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View Full Version : Sarah Palin endorses Carly Fiorina over Chuck DeVore in Cali GOP race


Steyr_223
05-06-2010, 1:50 PM
Why not Chuck DeVore?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/?fbid=zAOw6i7xWlt

Washington (CNN) – Sarah Palin broke ranks with the conservative movement on Thursday and endorsed former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina in California's Republican Senate primary, prompting a flurry of criticism from many of her loyal supporters.

After Palin announced the endorsement on her Facebook page, a number of her followers questioned why she would side with Fiorina instead of the more conservative candidate in the race, Assemblyman Chuck DeVore.

DeVore has the backing of several leading voices in the conservative movement, including Sen. Jim DeMint, RedState.com editor Erick Erickson and the Tea Party Express.

Though a handful of readers agreed with Palin's decision, most were upset.

"This is very, very disappointing," Rick Sheridan, one of her supporters, posted on Palin's page. "Sarah, you've got to be more careful. This woman does not represent conservative values. And the choice is so

Maltese Falcon
05-06-2010, 1:53 PM
It must be nice to be available for sale to the highest bidder...What's the word for that??

.

Untamed1972
05-06-2010, 1:53 PM
I have a question.......since Sarah Palin is basically just an average joe now, she holds not office nor is she running for one.....why does anyone care what she has to say? Why does her endorsement carry anymore weight then other person walking down the street?

Bad Voodoo
05-06-2010, 1:53 PM
Weird, huh? This demonstrates why she doesn't have mainstream credibility. Illogical displays of foot-in-mouth disease.

bwiese
05-06-2010, 2:03 PM
It must be nice to be available for sale to the highest bidder... What's the word for that??


It's the same word that applies to the guy at the gunshows selling Mag Magnets to noobs for their BulletButtons.

OleCuss
05-06-2010, 2:09 PM
Sarah Palin pretty much had to endorse McCain in order to maintain her own political viability. Problem is that she really may think highly of McCain and not much of J.D.

Fiorina is the likely winner in the primary. Palin is probably just endorsing the one most likely to win - important to be on the winning side rather than on the more righteous side in politics.

It will likely pay off for Palin in the long run but the probability that I would ever vote for Palin just went much lower.

Whatever Palin may have seemed to be in the past, she no longer seems to have any claim to truly conservative status. Looking more and more like a political wheeler and dealer.

Still, it's possible that she believes DeVore could not win against Boxer. In that case, improving the odds that Fiorina could do so could be considered a net win.

I mean, heck! In a race between Whitman and Brown I'll likely effectively endorse Brown. It's not that I think Brown's policies are wonderful - it's that Whitman would be much worse.

It's called strategy. If, in a war, you fight every battle which is offered - you'll lose. You have to fight the battles in which you have the upper hand - then you'll win the war. So if DeVore is a losing battle don't fight that battle. If Fiorina will help us toward ultimate victory - then her battle is ours.

Personally, I don't know that much about Fiorina. Doesn't recommend her highly that the last job I know of was at the helm of HP - and so far as I can tell she didn't do a stellar job there at all.

FirstFlight
05-06-2010, 3:20 PM
I have the highest respect for Sarah Palin. I won't go into all the details here but from a gun owners and 2A standpoint Sarah has proven herself to the most pro gun person in politics in the US at this time. She is always #1 on the list of speakers at NRA conventions. The liberal left has shown how pissed off they are at the fact that Sarah is a great white hunter in Alaska. She knows what she is doing. She sees a bigger political picture than we see. If she endorses Carly Fiornia than I will take a much closer look at Fiornia. I am not going to write off this endorsement just because she didn't show support for the most "conservative candidate" even though I am a supporter of the Tea Party movement.

Havoc70
05-06-2010, 3:38 PM
It's the same word that applies to the guy at the gunshows selling Mag Magnets to noobs for their BulletButtons.

Douchebag doesn't really apply, though, in the "for hire" context :).

IGOTDIRT4U
05-06-2010, 3:46 PM
As much as I found her to be an interesting firebrand in the elections, she sure must have some bad advisors in her camp, or she is a sole poor decision maker. Not good.

nk-1911
05-06-2010, 5:33 PM
That's disappointing.

M198
05-06-2010, 5:41 PM
"a number of her followers questioned why she would side with Fiorina instead of the more conservative candidate in the race, Assemblyman Chuck DeVore.
"

Because they share the same anatomy? This just shows what everyone already knows. Sarah Palin is a joke. She's the Harriet Miers of VP picks.

thebronze
05-06-2010, 9:07 PM
She just lost a lot of my support with that endorsement.

dantodd
05-06-2010, 9:11 PM
Because they share the same anatomy? This just shows what everyone already knows. Sarah Palin is a joke. She's the Harriet Miers of VP picks.

More likely reason is she sees a parade and wants to step out in front of it. No reason to jump on a losing bandwagon. She is not campaigning or trying to get Carly elected, she is trying to add "wins" to her resume. She will run for office again, on a national level and wants to be associated with as many winning candidates as possible up to the time she starts her own campaign.

five.five-six
05-06-2010, 9:14 PM
I <3 sara palin

Can'thavenuthingood
05-06-2010, 9:21 PM
If McClintock will never win in California because he is too conservative, then how do we expect DeVore to win if he is more conservative than Fiorina?

Brown is getting most of our gunnie votes because he is pro-gun, so he moves the right to the left in this case.

Pro gun Palin make an endorsement and gets skewered because Fiorina isn't conservative enough.

Circles.

Vick

GoodEyeSniper
05-06-2010, 9:43 PM
Wait, were you actually expecting Sarah Palin to make an intelligent decision on something?

Palin?

kcbrown
05-06-2010, 9:49 PM
Pro gun Palin make an endorsement and gets skewered because Fiorina isn't conservative enough.


It's not because Fiorina isn't conservative enough, it's because she's an authoritarian. One need only examine how she did things at HP to see that.

Such people tend to prefer big government as long as it's pro-big-business.

This endorsement proves that Palin does not endorse people based on their principles. And for that, she has swayed my opinion of her from neutral to negative.

otteray
05-06-2010, 9:51 PM
"a number of her followers questioned why she would side with Fiorina instead of the more conservative candidate in the race, Assemblyman Chuck DeVore.
"

Because they share the same anatomy? This just shows what everyone already knows. Sarah Palin is a joke. She's the Harriet Miers of VP picks.

Because the Huffington site said it a couple years ago? Get real. Or at least original. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-levine/sarah-palin-the-new-harri_b_122582.html
I may not vote for her for prez , she may not be right 100% of the time, but she is no joke. Everyone already knows that.

