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View Full Version : Q: How is a "pistol grip" defined by FEDERAL law? looking for citations...


gunn
05-04-2010, 9:49 AM
I've been around calguns long enough so I understand how california defines pistol grips. Please don't bother quoting me the chapter and verse on why a grip is/is not a pistol grip as defined in california law.

My question is specifically if any of you have found a section of FEDERAL law that defines a pistol grip. In a previous thread, I asked about making my own MMG-style grip and how it would potentially be affected by 922r. Someone brought up the comment that if I'm making a MMG grip and NOT a traditional pistol grip, it doesn't matter if the part is foreign/domestic since 922r won't apply.

Here's what I've found so far:
* On the BATFE website in their Federal Firearms reference (contains both the NFA & GCA), I only see a pistol grip commented upon as an evil feature (as part of the federal AWB that ended in 2004) "if it protrudes conspiciously below the action".
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

* In this BATFE letter ruling, a thumbhole stock is defined as having a pistol grip. This clearly demonstrates that the most narrow definition of a pistol grip (just a seperate protrusion below the gun) does not apply and the BATFE is reaching farther (similar to how the CA pistol grip is defined).
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1862695


* The only other reference i could find would be to a failed attempt by Kerry to introduce a new AWB in 2003 (SB 1431). This defined a pistol grip as "(42) PISTOL GRIP- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip."
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1431:

Obviously, such a definition, had it passed, would have had far reaching effects on all sort sorts of guns that have buttstocks that allow for a pistol-style grip and protrude below the level of the action. The question about whether or not it would apply to a MMG type grip is moot since this was never codefied in law.

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In conclusion, is anyone's google-fu better than mine here?
For me, the goal is to confirm that there is no definition that can be found that could be construed/miscontrued in FEDERAL law that says an MMG style grip is a pistol grip as far as the feds are concerned.

-g

PS. If someone would just sell/trade me a damned AK MMG, I would be done with this line of questioning :)

GrizzlyGuy
05-04-2010, 10:03 AM
Back in the 90's, ATF's position was that it didn't need to be defined (http://www.ttb.gov/rrd/tdatf396.htm):

One commenter recommended that the term ``pistol grip'' be defined

so that it includes so-called thumbhole stocks. The term

``semiautomatic assault weapon'' is defined in the Act as including

semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic shotguns which have 2 or more of

the features specified in the law. One of the features specified is a

``pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the

weapon.'' The commenter stated that thumbhole stocks function in the

same manner as pistol grips and, therefore, should be included within

the definition of this term.

ATF agrees with the commenter that replacing a separate pistol grip

with a thumbhole stock does not remove the pistol grip as a feature. A

semiautomatic rifle or semiautomatic shotgun with a thumbhole stock and

one or more of the other features specified in the law would be a

``semiautomatic assault weapon'' as defined. However, ATF does not

believe it is necessary to provide a separate definition of ``pistol

grip'' or any of the other features listed in the statute.

CHS
05-04-2010, 10:32 AM
PS. If someone would just sell/trade me a damned AK MMG, I would be done with this line of questioning :)

This:

http://www.riflegear.com/p-56-monsterman-grip-ar.aspx

Plus this:

http://riflestocks.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=326

Equals a MMG AK :)

CHS
05-04-2010, 11:10 AM
That is an interesting little gadget. I have seen it everywhere and never knew where to get one. Thanks for the link...

Yeah, if I had an AK I would run one of these and an Ergo grip on it :)

gunn
05-04-2010, 12:30 PM
This:

http://www.riflegear.com/p-56-monsterman-grip-ar.aspx

Plus this:

http://riflestocks.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=326

Equals a MMG AK :)

Dude, I had no idea this widget existed other than as an add-on to the MMG...
Thanks!
-g