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Rivet
03-08-2006, 9:33 AM
I am just curious if anyone has heard about or seen this yet? http://www.larryelder.com/michaelandme.html

pilotmadrat
03-08-2006, 11:20 AM
I orderd it today, I'll post what I think once I see it.

PMR

blacklisted
03-08-2006, 12:23 PM
Sounds interesting. It probably helps that he's black as well, because one of Moore's main assertions was that the NRA was related to the Klan. I wonder if he addresses that.

mow
03-08-2006, 12:45 PM
I thought that Michael Moore was an NRA member.... :confused: :p

crs1
03-08-2006, 12:51 PM
I saw it...Very good and well done. Probably the most well done pro 2nd amendment movie out there.

pilotmadrat
03-08-2006, 1:09 PM
Have you guys seen www.bowlingfortruth.com?

In one section Moore's statements about the connection between the NRA and the Klan is examaned. From what they found the NRA was started by Union generals. It seems rather unlikly the Klan had many members on the Union side :)

PMR

shecky
03-08-2006, 1:56 PM
I am just curious if anyone has heard about or seen this yet? http://www.larryelder.com/michaelandme.html

Elder is as big a hack as Moore. For entertainment purposes only.

In one section Moore's statements about the connection between the NRA and the Klan is examaned. From what they found the NRA was started by Union generals. It seems rather unlikly the Klan had many members on the Union side

I don't know about any connection. However, in the earlier 20th century, the KKK was viewed as more of a mainstream fraternal organization, identified with conservative/nativist values such as prohibition, anti-immigration, anti-Catholic, and of course, race. Not only that, they were very widespread outside the South, as far north as Canada, Mid-West, even as far west as CA. Quite a few notable historical figures brushed up with the KKK in that time. Given their constituents, and political/moral stances, it would not be all that surprising a correlation between the NRA and the KKK members may exist. Even to this day.

blacklisted
03-08-2006, 2:06 PM
I believe a few of our current senators were Klansmen.

RRangel
03-08-2006, 2:14 PM
Saying that Larry Elder is as big a hack as MM is a BIG stretch. REAL BIG. So big in fact that all your posts are now suspect. That's what happens when you under estimate gun owners. So big in fact that I'm asking you to remove your avatar because it is offensive.

Elder is as big a hack as Moore. For entertainment purposes only.



I don't know about any connection. However, in the earlier 20th century, the KKK was viewed as more of a mainstream fraternal organization, identified with conservative/nativist values such as prohibition, anti-immigration, anti-Catholic, and of course, race. Not only that, they were very widespread outside the South, as far north as Canada, Mid-West, even as far west as CA. Quite a few notable historical figures brushed up with the KKK in that time. Given their constituents, and political/moral stances, it would not be all that surprising a correlation between the NRA and the KKK members may exist. Even to this day.

gmcem50
03-08-2006, 2:17 PM
Elder is as big a hack as Moore. For entertainment purposes only.

Oh, please! Every word that spews forth from the sewer known as Michael Moore is a lie, or some version of a lie. Please cite even one example of Larry Elder lying.

gmcem50
03-08-2006, 2:19 PM
I believe a few of our current senators were Klansmen.

How surprising that they are all Democrats!

blacklisted
03-08-2006, 2:30 PM
How surprising that they are all Democrats!

Yes, it is.

Robert Byrd is the only one I know for sure.

Are there any others?

gmcem50
03-08-2006, 2:34 PM
Yes, it is.

Robert Byrd is the only one I know for sure.

Are there any others?

It seems to me there was at least one other, but his name escapes me at the moment.

EBWhite
03-08-2006, 2:44 PM
Here is my question. As long as the KKK is non-violent, who cares if they operate and if someone is a member? It is no different that the NAACP and groups such as LA RAZA, etc..We live in a free country, why are black and hispanic groups okay but white groups are not???

gmcem50
03-08-2006, 2:50 PM
Here is my question. As long as the KKK is non-violent, who cares if they operate and if someone is a member? It is no different that the NAACP and groups such as LA RAZA, etc..We live in a free country, why are black and hispanic groups okay but white groups are not???

In theory, you are correct. But we all know that the KKK was not 'non-violent' at all, unless you consider lynching non-violent.

EBWhite
03-08-2006, 3:03 PM
No you are correct but there are many chapters today that are non-violent. Arrest the criminals, let the others have their group.

Similar to NRA is not correct but Handgun control inc is seen as okay in the media...

blacklisted
03-08-2006, 3:11 PM
I have no problem with a bunch of white sheet wearing retards getting together lamenting about the South's loss in the Civil war and how the colored folk are taking all their "family values" etc.