N6ATF
05-06-2010, 9:57 PM
Palin's an idioconservative, like George W. Bush. Act like an idiot conservative to get elected. Idioconservatives are old hat now.

repomanNWP
05-06-2010, 10:20 PM
I told myself early on in this that I could not bring myself to vote for Carly Fiorina... she led Lucent right into the toilet, and followed suit at HP. She strikes me as a pandering politician that *WAY* oversells her corporate experience and success. In the private sector, she was a perfect example of the Peter Principle, where she clearly rose to her level of incompetence. Devore was my choice in this race ----- BUT, Devore can't beat Boxer, its that simple. As much as it pains me to say it. I want Boxer gone more than I want Devore to beat Fiorina. Palin is doing the cold calculation and making the more strategic political maneuver. I've always voted my conscience, without regard to picking winners, but this time its different. Boxer absolutely positively has to go. Fiorina will get my vote this time. I hope Chuck runs for another office down the road.

MSO4MATT
05-06-2010, 10:28 PM
It's not because Fiorina isn't conservative enough, it's because she's an authoritarian. One need only examine how she did things at HP to see that.

Such people tend to prefer big government as long as it's pro-big-business.

This endorsement proves that Palin does not endorse people based on their principles. And for that, she has swayed my opinion of her from neutral to negative.

Couldn't agree more. She ruined HP and will run government like a company, expanding power and size. Whitman will do the same. CEOs are bad for government, especially a government with the military force of the US...can't we elect someone who promises to restrain the power and size of government not simply fix what's broken. You need to amputate broken limbs at this point. The corruption has become an infectious growth that threatens the very life of the patient. Scalpel....please!

FirstFlight
05-07-2010, 5:58 AM
I told myself early on in this that I could not bring myself to vote for Carly Fiorina... she led Lucent right into the toilet, and followed suit at HP. She strikes me as a pandering politician that *WAY* oversells her corporate experience and success. In the private sector, she was a perfect example of the Peter Principle, where she clearly rose to her level of incompetence. Devore was my choice in this race ----- BUT, Devore can't beat Boxer, its that simple. As much as it pains me to say it. I want Boxer gone more than I want Devore to beat Fiorina. Palin is doing the cold calculation and making the more strategic political maneuver. I've always voted my conscience, without regard to picking winners, but this time its different. Boxer absolutely positively has to go. Fiorina will get my vote this time. I hope Chuck runs for another office down the road.

Very well said repomanNWP. You hit the nail on the head!

WokMaster1
05-07-2010, 8:05 AM
Could it be that she is setting us up to push more votes to Brown. Endorse bad Republican candidates so the voters will have no choice but to vote for Jerry? Is she up to something? Is she smart enough?

LiquidFlorian
05-07-2010, 9:06 AM
Here is an update to her Facebook post:
Update: I’d like to add a few things about my Carly endorsement because some reaction right out of the chute calls for more information:

Carly has been endorsed by the National Right to Life, the California Pro-Life Council, and the Susan B. Anthony List. She is pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, pro-military, and pro-strict border security and against amnesty. She is against Obamacare and will vote to repeal it and prevent the government takeover of private companies and industries. Carly is also a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. Like me, she is a member of the NRA, has a 100% NRA rating, and she and her husband are gun owners. (I didn't know that... Flo.) She is pro-energy development and believes as I do in an all-of-the-above approach to energy independence. She is against cap and tax. And most importantly, Carly is the only conservative in the race who can beat Barbara Boxer. That’s no RINO. That’s a winner.

- Sarah Palin

Sounds to me like she's picking who she things is the most likely to win.

johnny_22
05-07-2010, 9:08 AM
There was an excerpt this morning about "gun purchases by those on the terrorists watch list ".

Tom Campbell said this is wrong; no sales should occur. Chuck and Carly said OK. After that exchange, Tom said "Oh my..."

I am surprised that Carly is more pro-gun than Tom. I thought they were the same.

OleCuss
05-07-2010, 9:26 AM
I told myself early on in this that I could not bring myself to vote for Carly Fiorina... she led Lucent right into the toilet, and followed suit at HP. She strikes me as a pandering politician that *WAY* oversells her corporate experience and success. In the private sector, she was a perfect example of the Peter Principle, where she clearly rose to her level of incompetence. Devore was my choice in this race ----- BUT, Devore can't beat Boxer, its that simple. As much as it pains me to say it. I want Boxer gone more than I want Devore to beat Fiorina. Palin is doing the cold calculation and making the more strategic political maneuver. I've always voted my conscience, without regard to picking winners, but this time its different. Boxer absolutely positively has to go. Fiorina will get my vote this time. I hope Chuck runs for another office down the road.

Good points. Thank you!

Kyle1886
05-07-2010, 9:59 AM
The game of Chess and Politics have some similarities. All "moves" don't necessarily seem smart but there is plenty of game time as yet...

Respectfully
Kyle

FirstFlight
05-07-2010, 11:40 AM
Thanks for the input LiquidFlorian......It appears Sarah Palin's judgement in endorsing Carly was justified. Carly and her husband are both gun owners, Carly is a member of the NRA, and the NRA rates her 100%. Plus she has conservative values in all other important areas. If this is not enough to satisfy the California gunowners then I don't know what is. Remember, the bottom line is to BEAT Boxer!

a1c
05-07-2010, 11:44 AM
The kiss of death.

Sinixstar
05-07-2010, 11:56 AM
More likely reason is she sees a parade and wants to step out in front of it. No reason to jump on a losing bandwagon. She is not campaigning or trying to get Carly elected, she is trying to add "wins" to her resume. She will run for office again, on a national level and wants to be associated with as many winning candidates as possible up to the time she starts her own campaign.

I doubt she's going to run again. Her 'brand' has too much potential to make a lot of money. Running for public office exposes her to too much scrutiny which could (will) damage that brand.

She's interested in putting wins in her resume because you need something to point to in the political world to make yourself relevant. You have to either have demonstrative experience (such as a Karl Rove), Build your own Niche (such as a Glenn Beck), or spend years upon years toiling in the trenches to build credibility (Rush).

2-3 years ago, she was completely unknown outside of Alaska. She lacks distinction in any of the 3 areas I've mentioned, and therefore she lacks the commanding relevance needed to sustain her brand long-term.

Yes, she's influential now - but not so influential she couldn't be destroyed with a single word from someone like Beck or Limbaugh.

A year from now, nobody's going to remember the politics of her endorsement today. What will matter is that there will be a history of being on 'the winning side', and she gets viewed in that light. That's where she gains credibility.

With all that said - expect a lot of decisions like this. It's marketing. personal politics mean squat.

Sinixstar
05-07-2010, 12:01 PM
Because the Huffington site said it a couple years ago? Get real. Or at least original. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/art-levine/sarah-palin-the-new-harri_b_122582.html
I may not vote for her for prez , she may not be right 100% of the time, but she is no joke. Everyone already knows that.

Correct - to be a joke, you have to be funny. She's just frustrating and frightening.

OleCuss
05-07-2010, 12:29 PM
Come on guys. That hit piece in the Huffington Post is superficial and written more out of sneering condescension than a true examination of Palin.

She is, IMHO, neither as smart and capable as her fans think nor as stupid, naive, and incompetent as her detractors paint her.

Edit for a gratuitous slap at her: I very nearly hate her speaking voice - at least when she is giving a speech.

Doug L
05-07-2010, 1:48 PM
...CEOs are bad for government...

