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View Full Version : Another example of why Citizens should be Allowed CCWs


uzigalil
05-03-2010, 1:32 PM
Woman arrested after four stabbed in a West Hollywood Target store [Updated]
May 3, 2010 | 2:05 pm
An off-duty L.A. County sheriff's deputy arrested a woman Monday on suspicion of stabbing four people in a Target store in West Hollywood. The stabbing set off a stampede among customers, authorities said.

Deputies with the sheriff's West Hollywood Station responded after numerous 911 calls reported a gunman at the Target at La Brea Avenue and Santa Monica Boulevard, Sgt. Josh Mankini said.

But it turned out a woman had stabbed four other people in the store and was holding a bloody knife when the off-duty deputy confronted her and ordered her to give up the weapon, Mankini said.

[Updated at 2:23 p.m.: The off-duty deputy was identified as Clay Grant Jr, who is assigned to the Men's Central Jail in downtown Los Angeles, said Capt. Michael Parker.

“We are exceptionally proud of Deputy Grant.” Parker said. “The reason why this tragic situation wasn’t worse was because of the quick thinking of an armed, off-duty sheriff’s deputy who was willing to risk his life to end this situation.”

Grant was shopping when he heard screaming nearby. He turned the corner and saw the woman carrying two bloody knives, including a butcher knife. He drew his weapon and ordered her to surrender.

A total of five people were treated for injuries, four of them stab wounds included three women and one man, authorities said.

The woman was not identified and deputies did not have an immediate condition on the victims, who were also not identified.

The Sheriff's Department received numerous calls after one of the victims, who was still bleeding, ran out of the store and people saw the deputy in his civilian clothes with a gun.

"There was a panic in the store," Mankini said, noting witnesses outside the store initially believed there had been a shooting. "Everyone and their brother was calling 911."

xr650r
05-03-2010, 1:36 PM
The anti's would say:

"she would have had a gun instead!"

yellowfin
05-03-2010, 1:51 PM
Suspected of stabbing 4 people? You'd think with something like that they'd be a little more certain. I don't see how you could have much doubt as to whether someone did that or not as the mess would speak for itself.

robcoe
05-03-2010, 2:00 PM
Suspected of stabbing 4 people? You'd think with something like that they'd be a little more certain. I don't see how you could have much doubt as to whether someone did that or not as the mess would speak for itself.

probably taken off of a news site. They do serious CYA whenever it comes to saying what actualy happened. Someone could probably walk on to a studio at CNN, walk on camera durring a live broadcast, kill the newsclone reading the teleprompter and start cooking them on national tv and they would still say the person was "suspected" of the crime.

bodger
05-03-2010, 2:01 PM
That Target is four blocks from my house. I shop there frequently with my sons.
And yes, another reason why citizens in this county should be allowed to CCW.

The more crazy and unsafe it gets, the more the moronic antis want to take away our ability to defend ourselves. It's sickening.

shock
05-03-2010, 2:46 PM
imagine if CCWs were more common, and there was 6 people with concealed weapons.

what do you think would've happened?

screaming running people everywhere, one or more with weapons drawn, and then one of the other ccw holders enter the scene....

loather
05-03-2010, 2:47 PM
Suspected of stabbing 4 people? You'd think with something like that they'd be a little more certain. I don't see how you could have much doubt as to whether someone did that or not as the mess would speak for itself.

Because in the United States, we're innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. As she hasn't been to court yet, she's still innocent (and thus a suspect), even though we know she did it.

vantec08
05-03-2010, 2:55 PM
LOLOL!!!! Indications are that the possible crime was alleged to have been committed by a suspected knife, possibly being wielded by a supposed person. The alleged wounds were apparently sutured up with suspected sutures by an apparent doctor.

bodger
05-03-2010, 3:12 PM
imagine if CCWs were more common, and there was 6 people with concealed weapons.

what do you think would've happened?

screaming running people everywhere, one or more with weapons drawn, and then one of the other ccw holders enter the scene....

Interesting question. But still, I wouldn't want to be unarmed in a Target with some nutcase running around stabbing people. Double tap the perp and holster the weapon, wait for the police to come, give them my name and CCW info and nothing else until I had a lawyer present.

pullnshoot25
05-03-2010, 3:22 PM
This is another reason why people should CARRY. The method shouldn't matter.

bodger
05-03-2010, 3:37 PM
This is another reason why people should CARRY. The method shouldn't matter.


Most definitely. I've been carrying Locked Unloaded Concealed a lot lately. Feels pretty damn good actually. Even though deploying the weapon is nowhere near as fast as it would be right out of a belt holster, open or concealed. It's still a good feeling.

