PDA

View Full Version : CA gripless AR question?


gidddy169
03-05-2006, 9:51 PM
WHy doesn't someone just make a grip similar to the fabtens atf approved grip but move the bar to the top of where the grip attaches so it is above the trigger so the web of your hand is forced to be above the trigger?

blkA4alb
03-05-2006, 10:00 PM
WHy doesn't someone just make a grip similar to the fabtens atf approved grip but move the bar to the top of where the grip attaches so it is above the trigger so the web of your hand is forced to be above the trigger?
i was thinking along those lines also, maybe someone with photoshop can mock us up an image. but im just not sure how practical it would be, im not gonna get my hopes up.

fun2none
03-05-2006, 10:45 PM
WHy doesn't someone just make a grip similar to the fabtens atf approved grip but move the bar to the top of where the grip attaches so it is above the trigger so the web of your hand is forced to be above the trigger?

It's easier just to get rid of the grip extension entirely. And then you end it with the SRB (spring retaining bracket) that bu-bye is making available.

Check it out in this thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=28718

Jicko
03-06-2006, 9:20 AM
Is the Fab10 ATF approved grip CA legal!? Can we use that grip?

Hanniballs
03-06-2006, 9:28 AM
Is the Fab10 ATF approved grip CA legal!? Can we use that grip?

Its ATF approved, not CA DOJ Approved. Word has it the DOJ isn't commenting on the FAB10 grip.

ohsmily
03-06-2006, 9:47 AM
Basically, you use that Fab10 grip at your peril. It may not be legal, but no one will have a definitive answer until someone is arrested for it and either prosecuted or not. And, unlike some other things regarding this AR situation, it does NOT have the "blessing" of the DOJ which while it would not shield you from arrest and prosecution, it would be a nice piece of evidence in your favor showing that it is legal.

bwiese
03-06-2006, 10:28 AM
Is the Fab10 ATF approved grip CA legal!? Can we use that grip?

ATF approved was good enough for the Fed AWB but is now irrelevant.

To me this is not at all clear w/respect to 978.20 pistol grip definition - unlike the clear definition of detachable mag there, which clearly delineates the fixed magazines in our post-2000 off-list lower builds.

ARBITER
03-06-2006, 12:43 PM
Sorry I'm late responding, I have two gun compliant grips left over from the year 2000 for the AK they were ATF approved not to be a pistol grip but a thumb rest. I also remember there was one for the AR. I tried their WEB but its not there. Heres the address and phone # 714-542-0818 www.guncompliantstocks.com E-MAIL gungrips@excite.com

shopkeep
03-06-2006, 3:09 PM
ATF approved was good enough for the Fed AWB but is now irrelevant.

To me this is not at all clear w/respect to 978.20 pistol grip definition - unlike the clear definition of detachable mag there, which clearly delineates the fixed magazines in our post-2000 off-list lower builds.

If you ask me Bill, I think we probably shouldn't be messing around with detachable magazine configurations. We should just leave them as fixed mag builds and then if we are utterly defeated by the DOJ and forced to reg these as SB-23 builds we can worry about detachable magazine builds then. Once these are already AWs there's more room to fool around.

bwiese
03-06-2006, 3:24 PM
If you ask me Bill, I think we probably shouldn't be messing around with detachable magazine configurations. We should just leave them as fixed mag builds and then if we are utterly defeated by the DOJ and forced to reg these as SB-23 builds we can worry about detachable magazine builds then. Once these are already AWs there's more room to fool around.

I disagree.

Assuming you don't have a grip anywhere nearby to avoid any risk of constructive possession, the gripless off-list AR gun w/detachable mag is clearly legal (providing no telestock or flash hider either). There's no extraneous parts for which to worry about the legality or interpretation, so gripless A2 rifle bare muzzle or muzzle brake is legally very 'clean' solution.

While fixed mags are legal due to (to me, the very clear) 978.20 detachable mag definition apparently Iggy and crew are making (likely idle) threats - more likely to dealers than individuals...

shopkeep
03-06-2006, 5:58 PM
I disagree.

Assuming you don't have a grip anywhere nearby to avoid any risk of constructive possession, the gripless off-list AR gun w/detachable mag is clearly legal (providing no telestock or flash hider either). There's no extraneous parts for which to worry about the legality or interpretation, so gripless A2 rifle bare muzzle or muzzle brake is legally very 'clean' solution.

