PDA

View Full Version : Update on Steve Poizner from one of his people


big red
05-03-2010, 4:11 PM
The comments below were sent to me by the Poizner camp and might be worth reviewing along with links they provided. I have only eliminated the person's name but I have the original e-mail. Any objective comments before and after reviewing the links? see link to McDonald case.

You offered some very valid points. Thank you very much for your thoughts on the Second Amendment, especially regarding its incorporation to state and local government. You may have missed some very public statements Commissioner Poizner had made on the subject, so I thought I would share them with you. Please see here for the official statement he issued on the day Supreme Court heard oral arguments in regards to confirming that the landmark gun rights decision in the Heller case applies to the states in McDonald v. Chicago. http://stevepoizner.com/blog/2010/03/02/statement-from-steve-poizner-regarding-pivotal-gun-rights-case-mcdonald-v-city-of-chicago/



Steve also made very public statements regarding his opposition to AB 962, the ammunition registration signed by Governor Schwarzenegger this year. This link takes you to an audio clip from the Inga Barks Show in Kern County where Steve talked about his opposition to AB 962. If he’s elected Governor, he will repeal AB 962. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCdInwNVtks



Poizner has been the only candidate talking about the Second Amendment issue in this Republican primary, and unafraid to engage our opponent on this issue. Please see the attached PDF to see Meg Whitman, in her own words, describing how easy of a decision it was for her to ban the sale of guns and reloading equipment on Ebay. In due time, Gunowners of California and the National Rifle Association will be making their endorsements of the Republican primary public. Shooters and Sportsmen everywhere will come to know that Steve Poizner is the man who understands the fundamental basics of individual liberty and will always err on the side of freedom when he’s making decisions as our Governor. In this Republican primary, the choice cannot be more clear. I hope you will continue to offer your help to this campaign because momentum is on our side and we need you to help us to be victorious on June 8th. Thanks again.


Field Representative – Sacramento Valley

Steve Poizner for Governor 2010

520 Capitol Mall, Suite 220 | Sacramento, CA 95814

OleCuss
05-03-2010, 4:33 PM
Looks better than Whitman: I think that is called damning with faint praise. . .

bwiese
05-03-2010, 4:41 PM
It's easy for Poizner now to grab hold of the Heller/McDonald inevitability.

Will Poizner publicly apologize for his denunciation and demonization of NRA staffers in his
past AD21 campaign against Ruskin, where he told them to "f*** off", and that he didn't
need "rightwing rednecks?

[The quotes I mention are approximate in wording but exact in content, and the people to
whom this was said I'd bet are readily and willingly deposable as to these sentiments.]

He also has NOT completed ab NRA questionnaire, and I doubt that will ever happen.

Maybe St. Peter could deny Jesus three times and still be forgiven.

But the Rooster of Reality has crowed twice for Poizner: he's cussed & repudiated & misrepresented
the NRA, the California NRA staff, and NRA members - and threw in a gratuitous insult, so I'm betting
he's toast for life in the gunnie world.

Add that Whitman's "gun outreach team" is trying to misappropriate inference of an NRA endorsement
by dropping NRA hats along with campaign literature, and you see we have a well-balanced load of
gunrights excrement for the Republican CA governor primary.

Ding126
05-03-2010, 4:42 PM
Encouraging news..

bwiese
05-03-2010, 5:06 PM
Steve Poizner's camapaign "gun people" see gunrights in terms of rightwingism and a "Republican hook point" - and not as a freestanding entity worthy of up or down vote on that basis only.

One of them proclaims to be a gunnie - and he's a nice guy - but I don't see how he'll ever have the trust of gunnies again: he's walking around with the functional equivalent of a big "Brady" stamp on his forehead.

mike_schwartz@mail.com
05-03-2010, 5:38 PM
(got confused and posted this in two threads. sorry)

A couple of interesting points…their campaign staff called me today. They have a new stance on the Second Amendment on their website. I invite you all to take a look to see what you think.

The campaign also returned the NRA questionnaire over the weekend. Reading between the lines during the conversation, it was due to the interest shown by the gun community in his opinion. Getting them to make a statement about the Second Amendment and getting them to work with the NRA is the goal and it was accomplished. Good work to everyone who contacted them!

