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View Full Version : Officer to be charged with shooting Iraqi war vet


hrlrdr22
03-07-2006, 10:13 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/airman_shooting

bwiese
03-07-2006, 10:17 AM
Cool. Maybe this'll stop his lifetime pension/healthcare benefits.

Bacon
03-07-2006, 10:22 AM
It's about time. The victim got it a lot worse than Rodney King ever did.

Rumpled
03-07-2006, 10:24 AM
IIRC, I read that the DA involved has NEVER prosecuted a cop for a shooting in something like 30-40 years.
There's no way this was the first that was criminal, just the first really egregious on video.

hrlrdr22
03-07-2006, 10:30 AM
IIRC, I read that the DA involved has NEVER prosecuted a cop for a shooting in something like 30-40 years.
There's no way this was the first that was criminal, just the first really egregious on video.

+1 to that.....

GTKrockeTT
03-07-2006, 10:39 AM
i'd like to see the enhanced version of the tape.

blacklisted
03-07-2006, 10:54 AM
This officer deserves everything he is getting and more. He needs to go to jail with people he put there. Let's see how long he lasts.

ETA: Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMu1_iXRznE&search=police%20shooting

EBWhite
03-07-2006, 10:57 AM
I think it is funny how they said it was so hard to charge him. I wish that airman would have had a CCW and been carrying, return fire would have been totally called for and legit.

GTKrockeTT
03-07-2006, 11:01 AM
I think it is funny how they said it was so hard to charge him. I wish that airman would have had a CCW and been carrying, return fire would have been totally called for and legit.

yes, it would be a walk in the park to draw from a prone position after taking shots in the shoulder, torso, and thigh, and return fire. any one who hasn't done this before is quite frankly, a pansy sissy-boy.;)

EBWhite
03-07-2006, 11:08 AM
Oh course it would have been hard to do what I said. But!!! just think about it, in a perfect world, that jerk deserved to bleed on the asphalt for what he did.

Charliegone
03-07-2006, 11:33 AM
Well, all I can say this is well deserved after what he did. People make mistakes, but sometimes you make enough stupid ones you end up in jail. You do crime gotta do the time. That simple and NO one should be above the law!

bu-bye
03-07-2006, 11:36 AM
Oh course it would have been hard to do what I said. But!!! just think about it, in a perfect world, that jerk deserved to bleed on the asphalt for what he did.

:confused: :confused:

Your joking right? He was not the driver and did nothing wrong. His friend should not have been drinking but thats another story. He was shot for following a direct order.

ALTSEC972
03-07-2006, 11:39 AM
Ummm Bu, I think he was talking about the officer.

bear308
03-07-2006, 11:48 AM
This officer deserves everything he is getting and more. He needs to go to jail with people he put there. Let's see how long he lasts.

ETA: Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMu1_iXRznE&search=police%20shooting


so is your stance that anyone that breaks the law be killed/beat up in jail? The guy did everything wrong; suspect in the middle of the night and he's got no back up, shoulda held him at gun point and left him spread eagle until more deputies showed up. He definitely needs to go to prison, but saying he needs to get whipped or killed while in there is a little far reaching isn't it. The story said he could get up to 18 years, that's a pretty good way of showing someone they screwed the pooch.:eek:

odysseus
03-07-2006, 1:05 PM
Just think if there was no video tape to document this. He is a shame to the people who where a badge and he should get all that is coming to him. There is no room for people with trigger fingers like him in LE.

mechandy
03-07-2006, 1:48 PM
I really really don't like cops that abuse their power.
There is a special place for them and this one seems well on his way.
That being said here is my take on this.
This guy messed up and did it bad.
The truth is that there is a possibility that he "brain farted" in a serious bad way.
Should that give him a free walk....HELL NO.Would you get one?
He should be tried in accordance with the law and face maximum penalties so to set pecident to keep this type of crap from re-ocurring (sp?).
No more no less.

Victor
03-07-2006, 1:51 PM
:confused: :confused:

Your joking right? He was not the driver and did nothing wrong. His friend should not have been drinking but thats another story. He was shot for following a direct order.

