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moab
05-11-2010, 12:18 PM
This is the fourth legal type question I've asked and not gotten an answer to. I posted this to the build section. No answer. :confused:

Not b*tching. Just trying to cover my bases. :)

Trying to confirm what I have deciphered from the legal ak chart. As I read it you CAN NOT put a preban 30rd mag on an AK. Or use a detachable mag. Unless you use a Monsterman Grip. As it is then an illegal assault weapon.

Further, if you want to use a pistol grip. You have to then use a non-detachable 10rd mag.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e250/moabak/ScreenHunter_02Dec110233.jpg

elenius
05-11-2010, 12:25 PM
Correct.

thedrickel
05-11-2010, 12:28 PM
You don't have to use a MonsterMan grip, you just can't attach a pistol grip, thumbhole stock, flash hider, fwd pistol grip, folding or collapsing stock, etc.

So - no pistol grip is fine. Solartac grip wrap on a pistol grip is fine. Non-thumbhole (filled in hole) is fine. Just NO EVIL FEATURES if you want to remove your magazines without a tool, or use a hi-cap mag.

CSACANNONEER
05-11-2010, 1:41 PM
thedrikel is correct. The other thing that you need to be aware of is that if you happen to have a mag lock of any sort, it needs to be removed after all the evil features are removed but, before installing a +10 round mag in your rifle.

Even if you don't have a PG, FH, Folding stock, etc., it would not be legal to use a +10 round mag with a centerfire, semi auto rifle with a magazine lock on it.

goodlookin1
05-11-2010, 2:34 PM
Slap on an AK bullet button and put any evil feature you want on there (but it still cannot hold more than 10 rounds at any time). Otherwise, you have to have a featureless build if you want what the law considers a "detachable magazine"......that means NO flash hider, NO pistol grip, NO forward grip, NO folding/collapsible stock, etc....essentially nothing fun.

CSACANNONEER
05-11-2010, 7:42 PM
Slap on an AK bullet button and put any evil feature you want on there (but it still cannot hold more than 10 rounds at any time). Otherwise, you have to have a featureless build if you want what the law considers a "detachable magazine"......that means NO flash hider, NO pistol grip, NO forward grip, NO folding/collapsible stock, etc....essentially nothing fun.

I'll take my 75 round drums over your flash hider, PG, forward PG, folding stock, etc. and mag lock for "fun" any day of the week.

moab
05-12-2010, 12:44 AM
While we're on the subject. What exception to 12276.1 (a)(3) allows for the mechanical locking out of an AK underfolder? Like with a radiator hose clamp.

SJgunguy24
05-12-2010, 12:55 AM
While we're on the subject. What exception to 12276.1 (a)(3) allows for the mechanical locking out of an AK underfolder? Like with a radiator hose clamp.

Pretty much anything that disables the use of it as a folding stock. Now thats only for overall length or you build it as a featureless gun. If the you want the folder to work then you must have a minimum of 30" in the smallest configuration.

moab
05-12-2010, 12:06 PM
What provision in the law allows you to do that though? Allows you to lock the folder out and count it as part of the overall length.

On the chart above it says that the overall length is only counted with the folder closed.

I want to print out all the laws so I can keep them in my gun cases. As they pertain to each build.

goodlookin1
05-12-2010, 12:54 PM
I'll take my 75 round drums over your flash hider, PG, forward PG, folding stock, etc. and mag lock for "fun" any day of the week.

I was under the impression that the law does NOT allow for more than 10 rounds in ANY magazine or drum, with or without a bullet button? An OLL with a bullet button simply allows you to have all the evil features, but you now have a "fixed" magazine. An OLL without a bullet button lets you have a detachable magazine, but takes away all the evil features. This has nothing to do with the 10 round capacity limit.

Is this not correct? I thought the law only allows for >10 round magazines/drums IF AND ONLY IF your Lower is registered as an assault weapon....

If this is FUD, please let me know cuz i'll change my setup right now :)

CSACANNONEER
05-12-2010, 12:59 PM
I was under the impression that the law does NOT allow for more than 10 rounds in ANY magazine or drum, with or without a bullet button? An OLL with a bullet button simply allows you to have all the evil features, but you now have a "fixed" magazine. An OLL without a bullet button lets you have a detachable magazine, but takes away all the evil features. This has nothing to do with the 10 round capacity limit.

Is this not correct? I thought the law only allows for >10 round magazines/drums IF AND ONLY IF your Lower is registered as an assault weapon....

If this is FUD, please let me know cuz i'll change my setup right now :)

The law allows you to use your legally owned magazines in any gun as long as you are not creating an unregistered AW by using them.

Please read these and then ask for an further clarification that you may need.