Again…I have no idea who I will vote for. That is not what this was about. The NRA has carried the water and I believe their members (you and I) helped in the end. Now the NRA will have good information to help make a judgment.

I really encourage all of you to use the information you find on calguns to motivate action. Don’t just post a complaint or forward some e-mails to your buddies. Engage the people running for office in a professional manner. It will make a difference.

One last thing, after talking to the staffer from Poizner’s office…apparently he contacted someone who posts a lot on calguns and is a part of the leadership of the Foundation. He was reaching out to the gun community. But this person wouldn’t talk to him and the reason given is that Poizner is not a Democrat. That’s disappointing. I hate to hear stories like that. It certainly doesn’t help the long term goal and seems childish. Personal agendas really get in the way of progress.


-Michael

orangeusa
05-03-2010, 5:41 PM
IIRC - Poizner has a history of flopping on issues...

Do we not have a choice here? i.e. a viable candidate?

Sorry I'm late to the game here wrt these 2 candidates, but I'll do some homework, I swear... :)

.

Shotgun Man
05-03-2010, 5:42 PM
One last thing, after talking to the staffer from Poizner’s office…apparently he contacted someone who posts a lot on calguns and is a part of the leadership of the Foundation. He was reaching out to the gun community. But this person wouldn’t talk to him and the reason given is that Poizner is not a Democrat. That’s disappointing. I hate to hear stories like that. It certainly doesn’t help the long term goal and seems childish. Personal agendas really get in the way of progress.


-Michael

Who did the Poizner staffer talk to on CGF? You gotta name names if you're gonna make such explosive allegations.

OleCuss
05-03-2010, 5:49 PM
OK, I went to Poizner's site and found what I think is the "new" position: http://stevepoizner.com/solutions/public-safety

The relevant part appears to be:

Second Amendment Rights: Steve Poizner Supports An Individual’s Second Amendment Right To Keep And Bear Arms. Steve is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and opposes any attempts to chip away at the right that every Californian has to keep and bear arms. Steve believes that the Founders of the Constitution were crystal clear when establishing that people have the right to own guns for both recreational and defensive purposes. Steve opposes any new gun laws and will closely examine existing gun laws. He also opposes California’s recently passed ammunition registration law (AB 962), and will seek its repeal as governor.

Steve has also issued a statement regarding the pivotal gun rights case of McDonald v. City of Chicago, saying a proper decision in McDonald would clarify and strengthen the Second Amendment’s application to the states. Such a decision would be a victory for liberty and a powerful reaffirmation of the United States Constitution.

Still not even close to what I want to hear from a candidate. It might be acceptable if it were coming from someone with a long h/o supporting the RKBA and/or had shown an affinity for talking the matter over with the NRA and CGF over time. As it is he's just saying that he doesn't like AB962 and he'll look at the current laws.

Note that when someone says they don't want any new gun laws that doesn't necessarily mean good things. I'd like legislation signed into law which would make the waiting period rational, legalize the so-called "Assault Weapons" for everyone, allow CCW and LOC with a modicum of training, etc. All that would be new "gun laws" if done by the legislature and the governor - so opposing new gun laws is not reassuring at all.

bwiese
05-03-2010, 6:06 PM
One last thing, after talking to the staffer from Poizner’s office…apparently he contacted someone who posts a lot on calguns and is a part of the leadership of the Foundation. He was reaching out to the gun community. But this person wouldn’t talk to him and the reason given is that Poizner is not a Democrat. That’s disappointing. I hate to hear stories like that. It certainly doesn’t help the long term goal and seems childish. Personal agendas really get in the way of progress.


Hi Mike...

That was me, and I was speaking in an individual capacity. And I DID TALK TO HIM. The exchange lasted several minutes.

[CGF only deals with gun education and cannot advocate for or against candidates - just like Friends of NRA or NRA Foundation cannot do, even though NRA and Wayne are on the political warpath all the time. I apologize for any comparison with Wayne/NRA, but it indeed is a practical example of separation of organizations/individuals, etc.]

I was misquoted and misrepresented me; this aide has been going up and down every gun org, gun lawyer and gun club in the state trying to get anyone to say something good for Steve Poizner.

I am not a Democrat, perhaps he seemed to think I was opposing Poizner because of that.