Bobula
05-03-2010, 3:43 PM
How did someone confuse stabbing for shooting? Was she yelling "BANG!!! BANG!!! BANG!!!!" ?!?!?!

dapster
05-03-2010, 3:45 PM
Because in the United States, we're innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. As she hasn't been to court yet, she's still innocent (and thus a suspect), even though we know she did it.
That presumption applies to the jury who'll hear the loony's case, not to the rest of us. There is no reason for any of us to think of the bloody knife wielder as innocent. To do so is just plain silly.

The original post seemingly quoted from a news report which stated, "But it turned out a woman had stabbed four other people in the store and was holding a bloody knife . ."

That tells me she did it.

Strpd_Up_Brotha
05-03-2010, 3:45 PM
Most definitely. I've been carrying Locked Unloaded Concealed a lot lately. Feels pretty damn good actually. Even though deploying the weapon is nowhere near as fast as it would be right out of a belt holster, open or concealed. It's still a good feeling.+100:iagree:

soopafly
05-03-2010, 3:51 PM
What the hell?!? This would never have happened if the West Hollywood Gateway was a "knife-fee zone."

Havoc70
05-03-2010, 4:03 PM
That presumption applies to the jury who'll hear the loony's case, not to the rest of us. There is no reason for any of us to think of the bloody knife wielder as innocent. To do so is just plain silly.

The original post seemingly quoted from a news report which stated, "But it turned out a woman had stabbed four other people in the store and was holding a bloody knife . ."

That tells me she did it.

Actually, they generally say "suspect" and "allegedly" until the person is convicted to protect against civil libel lawsuits.

windrider
05-03-2010, 4:15 PM
thats odd you posted this, i was watching this on the news during my lunch break and was thinking i wonder what would have happens if just one of those victims or by standards had a ccw, everyone was very lucky there was on off duty cop there.

big red
05-03-2010, 4:26 PM
It is a sad commentary but more of this is bound to happen as the stress of this depressed economy starts taking it's toll. It is going to be more ammunition for the anti-gun people to want to keep guns off the streets saying that by allowing guns to be carried by normal citizens could increase the danger level. How are we going to rebutt those types of arguments as they have worked in the past as evidenced by the gun laws we have today? Just asking folks.

Maestro Pistolero
05-03-2010, 4:26 PM
“The reason why this tragic situation wasn’t worse was because of the quick thinking of an armed, off-duty sheriff’s deputy who was willing to risk his life to end this situation.”
How risky was it really? He certainly wouldn't have let her penetrate a safety perimeter. He did his job and that's great but without his weapon, it wouldn't have happened.

postal
05-03-2010, 7:08 PM
How risky was it really? He certainly wouldn't have let her penetrate a safety perimeter. He did his job and that's great but without his weapon, it wouldn't have happened.



Well put. Exactly what I was thinking.

And about anyone here would have done the same thing he did if they were CCW or LOC.

Ogolden1
05-03-2010, 7:32 PM
"Grant was wearing a white T-shirt, camouflage shorts and running shoes so several shoppers mistook him for a gunman, adding to the sense of panic, sheriff's Sgt. Josh Mankini said."

So, WHERE was he hiding his full-sized "DUTY" Gun in his camouflage shorts? ... Perhaps, his "Camo" shorts had "cargo pockets"! Was he carrying a Glock? ... Inquiring minds want to know!


WEST HOLLYWOOD, Calif. (AP) - A woman who stabbed and wounded four people in a busy Target store Monday afternoon was arrested when an off-duty sheriff's deputy pulled his duty weapon and ordered the woman to the ground as screaming shoppers ran from the building, authorities said.

Layla Trawick used a butcher's knife and a carving knife to attack the victims, using both blades at the same time—one in each hand, like in the movie "Psycho," sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore said

"She was literally walking up and down the aisles slashing people," he said.

A mother holding her baby was stabbed in the neck and was in critical condition, Whitmore said. The baby was unhurt and all four victims were expected to survive.

One witness said she was shopping for a Mother's Day card when she heard someone screaming, "There is no witness protection program!" as chaos broke out in the store.

"I don't know what it means but she was yelling that repeatedly and at the top of her lungs," said Katy Winn, a freelance photographer from West Hollywood. "I think I heard (the deputy) telling her to drop to the floor. That's when things got really chaotic and started falling over."

Winn said she dropped her basket and dashed across the store to the women's section, where she hid behind the clothing racks.

"From the moment the screaming started it was about five minutes. But it felt longer than that," she said.

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy Clay Grant Jr. said he was picking up paper towels and other items when people around him started running and screaming.

Grant grabbed his duty weapon, identified himself as a sheriff's deputy and ordered the woman to drop the knives, he said. She ran away and he followed her from aisle to aisle.

