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View Full Version : Wow, DOJ processed my COE in less than a week


TonyNorCal
03-09-2006, 4:55 PM
Well, I must say, I am impressed. The DOJ processed my Certificate of Eligibility application in less than a week. I had my live scan fingerprints done on Feb. 27th and sent in the application that same day. My application was processed and issued (dated) on Monday and I received it today. Not too shabby.

So for those who are curious...what is a COE?
A COE is a state certification that basically means they run a background check and certify there is nothing prohibiting you from owning or possessing firearms. It's good for a year. I wonder if the background check is more comprehensive than a standard DROS.

Here's what it does statutes posted below)...
1.) Allows you to be exempt from the one handgun per month rule.

2.) Allows you to cash and carry C&R firearms provided you also have a C&R license.
According to statue (posted below) and according to the DOJ (I called and asked and have a name, number) these exempt C&Rs include both long guns 50 years of age and under AND handguns. Big 5 does allow this (obviusly they only sell long guns). This is in their company binder of store regs for firearms sales. You may need to convince a manager to read their own regs. You are still required to pay DROS. This cash and carry is helpful say in a circumstance that you make the rounds of 3 to 4 Big 5s on Mosin patrol and don't wish to come back should you find something you like. Also, say you're at a store 2 hours away...who wants to make a return trip.

(Cali's greater than 50 year rule applies to private sales within Cali and ordering from out of state. Whether it would apply to ordering from a dealer within state I am unclear.)

3.) It's part of the required paperwork for any FFL1 license applicant (I may wish to apply for this at some point).

And subjectively...
*If I ever get around the applying for my concealed carry it's something I'll include. Seems to lend an air of legitimacy.

*And, when I together my binder of statutues/documents to take around with me when I go shoot my offlist ARs/AKs it is something official looking that might provide an extra measure of confidence in any law enforcement officer who isn't clear on the lower situation. This may be silly on my part, but I just feel that if I know and have the DOJ memo, letters, and the statutes relevant to the lower situation and also have a COE there it may help sway any sticky situation. My binder will have my COE, C&R (which is a federal license), and all the above info. It just seems more 'official'. For example, the female officer who scanned my prints kept referring to it as a 'firearms permit'. Although, it's not directly relevant.

Ok, so getting the COE involved printing out this form...

Then you go to a livescan facility and have your prints scanned. It's a neat, CSI type scanner. They scan all fingers, thumbs, and the side of some fingers. So it's pretty comprehensive. I guess I'd better wear gloves if I commit and crimes now lol, I am solidly in the system from all angles. (Actually my prints are already there courtesy of the military). So my scan was done at the local police station. The machine is located right in front of all the holding cells. And the female officers takes your hand and holds it on the scanner...and you're looking at the bars and cells...so you feel kinda like a perp. But, she was very professional and nice. She did ask me 'what do you need a firearms permit for?' though. To which I answered I am a collector, etc. Total cost was 93 dollars.

$32 to DOJ for fingerprint processing fee
$24 to the FBI " " "
$15 for the livescan fee
$22 for the DOJ to process the application (guess they double dip with 2 fees lol)

Yearly renewl is $22 with no other fees or need to get re-scanned

Ok relevant statutes (I cut and pasted the relevant parts, so if you look up the statutes these sections are all spread out). Law schools really ought to focus on clear writing (but that's another topic).

Waiver of 1 handgun per month
Within section 12072
...
(9)(A) No person shall make an application to purchase more than one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within any 30-day period.
(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any of the following:
...
(ix) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.
(licensed collector means C&R)
-------------------------------
No waiting period for C&Rs
Within 12078
...
(t)(1) The waiting period described in Sections 12071 or 12072 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, by a dealer to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071. On the date that the delivery, sale, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 12077.

(Note that this does NOT specify that the C&R needs to meet Cali's greater than 50 year rule. Nor does it specify that it needs to be a long gun. Per this section a C&R + COE allows you to cash and carry any C&R long or handgun.)

----------------------------------------
(The following is not relevant to a COE or C&R license, but I include it anyway).

Cali's greater than 50 year rule applies to the private sale of a long gun from one private party to another. It is the section which immediately proceeds the one above. Notice that these type of sales are only for long guns greater than 50 years of age (no handguns)

(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

Santa Cruz Armory
03-09-2006, 7:06 PM
Thanks TonyNorCal, I was on the fence about getting mine but now I'm sending it in! I've had it filled out for a while.