I lost interest in talking with him further and close the conversation in a friendly fashion - because it was a waste and because I saw the nearby Meg Whitman booth was trying to use NRA hats to construe infererence of NRA support.

My statements to the aide were, in no specific order:

(1) I distrust any "newfound love" for RKBA given his past hate for it;

(2) I heard/confirmed from Very Qualified People that Poizner
had told them to "f***k off, he didn't need rightwing rednecks"

(3) I said it was fairly irrelevant since the numbers show Poizner's
toast anyway unless Meg dies or is found with kiddie porn.

(4) If the Poizner campaign is seeking little ol' me out, and sending
a young guy like Ed out who doesn't even "get" gunrights, then
they're doubly hurtin'.



I am happy to hear that Poizner completed the questionnaire, though.

mike_schwartz@mail.com
05-03-2010, 6:10 PM
Shotgun Man – I don’t have to name names. The point is our goal is bigger than any one person. Your personal opinion doesn’t matter as much as what is good for the Second Amendment in CA.

OleCuss – I’ve never read a candidate’s stance that is perfect. They’d have to write a book to do that. The point is we caused action. He went from having nothing to having this. Not bad for a buncha gun nuts.

cmaynes
05-03-2010, 6:16 PM
Bill, is CGF planning to endorse ANY if the Candidates for Governor? It seems like we just have a bunch of steaming heaps of fail in every direction....

Personally, I am favoring Brown, becuase he is a bit of an idealist... but he comes with so much Baggage I am really torn.

I am entirely ok with voting against a candidate though- and that would mean Whitman would be my enemy.

OleCuss
05-03-2010, 6:17 PM
I volunteer to take Poizner shooting! If he does OK with PMI I've got one or two firearms he could shoot - and I'll supply the ammo.

If we can get him out to the range a few times we might be able to figure out where he's really coming from.

ke6guj
05-03-2010, 6:20 PM
Bill, is CGF planning to endorse ANY if the Candidates for Governor? It seems like we just have a bunch of steaming heaps of fail in every direction....


reposted from above,'

[CGF only deals with gun education and cannot advocate for or against candidates - just like Friends of NRA or NRA Foundation cannot do, even though NRA and Wayne are on the political warpath all the time. I apologize for any comparison with Wayne/NRA, but it indeed is a practical example of separation of organizations/individuals, etc.]


per their 501(c)3? status, they can't politic like that.

OleCuss
05-03-2010, 6:20 PM
.
.
.
OleCuss – I’ve never read a candidate’s stance that is perfect. They’d have to write a book to do that. The point is we caused action. He went from having nothing to having this. Not bad for a buncha gun nuts.

So far I've not seen any action. He has opposed AB962 which could easily be opposed on business and tax grounds as some truly stupid legislation even if one totally ignores the RKBA.

So far his statements are remarkably devoid of meaning. Maybe he is now a true believer in the RKBA - but I see no meaningful evidence of such.

I would still support him over Whitman any day of any week - but that isn't much of an endorsement. . .

bwiese
05-03-2010, 6:38 PM
Bill, is CGF planning to endorse ANY if the Candidates for Governor? It seems like we just have a bunch of steaming heaps of fail in every direction....

CGF, nor its board members speaking for it, cannot support or work against any candidate. We only talk about issues, education and lawsuits. Period.

Individuals, however, do not give up their individual free-speech rights to support or comment about given candidates or issues just because they work for a tax-exempt org.

bwiese
05-03-2010, 6:40 PM
The point is we caused action. He went from having nothing to having this. Not bad for a buncha gun nuts.


This is very true. I do find it in desparation however, and noncompensatory for past ills, esp given his current lack of relevance.

Understand the Poizner campaign is still running just to keep some staffers employed and on the odd chance Meg drops dead or is found with kiddie porn.

orangeusa
05-03-2010, 6:49 PM
I volunteer to take Poizner shooting! If he does OK with PMI I've got one or two firearms he could shoot - and I'll supply the ammo.

If we can get him out to the range a few times we might be able to figure out where he's really coming from.

Take a guy hunting or fishing and you will learn all about them... (old saying)
Hand him a large cal handgun at a range, and we'll know where he's coming from!! Sorry if too OT....

.

