that his goal was to create a place that would promote gang intervention and violence prevention.

The center started a youth soccer club, other recreation programs and job training.

Marroquin Sr., however, was unable to keep his son from joining a gang. In 1996, the elder Marroquin was shot while trying to protect his son from a beating.

Both men had bailed out of jail by Friday morning, Lt. Keith Kauffman said.

Neither has a listed telephone number.


Here's the NOGUNS website: http://noguns.org/
Hasn't been updated in awhile.

6172crew
03-10-2006, 9:08 AM
LOL, Thats rich- ex-felons dont follow the gun laws already in place?

What a azzclown, did anyone forward this to the brady bunch?:D

Does this mean he cant get funds from the state to promote his home invasion safe house.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/los_angeles_metro/la-me-profile18jul18,1,1077753,full.story?coll=la-commun-los_angeles_metro

mow
03-10-2006, 9:15 AM
What would really suck is if the gun was his son's and he is now paying for his son's mistake.:eek:

petey
03-10-2006, 9:21 AM
I'll bet all of Tookie William's supporters are rushing down there to help this guy out.
"He was framed!!!"

sinner
03-10-2006, 9:27 AM
Hahaha, this pleases me on several different levels :D

RRangel
03-10-2006, 9:36 AM
Is this really a surpise? Why "no guns"? Why not NO GANGS or NO DIRTBAGS?

Classic case of denial.

gmcem50
03-10-2006, 9:58 AM
What would really suck is if the gun was his son's and he is now paying for his son's mistake.:eek:

I would not suck; it would be sweet poetic justice. :D

That jerkoff wants to take my guns from me? Let him rot in prison. ALthough he probably will not. It's only law abiding guys like me who are a danger to society with our guns.

icormba
03-10-2006, 11:10 AM
How the HELL can you be the founder of a Anti-Gang Center and you can't even keep your own damn kid out of a gang?

24thMED
03-10-2006, 11:19 AM
[sarcasm on]Just another example of how well the laws we have now are working. Thank god the DOJ and legislature have their finger on the pulse of society and the laws they have put in place are keeping guns out of the bad guys hands.

Of course, this is just an isolated incident.....[sarcasm off]

anotherted
03-10-2006, 11:20 AM
How the HELL can you be the founder of a Anti-Gang Center and you can't even keep your own damn kid out of a gang?

Its the thought that counts.:rolleyes:

TonyM
03-10-2006, 11:23 AM
How the HELL can you be the founder of a Anti-Gang Center and you can't even keep your own damn kid out of a gang?

He doesn't bring his work home with him. ?? :D

Clodbuster
03-10-2006, 12:26 PM
The true irony ---

"Ex-gang member" Dad want's to disarm people. His son want to rob them...
What a great father. Taking away people's guns so that his son is less likely to get shot while commiting a crime.

Clod


LOL, Thats rich- ex-felons dont follow the gun laws already in place?

What a azzclown, did anyone forward this to the brady bunch?:D

Does this mean he cant get funds from the state to promote his home invasion safe house.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/los_angeles_metro/la-me-profile18jul18,1,1077753,full.story?coll=la-commun-los_angeles_metro

artherd
03-10-2006, 1:10 PM
I've got a suspiction that the gun may have been his kid's. Still poetic justice coming out of an over-reaching law that could have been used against any of us. (er, well, since we're not felons, then maybe apply it to the same standards of unregistered AW prosecution, same simple-posession bull****.)

How the HELL can you be the founder of a Anti-Gang Center and you can't even keep your own damn kid out of a gang?
Classic transferance. Eaiser to fix the rest of the world's problems than it is to fix your own.

chickenfried
03-10-2006, 1:14 PM
One "reformed"thief I talked to, also didn't think people should have guns. :rolleyes: The true irony ---

"Ex-gang member" Dad want's to disarm people. His son want to rob them...
What a great father. Taking away people's guns so that his son is less likely to get shot while commiting a crime.