He was talking about the cop.

blacklisted
03-07-2006, 2:07 PM
so is your stance that anyone that breaks the law be killed/beat up in jail? The guy did everything wrong; suspect in the middle of the night and he's got no back up, shoulda held him at gun point and left him spread eagle until more deputies showed up. He definitely needs to go to prison, but saying he needs to get whipped or killed while in there is a little far reaching isn't it. The story said he could get up to 18 years, that's a pretty good way of showing someone they screwed the pooch.:eek:

I just think that people who abuse their position of power are the worst people of all. If I went out and shot someone 3 times, it would be attempted murder and a whole bunch of other crimes. I would get charged instantly, and spend the time before my trial in a jail cell. Then I would probably end up in jail for 30 + years. This officer was simply put on adminstrative leave, it took them this long to decide to charge him. He probably wont even be found guilty.

so is your stance that anyone that breaks the law be killed/beat up in jail?

Anyone who tries to kill someone for no reason, then heartlessly tells them to "shut the f*** up" while they moan in pain does deserve this IMO.

We should not have to worry about getting shot by a trigger happy cop when following their commands.

bear308
03-07-2006, 2:19 PM
like I said the guy needs to go to prison. What I'm saying is that going to prison is the penalty, this whole make him go to prison with the people he put there is unjust. As soon as there was enough to hold/charge him he should have been put in jail. If he has been charged then wouldn't that mean he has to be arraigned and all just like the rest of us.

And drawing a direct correlation between you and him is not a balanced position. He probably shouldn't be a cop to begin with but he is. You are not. The difirence is that you are not tasked with carrying a gun for the protection of the peace (we all know cops aren't there to protect us). If you were a lumberjack and screwed up and put an ax thru joe's head you could be charged with a whole bunch of things but it would not be the same as someone off the street walking up and putting the ax thru joes head.

Maybe my possition doesn't make sense to you and that's ok, it makes sense to me. That's why we have juries of more than one person.

blacklisted
03-07-2006, 2:36 PM
like I said the guy needs to go to prison. What I'm saying is that going to prison is the penalty, this whole make him go to prison with the people he put there is unjust. As soon as there was enough to hold/charge him he should have been put in jail. If he has been charged then wouldn't that mean he has to be arraigned and all just like the rest of us.

And drawing a direct correlation between you and him is not a balanced position. He probably shouldn't be a cop to begin with but he is. You are not. The difirence is that you are not tasked with carrying a gun for the protection of the peace (we all know cops aren't there to protect us). If you were a lumberjack and screwed up and put an ax thru joe's head you could be charged with a whole bunch of things but it would not be the same as someone off the street walking up and putting the ax thru joes head.

Maybe my possition doesn't make sense to you and that's ok, it makes sense to me. That's why we have juries of more than one person.

I don't mean to say that he SHOULD be put in jail with people he put there and such, that's just my opinion. I know that's not the way things work. There's a reason why I don't plan on having any sort of legal profession ;) I was just trying to say something without turning in this into a cop bashing thread, it seems my restraint did not allow me to fully express my views.

Basically, I just want him to get the same punishment anyone else would. No more, no less.

bear308
03-07-2006, 2:39 PM
^

Absolutely, no more, no less.

slowjonn
03-07-2006, 3:24 PM
The difirence is that you are not tasked with carrying a gun for the protection of the peace (we all know cops aren't there to protect us).

UHHH...watch the video of the North Hollywood bank robbery and then tell me cops are not there to protect you. There is plenty of footage in that video that shows cops risking their own well being to save a bunch of citizens in harms way. I'm not saying that this guy is wrong or not, but you guys are sure quick to castrate this guy from what you have read in the liberal press as well as some hack job video. Even in the Rodney video, the media did not show the whole video.

Like I said, if this guy screwed up, so be it. Let a jury decide what a just punishment is. But how many of you can say that after a high speed pursuit, against two unknown suspects (yes, two until proven otherwise) you would be able to keep your adrenalin in check?

blacklisted
03-07-2006, 3:31 PM
But how many of you can say that after a high speed pursuit, against two unknown suspects (yes, two until proven otherwise) you would be able to keep your adrenalin in check?

I couldn't. But guess what? I'm not a cop. Cops should be expected to be able to keep their adrenalin in check, at least enough to not SHOOT SOMEONE WHO IS FOLLOWING ORDERS!

Bacon
03-07-2006, 4:55 PM
But how many of you can say that after a high speed pursuit, against two unknown suspects (yes, two until proven otherwise) you would be able to keep your adrenalin in check?