Mstrty
05-03-2010, 6:50 PM
Bill, is CGF planning to endorse ANY if the Candidates for Governor? It seems like we just have a bunch of steaming heaps of fail in every direction....

Personally, I am favoring Brown, becuase he is a bit of an idealist... but he comes with so much Baggage I am really torn.

I am entirely ok with voting against a candidate though- and that would mean Whitman would be my enemy.

Bill is thowing all his efforts towards Brown. Search his posts its pro-Brown this pro-Brown that.
I however do not approve of and inividual that gets endorced for govenor by the same group that just last week gave us Saldana’s Assembly Bill 1934
California Police Chiefs Association Endorse Brown (http://www.ktvu.com/news/22736312/detail.html)
California Police Chiefs Association all warm and fuzzy with AG Brown BARF>>>>
IT was only a few years ago that that the Brady Campaign was infront of the cameras pleading with Californian's to vote for Jerry Brown.
This guy will forever be in too many of California's powerfull pockets.
<object width="960" height="745"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JujfH9Le52M&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JujfH9Le52M&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="960" height="745"></embed></object>

When Jerry Brown was running for President in 1992, he wholeheartedly embraced a single payer national health insurance system.
“When I see in Canada that they pay $500 less per person, that they cover every citizen, and that they live two years longer and their infant mortality is 50 percent less – then I see a model,”
Brown said during a debate will Bill Clinton in New York in April 1992.
“You cut out all the private health insurance, you have one single payer either at the national level or through the 50 states and that one single payer will be the one who negotiates with the doctors, the hospitals and the other providers.”
Jerry Brown
Jerry thank you for the brief you wrote to SCOTUS. However I dont belive it was more than housekeeping looking towards an upcoming Gubernatorial race.
I know where you stand.

bwiese
05-03-2010, 6:53 PM
When Jerry Brown was running for President in 1992, he wholeheartedly embraced a single payer national health insurance system.


WTF does that have to do with gunrights?

Gunrights-only voters vote on one thing.

When you dilute your gunrights concerns with other concerns, you dilute your gunrights.

Every other shade of politics votes in a block - gays, unions, pets, seniors. They achieve effectiveness due to that. Why can't we?

Shotgun Man
05-03-2010, 6:56 PM
WTF does that have to do with gunrights?

Gunrights-only voters vote on one thing.

When you dilute your gunrights concerns with other concerns, you dilute your gunrights.

Every other shade of politics votes in a block - gays, unions, pets, seniors. They achieve effectiveness due to that. Why can't we?

Amen.

HondaMasterTech
05-03-2010, 7:05 PM
As of right now, if there were only two candidates and they were Poizner and Whitman, who would win and by how much?

Now, if the race were Poizner against Brown, who would win and by how much?

ProlificARProspect
05-03-2010, 7:05 PM
Well is the Brady Campaign still endorsing Brown?

How can we trust this life long politician with previous ties to Brady campaign?

What will He do regarding the assault weapons ban SB 23, Ammo AB 962, Mag capacity, CCW???

Does Jerry Brown own Guns and believes in the right to protect yourself... not just the political BS line they support the 2nd amendment for hunting and target practice????

Bill is Jerry Brown really Pro Gun? Drop it like it's hot, what is the hub bub???

This the first time I heard of Bills views on Jerry Brown.





`

NiteQwill
05-03-2010, 7:07 PM
WTF does that have to do with gunrights?

Gunrights-only voters vote on one thing.

When you dilute your gunrights concerns with other concerns, you dilute your gunrights.

Every other shade of politics votes in a block - gays, unions, pets, seniors. They achieve effectiveness due to that. Why can't we?

Because the people that swim in the gunrights pool want every piece of the pie while clinging to their guns. Sad, really.

NiteQwill
05-03-2010, 7:08 PM
As of right now, if there were only two candidates and they were Poizner and Whitman, who would win and by how much?

Whitman because of the enormous amount of money behind her.

Mstrty
05-03-2010, 7:10 PM
WTF does that have to do with gunrights?

Gunrights-only voters vote on one thing.

When you dilute your gunrights concerns with other concerns, you dilute your gunrights.

Every other shade of politics votes in a block - gays, unions, pets, seniors. They achieve effectiveness due to that. Why can't we?

Voting for a man that doesnt denounce an endorcement from an Anti- gun group effectively accepts their nod. I will later post moneys being poured into his campaign by organizations that want to take my and your guns away. Do I need to explain how campaign contributions get repaid of do you understand that part?

hasserl
05-03-2010, 7:27 PM
WTF does that have to do with gunrights?

Gunrights-only voters vote on one thing.

When you dilute your gunrights concerns with other concerns, you dilute your gunrights.

Every other shade of politics votes in a block - gays, unions, pets, seniors. They achieve effectiveness due to that. Why can't we?

I'll tell you what it has to do with it. Leftist politicians are very quick to discard rights that are not part of their political agenda. 2A rights are just part of the problem. Over the years the entire political spectrum has shifted to the left. Individual freedom and rights have given way to group rights. Inalienable rights granted by a creator have given way to civil rights granted by a government.

Individual freedom and liberty is the goal, 2A rights comes along with that. Overbearing repressive governments are the enemy, loss of individual freedom and liberty is the real problem, loss of 2A rights goes along with that. You/we have to vote for politicians that favor individual freedom and liberty, or you're/we're part of the problem. Supporting leftist politicians, even those that may seem to be pro 2A, contributes to the problem, because that politician will be outvoted by his komrads and you will loose even more of your gun rights along with more of your individual freedoms.

Putting 2A rights at the center of your voting, voting for a leftist politician because you think he supports 2A rights, it's like putting a bandaid on a compound fracture. You're fooling yourself if you think you're doing any good at all. Only by supporting politicians on the right, and shifting the political spectrum to the right; only by taking away the power of the left, that is the only way you/we are going to stop the loss of our 2A rights along with the rest of our individual freedoms. That's what that has to do with gunrights. Voting for a Democrat leads directly to the loss of gunrights, there is no logical way you can rationalize that away. Support Brown and you support the loss of more gunrights, as you support the loss of more individual freedoms.

Mstrty
05-03-2010, 7:52 PM
^^Amen.^^^
Someone gets it.

HondaMasterTech
05-03-2010, 7:53 PM
Whitman because of the enormous amount of money behind her.

The reason I ask is would it be possible for Poizner to win in the primary and him then lose easily to another candidate, such as Brown?

That strategy would make sense if Whitman has a chance at defeating Brown.

Mstrty
05-03-2010, 8:10 PM
The reason I ask is would it be possible for Poizner to win in the primary and him then lose easily to another candidate, such as Brown?

That strategy would make sense if Whitman has a chance at defeating Brown.

If the race comes down to Poizner vs Brown I perdict Brown would win. Most of the members that i have spoke with both on and off this board want a Poizner/Brown election. This way 2A could have a chance. Better with Poizner IMO.

OleCuss
05-03-2010, 8:30 PM
It may tick off the more committed, but I'm not and will not be a single issue gun rights voter.

Jerry Brown is a Liberal/fascist. I will never be a fan of his politics.

Problem is that Whitman is an incompetent lying fascist pretending to be a conservative.

Both Brown and Whitman will try to make big business both subject to government control and arrange for government support of big business. Whitman won't be as effective at it and hasn't got the perspective of the possible in government.

I'm not saying it well - it's sorta like trying to say that Whitman will be the bull in the china shop. It's gonna get real messy but not in a good way. It won't be a pattern of progress toward anything we like, it'll be an unrestrained nutcase fascist legislature running roughshod over us all. Brown is smarter and more conservative than most of our legislature and will restrain them more than Whitman will.

Oh, and do not count on Whitman beating Brown. Whitman is stomping all over Poizner partly because Poizner didn't run for months and now almost all that anyone knows about him are the negatives - he was defined by his opponent. Jerry Brown is already known and has name recognition and will not be defined by Whitman in the same way that Poizner was.

You could argue that if Poizner won the primary that he would be the stronger candidate against Brown. If he wins the primary he will have built up impressive momentum and you could expect his positives to rise. He'd be spending money and could make it very difficult for JB.

Well, I don't think Poizner will pull it off so it's mostly academic.

thebronze
05-03-2010, 9:22 PM
It may tick off the more committed, but I'm not and will not be a single issue gun rights voter.

Jerry Brown is a Liberal/fascist. I will never be a fan of his politics.

