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rjk
05-06-2010, 8:35 PM
I understand the current CA CFLC regulations went into effect July 1, 2008. Is that the point where FFL03 C&R license holders were no longer permitted to directly receive C&R handguns from out-of-state Sellers, or was there some previous CA legislation that prohibited it? I'd like to understand the history.

littlejake
05-06-2010, 8:41 PM
I understand the current CA CFLC regulations went into effect July 1, 2008. Is that the point where FFL03 C&R license holders were no longer permitted to directly receive C&R handguns from out-of-state Sellers, or was there some previous CA legislation that prohibited it? I'd like to understand the history.

With a few exceptions, all transfers had to go through a California Dealer after 01/01/1991.

As far as your specific question on receiving C&R handguns to CA C&R holders from out of state sellers, that was the date.

rjk
05-06-2010, 8:51 PM
Thanks for the information.

rjk
05-06-2010, 9:26 PM
I have a follow on question about the CA CFLC program. The following is the first paragraph on the CA DOJ website about the CFLC program:

As of July 1, 2008, California Penal Code Section 12072(f)(1) prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs, from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms. This includes transfers that occur at gun shows.

I interpret the "other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs" to mean that an out-of-state 03 or 06 need not go thtough the CFLC and can ship directly to a receiving CA 01. This seems clear.

What is not clear is the reason for the following FAQ and response. FAQ #4 on the CA DOJ website in the CFLC section is as follows:

4. Are any California FFLs exempt from the CFLC verification approval requirement?

Yes. The CFLC program does not apply to FFLs with Type 03 (curio and relic collectors) and Type 06 (ammunition dealers) licenses.

What does this mean and what does this allow a CA FFL03 to do that is otherwise prohibited under the CFLC program?

CHS
05-06-2010, 10:05 PM
What does this mean and what does this allow a CA FFL03 to do that is otherwise prohibited under the CFLC program?

Nothing.

CA 03 FFL's are already prohibited from receiving C&R handguns directly. All it means is that they are exempt from being required to receive a CFLC letter with long gun shipments and are exempt from signing up for the CFLC to send long guns to other 03's.

06's are Ammunition dealers/importers so it doesn't matter since they can't deal in guns anyways.

M. D. Van Norman
05-06-2010, 11:18 PM
Once again, California law does not generally prohibit the acquisition or ownership of firearms.

I forget the exact reference, but I recall being directed to a window of time between A.D. 1996 (when a federal regulation was supposedly changed allowing interstate commerce in C&R handguns) and A.D. 2001 (when a municipal lawsuit apparently drove the major vendors away from California) wherein licensed collectors could import eligible firearms freely. Since then, conventional wisdom holds that a licensed collector in California is prohibited from buying a C&R handgun from anyone but a licensed dealer in California. However, while the penal code recognizes that a licensed collector may acquire an eligible handgun outside California, it does not specify in an enforceable way how said firearm must cross the border during importation.

Not surprisingly, phone calls to the Bureau of Firearms on this subject have received a variety of different and sometimes contradictory answers.

rjk
05-07-2010, 4:27 AM
M. D. Van Norman - Since then, conventional wisdom holds that a licensed collector in California is prohibited from buying a C&R handgun from anyone but a licensed dealer in California.

Interesting, Iíve recently heard conflicting claims on this point from other collectors and personally received conflicting responses from calls to CA DOJ; one OK, one not OK. Is there anything explicit in the law that precludes collectors from directly receiving C&R handguns from out-of-state, or did some past change in the law get interpreted to apply to C&Rs. I understand and not arguing with the conventional wisdom stated repeatedly on this site, I just want to understand the basis (if thatís possible).

littlejake
05-07-2010, 6:45 AM
The C&R license was created by the GCA of 1968 to permit in C&R licensees to transfer C&R guns across state lines. The GCA of 1968 was a general prohibition on interstate transfer of arms without an FFL of some flavor. The GCA of 1968 also required dealers to record ammo sales (IIRC it applied to handgun ammo and components.)

Even post GCA 1968, transfers of handguns between CA residents were not restricted -- even though the DROS process had been applied to dealer transfers of handguns long before the GCA of 1968.

It is my understanding that the door slammed shut on all transfers on 01/01/1991 when the state law said all transfers had to be processed through dealers. With certain exceptions -- interfamilial, oplaw, and the 12078 (t)(2) exception for long guns >50 years and C&R.

Matthew Van Norman is correct that how a C&R handgun acquisition out-of-state comes in is not codified --- It is a generally held view that the C&R licensee must bring it into the state by self transporting it. I believe the out-of-state acquisition of a handgun, where possession is taken out-of-state, also permits self shipping it to ones licensed location (via UPS, FEDEX, et cetera.)

I assume that C&R licensees were still receiving C&R handguns after 01/01/1991 (Let me be clear, I never did) until CA DOJ dropped the hammer on some of these transfers...

This put a chill into out-of-state FFLs; and that's why so many auction sellers say. "NO SALES TO CALIFORNIA."

The need to get approval from CA DOJ to ship to a CA dealer (July 2008) was a final straw for another group of out of state FFLs who didn't want to deal with another layer of CA hoops to jump through.

IMO -- some CA dealers like the July 2008 law, as doing FFL transfers meant they were not selling from their stock. One of the large chains increased their FFL transfer fees by $50 after the July 2008 law went into effect.