Clod

slowjonn
03-10-2006, 1:48 PM
One "reformed"thief I talked to, also didn't think people should have guns. :rolleyes:

Doesn't that make more sense? I mean really, why should good honest people have a gun? The state is doing such a good job reforming these criminals that there is no need to arm oneself. Thank God we have the legislature and DOJ to make sure we become a gun-free state. I feel safer already. Now if you will excuse me, I have to get back to loading my legal hi-cap magazines. :D

grammaton76
03-10-2006, 2:43 PM
One "reformed"thief I talked to, also didn't think people should have guns. :rolleyes:

I think the deal is that once someone has a felony tag and can't own guns, they get resentful that there are people who still have the rights which they've given up.

Charliegone
03-10-2006, 4:24 PM
I'm not even going to say anything...you guys said what I was feeling already.:D

Jarhead4
03-10-2006, 4:38 PM
If you think about it, we already have an experiment with a society without guns. It is called prison. And some how they still manage to get weapons, and not all of them are home made either. Also, they still commit murders.

If you ever meet a prison guard from a State Pen, ask them if they feel safe walking amongst the general population. Of the ones I know, they donít.


Anyone that thinks that banning guns is going to reduce crime is a fool!!! Anyone that thinks the police can protect you is living in a dream world!!!

Iíll get off my soapbox now.

icormba
03-10-2006, 5:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icormba
How the HELL can you be the founder of a Anti-Gang Center and you can't even keep your own damn kid out of a gang?

He doesn't bring his work home with him. ?? :D

That was funny!! :)

6172crew
03-10-2006, 5:24 PM
If you think about it, we already have an experiment with a society without guns. It is called prison. And some how they still manage to get weapons, and not all of them are home made either. Also, they still commit murders.

If you ever meet a prison guard from a State Pen, ask them if they feel safe walking amongst the general population. Of the ones I know, they donít.


Anyone that thinks that banning guns is going to reduce crime is a fool!!! Anyone that thinks the police can protect you is living in a dream world!!!

Iíll get off my soapbox now.

By all means, please continue. ;) Marines think a like.
Semper Gumby

trbon8r
03-10-2006, 6:07 PM
Posted on Fri, Mar. 10, 2006
Hawthorne anti-violence activist arrested on gun suspicion
Associated Press

HAWTHORNE, Calif. - The founder of an anti-gang center called "No Guns" was arrested after police said they found a gun in his home and his son, a reputed gang member nicknamed "Little Weasel," was taken into custody in connection with a home-invasion robbery.

Hector Marroquin Sr., 49, a former gang leader, was arrested Thursday for investigation of being an ex-felon in possession of a firearm, said Hawthorne police Lt. Tom Jester. Police found the gun when they raided his home looking for his son, 31-year-old Hector Marroquin Jr., Jester said.

The son was arrested for investigation of home-invasion robbery stemming from a December crime in Hawthorne, Jester said.

Marroquin Sr., a heavily tattooed and once-feared gang leader, opened his No Guns Center in 1998 after a 2-year-old boy was killed by a stray bullet. He said at the time that his goal was to create a place that would promote gang intervention and violence prevention.

The center started a youth soccer club, other recreation programs and job training.

Marroquin Sr., however, was unable to keep his son from joining a gang. In 1996, the elder Marroquin was shot while trying to protect his son from a beating.

Both men had bailed out of jail by Friday morning, Lt. Keith Kauffman said.

Neither has a listed telephone number.


Here's the NOGUNS website: http://noguns.org/
Hasn't been updated in awhile.


Is there any way you can post the actual AP link to this article? I would like to forward this to a pro-gun friend that teaches a criminal justice class. I think he would find it interesting.

6172crew
03-10-2006, 7:51 PM
Is there any way you can post the actual AP link to this article? I would like to forward this to a pro-gun friend that teaches a criminal justice class. I think he would find it interesting.

I did a google search on his name and came up this and another LA times hack job on his peace nic crap.

Brass Balls
03-10-2006, 7:57 PM
It's just not right, there's a law against that. Maybe another law should be passed because the felons would probably pay attention to another law. :rolleyes:

jdberger
03-11-2006, 1:35 AM
Anyone go to the website and look around? There doesn't seem to be anything there.

Also, despite the name, NO GUNS doesn't seem to be an outright grabber organization. It actually looks like they do some good. So why are you guys beating up on this guy. It looks to me like he's actually trying to do something good with his life.