Problem is that Whitman is an incompetent lying fascist pretending to be a conservative.

Both Brown and Whitman will try to make big business both subject to government control and arrange for government support of big business. Whitman won't be as effective at it and hasn't got the perspective of the possible in government.

I'm not saying it well - it's sorta like trying to say that Whitman will be the bull in the china shop. It's gonna get real messy but not in a good way. It won't be a pattern of progress toward anything we like, it'll be an unrestrained nutcase fascist legislature running roughshod over us all. Brown is smarter and more conservative than most of our legislature and will restrain them more than Whitman will.

Oh, and do not count on Whitman beating Brown. Whitman is stomping all over Poizner partly because Poizner didn't run for months and now almost all that anyone knows about him are the negatives - he was defined by his opponent. Jerry Brown is already known and has name recognition and will not be defined by Whitman in the same way that Poizner was.

You could argue that if Poizner won the primary that he would be the stronger candidate against Brown. If he wins the primary he will have built up impressive momentum and you could expect his positives to rise. He'd be spending money and could make it very difficult for JB.

Well, I don't think Poizner will pull it off so it's mostly academic.

Spot-on.

haveyourmile
05-05-2010, 10:47 AM
Brown already showed us he sucks at being governor. Why let him have another shot?

wildhawker
05-05-2010, 11:59 AM
^^Amen.^^^
Someone gets it.

Alternatively, 2 don't...

stag1500
05-05-2010, 12:32 PM
Brown already showed us he sucks at being governor. Why let him have another shot?

When he was Mayor of Oakland not too long ago, his policies/agenda, which were anti-crime and pro-business, were much more in line with a Republican platform than with a Democrat platform. Jerry Brown has become much more Libertarian in his elder years.

jdberger
05-05-2010, 1:08 PM
When he was Mayor of Oakland not too long ago, his policies/agenda, which were anti-crime and pro-business, were much more in line with a Republican platform than with a Democrat platform. Jerry Brown has become much more Libertarian in his elder years.

bingo.

He also said, when asked about the Heller ruling, "Of course the Second Amendment reflects an individual right. You couldn't read it any other way if you're being honest".

He wasn't in a campaign at the time. It was live on radio. He didn't dissemble.

That did it for me.

BigDogatPlay
05-05-2010, 1:09 PM
Hi Mike...

That was me, and I was speaking in an individual capacity. And I DID TALK TO HIM. The exchange lasted several minutes.



Thank you for your, as always, forthrightness.

I was misquoted and misrepresented me; this aide has been going up and down every gun org, gun lawyer and gun club in the state trying to get anyone to say something good for Steve Poizner.

The hallmark of a floundering candidacy. They are grasping at whatever straws they can hoping it will magically be spun into a lifeboat.

I am not a Democrat, perhaps he seemed to think I was opposing Poizner because of that.

Anyone who reads in depth here will infer / associate your name to the support you've expressed of JB's candidacy... which I have interpreted is based solely on gun rights grounds since this is a gun rights forum. I would think that an outsider looking in who sees some of your comments on point might assume your party affiliation.

I don't assume anything... party affiliation, especially here, is not germane. Unfortunately short sighted political operatives who are going to have their resumes tied to a failed campaign will often make assumptions. ;)

My statements to the aide were, in no specific order:

(1) I distrust any "newfound love" for RKBA given his past hate for it;

(2) I heard/confirmed from Very Qualified People that Poizner
had told them to "f***k off, he didn't need rightwing rednecks".

I follow the history and politics (and back stories) of the state executive officeholders and candidates for those offices closely. I had heard these things as well, although not with the VQP sourcing and not to that level of detail, so it's nice to know my gut was once again right. So thanks, again, Bill for this new level of understanding.

Come November we are going to be left with three equally regrettable alternatives.....

1) Vote for JB and hope for the best relative to our gun rights while preparing for the worst fiscally.

2) Vote for Meg and expect the worst relative to our gun rights while preparing for pretty close to the worst fiscally.

3) Stay home and do nothing.

BigDogatPlay
05-05-2010, 1:13 PM
Does Jerry Brown own Guns and believes in the right to protect yourself... not just the political BS line they support the 2nd amendment for hunting and target practice????

Two things quickly.....

