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View Full Version : URGENT: Advice needed!!


dieselcarpenter
05-03-2010, 12:47 PM
I have a Family member in Temecula whos young son shot his mouth off at school about a WWII 6.5 Arisaka that his dad owns and the boy called it a sniper rifle etc... School contatced police and police want to do a check today (5-3-10) to see if gun is properly secured.

What are the rights of search and seizure in this case?

The gun is in a soft case locked in a secure shed and the Guy is the only one in the family with the combnation to the lock. The rifle is a war prize and unregistered.

Can he require a warrant beyond the locked shed door?

With school and children involved is there a possiblity of seizure in this case?

The police are calling at 3:30 so any immediate help is much appreciated. Thanks! :mad:

69Mach1
05-03-2010, 12:51 PM
Inside of his property, they have no right to search without a warrant.

And if you need it.
http://www.calgunlawyers.com/Davis_%26_Associates/Home.html
http://www.dklawoffice.com/

edwardm
05-03-2010, 12:54 PM
The police should be politely told to go pound sand, or better yet, ignore them. The police aren't coming into the property w/out a warrant on this one. There's no exigency, and the parent should not, I repeat NOT consent to police entry and inspection.

And then the parent should have a long talk with the school and tell them to pound some sand, too.

There would be no "registration" for the rifle and as it's over 50 years old, it wouldn't have needed to have been through the DROS process, either.

Finally, the parent should have a long talk with the kid about what to say/not say in public about things like this.

I have a Family member in Temecula whos young son shot his mouth off at school about a WWII 6.5 Arisaka that his dad owns and the boy called it a sniper rifle etc... School contatced police and police want to do a check today (5-3-10) to see if gun is properly secured.

What are the rights of search and seizure in this case?

The gun is in a soft case locked in a secure shed and the Guy is the only one in the family with the combnation to the lock. The rifle is a war prize and unregistered.

Can he require a warrant beyond the locked shed door?

With school and children involved is there a possiblity of seizure in this case?

The police are calling at 3:30 so any immediate help is much appreciated. Thanks! :mad:

Ed_Hazard
05-03-2010, 12:55 PM
No warrant no search. This is why they want to do a "check". Politely inform them that no check is needed.

Window_Seat
05-03-2010, 12:55 PM
If you get in trouble with the law for your guns - PLEASE contact CGF (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=245866)

Erik.

HowardW56
05-03-2010, 12:58 PM
No warrant no search. This is why they want to do a "check". Politely inform them that no check is needed.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

CSACANNONEER
05-03-2010, 1:01 PM
There is no legal definition of "properly secured" that I know of. Please conact CGF or a firearms attorney asap!

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 1:02 PM
How old is the young kid anyway?

M198
05-03-2010, 1:04 PM
Tell the cops to take a hike. No long guns are not registered in the state of California. The gun could have appeared from the rifle fairy, it's none of their business. Tell the cops they are trespassing and only come back if they have a warrant. Or...................give the Arisaka to me. for ummm, safe keeping! I always wanted one of those.

RRangel
05-03-2010, 1:04 PM
It's not a crime to own guns in the United States the last time I checked. There is no reason for any law enforcement, let alone any school personnel that are supposed to be educating kids, to be sticking their noses is a gun owners business. If there's an issue contact the Calguns Foundation and your local NRA.

After telling them to get lost, I would promptly make a formal complaint to the school board and pertinent administrators. Try to let the public in on this if it makes legal sense. Otherwise do not jeopardize a legal matter. The people who would perpetrate this anti-gun witch hunt onto citizens are less likely to try it when they know the public is watching.

jdberger
05-03-2010, 1:05 PM
When the cops come, as simple "no thank-you" is appropriate.

Call CGN.

Don't forget your voice recorder..... ;)

Toe-tapping on this one.....