However, continuing to associate with the violent past of the KKK like they are proud of it is completely wrong, and that is why I can't stand them. Anyone who joins that group knowing what they stand for, and the horrible acts they commited in the past is crazy. Same goes for LA RAZA and any other group. Skin color doesn't matter, their stupidity does.

Matt C
03-08-2006, 3:47 PM
Elder is as big a hack as Moore. For entertainment purposes only.
Go back to your bridge please.

why are black and hispanic groups okay but white groups are not???
This occured to me as well today. It seems there is an active branch of the "Black Panther Party" with an approved charter at the community college I attend. Obviously the flyers they are posting and handing out are aggressive toward other races and cultures, but this is seen as ok. However, if one were to start some "White Power" type non-sense there would be a large outcry. Racism should not be tolerated from anyone.

EBWhite
03-08-2006, 4:04 PM
Black, what school is it at?

I am at glendale college and we have groups such as American Club which is the same idea.
Everyone else is okay but no whites can have there group...
I have though about starting a "Northern european Heritage club" or even a gun owners group but just to see everyone have a cow.

My personal opinion is if you want your black club, go right ahead. But don't keep my from having my club. Racism is only an opinon granted to us in the Bill of Rights and most racist speak is typically fact. Just be able to back up your statement you make.

grammaton76
03-08-2006, 4:32 PM
My personal opinion is if you want your black club, go right ahead. But don't keep my from having my club. Racism is only an opinon granted to us in the Bill of Rights and most racist speak is typically fact. Just be able to back up your statement you make.

Clearly you've been around different racists than I have. Then again, I spent 15 years in Tennessee. :)

I will have to say though, the reverse racism thing really irritates me quite a bit. If people really wanted to do away with racism, they'd get rid of things like La Raza, the Black Panthers, etc. It's no coincidence that if you check actual neo-nazi sites, Socal is one of the most aggressively growing areas out there.

By the way, I personally find it to be a good idea to periodically acquaint yourself with white nationalist fashion by perusing the member pics over on *****front. I use it as a good index of who to avoid talking to at the range. I do know at one point they apparently got upset at me for viewing pics and never having a membership registration, as they set up a firewall rule to prevent ONE of my various static IP's from hitting their server.

Nothin' like being judged a threat by skinheads! :D

shecky
03-08-2006, 5:01 PM
Oh, please! Every word that spews forth from the sewer known as Michael Moore is a lie, or some version of a lie. Please cite even one example of Larry Elder lying.


http://mediamatters.org/items/200503020008

This was just a two second search.

Don't take offense that your boy is being call out for being the partisan hack he is. That's his job. I doubt he himself would deny this.

Here is my question. As long as the KKK is non-violent, who cares if they operate and if someone is a member? It is no different that the NAACP and groups such as LA RAZA, etc..We live in a free country, why are black and hispanic groups okay but white groups are not???

Who says that black and hispanic groups okay but white groups are not? The most distinguishing problem with some of the white groups has been the terrorism they had been historically known for. Hence the exaggerated fear they induced. Even then, it was somewhat overblown. And indeed, as long as they aren't violent, the law really doesn't care too much.

EBWhite
03-08-2006, 5:05 PM
Who says they are okay? Well the media does! You always hear stuff from politicians and the media about how bad white groups are but never anything bad about the NAACP and LA RAZA....Dude, get your facts straight.

brando
03-08-2006, 5:36 PM
"Yeah, liberals and any disenters need to be shot. Love it or leave it."
- this message paid for by Intollerant Fcuksticks for Truth

There are so many groups out there with an agenda, Left and Right. Many pretend to not be biased, but the slant is there if you look carefully. No one side is "only telling the truth." News and information these days is less about facts and more about opinion, spin and entertainment.

Always question the source. Seek out the truth. Don't spend all your time listening to those who agree with you. The broader your information sources, the better chance you have of being able to filter out the BS and find the truth. Don't just limit your intake to only those who agree with you. Folks who refuse to watch anything other than Fox News are buying right into the label of Right Wing news. On the flipside, if you hate Fox, don't just listen to Air America all day. Hell, I read Al-Jazeera every day, not only for comic value and arabic practice, but so I can get an extreme viewpoint.

RRangel
03-08-2006, 5:53 PM
Shecky I asked you to remove your avatar.

That's one strike. You only get two.

jdberger
03-08-2006, 6:51 PM
Now I want to know what the avatar is. Any more disturbing than the ones Blacklisted keeps posting? <Clowns........shudder>

Shecky, Media Matters has a habit of distorting the truth, too.

Omega13device
03-08-2006, 7:16 PM
Here is my question. As long as the KKK is non-violent, who cares if they operate and if someone is a member? It is no different that the NAACP and groups such as LA RAZA, etc..We live in a free country, why are black and hispanic groups okay but white groups are not???