Very true.
CEO's are typically not motivated by those principles which tend to promote freedom and liberty.

repomanNWP
05-07-2010, 1:52 PM
Very true.
CEO's are typically not motivated by those principles which tend to promote freedom and liberty.

+1, totally agree. I was told a long time ago, you don't want lawyers running your company, and you don't want your business leaders running your government.

Midian
05-07-2010, 2:09 PM
Palin's a neocon puppet clod.

ja308
05-07-2010, 2:22 PM
Palin is a winner and I will follow her recommendation . I will vote Carly Fiorina.
Palin established her credibility when she fired anti gun police chief Ira stambaugh. And yes she fired him because he was anti gun.
Much as I like Chuck DeVore . This is still a state where the TV mentality wins elections.
Witness the Palin bashing!
JA308

SeanCasey
05-07-2010, 3:44 PM
I was searching and did not find an NRA rating for Fiorina.... Anyone able to find that and post the source to prove that claim?

Sinixstar
05-07-2010, 4:11 PM
I was searching and did not find an NRA rating for Fiorina.... Anyone able to find that and post the source to prove that claim?

I'm glad somebody else brought this up. Why would Fiorina have an NRA rating - she'd never held public office before. What are they rating her on?

But - when you're talking about Palin - you have to be careful not to confuse the issue with pesky things like "details" or "facts". that's just the "gotcha media" tricks you're used to. Just take statements at face value and do as you're told. :cool:

OleCuss
05-07-2010, 4:16 PM
I'm glad somebody else brought this up. Why would Fiorina have an NRA rating - she'd never held public office before. What are they rating her on?

But - when you're talking about Palin - you have to be careful not to confuse the issue with pesky things like "details" or "facts". that's just the "gotcha media" tricks you're used to. Just take statements at face value and do as you're told. :cool:

Ahem. . . Do you know who the former governor of Alaska is? Sarah Palin, of course!

Do you know just how onerous the gun control legislation is in Alaska? Pretty close to not at all. . .

She has a record - and on the RKBA it is excellent.

What was that about gotcha stuff? The facts and details look pretty good for Sarah Palin - was a popular governor (mentioned because most people don't seem to realize this).

SeanCasey
05-07-2010, 4:30 PM
Ahem. . . Do you know who the former governor of Alaska is? Sarah Palin, of course!

Do you know just how onerous the gun control legislation is in Alaska? Pretty close to not at all. . .

She has a record - and on the RKBA it is excellent.

What was that about gotcha stuff? The facts and details look pretty good for Sarah Palin - was a popular governor (mentioned because most people don't seem to realize this).

I believe he was questioning Palin's claim about Carly having a 100% score from the NRA... I question that claim as well.

Frankly, from being involved with HP at the time of the HP/Compaq merger I have seen up close how Carly works and it will be a cold day in hell before I vote for her. She is intelligent but a backstabber, plotter, and all about "power for me", and "if you question me I will trample you and your career".

Her "castration" of Mike Capellas and Compaq was preplanned during that "merger of equals" as evidenced by her giving the code names of Heloise (to HP) and Abelard (Compaq). Brilliant to announce it to the world and no one to notice unless they were familiar with the story of the affair between Heloise and Abelard. Very cunning. Anyhow, there was a lot of behind the scenes stuff that went on that I am not at liberty to talk about (NDA), but is sufficient enough for me to say even if she turns into the supposedly "perfect canidate", I will not be voting for her.

Sinixstar
05-07-2010, 4:34 PM
Ahem. . . Do you know who the former governor of Alaska is? Sarah Palin, of course!

Do you know just how onerous the gun control legislation is in Alaska? Pretty close to not at all. . .

She has a record - and on the RKBA it is excellent.

What was that about gotcha stuff? The facts and details look pretty good for Sarah Palin - was a popular governor (mentioned because most people don't seem to realize this).

We're not debating Palin's irrelevant record. She's not running for anything. We're talking about Fiorina's non-existent record. If someone would be so kind as to post a link to the NRA's "100% rating" on Fiornia's record and prove me wrong, please feel free to do so. So far the only thing the internets is yielding on the subject is Palin's statements.

I could care less about her (Palin) record on RKBA. Again, she's not running for public office, and even if she was, her record with a little thing called the truth - is pretty horrible.

edit:
it's also worth noting that there is NOTHING on the Carly Fiorina website that even mentioned the NRA, let alone anything about a "100% rating". Her statement on the 2nd is standard boiler plate about protecting rights.

OleCuss
05-07-2010, 4:43 PM
Thank y'all for the correction. My apologies for mis-reading/mis-understanding.

advocatusdiaboli
05-07-2010, 4:49 PM
First let's address sarah Palin's credibility and fitness for office.
When she had her chance at power as governor of Alaska, she used it unethically and had to quit to avoid further investigations having been already found guilty by a panel of majority Republicans. She quit to run a book tour and for money--she abandoned her public servant role for money. As John Cleese said, she's a talking parrot--she can repeat everything she is trained to say and sound good, but she has no understanding of what she is saying. We have proof of this in the several interview where you saw her mumble incoherently or just stare quizzically when asked question she hadn't been trained on. She stabbed McCain in the back the minute she saw a chance to improve her own position--it was always all about her and not him--this derailed his campaign and guaranteed the loss in November. She is not a team player--now she's dumped the Tea Party for a bigger, better deal. She dumped her responsibility to the people for money and because she got caught in self-dealing. Not an ethical person nor one voters should trust--and few do now.

Second, her endorsement
Since we know Palin isn't very bright, well-educated, or informed we know this endorsement has to be purely about money. Sarah is all about Sarah--damn the people. I know Fiorina all too well--I work in the tech industry and she is ill-suited for office. She has no record on 2A. She's doing this for the same reason Whitman and Schwarzenegger did it--she's filthy rich and bored. I want people who have a fire in their belly about this nation, it's constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the people. Not rich bored folks who figure they'll dabble or in Palin's case, cheap xxxxx who grab for money over duty. These are challenging times and we the people cannot afford either.

Boxer Must Be Defeated
I want Boxer defeated, but Fiorina isn't polling well. And I don't trust Palin at all. It's Devore or Campbell for me--need to check their 2A platforms and other key issues before I decide. We need educated, intelligent conservatives who will protect our rights--not parrots who abandon their duty for cash and personal gain. NOr bored rich people who will sell us out like the Governator did on the Ammo Ban. They cannot be trusted to stay when it gets tough.

Sinixstar
05-07-2010, 4:54 PM
Another note on potential side-effects of a Palin endorsement.
Democrats are generally pretty apathetic right now. Someone like Fiorina who is a bit of an unknown quantity in politics, but can talk an appealing line to the voters has a good shot.

However, I can guarantee you that with Palin's endorsement, the left will now be energized. Do not be surprised if there's a surge in fundraising from the left, and if advertising focusing on the endorsement goes out against Fiorina. Palin is a polarizing figure, and while she might help bring out 'the base' - she's also going to bring out the base of the left - which otherwise may have not bothered.