** Jerry Brown has expressed clearly, including in SCOTUS briefing, that he feels that Amendment Two relates to an individual right.

** Most everyone here says that government has no right to know what guns, if any we own. How is it our business if Jerry Brown owns a gun?

bwiese
05-05-2010, 1:18 PM
** Most everyone here says that government has no right to know what guns, if any we own. How is it our business if Jerry Brown owns a gun?

JB was kind enough to proclaim it on a list of "XXX things you didn't know about JB" -- saying he owned a Colt revolver (his dad's). I believe he owns other firearms as well up on the family ranch up north.

It will be interesting if we can ever get this revolver in the National Firearms Museum ;)

Mr Wizard
05-05-2010, 1:54 PM
I'll tell you what it has to do with it. Leftist politicians are very quick to discard rights that are not part of their political agenda. 2A rights are just part of the problem. Over the years the entire political spectrum has shifted to the left. Individual freedom and rights have given way to group rights. Inalienable rights granted by a creator have given way to civil rights granted by a government.

Individual freedom and liberty is the goal, 2A rights comes along with that. Overbearing repressive governments are the enemy, loss of individual freedom and liberty is the real problem, loss of 2A rights goes along with that. You/we have to vote for politicians that favor individual freedom and liberty, or you're/we're part of the problem. Supporting leftist politicians, even those that may seem to be pro 2A, contributes to the problem, because that politician will be outvoted by his komrads and you will loose even more of your gun rights along with more of your individual freedoms.

Putting 2A rights at the center of your voting, voting for a leftist politician because you think he supports 2A rights, it's like putting a bandaid on a compound fracture. You're fooling yourself if you think you're doing any good at all. Only by supporting politicians on the right, and shifting the political spectrum to the right; only by taking away the power of the left, that is the only way you/we are going to stop the loss of our 2A rights along with the rest of our individual freedoms. That's what that has to do with gunrights. Voting for a Democrat leads directly to the loss of gunrights, there is no logical way you can rationalize that away. Support Brown and you support the loss of more gunrights, as you support the loss of more individual freedoms.

I have to agree with this. As important as my 2A rights are to me personally, I have to look at the big picture for my families sake. Brown screwed us with his liberal agenda the first time. Why would I vote for a do over?
Meg is no better. Anyone willing to spend 100 million dollars of her own money for a position that will only pay a fraction of that, has to be on a power trip. Her pro-amnesty policy makes her no better than the democrats. She is Arnold with a vagina.

Do I think Poisner will win the nomination, probably not, but I will vote him in the primary anyway.

OleCuss
05-05-2010, 2:03 PM
I have to agree with this. As important as my 2A rights are to me personally, I have to look at the big picture for my families sake. Brown screwed us with his liberal agenda the first time. Why would I vote for a do over?

California is not the same place and Brown is not really quite the same guy that he was back then. I think he is considerably less loony. Now inching closer to Libertarian than to Liberal (although I still think more Liberal than Libertarian).

Meg is no better. Anyone willing to spend 100 million dollars of her own money for a position that will only pay a fraction of that, has to be on a power trip. Her pro-amnesty policy makes her no better than the democrats. She is Arnold . . .

IMHO, Meg is much worse. Actually has more fascist (Jonah Goldberg's definition) tendencies than does Brown.

Do I think Poisner will win the nomination, probably not, but I will vote him in the primary anyway.

I'm all in favor of this. Poizner in the primary! Then maybe there'll be a real choice in November. Right now I favor Brown over Poizner but that could change if Poizner starts to show a real commitment to conservatism.

warbird
05-05-2010, 3:33 PM
At this point I can't vote for Brown due to his miserable track record on all issues during his first governorship and as Mayor of Oakland. He did not learn from his mistakes. He is pro-gun as long as he owns the gun. Whitman from what has been exposed about her will say anything to get the seat or try to buy it. In my opinion I think she would screw us all in a heatbreat if she thought it would put a buck in her pockets. Poizner does not have a big chance but if my vote helps him get a little closer to an upset then I am going to give it to him. We do not know if he can win until we vote for him and we might as well find out. We have seen dark horses come from behind before. I don't consider it a lost vote if I am voting for someone I think might undo some past sins of our government and special interest groups.