Here is the article from the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/los_angeles_metro/la-me-profile18jul18,1,5705464.story?coll=la-commun-los_angeles_metro).

accordingtoome
03-11-2006, 2:08 AM
Once you choose that life you can't come back and play in the real world. :cool:

RRangel
03-11-2006, 7:03 AM
When someone names their organization "No Guns" that's good enough for me to criticize. When the problem is obvioulsy socially related especially when it comes to gangs why the name "No Guns"?

It's rather obvious. Once again someone is trying to deflect blame and point the finger towards inanimate objects as if guns are the reason gang members do what they do. This is the exact same tactic the gun grabbers use because it works. They've managed to accomplish what they have because our dumbed down masses have bought this garbage hook line and sinker.

When this organization changes their name to "No Gangs" then maybe I'll take them seriously.

Anyone go to the website and look around? There doesn't seem to be anything there.

Also, despite the name, NO GUNS doesn't seem to be an outright grabber organization. It actually looks like they do some good. So why are you guys beating up on this guy. It looks to me like he's actually trying to do something good with his life.

Here is the article from the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/los_angeles_metro/la-me-profile18jul18,1,5705464.story?coll=la-commun-los_angeles_metro).

Charliegone
03-11-2006, 9:55 AM
I agree Ramon. If they name their organization like "no violence" or "no gangs" , something that ACTUALLY has to do with their problem I would take them more seriously. With a title like "no guns" it becomes reminescent of gun control groups. If gun control groups told the truth and not rely on bs messages and lies, I would take them more seriously...but they make a**es out of themselves so..

gmcem50
03-11-2006, 12:22 PM
When someone names their organization "No Guns" that's good enough for me to criticize. When the problem is obvioulsy socially related especially when it comes to gangs why the name "No Guns"?

It's rather obvious. Once again someone is trying to deflect blame and point the finger towards inanimate objects as if guns are the reason gang members do what they do. This is the exact same tactic the gun grabbers use because it works. They've managed to accomplish what they have because our dumbed down masses have bought this garbage hook line and sinker.

When this organization changes their name to "No Gangs" then maybe I'll take them seriously.

+1000!!!!!

jdberger
03-11-2006, 3:38 PM
When this organization changes their name to "No Gangs" then maybe I'll take them seriously.
But there already is a group called "No Gangs" (http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps9890/lps9890/www.duila.org/project.htm)

Perhaps a poor moniker, but nothing I've seen says that these guys were of the gun grabbing variety.

Once again, it looks like this No Guns organization was doing some good.

Once you choose that life you can't come back and play in the real world. I disagree completely. Is there no such thing as regret? Redemption? Rehabilitation? Growing up? There are scads of folks in this world who were once reprobates who have managed to turn their lives around. Dismissing them out of hand is folly.

wolfsong
03-11-2006, 4:23 PM
But there already is a group called "No Gangs" (http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps9890/lps9890/www.duila.org/project.htm)

Perhaps a poor moniker, but nothing I've seen says that these guys were of the gun grabbing variety.

Once again, it looks like this No Guns organization was doing some good.

I disagree completely. Is there no such thing as regret? Redemption? Rehabilitation? Growing up? There are scads of folks in this world who were once reprobates who have managed to turn their lives around. Dismissing them out of hand is folly.
If he had regret, or was redeemed, or had rehabilitated, or grown up, if he had turned his life around, he wouldn't have a gang-banging 31 year old son living under his roof, thereby condoning his son's behavior, enabling his punk son to lead a life of crime. The fruit does not fall far from the tree. And the mom had meth on her? There's no regret or redemption in this family. While his storefront organization may have served a good purpose in some way, he is still a second class citizen and always will be. He should accept the consequences of his past choices and demonstrate that he has developed past his criminal ways if he ever wants any credibility again. He's looking at a minimum of 10 years without the possibility of parole just on the gun possesion charge alone. Wonder how many strikes he has? Lock him up and keep him there, along with his son. And we have plenty of room at the women's prison that I work at. The light is on and the door is always open, send her on over. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