The KKK has a long tradition of violence (including murder) against minorities in the interest of suppressing those people's civil rights. The NAACP has a long tradition of advocating for civil rights and fighting racism. That should answer your question about why they're different. But really, you need to read some history books if you're asking that question.

As to your second question, white people do not have a history of being a minority in this country. As a group they have not been oppressed. Black and hispanic groups generally work for increased civil rights for minorities and awareness of racism (I am excepting violent groups here, they are not ok). Not sure what a "white group" would advocate for but thanks to all the white supremecist groups out there you would get painted with that brush whether you like it or not.

EBWhite
03-08-2006, 9:16 PM
Omega, you do bring up valid points. However, in CA, tides are turning on whites. They are becoming the minority as minorites get more benefits and recognition. In high school, we tried to start a club called "Northern European Club" as there was other minority clubs at the school. We got a big NO. Why? Political correctness....Why do we have a black history month but no white history month? It is called reverse racism and a white organization fights for the advance of the white race just as the minority groups do the same for their praticular group.

Matt C
03-08-2006, 9:54 PM
The school is East LA College. I am the president of a chartered club there, Student's for the Second Amendment (http://www.sf2a.org), this is a national club with chapters in 22 states. Ours is the ONLY one in CA. Our membership is composed MOSTLY of "minority" students (I am white). I am currently working to expand our female membership. I don't think the answer to racism is more racism. Our school also has a black awareness/rights, type club, as well as a similar chicano club and we share many members with them, I attend some of thier meetings and have spoken at them. Often they are living in neighboorhoods where firearms are most needed for defense. BTW, if there are other students in colleges in CA who want to start a firearms club PLEASE let me know. Don't be intimidated by the overwhelmingly liberal faculty or or other concerns, we have a national charter behind us. They stopped trying to push us around after about the first week, many people here in CA will support you as well.

blacklisted
03-08-2006, 10:03 PM
Omega, you do bring up valid points. However, in CA, tides are turning on whites. They are becoming the minority as minorites get more benefits and recognition. In high school, we tried to start a club called "Northern European Club" as there was other minority clubs at the school. We got a big NO. Why? Political correctness....Why do we have a black history month but no white history month? It is called reverse racism and a white organization fights for the advance of the white race just as the minority groups do the same for their praticular group.

How about we stop fighting for the advance of our race and fight for the advance of our nation? It really pisses me off when people seperate into their stupid little groups with racial agendas. These "clubs" only serve to further seperate the people. They are widening the race gap that exists between whites and minorities.

Just because there is a black club, latino club, and asian club does not mean there NEEDS to be a white club. It's obvious that there is a double standard, but if there was a white club it would be no less foolish than any of ther others. All racial clubs need to go!

accordingtoome
03-08-2006, 10:10 PM
people just need to admit that everyone has hate and thinks in racial thoughts sometimes. I do. I don't try to hide it. I hate anyone thats not american and i have told many to there face. Most white people mumble under their breth when something happens. Then they like to talk loud when that person or situation is over and or gone. There afraid and they hide. They make me sick. Stand up and be proud of who you are and make sure no one tells you different. :mad:

stealthmode
03-08-2006, 10:11 PM
i enjoyed the michael and me movie i even turned a few people onto it and they have enjoyed it also.

what was sheckys avitar?

Rivet
03-08-2006, 10:30 PM
It was a dog with a revolver to it's head.

Omega13device
03-09-2006, 3:35 AM
Omega, you do bring up valid points. However, in CA, tides are turning on whites. They are becoming the minority as minorites get more benefits and recognition. In high school, we tried to start a club called "Northern European Club" as there was other minority clubs at the school. We got a big NO. Why? Political correctness....Why do we have a black history month but no white history month? It is called reverse racism and a white organization fights for the advance of the white race just as the minority groups do the same for their praticular group.

The fact that whites have recently become a minority in California doesn't mean the "tide is turning". Our society is still white-dominated and it will be for a long time. For example, look at the senior management of the top companies in California. They are nearly all white. Even though other groups are gaining positions of power in business and government, whites still have most of the power. Consequently the "advance of the white race" is seen as an attempt to maintain existing power by keeping other minority groups down. That's why your group was nixed.

crs1
03-09-2006, 9:59 AM
Larry Elder is one of the only major media figures who regularly supports gun ownership....I don't understand how anyone, especially on this forum, could even insinuate that he is a hack.:mad:

If our own government would share his and our views we wouldn't even need a gun rights, legal section on this forum.

crs1
03-09-2006, 10:04 AM
Also, lest everyone forget....The NRA was the first Civil Rights Group in this country!!! And history shows they didn't care who owned guns (race), but that they had the right to them.:)

gmcem50
03-09-2006, 10:09 AM
http://mediamatters.org/items/200503020008

This was just a two second search.