Steyr_223
05-07-2010, 5:11 PM
http://www.businesspundit.com/10-reasons-people-hate-carly-fiorina/

Carly Fiorina, one of corporate America’s most powerful women, is reinventing herself. In 1999, Fiorina ditched her successful sales and marketing career at AT&T and Lucent Technologies to become CEO of Hewlett Packard. In 2002, she spearheaded what was at the time the biggest IT merger in the nation by acquiring Compaq Computer. Three tumultuous years later, the Board of Directors booted her–with a cool $21 million in severance.

Since then, Fiorina has capitalized off her controversial image by writing a book and becoming involved in conservative politics. Recently, John McCain took her under his wing as campaign chairman. Fiorina’s charisma, history as a power woman, and–let’s face it–Hillary-esque pantsuits and cropped blond hairdo–are supposed to endow her to legions of female swing voters.

Still, her tarnished reputation from HP remains. History has seen to it that Fiorina’s controversial personality and business moves left a stronger aftertaste than her considerable strengths. (Fiorina’s strategy may have provided more long-term benefit than people anticipated. HP eventually did see some good quarters after merging with Compaq.)

So what combination of traits made Carly Fiorina so undesirable to the media, her employees, stockholders, and Wall Street? Why do people hate her?

10. She didn’t take the time to build trust.

Strong-arm tactics work well in certain situations, but good leaders need legitimacy to back them up. One major way leaders achieve legitimacy is by gaining the trust of their employees. Fiorina came in with a mandate of change, but didn’t make any effort to build trust between herself and the company. Indeed, she sullied her image by exalting herself without regard to her employees’ reactions.

Buying a personal jet in front of a distrustful and alienated workforce is one example. Freezing employee salaries while giving herself and her executive ilk bonuses is another. Doing these things in light of nearly 18,000 employee dismissals (2003) is just plain callous.

9. She didn’t provide numbers to back up her promises.

She promised better shareholder returns and increased profits, but in execution, Fiorina’s $19 billion Compaq acquisition looked disastrous. In the short term, millions of stakeholders lost equity. Fiorina lacked numbers to back up her choice, and lacked legitimacy to make people believe she’d done the right thing for the company’s long-run future. (The company pulled off record computer sales years after Fiorina left.)

The company didn’t collapse. In fact, HP managed to double its sales in the period between 2000 and 2005. However, most of the increase was due to its pre-existing printing business (think replacement ink cartridges), which accounted for nearly 80% of operating profits in the first quarter of 2005.

8. She favored market dogma over innovation.

In IT, that’s a death knell. Though reports indicate she continued to support HP’s talented R&D staff, she tried to engineer HP’s expansion into an aging PC market rather than new avenues. She had people capable of creating flagship products–Apple’s iPod comes to mind–but didn’t harness their capabilities. This move may have cost the company incalculable opportunities.

7. During her time in office, she didn’t successfully implement her own vision.

Fiorina came in with a self-discovered mandate to shake up what she saw as a stale company and stake out territory for a bigger, more diverse HP. Changing the company slogan to “invent” is an example of one of her refurbishing tactics.

The problem is that she never managed to execute her own plans. She shook the company up, but never settled it down afterwards. She expanded HP’s product line, but never delivered the financial results to back up her decision. She had a sweet slogan, but, as tech reporter Larry Magid puts it, “whatever inventions HP came up with simply were not inspiring enough to change the company’s fate.”

6. She failed to preserve HP’s key cultural assets.

On her website biography, Fiorina claims that “The HP Way was being used as a shield against change.” Surely a possibility at the time. Still, the HP Way had many benefits, not the least of which was a capacity to empower its own employees. By implementing a top-down management structure that hobbled employees’ abilities to communicate effectively with managers, Fiorina threw out one of the company’s biggest assets without considering its worth–the old baby with the bathwater maxim.

5. She lacked focus.

Her plans were too diffuse to be effective. Here are the many things Fiorina tried to do at once:

-Compete with Dell in the low-cost PC market
-Compete with IBM in the consulting and services sectors
-Compete with Dell and Gateway by producing home entertainment products
-Become familiar and legitimate in the public eye by talking to the press nonstop
-Get the company a celebrity image with the likes of Gwen Stefani
-Undertake the biggest merger in IT history (at the time)

Her energy was so scattered that none of these ideas came to fruition.

4. She didn’t listen.

Fiorina spent most of her tenure at HP opposing shareholders, the board, and public opinion. Mother Jones provides an example:

In March 2004, after HP shareholders voted 1.21 billion to 925 million to expense stock options, she opposed the move, essentially opting to stick with accounting practices (that were used by other corporations) that did not reveal a company’s true value.

3. She was a bad manager.

Fiorina delegated all important operational tasks to her core team of chosen executives, rather than the directors traditionally in charge of certain divisions. It smacked of cronyism, but Fiorina did nothing to assuage such perceptions. Moreover, she radically restructured HP’s corporate innards to create a chain of command from the top down. In a company accustomed to bottom-up collaboration and teamwork, this move only served to distance her from the organization she was supposed to lead and manage.

2. She was a bad leader.

In a 2007 Stanford speech, Fiorina described a leader as someone who “changes the order of things.” If this explanation sounds a little blithe, it’s because she’s defending her own qualities. She lacked in the key areas that define a good leader. Good leaders motivate and empower people. Their followers trust them. They follow through on their word.

Fiorina lacked all of those traits. Her word was her vision, but all the public could see was short-term collapse. She failed to build trust. Her restructuring alienated employees; her post-merger layoffs added another blow to company motivation; and her celebrity marketing campaigns (she appeared on stage with Gwen Stefani, who was supposed to design products for HP) no doubt further peeved off people concerned with pithy items like job security and financial loss.

1. She won’t admit to her own failures.

She continues to give popular conceptions of her reign the finger by invoking language of herself as a victim. Here’s another excerpt from her website:

After striving my entire career to be judged by my results and my decisions, the coverage of my gender, my appearance and perceptions of my personality would outweigh anything else.ť

(Fiorina) was an outsider in every way imaginable, the first CEO not promoted from within; a woman leader in a male-dominated culture; a marketing expert in a company that worshipped engineers; an easterner surrounded by Silicon Valley lifers.

Respectable, to be sure. But the female-outsider-marketing expert facets don’t outweigh her failures as a chief officer. After all, nobody tore eBay’s Meg Whitman to pieces. Fiorina would help her own reputation to acknowledge her shortcomings, whether she feels they’re legitimate or not.

I think Fiorina takes the public stance she does in order to defend herself from media lynch mobs. Nonetheless, evidence warrants her mixed reputation. If she ever wants to be remembered as more than notorious, she needs to practice the art of acquiescence.

GrayWolf09
05-08-2010, 12:16 AM
And the noise you hear in the background are not gunshots but champagne corks popping in Babs suite. Granted BB is not the sharpest knife in the drawer and she has some real flakiness issues, but if she were to pick the ideal candidate to run against in uncertain economic times with high unemployment it would be the failed CEO of a major corporation who fired a bunch of people, shipped a bunch of jobs offshore and when she was fired herself got a $21 million golden parachute. Someone most people can identify with. Oh yeah, Fiorina also has a penchant for shooting from the lip. Might as well nominate DeVore and have a contrast in principles. Fiorina looks like an almost sure loser.

bandook
05-08-2010, 1:25 AM
One more reason not to vote for Carly....

