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View Full Version : Why aren't online retailers selling any ammunition after Jan 2011?


firearmenthusiast
05-04-2010, 2:11 PM
I recently flipped through a magazine of cheaper than dirt and realized that on every page with ammunition, it said they will no longer be selling or shipping ammunition after Jan 2011. I asked and it appears that Rifle, Shotgun and Handgun ammunition will be part of the "ban". But I thought AB 982 only referred to handgun ammunition??:confused: I mean, from a marketing perspective they can make money off the shotgun and rifle sales right?? Dont get it, anyone care to input on this? And it appears many other retailers are taking the SAME approach....

AndrewMendez
05-04-2010, 2:13 PM
AB962 (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/2009_-_AB_962_De_Leon%2C_Ammunition)

Welcome to Calguns. (Waits for comments on how the NRA, CRPA and CGF are going to smack it down.

Dr Rockso
05-04-2010, 2:16 PM
I recently flipped through a magazine of cheaper than dirt and realized that on every page with ammunition, it said they will no longer be selling or shipping ammunition after Jan 2011. I asked and it appears that Rifle, Shotgun and Handgun ammunition will be part of the "ban". But I thought AB 982 only referred to handgun ammunition??:confused: I mean, from a marketing perspective they can make money off the shotgun and rifle sales right?? Dont get it, anyone care to input on this? And it appears many other retailers are taking the SAME approach....

It does, but CTD is renowned for taking things to extremes (try to order an AR-15 brass catcher or front sight adjustment tool). There will be plenty of retailers willing to ship rifle and shotgun ammo to CA, even if AB962 is allowed to stand.

Super Spy
05-04-2010, 2:19 PM
Because they are a bunch of dumb arses that can't read....yes AB962 only applies to handgun ammo....but places like CTD aren't going to hassle with the details like shotgun and rifle ammo are still legal to mail order and probably won't make an exception for C&R and COE holders either...

ke6guj
05-04-2010, 2:20 PM
I recently flipped through a magazine of cheaper than dirt and realized that on every page with ammunition, it said they will no longer be selling or shipping ammunition after Jan 2011. I asked and it appears that Rifle, Shotgun and Handgun ammunition will be part of the "ban". But I thought AB 982 only referred to handgun ammunition??:confused: I mean, from a marketing perspective they can make money off the shotgun and rifle sales right?? Dont get it, anyone care to input on this? And it appears many other retailers are taking the SAME approach....yes, the ban only applies to handgun ammo, but handgun ammo is not defined well enough so that vendors would be comfortable selling rifle ammo.

12323. As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall
apply:
(a) "Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in
pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed
upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.


For instance, is .22 Long Rifle ammo designed for a rifle, or is it designed for a handgun? What about 5.7x28mm ammo, rifles and handguns are chambered in that from FN, 5.56x45mm ammo, rifles and some handgun as well.

I've read that CADOJ is not planning on writing any supporting regulation to clarify the law, so many/most vendors will be taking a conservative approach and not selling any ammo for handguns or rifles. Many stores have also sequestered all handgun an riflle ammo away from the customer due to the already effective portions of AB962. Now, shotgun ammo should be fine.

JJE
05-04-2010, 2:50 PM
Two reasons (at least):

1) Cheaper than Dirt is a private company and they can refuse to sell anything to anybody for any reason or no reason.

2) Cheaper than Dirt has decided that they make enough $$$ without the hassle of trying to figure out the difference between handgun and rifle ammo, and they don't care how you feel about it. The reason they can get away with this is that people give them business even though they are legendary for being no-customer-service idiots. If you want them to change, don't buy anything from them.

Bottom line: Cheaper Than Dirt is famous for treating California residents like dirt (if they haven't gotten around to your city or county, it's just a matter of time). You can get all the ammo you want from a bunch of other companies so throw away the CTD catalogues and get whatever you need from somebody else. Try:

ammunitiontogo.com
ableammo.com
natchezss.com

berto
05-04-2010, 2:53 PM
Our idiot legislators pass restrictive laws and CTD imposes even more restrictive sale policies because they're too dense and/or scared to figure out exactly what's legal and what isn't.

wheels
05-04-2010, 2:57 PM
IANARetailer - but I would have to be making significant profit from ammo sales if I were to risk getting into a civil or criminal action with/in CA. I think CA/DOJ is purposely vague in order to ensure law abiding citizens/retailers have to worry about significant financial losses in these gray areas. Lawyers are not cheap...

JJE
05-04-2010, 3:05 PM
That's why it's so important to support retailers that support YOU. CA laws are already onerous - I won't spend $$$ at any company that goes ABOVE and BEYOND the law to not sell me legal merchandise. If companies like CTD are the only ones around (because we didn't support retailers that support US), then we won't be able to buy ammo at all short of driving out of state.