RJ Dunn
03-11-2006, 4:24 PM
Like tookee. Lolololololololololololol

Charliegone
03-11-2006, 4:32 PM
If he had regret, or was redeemed, or had rehabilitated, or grown up, if he had turned his life around, he wouldn't have a gang-banging 31 year old son living under his roof, thereby condoning his son's behavior, enabling his punk son to lead a life of crime. The fruit does not fall far from the tree. And the mom had meth on her? There's no regret or redemption in this family. While his storefront organization may have served a good purpose in some way, he is still a second class citizen and always will be. He should accept the consequences of his past choices and demonstrate that he has developed past his criminal ways if he ever wants any credibility again. He's looking at a minimum of 10 years without the possibility of parole just on the gun possesion charge alone. Wonder how many strikes he has? Lock him up and keep him there, along with his son. And we have plenty of room at the women's prison that I work at. The light is on and the door is always open, send her on over. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

Agreed. Tough love is necessary sometimes. My brother also was involved in some gang activity. When my mother found out she said you either clean up or leave. That simple. Why couldn't his father do the same? I would not want a person living in my house who is involved in such things, especially with other children around! This guy should have taught his son to be responsible for his own actions. He's an adult NOT a kid! My brother had to find out the hard way. He wouldn't change his ways and nearly paid for it with his life. He got in a serious car accident (he wasn't driving, but his "friend" was under the influence of alcohol) and was in a coma for a month. My brother had to learn everything all over again after that. It wasn't easy for my mother or my brother, but that was the life he choose. Now he regrets ever doing those things like getting involved in gangs, drugs, etc. I've learned from his mistakes that having the wrong "friends" and doing bad things leads to nothing good.

jdberger
03-11-2006, 7:01 PM
If he had regret, or was redeemed, or had rehabilitated, or grown up, if he had turned his life around, he wouldn't have a gang-banging 31 year old son living under his roof, thereby condoning his son's behavior, enabling his punk son to lead a life of crime. The fruit does not fall far from the tree. And the mom had meth on her? There's no regret or redemption in this family. While his storefront organization may have served a good purpose in some way, he is still a second class citizen and always will be. He should accept the consequences of his past choices and demonstrate that he has developed past his criminal ways if he ever wants any credibility again. He's looking at a minimum of 10 years without the possibility of parole just on the gun possesion charge alone. Wonder how many strikes he has? Lock him up and keep him there, along with his son. And we have plenty of room at the women's prison that I work at. The light is on and the door is always open, send her on over. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

Can anyone finish the quote?

"Let he who is without sin _________ ____ _____ _____ "

I just thought that it was appropriate given the above closing.

Wolfsong, is it possible that you want this guy and his family in prison because you benefit financially from it? ;) [/sarcasm] I know that I get real happy when my clients get into pissing contests with folks. Means more $$ for me.

Really Wolfsong, no offense intended. Tongue in cheek!

wolfsong
03-11-2006, 7:44 PM
Can anyone finish the quote?

"Let he who is without sin _________ ____ _____ _____ "

I just thought that it was appropriate given the above closing.

Wolfsong, is it possible that you want this guy and his family in prison because you benefit financially from it? ;) [/sarcasm] I know that I get real happy when my clients get into pissing contests with folks. Means more $$ for me.

Really Wolfsong, no offense intended. Tongue in cheek!
jdberger, the bible addresses our behavior in society quite thoroughly, and to take one passage and apply it here is totally out of context. If you would like to engage in a theological discussion with me, I would be happy to do so. However, this is not the forum that I utilize for such discussions. If you would like to continue on that topic, PM me and I will give you the address to a web site so that we can take this further. Secondly, no offense intended on my part, but your sarcastic statement regarding the possibility of me wanting this family in prison for my own financial gain is ignorant and insulting, regardless of your intent. I have very good job security, thank you. No, Mr. Berger, my desire to see criminals such as these put in prison grows from wanting my children and grandchildren to live in a safer environment. I want the streets of any neighborhood to be rid of punkass, bullying, chickensh*ts that prey on innocent people. I want accountability from all who walk this earth, not liability. You quote the bible, yet you hide from the truth that the bible teaches. The bible is not a fairy tale story with a happy ending. There are no selected passages that can bail one out of the messes one gets ones self into. Man's law on earth is what we, as a society, are bound by the bible to follow. This wise guy and his immediate family have chosen not to follow this. So they should be removed from society until such time that they can be productive, law abiding citizens that can contribute to the good of mankind, not to the demise of civilized co-existance. There, how's that for preaching? I know, I know, I said I wasn't going to go there. As a Christian, I will forgive you for suggesting that my motives and intentions were selfserving and less than honorable. I would also caution you to think before making rash statements questioning the integrity of someone whom you do not know. It does nothing but inflame, and damages your credibility. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

SirMikeAlot
03-11-2006, 8:18 PM
:eek: Gosh!!!

jdberger
03-11-2006, 9:55 PM
:eek: Gosh!!!