Mr Wizard
05-05-2010, 3:43 PM
California is not the same place and Brown is not really quite the same guy that he was back then. I think he is considerably less loony. Now inching closer to Libertarian than to Liberal (although I still think more Liberal than Libertarian).



IMHO, Meg is much worse. Actually has more fascist (Jonah Goldberg's definition) tendencies than does Brown.



I'm all in favor of this. Poizner in the primary! Then maybe there'll be a real choice in November. Right now I favor Brown over Poizner but that could change if Poizner starts to show a real commitment to conservatism.

Point taken and thank you for politely replying with your POV. All to often we get overly passionate (rude) with others that have opposing views.

Davidoff
05-05-2010, 4:11 PM
I would very much like to see a Brown/Poisner general election. I registered as a Dem in 2008 to vote against Hillary in the primaries, and I will do the inverse to vote against Meg Whitman this year.

Mstrty
05-05-2010, 4:17 PM
deleted:(

artherd
05-05-2010, 5:15 PM
Brown and you support the loss of more gunrights, as you support the loss of more individual freedoms.

As opposed to the actively anti-gun rightists?

Partisanship died 20 years ago. 1A and 2A are the most important things in the world. With them secure we are free to argue about all sorts of other things that don't really matter.

I am going to ask you to vote for a LIBERAL GUN RIGHTS SUPPORTER, Mr. Jerry Brown.

artherd
05-05-2010, 5:17 PM
Does Jerry Brown own Guns and believes in the right to protect yourself...
Yes, and Yes.
Bill is Jerry Brown really Pro Gun?
Yes.

haveyourmile
05-05-2010, 5:26 PM
Yes, and Yes.

Yes.

From the man himself. Thanks for dropping a line and setting things straight Mr. Cannon, always glad to hear things from you :)

gn3hz3ku1*
05-05-2010, 5:53 PM
wow bill you're really anti steve.. but either way he is much better than meg when it comes to number 2 :)
It's easy for Poizner now to grab hold of the Heller/McDonald inevitability.

Will Poizner publicly apologize for his denunciation and demonization of NRA staffers in his
past AD21 campaign against Ruskin, where he told them to "f*** off", and that he didn't
need "rightwing rednecks?

[The quotes I mention are approximate in wording but exact in content, and the people to
whom this was said I'd bet are readily and willingly deposable as to these sentiments.]

He also has NOT completed ab NRA questionnaire, and I doubt that will ever happen.

Maybe St. Peter could deny Jesus three times and still be forgiven.

But the Rooster of Reality has crowed twice for Poizner: he's cussed & repudiated & misrepresented
the NRA, the California NRA staff, and NRA members - and threw in a gratuitous insult, so I'm betting
he's toast for life in the gunnie world.

Add that Whitman's "gun outreach team" is trying to misappropriate inference of an NRA endorsement
by dropping NRA hats along with campaign literature, and you see we have a well-balanced load of
gunrights excrement for the Republican CA governor primary.

BigDogatPlay
05-06-2010, 9:25 AM
Partisanship died 20 years ago. 1A and 2A are the most important things in the world. With them secure we are free to argue about all sorts of other things that don't really matter.

^^^ This ^^^

Which goes back to my earlier statement.... when it comes to the question of rights, any rights, party affiliation can never be a dividing line. We have very good friends in Congress from across the country who carry a D after their names, and there are some who are most decidedly not our friends that carry an R.

Solely in the context of 1A and 2A, and those rights are inextricably joined at the hip (hat tip to Mr. Cannon for re-affirming that), the discussion here is going to be predicated squarely on those. Without those, nothing else really matters because there is no way then left to influence. In that analysis, Jerry Brown appears to be the candidate closest to our collected way of thinking here.

There are a buttload of other issues that I disagree with him on, and I'll have to balance my mind to that within the sanctity of the booth come November, but as relates to what I see publicly on 1A and 2A, Jerry Brown wins... hands down.

Politics and political leadership is about trade offs. He is not the same man as he was in 1975 when he took office the first time. I would dare say that none of us who were alive then are.

bwiese
05-06-2010, 10:07 AM
Does Jerry Brown own Guns and believes in the right to protect yourself...

Yes and yes.




Bill is Jerry Brown really Pro Gun?

Yes.




Ben beat me to it. Sometimes all it takes is 3 words.