Grant was wearing a white T-shirt, camouflage shorts and running shoes so several shoppers mistook him for a gunman, adding to the sense of panic, sheriff's Sgt. Josh Mankini said.

Grant followed Trawick from aisle to aisle, until she turned and waved the knives at him from above her head, he said.

But he decided not to shoot because he didn't feel his life was in jeopardy, he said. For a second time, he ordered her to drop the knives and finally she complied.

"I was more concerned about the knife, more than what she was saying," Grant said. "Her facial expression was someone who was lost, confused, didn't know exactly where they were."

Trawick was arrested with the help of private security guards and held on $1 million bail on suspicion of attempted murder. Investigators were trying to determine whether the 34-year-old Antioch woman got the knives in the store.

Speaking to reporters at a sheriff's station later, Grant was modest.

"I don't feel like I'm a hero, I just do what I'm trained to do," he said.

Whitmore said surveillance video cameras captured the stabbings, but the tape hasn't been released.

"If he wasn't there, who knows? Someone would be dead right now," Mankini said. "He had no communication with outside law enforcement. He's just some guy doing his shopping. We're pretty proud of him."

Mankini said Grant, a five-year veteran of the department, was authorized to have a weapon in the store.

___

Associated Press Writer Raquel Maria Dillon in Los Angeles contributed to this report.
Copyright 2010

Paladin
05-03-2010, 8:03 PM
Here's our hero in his "off-duty uniform" ;)

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100504/capt.0d00f4f316c44d4490f4b7b69d0b98dc-0d00f4f316c44d4490f4b7b69d0b98dc-0.jpg?x=213&y=291&xc=1&yc=1&wc=299&hc=408&q=85&sig=BMcKfP3NkX4lRpqy1liqIA--


Deputy Grant is what I call a "virtual CCWer": a off-duty LEO usually doesn't have a partner w/him, doesn't have a radio, and isn't wearing a vest, so he's basically like a well trained and perhaps very experienced CCWer. I'll add him to my list linked in my sig line of good CCW shoots.

Here's a link to an AP story from yahoo:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100504/ap_on_re_us/us_target_stabbings

Some quotes from that story:
Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy Clay Grant Jr., said he was picking up paper towels and other items when people around him started running and screaming. . . .

Grant was wearing a white T-shirt, camouflage shorts and running shoes so several shoppers mistook him for a gunman, adding to the sense of panic, sheriff's Sgt. Josh Mankini said. . . .

"If he wasn't there, who knows? Someone would be dead right now," Mankini said. "He had no communication with outside law enforcement. He's just some guy doing his shopping. We're pretty proud of him."

So, it seems like Sgt. Josh Mankini agrees w/me, that in these circumstances, Grant was just a law-abiding citizen w/a CCW, who probably saved innocent lives because he was carrying a gun. I'm confident that Mankini and Grant and the Los Angeles Times now will all point this out to Sheriff Baca and he, upon serious reflection, will realize the error of his ways and start readily issuing CCWs to all qualified applicants. After all, before Grant entered that Target store, he probably did NOT have a NEED to carry a gun in there, thus did not have Good Cause. ;)

Ogolden1
05-03-2010, 8:11 PM
COOL!!! God Bless Him!

But, I still want to know: "WHERE was he hiding his full-sized "DUTY weapon" in his camouflage shorts? ... Was he carrying in his "cargo pockets"? Was he carry inside his waist band? ... What kinda HANDGUN was he carrying? ... Inquiring minds want to know!

Bob Ragen
05-03-2010, 8:17 PM
How did someone confuse stabbing for shooting? Was she yelling "BANG!!! BANG!!! BANG!!!!" ?!?!?!

No, the knife had a silencer on it!:43:

Paladin
05-03-2010, 8:35 PM
This is a PERFECT example of the liberal, pro-statist bias of the MSM. This story, where a off-duty LEO stops a woman w/two knives who stabbed 4 people is reported on the front page of Yahoo whereas when a CCW'er fatally shoots 1 BG armed w/a SGN and orders a 2nd BG to the ground, it does NOT get national attention.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=297181

Same w/those two CCW'ers in FL who stopped 2 bank robberies over last weekend: http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/bank-customer-stops-knife-wielding-robber/1d09v6dqo
Total national MSM news blackout.

Doheny
05-03-2010, 8:41 PM
So, WHERE was he hiding his full-sized "DUTY" Gun in his camouflage shorts? ... Perhaps, his "Camo" shorts had "cargo pockets"! Was he carrying a Glock? ... Inquiring minds want to know!

Dude, why tell the world where a cop or anyone else carries their gun when off duty or CCW'ing?


.

Arondos
05-03-2010, 8:58 PM
While I appreciate the fact he stopped the lady.