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

goodlookin1
05-12-2010, 1:11 PM
I am aware of the law:

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding PC section 12276, assault weapon shall also
mean the following: Rifles

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine CCR 11 5469 (a) and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip CCR 11 5469 (d)
(B) A thumbhole stock. CCR 11 5469 (e)
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor. CCR 11 5469 (b)
(F) A forward pistol grip. CCR 11 5469 (c)

OR

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

OR

(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less
than 30 inches.


In your own words:

The law allows you to use your legally owned magazines in any gun as long as you are not creating an unregistered AW by using them.

You are creating an Assault Rifle as per PC Section 12276.1 (a) (2), even by using your legally owned hi cap mags. Is there a different interpretation than this? Or maybe other sections of the law that exclude old pre-ban, legally purchased hi cap mags? I'm really not trying to be smart, just wanting to make sure I understand this correctly.....

Thanks.


EDIT: After reading PC Section 12020 (b) (19-29), I find no provision for using legally owned Hi-cap mags....although simple possession of originally owned, legally purchased hi-cap mag is not restricted. This section of code talks only about Selling, Giving, Lending, Transferring, the Return of, Purchasing and Importing hi-cap mags. Having said that, 12276.1 is clear that even with a fixed mag, any semiauto centerfire rifle that can accept more than 10 rounds is considered to be an Assault Weapon.....and there is no provision made for pre-ban, hi cap, legally owned mags not turning the semiauto centerfire rifle into an Assault Weapon.

CSACANNONEER
05-12-2010, 3:28 PM
I am aware of the law:




In your own words:



You are creating an Assault Rifle as per PC Section 12276.1 (a) (2), even by using your legally owned hi cap mags. Is there a different interpretation than this? Or maybe other sections of the law that exclude old pre-ban, legally purchased hi cap mags? I'm really not trying to be smart, just wanting to make sure I understand this correctly.....

Thanks.


EDIT: After reading PC Section 12020 (b) (19-29), I find no provision for using legally owned Hi-cap mags....although simple possession of originally owned, legally purchased hi-cap mag is not restricted. This section of code talks only about Selling, Giving, Lending, Transferring, the Return of, Purchasing and Importing hi-cap mags. Having said that, 12276.1 is clear that even with a fixed mag, any semiauto centerfire rifle that can accept more than 10 rounds is considered to be an Assault Weapon.....and there is no provision made for pre-ban, hi cap, legally owned mags not turning the semiauto centerfire rifle into an Assault Weapon.

You are right that a centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine of over ten rounds would be an AW. So, you can not use +10 round mags in any BB, P50, Radlock, etc. equipt rifle. However, I don't understand how you seem to think that a centerfire rifle with a detachable magazine and none of these:

(A) A pistol grip CCR 11 5469 (d)
(B) A thumbhole stock. CCR 11 5469 (e)
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor. CCR 11 5469 (b)
(F) A forward pistol grip. CCR 11 5469 (c)

would be an AW if you used a +10 round mag. It is very obvious to me that it would not be. So, go enjoy your +10 round mags in a featureless rifle!

CHS
05-12-2010, 5:07 PM
The entire point of people running featureless rifles is so that they can continue to use their lawfully owned hi-cap mags.

Otherwise, if they were still restricted to 10, most people would probably choose to go with evil features and a maglock.

Harrison_Bergeron
05-12-2010, 5:13 PM
12276.1 (a)(2) says a fixed magazine cannot hold more than 10 rounds. If the mag is not fixed the code does not apply.

The same goes for fixing a folder, if the folder does not fold, then it is not a folder, and the code does not apply.

I am aware of the law:

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding PC section 12276, assault weapon shall also
mean the following: Rifles

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine CCR 11 5469 (a) and any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip CCR 11 5469 (d)
(B) A thumbhole stock. CCR 11 5469 (e)
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor. CCR 11 5469 (b)
(F) A forward pistol grip. CCR 11 5469 (c)

OR

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

OR

(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less
than 30 inches.

HotRails
05-12-2010, 6:16 PM
Back to the OP, there are some stickies at the top of the gunsmithing section that cover AK builds as well that may be of some help. I just noticed that in the thread title you had the word "build", so I am assuming you plan on building your rifle from a flat or commercial reciever?

goodlookin1
05-13-2010, 8:43 AM
Thanks for the clarification, guys. I cant believe that the writers of this code missed this hole in the law. Good thing!


would be an AW if you used a +10 round mag. It is very obvious to me that it would not be. So, go enjoy your +10 round mags in a featureless rifle!
I would....if I had any legally owned hi-cap mags (I dont have any hi-cap mags for the record). I was late into the gun game....long after these ridiculous restrictions came about.



Otherwise, if they were still restricted to 10, most people would probably choose to go with evil features and a maglock.
Precisely why I went the full-featured route. I thought the only advantage of the featureless was to have a thumb-releasable 10 round magazine....now I know why people go the featureless route! New B's like me will probably always go the maglock route, being that if they obtain a hi-cap mag, they can't legally use it anyways because they obtained it after the law went into effect in 2000.