Quite the smackdown, eh?;)

May I retort?

jdberger, the bible addresses our behavior in society quite thoroughly...It does. It also advocates some punishments that are a bit extreme and ghastly. Death for adultry? Some interesting dietary retrictions and other things that are perhaps more historical guideline than absolute edict.

It also happens to be allegorical. Timeless. And can be applied to many situations that didn't exactly exist in the times of robes and sandals. But I guess you can restrict your interpretation as much as you like.

No, Mr. Berger, my desire to see criminals such as these put in prison grows from wanting my children and grandchildren to live in a safer environment. I want the streets of any neighborhood to be rid of punkass, bullying, chickensh*ts that prey on innocent people. I want accountability from all who walk this earth, not liability. ... This wise guy and his immediate family have chosen not to follow this. So they should be removed from society until such time that they can be productive, law abiding citizens that can contribute to the good of mankind, not to the demise of civilized co-existance.
You apparently got a lot more out of the story than I did. What was the date the members of the family were convicted? Judge not...(or is that also out of context?).

As a Christian, I will forgive you for suggesting that my motives and intentions were selfserving and less than honorable. I would also caution you to think before making rash statements questioning the integrity of someone whom you do not know. It does nothing but inflame, and damages your credibility.
Let's try this. Doctors only make money when people are sick. Cops only make money when folks commit crimes. Prison guards don't have jobs if no one is sent to prison. Sorry that the sarcasm escaped you. I wallow in your forgiveness. As far as my credibility, impugn away. I'm sorry that you were offended.

I'm offering the other cheek - hope I'm not taking that out of context.

petey
03-11-2006, 10:39 PM
Per requests, here is the link to the story:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/14066309.htm

another article:
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/7882188/detail.html

wolfsong
03-12-2006, 12:04 AM
Quite the smackdown, eh?;)

May I retort?

It does. It also advocates some punishments that are a bit extreme and ghastly. Death for adultry? Some interesting dietary retrictions and other things that are perhaps more historical guideline than absolute edict.

It also happens to be allegorical. Timeless. And can be applied to many situations that didn't exactly exist in the times of robes and sandals. But I guess you can restrict your interpretation as much as you like.


You apparently got a lot more out of the story than I did. What was the date the members of the family were convicted? Judge not...(or is that also out of context?).


Let's try this. Doctors only make money when people are sick. Cops only make money when folks commit crimes. Prison guards don't have jobs if no one is sent to prison. Sorry that the sarcasm escaped you. I wallow in your forgiveness. As far as my credibility, impugn away. I'm sorry that you were offended.