More objectivity is in order here. Put yourself in the average citizens place. On TV you see the police make people grovel on the ground. Then you see a video like this and the cop goes free and gets paid for doing nothing (administrative leave) while the higher-ups wring their hands and worry about what to do. Special treatment for a shooter hiding behind a badge.

Say the roles were reversed. Do you think the Serviceman would be walking around waiting for the DA to decide whether to press charges?

If someone is to get special treatment, then they should conduct themself in a professional manner. Think about it. Would you want that cop covering your 6?

slowjonn
03-07-2006, 5:53 PM
I couldn't. But guess what? I'm not a cop. Cops should be expected to be able to keep their adrenalin in check, at least enough to not SHOOT SOMEONE WHO IS FOLLOWING ORDERS!

I am prefacing this with the fact that I am in no way supporting this cop, just trying to take a different look at it. Why do you think cops are any different than you when it comes to physiology? A huge surge of adrenaline can do crazy things to the human body. Maybe for the last how ever many years this guy has been able to function under these adrenaline dumps with out a problem. Maybe this time for what ever reason, in his mind, he saw something that caused him to shoot.

By saying that you are not a cop and thats why you don't have to be able to keep yourself in check is a weak argument. Again, not being supportive of his actions, just looking at it a bit differently.

slowjonn
03-07-2006, 6:20 PM
More objectivity is in order here. Put yourself in the average citizens place. On TV you see the police make people grovel on the ground. Then you see a video like this and the cop goes free and gets paid for doing nothing (administrative leave) while the higher-ups wring their hands and worry about what to do. Special treatment for a shooter hiding behind a badge.

Say the roles were reversed. Do you think the Serviceman would be walking around waiting for the DA to decide whether to press charges?

If someone is to get special treatment, then they should conduct themself in a professional manner. Think about it. Would you want that cop covering your 6?

First I never said he deserved special treatment. Second I agree that an added level of responsibility comes with the badge. Finally, he hasn't "gone free", he hasn't even been tried yet. What he has done is been dealt with according to the way that any cop is dealt with in shooting incidents as well as other incidents where the cop needs to be investigated. There are laws in place that deal with this kind of thing and they need to be followed.

Now, how would you feel if they had arrested him on the spot and then he was to walk free because the law wasn't followed? That would be a shame if in fact this guy needs to be locked up. Along with the added responsibility of pinning on the badge comes a different level of being dealt with when you screw the pooch.

No, I don't think the guy in the car would have been dealt with the same. He shouldn't be. If you want the police to be better than the average joe, expect that he is going to be treated differently when things go bad. Perhaps that angers you that this cop is getting his due process in the way he is being dealt with, but based on all the talk about following gun laws to the T with regards to the whole lower paranoia and how the DOJ legally has to do this and that, Why would you be okay with this cop not being treated in accordance with the laws? If you don't like the system and what rights the cops have as far as due process, get them changed.

I'm not trying to get anyone riled up, just taking a look at it from the other side. This thread was real quick to jump all over this guy. Maybe he does deserve prison, maybe he is a bad apple. But that is only for a jury to decide. Finally, I would not base whether I want this guy "Covering my six" on liberal news reporting and a crappy video.

As always, I'm not sticking up for this guy, just exploring other views.

Peace!

Bacon
03-07-2006, 6:37 PM
slowjonn,
Thank you for the reply. I can respect your view. Seems level-headed.

Just want to make it clear that I think highly of most policemen. I also know they are human. Just wish they'd do a better job of tossing the bad apples. Looking back at my earlier posts, I was projecting years of frustration on this one case.

I'm not cut-out to be a cop & glad someone is willing to take on the job.

Peace

slowjonn
03-07-2006, 6:52 PM
Bacon,

I'm just glad you didn't take out all those years of frustration on ME!:D

There is no doubt some bad apples in the fruit basket. But this would apply to many highly regarded professions (Doctors, Catholic Priests, how bout the firemen that set fires?, etc.).

The system in place for the hiring of police officers is not perfect, but until a better way is discovered, it's all an agency has. It is very thorough and digs deep. A decision to hire someone is made based on all that info. Keep in mind that a fresh kid of 21 yrs is not the same mentally as a cop of 5, 10, 15 years etc. They older cops have seen things that would give people nightmares, been spit on and called every name under the sun. While most cops are able to hold it together, there are those that over time can't seem to cope as well.