Ding126
05-04-2010, 3:12 PM
Just say no to CTD...No one from CA should support them IMO

bodger
05-04-2010, 4:04 PM
CTD blows. There still tons of online retailers selling to CA, including to areas like Los Angeles that have their own ridiculous ammo restrictions.
I just got a bunch from Cabela's.

DarthSean
05-04-2010, 4:08 PM
I heard that if you have a C&R license and a COE that you can buy handgun ammo online. Is this FUD or not?

Dr Rockso
05-04-2010, 4:22 PM
I heard that if you have a C&R license and a COE that you can buy handgun ammo online. Is this FUD or not?

From the text of AB962:
(c) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to or affect the deliveries,
transfers, or sales of, handgun ammunition to any of the following:

...

(6) Persons licensed as collectors of firearms pursuant to Chapter
44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto whose licensed
premises are within this state who has a current certificate of
eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 12071.

ke6guj
05-04-2010, 4:23 PM
I heard that if you have a C&R license and a COE that you can buy handgun ammo online. Is this FUD or not?
The law does exempt those with C&R+COE from the handgun ammo mail-order ban, but you may have difficulty getting online vendors to accept it.

10fcp
05-04-2010, 5:58 PM
Sorry if this derailes the op's question. For us reloaders I've heard you can and can't by components. (bullets)

tacticalcity
05-04-2010, 6:06 PM
Cheaper Than Dirst refuses to sell all kinds of perfectly legal things to Californians, as does Sportsman's Guide. They have always done that. Rather than learn the actual law, they refuse to sell anything to which a ban is even loosely related. Rifle kits, and AR Parts are a perfect example. Its a corprate decision on their part that has nothing to do with the actual law. I stopped doing business with them many years ago for that reason.

Librarian
05-04-2010, 6:08 PM
Sorry if this derailes the op's question. For us reloaders I've heard you can and can't by components. (bullets)

Can.

See the wiki (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/2009_-_AB_962_De_Leon%2C_Ammunition).

But, again, getting out of state retailers to study CA statute construction is pretty unlikely.

WeekendWarrior
05-04-2010, 6:32 PM
Im hoping vendors will not be overly catious to the point of not selling 7.62x39, .223/5.56, .308 etc. because you can buy pistol versions of certain rifles that shoot those calibers. That would be a disaster.

advocatusdiaboli
05-04-2010, 6:36 PM
Our idiot legislators pass restrictive laws and CTD imposes even more restrictive sale policies because they're too dense and/or scared to figure out exactly what's legal and what isn't.

That is exactly the chilling effect the drafters of the bill had in mind. I'll bet they are pleased with themselves--one more step top deny 2A in the PRK.

RomanDad
05-04-2010, 9:52 PM
I went to buy a rifle stock yesterday.... JUST a stock.... Ill leave the name of the company out because I dont want to call anybody out.... But this was the response I got...

California laws won't allow an item with a pistol grip and collapsible stock to be transferred into the state, even if it's not a full firearm. Frustrating, I know, but we have to comply with the state law. The neighboring states allow the transfer, though. Lots of guys that order stuff from California just have us ship it to the closest out-of-state dealer and then they pick it up from them. Hope that helps.

:rolleyes:

bw762308
05-04-2010, 10:00 PM
CTD sucks. Natchez is cheaper for the same items anyway.

Try Palmetto for ammo too. Reasonable shipping ($12/1000rds) and very good prices.

Whoa Nellie
05-04-2010, 10:13 PM
I went to buy a rifle stock yesterday.... JUST a stock.... Ill leave the name of the company out because I dont want to call anybody out.... But this was the response I got...



isnt that illegal ?

advocatusdiaboli
05-04-2010, 11:10 PM
We here in this group might have significant numbers to affect the revenues of some retailers who disrespect us. But that only works if we unify and I know that is anathema to many of us free folk. But if we , all on our own, start favoring (say Natchez) for their terms, maybe that will prevail. If not they we've patronized the supplier who gives us the best deal so no loss. Maybe we should start a Pro-California Vendors thread including their discounts and shipping for us. Let them compete for our business for once instead of disrespecting us. Why not?

RomanDad
05-05-2010, 11:50 AM
isnt that illegal ?

Want to quote me the section of the penal code that regulates the selling or buying of STOCKS?

Nate74
05-05-2010, 12:30 PM
If you're just now asking questions, where were you when some of us were calling in and sending 100 faxes a day to try to stop this?

Oh and yeah - I stopped into J&G the last time I was visiting my folks in Prescott AZ and the guy I talked to explained it pretty simply. He was polite but direct.

"We make plenty of money without having to hire a lawyer to figure out the wacky laws in CA."

limitdown
05-07-2010, 8:25 PM
Many retailers of any firearms completely ban sales to California even with firearms that are totally Cali-legal. The reason is that they don't want to hassle with our laws. Although I hate this, I almost can't blame them. I put the blame on the people who passed our ridiculous laws.