I'm offering the other cheek - hope I'm not taking that out of context.Good evening, Mr. Berger. Do not confuse the Old Testament (the Lord's Law) with the New Testament (the Lord's Grace). Different times, and different instructions and teachings. As for getting more out of the story than you did, well, I read that the father was picked up on felony gun violations at the same time his son was arrested for a home invasion robbery, and the daughter (the original story said wife) was arrested for drug possesion. These are not old crimes that we're talking about. And yes, "judge not..." is out of context, or rather, incomplete. Read Matthew 7:1-2. I am quite willing to be judged in the same manner and by the same criterian that I am judging these people, if I were to commit the same crimes. Matthew does not tell us to NOT judge, the point being made here is that we are not to judge the inner motives of another, we are not to render a verdict based on prejudiced information. It also makes the point that as we judge, so shall God judge us. So, yeah, it's out of context. Now where in the bible does it say that criminals are not held accountable while on this earth, and that we should turn the other cheek and let them roam freely? As to doctors not making money unless his patients are sick, and that cops don't make money unless they are catching criminals, that is just silly. But I concur that if there weren't any criminals we wouldn't need prisons, and I would be working somewhere else. I wish that this were the case. We would all be better off. But that is not reality. With almost 34 million people in California, there is no shortage of bad guys and girls. A couple of more either way isn't going to make a difference in whether I have a job or not. I get paid the same if I watch over one inmate or 1000. I am not impugning your credibility, I am merely stating my opinion on how I percieve inflammatory statements. As for my having taken offense to your sarcastic ( your description, twice) comments, well, those are my feelings and I do not have to justify them to you or anyone else. You and I have never met, so I cannot take it upon myself to question your character or intregrity. And I have not done so. I have not mocked or made any derogatory comments or jokes about your opinions or views or what you do for a living. I merely shared my own views on my job and about the community that I live in, and my own idealistic wishes. And yet you make a joke about wallowing in my forgiveness, while saying that we should all forgive! See what I mean about spoken words and credibility? I was sincere when I invited you to discuss this elsewhere. I am not looking for confrontation, but I do enjoy a lively debate/discussion. I, too, am turning the other cheek in regards to our exchange, but I am not backing down from defending myself. I stand by my words. Peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

jdberger
03-12-2006, 1:08 AM
I am quite willing to be judged in the same manner and by the same criterian that I am judging these people ... we are not to render a verdict based on prejudiced information.
Not convicted
Not convicted
Not convicted - so the above statement either contradicts itself or you are willing to be convicted based on an incomplete fact gathering process.

Is it possible - probable that the media didn't get all the facts correct? You are convicting them without all the facts. Without giving them the benefit of a fair trial in which they would have the opportunity to tell their part of the story.

Try out this scenario. Troublemaker ex-gangster is irritating the local cops. So cops decide to do a search 'cause son was 'involved' in a robbery. And then they found a gun. And surprise, the young daughter had a little dope on her. And did you know that the dad was "heavily tatooed"? (All of the stories seem to think that is important).Did it happen that way? Maybe, maybe not. But it is unfair to convict the guy before he gets a trial.
Doncha Think?

Check out the original thread about the guy arrested on weapons charges in Walnut Creek. Why are folks here adamant about sending this family to the slam - do not pass Go - without a trial, taking the media version as pure fact..........
But in the Walnut Creek case - the media obviously botched the story and the cops did an illegal search, etc.? Funny, that.

So yes, since yours was the most inflammatory post, Lock him up and keep him there, along with his son. And we have plenty of room at the women's prison that I work at. The light is on and the door is always open, send her on over.I'm calling you on it.

Finally, apparently you are not getting the doctor joke - most doctors I know would be thrilled if sickness ended and they were put out of a job - as I'm sure you would be if there were no more criminals to incarcerate. Thus the irony - the joke.:rolleyes:

adamsreeftank
03-12-2006, 2:13 AM
Cummon guys.

God gave us the 10 commandments and the bill of rights.
Let's just leave it at that.

Seriously, this might be one for Ramone to exercise his almighty powers on.

wolfsong
03-12-2006, 3:03 AM
Cummon guys.

God gave us the 10 commandments and the bill of rights.
Let's just leave it at that.

Seriously, this might be one for Ramone to exercise his almighty powers on.
No need for that on my part. If Mr. Berger would like to continue this exchange, we can take it elsewhere and give this thread back to everyone else. He and I have different takes on this. He has given me cause to rethink some of my positions and that's what discussions should accomplish. This has picked up in intensity, so for the good of this topic I'm going to take a breather. I don't see any good coming out of either of our stubborn stances. O.K., from my stubborn stance.:o To Mr. Berger: no hard feelings here, thanks for the stimulating conversation. I hope that the feeling is mutual. If not, so be it. Maybe we can discuss this again, when this case is said and done. Until then, peace and God bless, Wolfsong.

jdberger
03-12-2006, 2:09 PM
Never any hard feelings - as someone I admire on another forum used to say, "It's only the internet." Happy Sunday, Wolfsong.:)

wolfsong
03-12-2006, 2:28 PM
jdberger,back at ya. Wolfsong:cool:

stator
03-12-2006, 4:05 PM
I betcha that the "No Guns" center was run with taxpayer money!