Don't take offense that your boy is being call out for being the partisan hack he is. That's his job. I doubt he himself would deny this.



Those clowns at Media Matters are about as reliable a source of information as Michael Moore is. They don't have the slightest shred of credibility. I suggest you spend a little more than 'two seconds' searching for facts instead of just repeating liberal talking points from leftist whackos.

gmcem50
03-09-2006, 10:14 AM
what was sheckys avitar?

It was a picture of a dog with a gun to his head. I think I remember seeing it in a National Lampoon advertisement, but I'm not absolutely sure about that. The advertisement said something like "Renew your subscription, or we'll shoot this dog" or something to that effect. Am I remembering correctly, shecky?

Charliegone
03-09-2006, 3:32 PM
Yeah, we shouldn't even consider race an issue in the US. We should advance as a nation as according said. As according said, racism exists in everyone and no one is innocent to the issue. Even if there are some extreme racists like the KKK or the NOI, we shouldn't let that hold us back.

kage genin
03-10-2006, 11:40 AM
Those clowns at Media Matters are about as reliable a source of information as Michael Moore is. They don't have the slightest shred of credibility. I suggest you spend a little more than 'two seconds' searching for facts instead of just repeating liberal talking points from leftist whackos.
+1. Their own website states
Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.
They make it no secret that they are a leftist organization, conveniently not looking for "leftist misinformation", otherwise their site should be chock full of stories about news reporters with firearms-related errors in their stories

shecky
03-10-2006, 8:06 PM
It was a picture of a dog with a gun to his head. I think I remember seeing it in a National Lampoon advertisement, but I'm not absolutely sure about that. The advertisement said something like "Renew your subscription, or we'll shoot this dog" or something to that effect. Am I remembering correctly, shecky?

The avatar was the cover of a classic old National Lampoon issue, with the caption being "Buy this magazine or we'll shoot this dog". I suppose there's no room for politically incorrect humor here.

If you folks think that Elder doesn't process everything through a right wing filter (the same way Moore does through a left wing filter), then you're simply in denial. Doesn't mean I don't agree or disagree with him. It's simply a matter of fact. He makes a living being a professional partisan. He writes editorials for worldnetdaily.com, which is the polar opposite of mediamatters.org, fer pete'ssakes.

gmcem50
03-10-2006, 9:51 PM
If you folks think that Elder doesn't process everything through a right wing filter (the same way Moore does through a left wing filter), then you're simply in denial. Doesn't mean I don't agree or disagree with him. It's simply a matter of fact. He makes a living being a professional partisan. He writes editorials for worldnetdaily.com, which is the polar opposite of mediamatters.org, fer pete'ssakes.

Dude, come on, there is a HUGE difference between 'process(ing) everything through a right wing filter' (or for that matter, processing everything through a left wing filter) and blatantly lying. Of course Larry Elder is partisan. No one is saying he's not. He does not lie though. Michael Moore lies and there are mountains of evidence documenting his lies.

Creeping Incrementalism
03-11-2006, 10:11 AM
The fact that whites have recently become a minority in California doesn't mean the "tide is turning". Our society is still white-dominated and it will be for a long time. For example, look at the senior management of the top companies in California. They are nearly all white. Even though other groups are gaining positions of power in business and government, whites still have most of the power.

The reason the top management is mostly white is because it takes decades to acheive those positions, and back then, there weren't nearly as many minorities in this state.

Also, from how you phrase this, it seems as if you have a sectarian focus on power--as if its impossible for any group to be fair, everyone is biased, so the only way to get ahead is to have your group be in power.

Consequently the "advance of the white race" is seen as an attempt to maintain existing power by keeping other minority groups down. That's why your group was nixed.

So why aren't minority clubs nixed because of their attempts to keep others down--have you ever seen Mecha's website? If you just swapped one pejoritive term for another, and kept the Jewish conspiracy stuff as is, it could mistaken for the KKK.

Charliegone
03-11-2006, 11:17 AM
You know, the cool thing in the high school I went to was that they didn't care whether you were white, asian, latino, black, etc they could join any club on the campus! The members didn't care about their race, they were just interested in educating people and doing other public related stuff according to the what the club was about. It was sort of an appreciation of the culture, not a being segregists.

blacklisted
03-11-2006, 11:27 AM
You know, the cool thing in the high school I went to was that they didn't care whether you were white, asian, latino, black, etc they could join any club on the campus! The members didn't care about their race, they were just interested in educating people and doing other public related stuff according to the what the club was about. It was sort of an appreciation of the culture, not a being segregists.

At my High School, we watched Bowling for Columbine in History class. No wonder I left early!