The line “The reason why this tragic situation wasn’t worse was because of the quick thinking of an armed, off-duty sheriff’s deputy who was willing to risk his life to end this situation.”

So I guess us peon serfs can't be quick thinking and risk our lives to save anyone? We aren't worthy of having the tools needed...

I would love to know the Deputies "good cause" for carrying while shopping.

jaustin612
05-03-2010, 9:02 PM
Nononono! You people have it all wrong. If that women didn't have a knife this wouldn't have happened. We need a knife ban folks, get those scary sharp things off the streets! :)

hollabillz
05-03-2010, 10:32 PM
Nononono! You people have it all wrong. If that women didn't have a knife this wouldn't have happened. We need a knife ban folks, get those scary sharp things off the streets! :)

You're kidding, but our comrades in Jolly Old England aren't:

http://imgur.com/Yq9Si.jpg

:rolleyes:

yellowfin
05-04-2010, 4:25 AM
Because in the United States, we're innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. As she hasn't been to court yet, she's still innocent (and thus a suspect), even though we know she did it.Since when did California courts act like they're part of the United States?

Aegis
05-04-2010, 6:02 AM
imagine if CCWs were more common, and there was 6 people with concealed weapons.

what do you think would've happened?

screaming running people everywhere, one or more with weapons drawn, and then one of the other ccw holders enter the scene....

Are you saying it is better to have a store full of unarmed victims or people with the ability to defend themselves?

I prefer not to be a victim. The old and tired "Wild West" scare tactics have been proven false. Maybe a criminal would think twice if he/she knew a few people in the store may have a CCW.

The Director
05-04-2010, 8:27 AM
I dunno....you don't really need a ccw in that situation. You could basically pinch a golf club out of sporting goods and deal with the crazy knife lady. I'm sure she was no real threat.

Aegis
05-04-2010, 8:38 AM
I dunno....you don't really need a ccw in that situation. You could basically pinch a golf club out of sporting goods and deal with the crazy knife lady. I'm sure she was no real threat.

Are you serious?

Tell the injured victims that the crazy knife lady was not a threat. How would an elderly person or a child fight off a criminal with a knife. What if the crazy lady had a gun.

I do not understand this victim mentality in California. It is pathetic.

j6p2004
05-04-2010, 10:58 AM
This is a PERFECT example of the liberal, pro-statist bias of the MSM...

Those CCW'ers acted too fast. If they stepped in after the BG's had killed or wounded a few people, the coverage would be a whole lot different.

advocatusdiaboli
05-04-2010, 1:23 PM
Mankini said Grant, a five-year veteran of the department, was authorized to have a weapon in the store.

Oh that's good to know. Maybe I am not getting the context but... You see even if we have a CCW or have locked-unloaded-CC, we might not be "authorized" therefore would have broken some authorization the implication being some law as well. I am sure San Francisco Province of the PRK would see it that way.

The Director
05-04-2010, 5:12 PM
Are you serious?

Tell the injured victims that the crazy knife lady was not a threat. How would an elderly person or a child fight off a criminal with a knife. What if the crazy lady had a gun.

I do not understand this victim mentality in California. It is pathetic.

I'm talking about us big strong men who would've happened to be in the store.

Lady with knife=9 iron to the cranium=problem solved

haodoken
05-04-2010, 7:52 PM
COOL!!! God Bless Him!

But, I still want to know: "WHERE was he hiding his full-sized "DUTY weapon" in his camouflage shorts? ... Was he carrying in his "cargo pockets"? Was he carry inside his waist band? ... What kinda HANDGUN was he carrying? ... Inquiring minds want to know!

Normally, LASD still carry Beretta 92F but I heard they're moving toward the M&P 9mm.

It probably would have to be pancake holster on hip or in the waist band holster. He's wearing a large size t-shirt, so most people wouldn't even know he's carrying.

A Full size is hard to conceal. I like to carry my XD9 sub-compact when off duty. :)

Dubels
05-04-2010, 8:02 PM
If I saw someone like that in a Target with a knife stabbing people I would rush over to the sports section and find a bat or golf club and take care of business. I agree that someone trained and authorized to CCW would be better, but in a lot of these situations the other people around that watch this **** happen just don't realize they can stop the situation and keep others from getting hurt by taking action.

Strpd_Up_Brotha
05-04-2010, 11:31 PM
If I saw someone like that in a Target with a knife stabbing people I would rush over to the sports section and find a bat or golf club and take care of business. I agree that someone trained and authorized to CCW would be better, but in a lot of these situations the other people around that watch this **** happen just don't realize they can stop the situation and keep others from getting hurt by taking action.They might be afraid of getting sued.....you know this state...."Why Didn't you just run" is gonna be their response...