I remember an agency a few years ago that wanted to have their officers take an annual pyscological(sp?) exam (the dreaded "pysch" test). It was set aside when they realized that the vast majority of the department probably wouldn't pass because of all the years of being jaded.:eek:

bear308
03-07-2006, 6:56 PM
UHHH...watch the video of the North Hollywood bank robbery and then tell me cops are not there to protect you.

I'm sorry, that came out wrong. I'm not saying police officers aren't out there protecting the public, but police departments are not. Look at LA city population vs. number of LAPD patrol officers. I don't remember what the ratio is but there is no way that the number of officers can protect everyone.

I don't think anyone is saying the cop is automatically guilty or in need of jail time. If the tape showed him saying shut up over and over again and then the guy got up, I think it maybe a little diferent. The deputy was doing a bunch of things wrong but it's for the jury to decide if it was criminal.

slowjonn
03-07-2006, 7:15 PM
I'm sorry, that came out wrong. I'm not saying police officers aren't out there protecting the public, but police departments are not.

Thanks for clarifying. No harm. You might be surprised to realize just how short staffed most police departments are. 1.5 to 1.6 cops per 1000 residents is considered pretty good. A city with 100,000 residents should have a PD with about 150-160 cops. That is to just provide basic services. There are a ton of agencies that operate around 1.0 - 1.2 cops per 1000 citizens.

It is very difficult to find qualified people to hire. If a department is down say 25 officers, they really have to hire about 1 1/2 times that many in a year just to cover some new positions as well as people leaving (retirements, quiting and yes incarcerated officers).

A lot of people (even here on CalGuns) say they are not cut out for police work and that is commendable that they realize this. But to find qaulified people willing to fill the gaps while trying to weed out the "bad apples" and meet staffing needs is a daunting task.

HTH

California-Quigley
03-13-2006, 9:19 AM
remember. we all know he was wrong in his actions. still we havent seen the whole tape. the entire pursuit!

you must prove his intent was to kill him.... and for some of you to say that cop shootings are criminal. pull ur head out... no cop wants to get into a shooting. unless you have been shot at... you have no way to know what cops go thru.

Bear: what do you mean cops arent there to portect us.... i dunno where you live but just because you have a gun in your home at night doesnt mean you are protected... here is the mentality again that one guy makes a big mistake and you hold everyone accountable... this is why our state is all frigged up.

i don't know about you guys, but unless you have some time on this earth and arent some 21 yr old getting on the gun buying bandwagon.... you need to look at things in totality.

I think the cop frigged up. he should get what is headed his way. but do not hang him unless you are in the courtroom and you have seen everything.

bear308
03-13-2006, 12:10 PM
as I already said that came out wrong, I meant it more as the Departments aren't there to protect us. The individual cop on the street is probably there to protect the people. No way a 3,000 cops (or whatever LAPD has) can protect a few MILLION people. If the department had to protect everyone there would be a bunch more cops and response times would be a lot quicker. Go back and read my post, most of them are pro cop, just not this cop.

Matt C
03-13-2006, 12:46 PM
airman would have had a CCW He would not need one, he is an LEO under HR 218, and that SD is lucky the SP lived, he had identified himself before he was shot. You can get the gas chamber in this state for killing an LEO.

220RR
03-13-2006, 12:55 PM
good thing this was video taped.you know damm well the police would have made some BS to cover it up.

QuickOnTheDraw
03-13-2006, 1:45 PM
Karma has a funny way of catching up to people! There isn't any excuse the officer can use, the airman identified and did everything he was told to do. Incoming police cadets should be required to watch this video, so that this doesn't happen again when someone is video taping. I'm surprised this video wasn't confiscated from the videographer.

bear308
03-13-2006, 1:55 PM
What's with the you know they would have covered it up or I'm suprised the tape wasn't confiscated. With all the tapes that have come out from Rodney King til now I would have been shocked if the tape was confiscated. And when in the last 15 years has a police DEPARTMENT covered something up as a DEPARTMENT. That cop down in Inglewhatts was found not guilty by a jury of twelve, not by his department.

Matt C
03-14-2006, 6:58 PM
They did confiscate it, the guy had been smart enough to make a copy before they did, and after he released it he was harrassed and then arrested.

"Statist thugs view video cameras the way vampires view crosses and sunlight."

NRAhighpowershooter
03-14-2006, 7:52 PM
it was printed in my local paper, when this all happened, that the guy who did the video taping was arrested because of an outstanding warrant.