Great write up! it was very informative.:)

capitol
03-09-2006, 7:22 PM
Nice write up and thanks for sharing.

EBWhite
03-09-2006, 8:01 PM
thanks for sharing.

If you have a CR, i thought it was cash and carry buying over the net and such?

TonyNorCal
03-09-2006, 8:08 PM
thanks for sharing.

If you have a CR, i thought it was cash and carry buying over the net and such?

By cash and carry I mean walk out of a Cali store (FFL 1 dealer) with firearms in hand. To order over the net all you need is a C&R. However, ordering over the net you are restricted to no handguns and rifles greater than 50 years of age. While with a COE and C&R in a Cali store you can cash and carry any C&R. Leave it to Cali to make this all simple:rolleyes: .

wilit
03-09-2006, 10:17 PM
Since I'm a new home owner, I think my firearms purchasing power may be curbed for a while. But if I get back some monthly disposable cash, I'm definately going this route.

losangeles
03-09-2006, 10:47 PM
Congrats to you! I got mine in a week earlier in the year and was happy about that.

However, I'm still waiting from my C&R from ATF and I've just passed 2 months and still counting. My COE won't help me much in my case without the C&R.

Bruce
03-09-2006, 11:12 PM
I'm happy for you.:) You now have permission from the State to exercise you Second Ammendment rights... or at least some of your rights.

Viagrow
03-11-2006, 12:43 PM
Tony,

Congrats, glad to hear all went well.

BPA
03-13-2006, 6:28 PM
Were did you get the COE paperwork?

spunk2
03-14-2006, 10:21 AM
I wish Cali would go to how Arizona and a lot of other states are. No waiting period at all. I live in Arizona now. I wish I could move back to CA. I know it may seem, initially, like too much. Sometimes the waiting period can seem to stop crimes of passion. And its true a few people have died from someone buying a gun and 3 days later killing someone. But a quite a few people have died while waiting to buy a gun, during thier state mandated waiting period. I saw a list somewhere that was pretty big. Full of people that had purchased a gun and were waiting to pick it up, and then had thier home or business broken into. In Arizona I can walk into a store, and walk out with a new pistol. Or two even.



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Stand up for your rights. If you are not pushing forward, someone else will be there pushing you backwards.

timmy8151
03-14-2006, 2:03 PM
I'm doing my Livescan tommorow. Hopefully they'll process my COE in a week as well.

Tom Riddle
03-14-2006, 3:28 PM
Were did you get the COE paperwork?


http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf

Tom Riddle
03-14-2006, 3:31 PM
I'd love to have this license, but looking at the application, I don't see how I could satisfy the DOJ under "BUSINESS TYPE"

What did you guys do?

Santa Cruz Armory
03-14-2006, 3:39 PM
Firearms Collector :D

Tom Riddle
03-14-2006, 3:55 PM
What would qualify me as a FIREARMS COLLECTOR ?

I'm a definite gun nut, but do I need some type official document proving my insanity?

(That's a joke, son)

grammaton76
03-14-2006, 3:56 PM
What would qualify me as a FIREARMS COLLECTOR ?

I'm a definite gun nut, but do I need some type official document proving my insanity?

(That's a joke, son)

A C&R license would probably statutorily define you as one...

jojosdad
03-15-2006, 12:00 AM
It's too bad that having a CCW doesn't entitle you to the same rules. Logically it should, since the DOJ/FBI fingerprint check is the same - but who said that logic applied to CA gun laws? :mad:

Tom Riddle
03-15-2006, 5:34 AM
I asked the DOJ that very thing one time. Why is it that you gave me a CCW, yet I still wait 10 days to get a gun? I got no response.

vrylak
03-18-2006, 10:03 PM
Well, I must say, I am impressed. The DOJ processed my Certificate of Eligibility application in less than a week. ............

How come there are two livescan applications that both says: Second Copy-Applicant? Do you give both to the livescan people or does one get mailed to the DOJ with the CoE application?

Thanks

xenophobe
03-18-2006, 10:34 PM
If you have a C&R, you may be inspected and your records audited by the ATF.

Whether or not the State can ask to inspect is something I've never found out.