While fixed mags are legal due to (to me, the very clear) 978.20 detachable mag definition apparently Iggy and crew are making (likely idle) threats - more likely to dealers than individuals...

I wasn't questioning the legality of detachable configurations such as the SRB. I do however question the FAB-10 ATF grip (I am somewhat confident it constitutes a pistol grip. The DOJ letter regarding the Barrett thumb hook grip tells us there is a possiblity for a CA Legal detachable mag AR.

My point was simply: it's probably better to just fix the mag and wait to see what happens with the list and the DOJ memo.

gidddy169
03-10-2006, 10:27 PM
I have another question if these brackets to hold the spring in for the selector are legal with a detachable magazine why couldn't someone just cut off the pistol grip and use the upper part to hold the spring in for the selector rather than make a metal bracket? I think the plastic from the pistol grip would be easier to work with.

ohsmily
03-10-2006, 10:47 PM
I have another question if these brackets to hold the spring in for the selector are legal with a detachable magazine why couldn't someone just cut off the pistol grip and use the upper part to hold the spring in for the selector rather than make a metal bracket? I think the plastic from the pistol grip would be easier to work with.

this has been covered many times...b/c the remaining part of the pistol grip provides a place for the web of the hand to grab the gun and fire it possibly with a "pistol style grasp". That is why the bracket is being made....

gidddy169
03-11-2006, 7:56 AM
I was justr thinking you could also sand or file that part down to just a plastic "U" or "L" bracket like the metalone.

dwtt
03-11-2006, 8:11 AM
I was justr thinking you could also sand or file that part down to just a plastic "U" or "L" bracket like the metalone.
Do you mean like this one?
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f276/dwtt/Picture001.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f276/dwtt/Picture002.jpg

and when installed, after cutting down the safety selector detent spring, it looks like this
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f276/dwtt/Cimg0092.jpg

gmcem50
03-11-2006, 11:29 AM
How do you hold/shoot that thing?:confused:

bu-bye
03-11-2006, 11:46 AM
How do you hold/shoot that thing?:confused:


Like this here ;)

http://64.124.10.205/ar/srb/srblow.AVI
http://64.124.10.205/ar/srb/srbhigh.AVI

The second list for Aprils shipment is already filling up, so PM me if you want one.

30Cal
03-13-2006, 10:53 AM
I'm wondering if you could make a pivoting grip. When the grip is pivoted up against the buttstock, it would release the magazine (or unblock the mag release). I.e. the only time the mag could be released is when the pistol grip is not usable.

Ty

bwiese
03-13-2006, 11:00 AM
I'm wondering if you could make a pivoting grip. When the grip is pivoted up against the buttstock, it would release the magazine (or unblock the mag release). I.e. the only time the mag could be released is when the pistol grip is not usable.

Geezus.

Why would that be interesting or useful?

Because it's certainly illegal.

Go back and read the PC 12276.1 features definition of an AW, and the CCR 978.20 definitions of detachable mag and pistol grip and you will see there's really no conditional statements about their interrelationships. If the mag detaches ever (even during disassembly), there better not be any pistol grip (or telestock and/or flash hider) attached to the gun.

xrMike
03-13-2006, 12:43 PM
Like this here ;)

http://64.124.10.205/ar/srb/srblow.AVI
http://64.124.10.205/ar/srb/srbhigh.AVI

The second list for Aprils shipment is already filling up, so PM me if you want one.You didn't PM everyone with instructions for the first shipment yet, right? (I should be on that list but haven't heard anything yet).

Just waiting to send you some money... :D

PanzerAce
03-13-2006, 1:11 PM
bu, what extra work has to be done with the SRB to make all the parts still fit properly? or is it just like screwing in the pistol grip.

mebejets
03-13-2006, 7:29 PM
has anyone asked doj if the old tumor grip was legal on these new builds with detactable mags? it would be like the old kel tec.

mebejets

bu-bye
03-13-2006, 8:14 PM
bu, what extra work has to be done with the SRB to make all the parts still fit properly? or is it just like screwing in the pistol grip.

Its easier then screwing on a grip. Nothing needs to be done on your part.

You didn't PM everyone with instructions for the first shipment yet, right? (I should be on that list but haven't heard anything yet).

Just waiting to send you some money...

Once they are here and I verify the fit and finish for each I'll send everyone the instructions. Last thing I want to do is take everyones money and find out the SBR were all made wrong by the shop. They will be in this week and ready to ship by next week after I drill the spring hole.

If anyone has any questions please PM me rather then post here.