2Cute2Shoot
05-08-2010, 1:28 AM
Will I get flamed for saying 'girl power'?

PBRStreetgang
05-08-2010, 1:48 AM
I'm hoping the endorsement hurts more than helps. Although Palin is pro 2A, she has made some sketching decisions. advocatusdiaboli has it pretty accurate above. The semi recent USA Today polls showed that most conservative don't care for her, don't care what she has to say, and wouldn't vote for her. I fear the GOP will be swayed again and run her against Obama in 2012, whereas we'll surely get Obama for 4 more years.

lioneaglegriffin
05-08-2010, 1:59 AM
Will I get flamed for saying 'girl power'?

sexist!

i kid. ;)

but i really don't care who wins they all look like they suck for one reason or another (like most politicians, but these more so). If a liberal is going to rep. us it might as well be babs and not these republicans.

in the words of alien vs. predator
Whoever wins-We lose.

Midian
05-08-2010, 6:40 AM
To advocatusdiaboli:

Testify. You're right on the money.

yellowfin
05-08-2010, 7:28 AM
The kiss of death.Exactly, and I think this might be reverse psychology in play. She might be full aware that endorsing Fiorina will make people not want to vote for her, so she'll do that deliberately to help Devore.

BluNorthern
05-08-2010, 7:59 AM
advocatusdiaboli..
Very good analysis of Sarah..straight and to the point. It's all about the money and herself. I have no respect at all for anyone who would give up an elected position of trust in the middle of their term for more bucks. Commitment and duty goes a long way with me.

1st5
05-08-2010, 8:20 AM
According to Karl Rove on FOX last night Palin endorsed Carly only because they were the two top females in the McCain campaign. They are tight personal friends. Palin HAD to endorse Carly.

Do not stray from Chuck DeVore folks because of this endorsement. He is still the most conservative pro-2A candidate we have in this race!

advocatusdiaboli
05-08-2010, 9:13 AM
According to Karl Rove on FOX last night Palin endorsed Carly only because they were the two top females in the McCain campaign. They are tight personal friends. Palin HAD to endorse Carly.

First Karl Rove is an excellent spinmeister (I respect his skill--he's the best) so he came up with a good spin to save face for everyone.

Second, I expect honorable politicians that serve the people to endorse the best person for public service and not out of friendship and personal gain--the latter I suspect is more important to Sarah Palin that the former given her public track record.

Perhaps some examples of what I mean:

George Washington was not picked as the Colonial Army general because of friendship--he was a natural leader and an experienced officer even though he made some mistakes in the F&I War.

Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence solo though John Adams assisted in editing. Adams wanted the job as did others, but they all knew Jefferson was the best writer and had the clearest and farthest vision. No one appointed friends--they picked the best man for the job in duty to the nascent nation. And historians and legislative, and executive branches are still unclear what he meant in "the pursuit of happiness" as a legal right and term. But it's expansive enough to stand the test of time. I like it. :)

If we accept any less than this guidance, we will diminish their dream--we will have already sold it short before we start the election.

Doug L
05-08-2010, 9:55 AM
Exactly, and I think this might be reverse psychology in play. She might be full aware that endorsing Fiorina will make people not want to vote for her, so she'll do that deliberately to help Devore.

Maybe, too clever by half???

Doug L
05-08-2010, 10:01 AM
First Karl Rove is an excellent spinmeister... [Ed. 'nough said.]

George Washington was not picked as the Colonial Army general because of friendship...

Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence solo though John Adams assisted in editing...

Well stated.

Karl Rove vs. Washington and Jefferson. My, how far we've sunk!

advocatusdiaboli
05-08-2010, 10:03 AM
Maybe, too clever by half???

More likely. Palin brings a knife to the mental gun fight of debate.
The Clintons and Obamas, our adversaries on constitutional issues, bring SAWs and LAWs (sorry for the pun). Fortunately there are plenty of fools in their party also. It isn't just about intelligence but it is a key attribute of the kind of leader we need for 2A fencing with those folks.

Further, Sarah Plain simply isn't that clever she is a practitioner of perverse not reverse psychology.

FirstFlight
05-08-2010, 11:48 AM
I was searching and did not find an NRA rating for Fiorina.... Anyone able to find that and post the source to prove that claim?

For a candidate that has not held public office the NRA sends them a questionaire to fill out. They are then graded from the questionaire answers and what the candidate has said referencing the 2A and gun issues in general. One can find Grades and Endorsements at www.nrapvf.org The California Grades and Endorsements for the Primary Election will be made public soon. Right now they are up for Primary Elections being held on May 11, 18 and June1.

nk-1911
05-08-2010, 12:36 PM
Just got an email from Devore about the debate tomorrow morning.

"Be sure you tune into ABC tomorrow (Sunday, May 9th) at 11:00 AM PST to see the big debate between Chuck DeVore, Carly Fiorina, and Tom Campbell."

SeanCasey
05-08-2010, 2:15 PM
For a candidate that has not held public office the NRA sends them a questionaire to fill out. They are then graded from the questionaire answers and what the candidate has said referencing the 2A and gun issues in general. One can find Grades and Endorsements at www.nrapvf.org (http://www.nrapvf.org) The California Grades and Endorsements for the Primary Election will be made public soon. Right now they are up for Primary Elections being held on May 11, 18 and June1.

Well that was my point, Carly is not listed on there, yet Palin is saying she is a 100%.

So this means one of two things:
A: She is full of it, and making up stuff to save face
B: She has inside information that is not available to the public yet

I was just looking for someone to get information to indicate if it was A or B. If its B, thats great, but could it be A?

advocatusdiaboli
05-08-2010, 2:20 PM
B: She has inside information that is not available to the public yet

Palin has a lot of information not available to the public, but most of it is about her unethical behavior and none of it is about Fiorina and 2A.

If Fiorina wanted to, she could have made her 2A position well-known by now--apparently she doesn't think it a priority. And that's enough for me to see her as another bored rich person like Schwarzenegger who is running for office because their money says they can. They have no fire in the belly to serve and will screw us in the end.

otteray
05-08-2010, 7:06 PM
Palin has a lot of information not available to the public, but most of it is about her unethical behavior and none of it is about Fiorina and 2A.

I
Please, elaborate if you have insider knowledge. You seem to be on a real Palin bashing tear here.
While I agree she may not be the best current choice for Prez or VP, especially with all the hatefulness for her going on here, at the John Stewart Daily Show and at the Huffington Post; I personally don't think she is the evil Darth Vader that you are painting her as.
I read her book; it was not that exciting, but had some good insights and perspectives that contradict your disdain for her.
For instance, the bi-partisan panel found her guilty. Of what? Trying to get rid of a really bad person that was a drunken bully and:
* Wooten used a Taser on his stepson.
* He illegally shot a moose.
* He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.
* He told others his father-in-law would “eat a f’ing lead bullet” if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce.
He had a long history of being worthless and a bad apple.