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 1:06 PM
Don't be rude the police, but yeah you don't have to let them on your property and look at your stuff without a warrant. If pressed by the police I would simply say "kids say all kinds of stuff to impress other kids, so what? Have a nice day officers."

HowardW56
05-03-2010, 1:09 PM
Tell the cops to take a hike. No long guns are not registered in the state of California. The gun could have appeared from the rifle fairy, it's none of their business. Tell the cops they are trespassing and only come back if they have a warrant. Or...................give the Arisaka to me. for ummm, safe keeping! I always wanted one of those.

I would keep it civil, but assert your rights. No need to antagonize the police by being rude, just politely refuse and ask them to go on their way...

If you have a pocket audio recorder, use it!

GrizzlyGuy
05-03-2010, 1:12 PM
I would keep it civil, but assert your rights. No need to antagonize the police by being rude, just politely refuse and ask them to go on their way...

If you have a pocket audio recorder, use it!

+1

And... don't answer any questions, don't make any statements.

Casey
05-03-2010, 1:13 PM
So this is what we have come to in our school system. Talk about guns, get your house searched and have to justify to some school principal exercising your 2nd amendment rights.
Pathetic.

dieselcarpenter
05-03-2010, 1:13 PM
Thanks guys,

the kid is like 11-12 ish, school is a prgressive lefty bastion, the gun hasnt seen light in years (not interested in selling) but kids (as stated above) say the darndest things, Ill keep you posted.

Thanks again.

wildhawker
05-03-2010, 1:15 PM
Please contact CGF at 1-800-556-2109 and post no further information in a public forum.

Marxman
05-03-2010, 1:19 PM
God. Some kid was 'in fear of being murdered' when I was in high school because my friend was having an extraction issue with his Mosin and I told him how to fix it. I was sent up to the office and almost suspended. It infuriates me to see this happening again and again... have the father have a talk with his son, unfortunately the school system doesn't stand out as a paragon of fairness and gunnies regardless of age are discriminated against heavily.

Liberty1
05-03-2010, 1:21 PM
There is NO law which requires 'lock up' in CA (perhaps Muni Codes of questionable legality). There is a law which says IF you should have known a minor COULD access the firearm AND it is used in a CRIME OR someone gets injured (not in self-defense) it COULD THEN be a crime.

I would not talk to the police at all personally (speaking as a copper myself;)).

RRangel
05-03-2010, 1:25 PM
Thanks guys,

the kid is like 11-12 ish, school is a prgressive lefty bastion, the gun hasnt seen light in years (not interested in selling) but kids (as stated above) say the darndest things, Ill keep you posted.

Thanks again.

Take the aforementioned advice regarding not posting since it could jeopardize a potential legal matter. When it makes sense to do so one good idea in making the culprits known is that it's in best interests of gun owners and the American public at large. Just a thought.

choprzrul
05-03-2010, 1:30 PM
:popcorn:

Watching this with interest. Keep us posted on how it comes out.

Dr Rockso
05-03-2010, 1:38 PM
Please contact CGF at 1-800-556-2109 and post no further information in a public forum.

Have your family member do this. Would be funny if the cops called and a CGF-affiliated attorney was already conferenced in on the conversation.

metalhead357
05-03-2010, 1:45 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade or be an Over-alarmist but the OP might have CPS (Childrens Protective services) Show up along with the Cop. Then its a whole different story as CPS DOES have the right to investigate complaints and can enter........

Get a Lawyer ASAP before this gets ugly. Civility doesn't mean crap to CPS. Protect your rights.

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 2:02 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade or be an Over-alarmist but the OP might have CPS (Childrens Protective services) Show up along with the Cop. Then its a whole different story as CPS DOES have the right to investigate complaints and can enter........

Get a Lawyer ASAP before this gets ugly. Civility doesn't mean crap to CPS. Protect your rights.

CPS can enter and search through your stuff without a warrant? Now how is that legal?

gregorylucas
05-03-2010, 2:08 PM
I looked up this website California Home School (http://www.californiahomeschool.net/howTo/cps.htm) and it looks as if the 4th Amendment protects against searches in this instance as well barring some other circumstance.

I personally would tell them POLITELY to go pound salt because unless the child made threats regarding the firearm the school has no right to investigate you.

Calabretta v. Floyd
HSLDA Press Release

August 26, 1999

Yolo County, CAóSocial workers are bound to obey the U.S. Constitution when investigating child abuse cases, said a unanimous three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in an opinion handed down Thursday, August 26, 1999.

"This opinion will have a nationwide impact. With respect to the Fourth Amendment, the Ninth Circuit settled the social worker question once and for all. No longer can social workers enter a home without either a warrant or probable cause of an emergency," said Michael Farris, lead attorney for the plaintiffs.

-Greg

metalhead357
05-03-2010, 2:11 PM
CPS can enter and search through your stuff without a warrant? Now how is that legal?

I'm not claiming it is legal but its leagally done everyday here in our beloeved state. They have the right to enter to verify/investigate complaints on the behalf of children.....

there's more to it: And I aint no expert- but I've yet to hear of anyone preventing CPS from coming in to investigate.........

nick
05-03-2010, 2:18 PM
It's none of school's business what people do at home. They're overstepping what authority they have, and they need to be told that.

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 2:22 PM
I'm not claiming it is legal but its leagally done everyday here in our beloeved state. They have the right to enter to verify/investigate complaints on the behalf of children.....

there's more to it: And I aint no expert- but I've yet to hear of anyone preventing CPS from coming in to investigate.........

Well thanks to the post above yours it looks like we do have the right, absent an emergency, to refuse entry to the fascists at CPS thanks to the 9th Circuit's decision in:
Calabretta v. Floyd
http://www.familyrightsassociation.com/bin/caselaw/calabretta_v_floyd.htm
The social worker and police officer concede that for purposes of appeal, they should be treated as having entered the Calabretta home without consent. They argue that the district court erred in holding that their nonconsensual entry required special exigency or a search warrant. Their theory is that an administrative search to protect the welfare of children does not carry these requirements, and the social worker was doing just what she was supposed to do under state administrative regulations. They claim immunity for entry into the home, interviewing the twelve year old, and strip searching the three year old.

Basically the deputy sheriff was supporting the social worker from CPS' opinion that they were not restricted by the 4th amendment. But what would you expect from a scum bag social worker?

n2k
05-03-2010, 2:26 PM
Yes but the problem is that they will enter your home. Take the child and put them in foster care (for the safety of the child):eek: while you try to defend yourself from the strong arming of CPS and DCFS.

They are an out of control group that needs to be dismantled.

To OP, please heed the advice of getting them legal representation immediately.

metalhead357
05-03-2010, 2:26 PM
POLICSTATE--- thanks for that-- a 10,000000+ post & gives me hope that there is still some sanity left. Nice to know the CPS angle for unwarrented searches may be over.

Sorry if I got tempers raised.....For once I think I'm glad my OLD info is fud.

Dubels
05-03-2010, 2:29 PM
CPS needs a warrant/court order too or at least reasonable cause such as immediate danger to the child to enter private property. CPS has no statutory authority to enter your home otherwise. In this case the child did not threaten anyone or say that he was at harm or could be harmed in the near future. So even with a police escort the CPS may not enter the property. It would be absurd to give CPS the right to violate ones constitutional rights. In most cases the CPS is allowed in because either there is nothing to hide or the parent does not give a damn. Usually when the CPS forces its way into being allowed to observe the property is when the court orders it or when people see that fighting it would only lead to a court order that would only complicate matters.

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 2:30 PM
Yes but the problem is that they will enter your home. Take the child and put them in foster care (for the safety of the child):eek: while you try to defend yourself from the strong arming of CPS and DCFS.

They are an out of control group that needs to be dismantled.

Armed with knowledge, remaining calm, asserting your rights and pointing out what they are risking should prevent them from taking your child absent a real emergency.

choprzrul
05-03-2010, 2:31 PM
Does the OP have the tools in place now to meet this head on? What can the rest of us be doing to provide assistance? I'm going over to CGF to make a donation right now.

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 2:31 PM
POLICSTATE--- thanks for that-- a 10,000000+ post & gives me hope that there is still some sanity left. Nice to know the CPS angle for unwarrented searches may be over.

Sorry if I got tempers raised.....For once I think I'm glad my OLD info is fud.

Gregorylucas found the court case, I simply expanded on it a bit :)

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 2:33 PM
CPS needs a warrant/court order too or at least reasonable cause such as immediate danger to the child to enter private property. CPS has no statutory authority to enter your home otherwise. In this case the child did not threaten anyone or say that he was at harm or could be harmed in the near future. So even with a police escort the CPS may not enter the property. It would be absurd to give CPS the right to violate ones constitutional rights. In most cases the CPS is allowed in because either there is nothing to hide or the parent does not give a damn. Usually when the CPS forces its way into being allowed to observe the property is when the court orders it or when people see that fighting it would only lead to a court order that would only complicate matters.

Or they come in because when it comes down to it, many people either don't know their rights, or are intimidated by government forces. Especially people who are barely making ends meet or worse. I have 2 social workers in the family, they both have the attitude that they know better than everyone else because of what they do. And they are both scum bags, I'm glad I'm not related to them by blood.

robcoe
05-03-2010, 2:33 PM
Be polite, but if they ask to look around ask to see their warrent.

Also, call a lawyer NOW. If possable have him standing at the door at the same time. Might cost a bit of money up front but will put a serious crimp in any headachs later.

n2k
05-03-2010, 2:43 PM
Armed with knowledge, remaining calm, asserting your rights and pointing out what they are risking should prevent them from taking your child absent a real emergency.

From having experienced how these entities have operated, they have no concern of the risk. They do not care that you are asserting any right. They will even instigate an escalation of the situation to justify their actions and law enforcement is mandated to support them in the execution of these travesties.

They will create havoc in your world and then let the family courts wade through and hopefully clear your name.

In the mean time you have to defend yourself to the fullest at a price no family should pay.

Window_Seat
05-03-2010, 2:49 PM
I would get a video camcorder/webcam and set it up. You can never have enough witness protection.

Erik.

-hanko
05-03-2010, 2:59 PM
What can the rest of us be doing to provide assistance?
:lurk5::lurk5:

pass the butter;)

Seriously, op's relatives need to have talk with child, and find another school.

-hanko

RandyD
05-03-2010, 3:01 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade or be an Over-alarmist but the OP might have CPS (Childrens Protective services) Show up along with the Cop. Then its a whole different story as CPS DOES have the right to investigate complaints and can enter........

Get a Lawyer ASAP before this gets ugly. Civility doesn't mean crap to CPS. Protect your rights.

I would disagree with your statement. CPS is like any other government agency and must have exigent circumstances, consent, search warrant ect before conducting a search. I have represented numerous clients where CPS tried to bully them. When I anticipate CPS making a house call, I have instructed my clients to call my office, and the client hands the phone to the CPS representative or their police escort, and I instruct them to leave the premises and invite them to obtain a search warrant if they can. I have never had CPS obtain a search warrant yet.

HowardW56
05-03-2010, 3:01 PM
:popcorn:

Watching this with interest. Keep us posted on how it comes out.

++1

tiki
05-03-2010, 3:04 PM
Don't be rude the police, but yeah you don't have to let them on your property and look at your stuff without a warrant. If pressed by the police I would simply say "kids say all kinds of stuff to impress other kids, so what? Have a nice day officers."

So, if a kid says "my dad can beat up your dad" does the father now get investigated for assault?

RandyD
05-03-2010, 3:07 PM
Yes but the problem is that they will enter your home. Take the child and put them in foster care (for the safety of the child):eek: while you try to defend yourself from the strong arming of CPS and DCFS.

They are an out of control group that needs to be dismantled.

To OP, please heed the advice of getting them legal representation immediately.

In response to telling CPS to leave my clients' residences, they have threatened to find the child's school and take the child into custody but so far that has only been a threat and they have not done so. If they conduct themselves in such a manner, they are exposing themselves and the agency to civil rights violations. On this same point, they can interview a child at school without the parents' consent and may tried to establish exigent circumstances. Usually exigent circumstances mean that a threat must be abated immediately not later so in my opinion it is unlikely that a judge would find an exigent circumstance based on a child's statement given at school.

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 3:07 PM
So, if a kid says "my dad can beat up your dad" does the father now get investigated for assault?

In Obama's America? You bet! :thumbsup:

IGOTDIRT4U
05-03-2010, 3:27 PM
There is no legal definition of "properly secured" that I know of. Please conact CGF or a firearms attorney asap!

There are on the sections of the Penal Code dealing with minors and guns. Same as yo usee onthe mandatory signs at gunshop counters, the usual warngins, etc.

IMHO, yeah, call them and tell them bring a warrant, and either get an attorney present for the "viewing" of the ONE weapon in question, or at least videotape the entire encounter. (post warrant)

If the warrant names the 'sniper rifle' and "any and all weapons", have your attorney who is present note he/she objects to the search, it's a fishing expedition. They will still most likely conduct the full search pursuant to what they feel is a valid warrant, but it then all becomes subject to admissibility later on. A good Judge or Magistrate would nto sign such a warrant, but in haste, some might.

On edit: Liberty1 made the point clearly. I did nto add the portion about the minor finding the weapon and it harming someone. So it does not apply to the OP.

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 3:29 PM
1 minute to go...

Big E
05-03-2010, 3:43 PM
I rarely post, but this is the second time today. I’m pretty sure in CA that the law is very clear that with a minor in the house you have to have any and all firearms secured with a locking mechanism (which I’m sure you all know). I guess a locked shed would count as long as the child doesn’t have access to the key/combination. Regarding the illegal search of your residence, I don’t think this situation changes ones rights unless they are claiming the child is in immediate danger (proof?). If not, I would refuse the search but offer that the parent is willing to sing a statement indicating that, under penalty of perjury, the firearm is safely secured in accordance with State law. If they still say they want to see the weapon, just to verify, I’d say not without a warrant. BTW – I would do this all through a secure door or security door. Do not exit the residence or invite them in. Might not be the most polite way, but effective in communicating you know your rights.

vantec08
05-03-2010, 3:47 PM
CPS is just another rogue agency, like BATF, that deals in political correctness, not common sense. They have more leeway than LE does and sometimes show up with LEO in tow like happened to my neighbor down the street. His kid mentioned at school one day that he was hungry (what active 9 yr. old isnt hungry?), some do-gooder teacher pumped it up to the principal and it went from there. The kid came to the door to see what was happening as my neighbor was refusing entry and that ended that.
I disagree, Big E ------ refuse the search from the get-go.

misterjake
05-03-2010, 3:51 PM
Wow, my students were doing research on their final projects today and one of my students showed me a m4 carbine on the internet.

I told I'm a building one almost like that, but not full auto.

He thought it was pretty cool.

I can see how the school reacted as they would be burned at the stake if they ignored it but c'mon, use common sense, students like to brag about what their parents, cousins or friends have...let me tell you, it's things law abiding citizens like us dream about.

Then again, I teach at an inner city school they are all better strapped than I'll ever be.

Milsurp Collector
05-03-2010, 3:51 PM
PCVnMDy_7nM

Dr Rockso
05-03-2010, 3:55 PM
I rarely post, but this is the second time today. Iím pretty sure in CA that the law is very clear that with a minor in the house you have to have any and all firearms secured with a locking mechanism (which Iím sure you all know).

Welcome to calguns, but there is no such law that requires firearms be stored under lock and key with a minor in the home. You can be held liable, however, if said minor gains access to and commits a crime with it.

Maltese Falcon
05-03-2010, 4:01 PM
Okay...almost 4 PM now. Whatever happened has happened....

.

daveinwoodland
05-03-2010, 4:03 PM
So this is what we have come to in our school system. Talk about guns, get your house searched and have to justify to some school principal exercising your 2nd amendment rights.
Pathetic.
This sure seems to be the standard now. Statiscally even counting all the Columbines, and other tragedies the actual chance of something occuring is so low that a cross country airplane flight is about as dangerous.

Leave it to the press to make it seem like an hourly occurence.

kermit315
05-03-2010, 4:05 PM
Tagged

Eat Dirt
05-03-2010, 4:20 PM
:popcorn:

Watching this with interest. Keep us posted on how it comes out.

+ 1 more on this ...............

Window_Seat
05-03-2010, 4:22 PM
angi1vwUkQc

:popcorn:

big red
05-03-2010, 4:50 PM
When deputies in the past have come up to my front door I ask what the subject of the visit is and that determines whether they can stand on my front patio or are asked politely to step back down the driveway to the sidewalk. If they object I ask for a search warrant and no search warrant gets them a trip off the property. Even CPS does not have a right to violate your property on the word of a minor even if that minor is your own child. Have you considered a lawsuit if no public apology is rendered. CPS in many counties is under heavy investigation and Sacramento might have one of the worst.

I often took rifles out from the previous wars and black powder guns to show children who were friends of my daughters and no one ever complained about me. One parent even said the kid probably learned more history in my house than he learned all year in school. Never had a CPS visit and never had a police call out over a gun issue.

IGOTDIRT4U
05-03-2010, 4:52 PM
When deputies in the past have come up to my front door I ask what the subject of the visit is and that determines whether they can stand on my front patio or are asked politely to step back down the driveway to the sidewalk. If they object I ask for a search warrant and no search warrant gets them a trip off the property. Even CPS does not have a right to violate your property on the word of a minor even if that minor is your own child. Have you considered a lawsuit if no public apology is rendered. CPS in many counties is under heavy investigation and Sacramento might have one of the worst.

Word of advice. Don't leave the doorway of the house, or if you have one, leave the screen or security door shut. Once you leave the house the rules change.

AndrewMendez
05-03-2010, 5:08 PM
Updates?
What school was it or at least the school district. I would like to give the Superintendent a call and ask his/her opinion. I would also like to get the Media involved, I am sick and tired of these teachers deciding what rights their students can follow.

Big E
05-03-2010, 5:09 PM
Thanks DrRockso for setting me stright and good to know. And thanks for the Welcome.

Waiting to see how this story turned out.

anthonyca
05-03-2010, 5:25 PM
I rarely post, but this is the second time today. Iím pretty sure in CA that the law is very clear that with a minor in the house you have to have any and all firearms secured with a locking mechanism (which Iím sure you all know). I guess a locked shed would count as long as the child doesnít have access to the key/combination. Regarding the illegal search of your residence, I donít think this situation changes ones rights unless they are claiming the child is in immediate danger (proof?). If not, I would refuse the search but offer that the parent is willing to sing a statement indicating that, under penalty of perjury, the firearm is safely secured in accordance with State law. If they still say they want to see the weapon, just to verify, Iíd say not without a warrant. BTW Ė I would do this all through a secure door or security door. Do not exit the residence or invite them in. Might not be the most polite way, but effective in communicating you know your rights.

Thanks for posting, you should post more often. I dissagree with your advice. There is NO WAY I would sign that form under penalty of purjury if I thought something was the law. