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RolinThundr
05-07-2010, 6:08 PM
I am posting this here because it is a legal question:

A friend of mine was telling me that he knew someone that had a couple of guns he was interested in purchasing (PPT). The trouble is that the current owner of the guns did not purchase them in accordance with CA law, according to my friend she purchased them from an elderly lady at a garage sale (elderly woman was getting rid of a few things that belonged to her recently deceased husband). Neither party was aware (or claim to have been unaware) of CA PPT laws. What is the best course of action to correct this matter? Please include guidance on what to do if the elderly woman who sold the guns cannot be contacted?

Librarian
05-07-2010, 6:48 PM
FAQ - no problem.

While all of us at CalGuns encourage following the laws, sometimes things get missed.

California does not require that guns be registered before they can be sold; many are unknown to CA-DOJ, and that's entirely legal.

So your friend acquiring the guns in question via PPT should have no problems, and the handguns would be registered to the buyer via the DROS filed for the sale.

CHS
05-07-2010, 7:20 PM
The best course of action is to just sell them in a legal manner. You will be fine.

onikuma
05-07-2010, 7:43 PM
also if the current owner bought them before ppt paperwork was mandatory.. i think 1990 or 1991.. there would be no record and it would have been entirely legal.

RolinThundr
05-08-2010, 8:36 AM
If purchased after 1990 (PPT paperwork mandatory), should the elderly woman and the woman she sold the guns to do the PPT paperwork before the second woman sells the guns to my friend?

Librarian, my concern is that the CA DOJ will see that the original transaction between the 2 women did not go through an FFL dealer (as per current PPT laws) when my friend tries to buy the guns. Would the CA DOJ allow that to slide since they are currently being sold in accordance with CA PPT laws?

Capt_Communist
05-08-2010, 8:49 AM
To chime in with personal experience:

I was an Army guy and have been all over the country. Some other states have no PPT requirement and individuals can "gift" a gun, where a simple hand written receipt is exchanged. (no paperwork to the state or feds).

I have done this and acquired handguns which I have then PPTed in Ca and have had no problems. ((the cover my arse statement of, no i didn't attempt to skirt the DOJ roster by doing this, I sold guns later))

If you are concerned the lady could always voluntarily register them saying she got them from her husband and send DOJ $19 I want to say. Then they would be registered and then you wouldn't have any PPT issues. ((IMO this is excessive))

Good luck with this, but you should be fine

paul0660
05-08-2010, 9:23 AM
The only problem would be if one of these guns has been reported stolen.......very unlikely in this case.

Librarian
05-08-2010, 10:12 AM
If purchased after 1990 (PPT paperwork mandatory), should the elderly woman and the woman she sold the guns to do the PPT paperwork before the second woman sells the guns to my friend?

Librarian, my concern is that the CA DOJ will see that the original transaction between the 2 women did not go through an FFL dealer (as per current PPT laws) when my friend tries to buy the guns. Would the CA DOJ allow that to slide since they are currently being sold in accordance with CA PPT laws?

One could indeed get the two ladies to go to a friendly FFL and do the PPT they didn't know they should have done. However, if one or the other were the same age as my Mom, it's reasonably likely that she wouldn't follow what was going on (or if she was still mentally sharp, wouldn't understand why this rigamarole was necessary, putting her in the same group with most Calguns members and other intelligent people :) )

Since the first transaction did not get DROS'd, CA-DOJ won't know anything about it.

That's OK. It isn't the way it should have gone, but from the outside it's the same as if someone moved it here before 2000 - no need to register, so DOJ most likely knows nothing about the guns. That's not an issue in PPT.

Anecdotal evidence strongly suggests that running the sale properly through PPT will 'regularize' things with no complaint.

fairfaxjim
05-08-2010, 10:48 AM
Best course is to go with the current owner to a licensed FFL and do a legal Privat Party Transfer with DROS. You really have no firsthand knowledge, nor need to have, on when or how the current owner obtained the firearms. Neither does the DOJ if what you say is accurate.
Bottom line, you will have the guns, legally transferred to you.

bwiese
05-08-2010, 11:19 AM
One Anecdotal evidence strongly suggests that running the sale properly through PPT will 'regularize' things with no complaint.


Correct. The DOJ is, in the end, happy to have those guns papered to their current real owner.

The above statement should NOT be inferred, however, for folks to go ahead and do 'FFL-free- PPTs and then paper them later. That's a no-go - but here the OP is cleaning up some old history from the fairly distant past.