By the way, I do agree that Devore is a much better choice than Fiorina.
I just find the Sarah Palin bashing a bit over the top.

advocatusdiaboli
05-08-2010, 8:08 PM
Please, elaborate if you have insider knowledge.


She knows of her unethical use of her government status to pursue her daugther's ex-husband--which is the root of her ethics troubles.. You don't. So that's my proof. Ask her.
You seem to be on a real Palin bashing tear here.


Facts are not bashing. Everything I said was based on facts that have come to light about her. A lot of people here agree with me. If you don't want to believe anything bad about her and ignore facts, fine. I am not going to waste time trying to convince you if the abundant facts have not. Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect--you need help understanding why you think she's so awesome--it's because she says so and you long to have a hero to believe in. Don't be taken in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
I am not going to spar with a person who will not do his own research or if he does, filters out facts until he's left with a pre-determined conclusion. It's not worth my precious time.

As Winston Churchill said (parphrased):

"Don't wrestle with a pig in the mud--you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it".

otteray
05-08-2010, 8:25 PM
She knows of her unethical use of her government status to pursue her daugther's ex-husband--which is the root of her ethics troubles.. You don't. So that's my proof. Ask her.


Facts are not bashing. Everything I said was based on facts that have come to light about her. A lot of people here agree with me. If you don't want to believe anything bad about her and ignore facts, fine. I am not going to waste time trying to convince you if the abundant facts have not. Look up the Dunning-Kruger effect--you need help understanding why you think she's so awesome--it's because she says so and you long to have a hero to believe in. Don't be taken in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
I am not going to spar with a person who will not do his own research or if he does, filters out facts until he's left with a pre-determined conclusion. It's not worth my precious time.

As Winston Churchill said (parphrased):

"Don't wrestle with a pig n the mud--you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it".

Don't put false words in my mouth!
you need help understanding why you think she's so awesome--it's because she says so and you long to have a hero to believe in. Don't be taken in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
I don't have time for you either, with your superior attitude. Good riddance.

cmaynes
05-08-2010, 8:48 PM
Carly is anti gun- how the hell does it matter if Palin endorses her- personally, the fact that the NRA is supporting people like her, Beck and Ollie North is just shameful.


I might add- I am an NRA member and proud of it- I just dont like those mentioned- especially when one of them should be serving time in an Federal prison for laws against the Constitution.

Dwight K. Schrute
05-08-2010, 9:16 PM
No one's bothered to mention poll numbers?

Yes, DeVore is the clear choice for the Second Amendment. On the other hand, Campbell is clearly the worst choice.

RCP Average
Campbell 29.0
Fiorina 23.0
DeVore 10.8

DeVore looks like he's dunzo :shrug:

POLICESTATE
05-08-2010, 9:53 PM
I've always thought Palin is a bit of a dope, and full of herself. She only continues to strengthen my opinion in this regard.

At least she doesn't disappoint! :rolleyes:

abusalim81
05-09-2010, 3:05 AM
It must be nice to be available for sale to the highest bidder...What's the word for that??

.

The word for that is a prostitute or a more commonly used term; POLITICAL WHORE!

Can'thavenuthingood
05-09-2010, 8:24 AM
She has my full support:thumbsup:

Vick

advocatusdiaboli
05-09-2010, 9:43 AM
This is democracy, we can disagree but each of has a right to our opinion. I don't like Palin but I fully support the right of those to do so to keep and defend that belief. Doesn't mean I am not going to take them on verbally, but I will stand along side them if anyone tries to take their right to say it away. Freedom means having to allow people the right to say things you disagree with.

As for any ignorant, uneducated politician: I believe there are some tasks and duties in life that are so complex and the risks so great that we should trust only intelligent and educated people to attempt them: brain surgery is one and high office is another. Intelligence and education are not enough--Obama has both yet his character is lacking making him problematic. But intelligence and education are fundamental requirements--necessary but not sufficient: those who do not know history and cannot understand will condemn us to repeat it.

This is my fundamental issue with some Republican candidates--especially the ones who cherry-pick constitutional rights to enforce and other to throw away or think they know foreign policy because they can see Russia from their house.

Let's find smart, educated Republicans of strong moral character and promote them for high offices. No more bored rich people or dim bulbs. Are we saying as a party this is our best? If so we are already behind and the game has barely started. But I don't believe it. I know there are plenty of them out there so why are they not being brought forward? I have no answer but I am concerned.

Satex
05-09-2010, 10:30 AM
Palin is learning the political game quickly. She is supporting whoever she thinks may win, and in turn endorse her when she makes her next political move.

nk-1911
05-09-2010, 12:27 PM
This is democracy, we can disagree but each of has a right to our opinion. I don't like Palin but I fully support the right of those to do so to keep and defend that belief. Doesn't mean I am not going to take them on verbally, but I will stand along side them if anyone tries to take their right to say it away. Freedom means having to allow people the right to say things you disagree with.

As for any ignorant, uneducated politician: I believe there are some tasks and duties in life that are so complex and the risks so great that we should trust only intelligent and educated people to attempt them: brain surgery is one and high office is another. Intelligence and education are not enough--Obama has both yet his character is lacking making him problematic. But intelligence and education are fundamental requirements--necessary but not sufficient: those who do not know history and cannot understand will condemn us to repeat it.

This is my fundamental issue with some Republican candidates--especially the ones who cherry-pick constitutional rights to enforce and other to throw away or think they know foreign policy because they can see Russia from their house.
Let's find smart, educated Republicans of strong moral character and promote them for high offices. No more bored rich people or dim bulbs. Are we saying as a party this is our best? If so we are already behind and the game has barely started. But I don't believe it. I know there are plenty of them out there so why are they not being brought forward? I have no answer but I am concerned.

Let's set the record straight. It was Tina Fey who said that Not Palin.

Palin actaully said.
"They're our next-door neighbours and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."

Devore 2010 then Palin 2012.

gobler
05-09-2010, 7:24 PM
I think the over use and blind trust in wikipedia is scary. ANY source, especially an editable one, should be taken with a huge grain of salt. I have seen, on more then one occasion, wikipedia having information very wrong. Try at least three sources before trusting anything. The candidate of your choice should be the one who holds your beliefs closest... A Representative . DeVore and Larry Naritelli are mine. So I vote for them. Not who will beat who. I did not vote for Schwarzenegger and I can sleep at night with that simple thought. I did not help him into office.... ;) Palin backs Fiorina, fine. I don't have to vote her way.. I make up my own mind. In the long run I can give a rat's rear who backs who in politics.. They are mostly all shills for power hungry lobbyists.

Sinixstar
05-09-2010, 7:52 PM
Please, elaborate if you have insider knowledge. You seem to be on a real Palin bashing tear here.
While I agree she may not be the best current choice for Prez or VP, especially with all the hatefulness for her going on here, at the John Stewart Daily Show and at the Huffington Post; I personally don't think she is the evil Darth Vader that you are painting her as.
I read her book; it was not that exciting, but had some good insights and perspectives that contradict your disdain for her.
For instance, the bi-partisan panel found her guilty. Of what? Trying to get rid of a really bad person that was a drunken bully and:
* Wooten used a Taser on his stepson.
* He illegally shot a moose.
* He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.
* He told others his father-in-law would “eat a f’ing lead bullet” if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce.
He had a long history of being worthless and a bad apple.


By the way, I do agree that Devore is a much better choice than Fiorina.
I just find the Sarah Palin bashing a bit over the top.

The bi-partisan panel found her guilty of using her office in a way that was out of line for her to do. The fact that it was even referred to that panel is in it's self very telling. She filed the ethics complaint against herself in that matter specifically so it would have to be handled by that panel. (A "bipartisan panel" that she gets to hand-select btw). She then started the Alaska Fund Trust to raise money for her legal costs associated with the ethics complaint she filed against her self .
That Trust is now frozen, and she is under investigation for mis-using the money raised.

This is like a bad joke. This is something I would expect from a certain mayor in Chicago. This doesn't even get into the issues of using personal email accounts to conduct public business, bringing your significant other into confidential matters of state (through some of those emails), and then lying about it under oath (just recently at the trial of the kid who hacked her email address).

Do I care that she tried to get that guy fired? Not really. It's pretty irrelevant. When you look at all the stuff she had to pull to try to make it happen, and the trainwreck surrounding it, and then consider that she still didn't even get the guy fired right away -it's extremely telling about the kind of person she is.

Sinixstar
05-09-2010, 7:55 PM
Let's set the record straight. It was Tina Fey who said that Not Palin.

Palin actaully said.
"They're our next-door neighbours and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."

Devore 2010 then Palin 2012.


Again - it's the bigger point.

I can see the ocean from my house. That doesn't make me a marine biologist. I live not terribly far from a Federal Courthouse. That doesn't make me a lawyer.

The exact words - whether it was "i can see Russia from my house" or "we're practically neighbors" is irrelevant. The fact that she thinks living near Russia gives her foreign policy experience is what's eyebrow raising.

Sinixstar
05-09-2010, 8:00 PM
Here's something I propose to some of you. Ask yourself a very simple question.
When looking at some of the stuff Palin is accused of, ask yourself "If Bill Clinton did this...." or "If Obama did this...."

If you can sit there and tell me with a straight face that if these allegations were leveled against Obama and not Palin, that you would still be okay with it. Then by god - good for you. For some reason I think the reality is going to be a bit different then.

bwiese
05-09-2010, 8:36 PM
Carly is anti gun- how the hell does it matter if Palin endorses her- personally, the fact that the NRA is supporting people like her, Beck and Ollie North is just shameful.

Um how on the latter two?

Glen Beck is pro-gun.

Ollie North is pro-gun and is a sitting NRA Board Member.


I might add- I am an NRA member and proud of it- I just dont like those mentioned- especially when one of them should be serving time in an Federal prison for laws against the Constitution.If you're referring to Ollie... I disagree with Ollie on some of the extreme pro-religious things he says and somehow occasioanlly entangling-by-perception the NRA with it, but if someone can make a profit off of Iraqis killing Iranians for profit fed to anticommunists, hey I like that wagon train...


And while I think Palin voices some good concepts in general alignment with my politics, I don't think she has the mental acuity/background to be a disciplined winning candidate thjat won't go sideways on certain issues - so much so there is a very, very real chance an upcoming Palin vs Obama election will go to Obama.

FullMetalJacket
05-09-2010, 8:38 PM
I'd rather win with a candidate I agree with 80% of the time then lose with a candidate I agree with 95% of the time.

Because I disagree with the incumbent 99% of the time.

The "it's-a-real-conservative-or-I-ain't-voting" routine gets people like Obama elected. McCain may not be everyone's ideal, but wouldn't you really rather he were the one putting judges on the Supreme Court?

nk-1911
05-09-2010, 11:05 PM
Here's something I propose to some of you. Ask yourself a very simple question.
When looking at some of the stuff Palin is accused of, ask yourself "If Bill Clinton did this...." or "If Obama did this...."

If you can sit there and tell me with a straight face that if these allegations were leveled against Obama and not Palin, that you would still be okay with it. Then by god - good for you. For some reason I think the reality is going to be a bit different then.

I think Sarah Palin is now the most hated person on the political stage today. She is hated mostly by people on the left and the main stream media. They hated her like they hated Dick Chaney. They hate the fact that Palin has the ability to connect with the grassroots. That really scare them. She has a lot of supporters around the country. People on the left are trying everything to destroy her reputation. They are throwing a lot of allegations out there and see what stick. When she was running as mcCain's running mate her approval rating in Alaska was 80%, if I recall correctly. She put the governor's jet on Ebay when she was elected. The state of Alaska had budget surplus. I wish I could say the same for California's budget. I think she has way more experience than Obama who was a half term senator and his real claim to fame was a community organizer. Palin is a strong 2A supporter. She's fiscal conservative. She believes in small government. And most importantly she is strong on national defense. That's a big win to me. I can't say that about our current prez. This guy screwed our allies and bow down to our enemies. He's making Jimmy Carter very proud. I'm affraid we are about to be tested by our enemies in the near futur, Iran came to mind.
I hope to see Palin + Bachmann for 2012.

Sinixstar
05-09-2010, 11:21 PM
I think Sarah Palin is now the most hated person on the political stage today. She is hated mostly by people on the left and the main stream media. They hated her like they hated Dick Chaney. They hate the fact that Palin has the ability to connect with the grassroots. That really scare them. She has a lot of supporters around the country. People on the left are trying everything to destroy her reputation. They are throwing a lot of allegations out there and see what stick. When she was running as mcCain's running mate her approval rating in Alaska was 80%, if I recall correctly. She put the governor's jet on Ebay when she was elected. The state of Alaska had budget surplus. I wish I could say the same for California's budget. I think she has way more experience than Obama who was a half term senator and his real claim to fame was a community organizer. Palin is a strong 2A supporter. She's fiscal conservative. She believes in small government. And most importantly she is strong on national defense. That's a big win to me. I can't say that about our current prez. This guy screwed our allies and bow down to our enemies. He's making Jimmy Carter very proud. I'm affraid we are about to be tested by our enemies in the near futur, Iran came to mind.
I hope to see Palin + Bachmann for 2012.

I wanted to avoid getting into a debate about Palin's history - but some of these are just too much to pass up.

The infamous plane on ebay:
After going unsold for months, the jet was put into the hands of Turbo North Aviation, an Anchorage aircraft broker, which put an asking price of $2.45 million on the nearly $2.7 million jet. It quickly sold to Alaska businessman Larry Reynolds for $2.1 million ($31,000 of which went to Turbo Aviation).

She had an 80% approval rating. Sure - If Obama was sending out thousands of dollars of wealth redistribution checks to every american I bet his Approval rating would be in the sky as well. The reason why there was a budget surplus was because they taxed the hell out of the oil industry in Alaska. It was those taxes that were used to send out those "rebate checks" to every Alaskan. When you look at that program - it is in fact socialism in it's purest form. For someone who believes in such conservative values, it's interesting that she would partake in such a program. Fiscal Conservative? Small Government? How does that Jive? Strong on National Defense? how do you define that exactly? Is it the number of wars you fight? Is it the amount of money you spend on the military? Is it something you say, or something you do? What exactly makes her strong and other people weak?

As far as 'the grassroots' and all that is concerned, 'grassroots' isn't a *thing* you can connect with. You either connect with people on an individual level, or you do not. That's all "grassroots" means. Ron Paul and Howard Dean connected with "the grassroots" better then Palin and Obama combined. Where'd that get them? As far as hating her, I think a lot of it is more feeling insulted. A lot of the people I know who hate her feel insulted in her acting like she can just say whatever she wants, regardless of the truth. Whether you agree with her politics or not - you have to admit a lot of things she says simply do not add up, and do not jive with the reality of her actions.
Again, take the left vs right, the personalities, and the talking points out of the equation - and just look at her actions while in office. It's disgusting. She's no better then any other of the long list of pols from both sides of the aisle that should be ashamed of themselves.

lioneaglegriffin
05-10-2010, 12:40 AM
I think Sarah Palin is now the most hated person on the political stage today. She is hated mostly by people on the left and the main stream media. They hated her like they hated Dick Chaney. They hate the fact that Palin has the ability to connect with the grassroots. That really scare them. She has a lot of supporters around the country. People on the left are trying everything to destroy her reputation. They are throwing a lot of allegations out there and see what stick. When she was running as mcCain's running mate her approval rating in Alaska was 80%, if I recall correctly. She put the governor's jet on Ebay when she was elected. The state of Alaska had budget surplus. I wish I could say the same for California's budget. I think she has way more experience than Obama who was a half term senator and his real claim to fame was a community organizer. Palin is a strong 2A supporter. She's fiscal conservative. She believes in small government. And most importantly she is strong on national defense. That's a big win to me. I can't say that about our current prez. This guy screwed our allies and bow down to our enemies. He's making Jimmy Carter very proud. I'm affraid we are about to be tested by our enemies in the near futur, Iran came to mind.
I hope to see Palin + Bachmann for 2012.

moar than obama? :eek:

Dr. Peter Venkman
05-10-2010, 1:18 AM
I think Sarah Palin is now the most hated person on the political stage today. She is hated mostly by people on the left and the main stream media. They hated her like they hated Dick Chaney. They hate the fact that Palin has the ability to connect with the grassroots. That really scare them. She has a lot of supporters around the country. People on the left are trying everything to destroy her reputation. They are throwing a lot of allegations out there and see what stick. When she was running as mcCain's running mate her approval rating in Alaska was 80%, if I recall correctly. She put the governor's jet on Ebay when she was elected. The state of Alaska had budget surplus. I wish I could say the same for California's budget. I think she has way more experience than Obama who was a half term senator and his real claim to fame was a community organizer. Palin is a strong 2A supporter. She's fiscal conservative. She believes in small government. And most importantly she is strong on national defense. That's a big win to me. I can't say that about our current prez. This guy screwed our allies and bow down to our enemies. He's making Jimmy Carter very proud. I'm affraid we are about to be tested by our enemies in the near futur, Iran came to mind.
I hope to see Palin + Bachmann for 2012.

(Quoting another forum's member)

Maybe they hate her because she quit her job to be with her family.

Then she went on a book tour.

Then she became a Fox News correspondent.

Then she campaigned for John McCain.

Then she started going on a speaking tour.

?

Mad Scotsman
05-17-2010, 6:55 PM
I'm still on the fence with this one. All I know is Boxer MUST be gone.

ned946
05-17-2010, 8:30 PM
I have a question.......since Sarah Palin is basically just an average joe now, she holds not office nor is she running for one.....why does anyone care what she has to say? Why does her endorsement carry anymore weight then other person walking down the street?

She is the most REAL candidate (or WAS) out of any candidate in the old traditional sense of the word.

NOT being a professional politician is EXACTLY what I want.

Not some damn wind bag of lies, R or D.

I really like her and hope she gets in at some level. :usa:

Ironmany2k
05-17-2010, 8:33 PM
Carly will be easily destroyed by the Boxer Campaign machine. Just look at her record as described on this forum. Now imagine what BB's team will do, especially in this economy. DeVore is squeaky clean with an honorable military record. He is conservative but he has no baggage.

Vote Chuck DeVore

thebronze
05-17-2010, 8:44 PM
Carly will be easily destroyed by the Boxer Campaign machine. Just look at her record as described on this forum. Now imagine what BB's team will do, especially in this economy. DeVore is squeaky clean with an honorable military record. He is conservative but he has no baggage.

Vote Chuck DeVore

THIS!

Theseus
05-17-2010, 10:00 PM
I wanted to avoid getting into a debate about Palin's history - but some of these are just too much to pass up.

The infamous plane on ebay:


She had an 80% approval rating. Sure - If Obama was sending out thousands of dollars of wealth redistribution checks to every american I bet his Approval rating would be in the sky as well. The reason why there was a budget surplus was because they taxed the hell out of the oil industry in Alaska. It was those taxes that were used to send out those "rebate checks" to every Alaskan. When you look at that program - it is in fact socialism in it's purest form. For someone who believes in such conservative values, it's interesting that she would partake in such a program. Fiscal Conservative? Small Government? How does that Jive? Strong on National Defense? how do you define that exactly? Is it the number of wars you fight? Is it the amount of money you spend on the military? Is it something you say, or something you do? What exactly makes her strong and other people weak?

As far as 'the grassroots' and all that is concerned, 'grassroots' isn't a *thing* you can connect with. You either connect with people on an individual level, or you do not. That's all "grassroots" means. Ron Paul and Howard Dean connected with "the grassroots" better then Palin and Obama combined. Where'd that get them? As far as hating her, I think a lot of it is more feeling insulted. A lot of the people I know who hate her feel insulted in her acting like she can just say whatever she wants, regardless of the truth. Whether you agree with her politics or not - you have to admit a lot of things she says simply do not add up, and do not jive with the reality of her actions.
Again, take the left vs right, the personalities, and the talking points out of the equation - and just look at her actions while in office. It's disgusting. She's no better then any other of the long list of pols from both sides of the aisle that should be ashamed of themselves.

It was my understanding that the tax on the oil companies was for the right to drill for oil on lands they didn't own. The redistribution was actually the payment to the people for the use of the resource they all had partial ownership in? Am I just that misinformed?

nk-1911
05-17-2010, 10:57 PM
It was my understanding that the tax on the oil companies was for the right to drill for oil on lands they didn't own. The redistribution was actually the payment to the people for the use of the resource they all had partial ownership in? Am I just that misinformed?

Yes, you are right. It's not redistribution of wealth. Everyone got the rebate. I got tired of arguing with the guy. His mind is set and it's pointless to keep going.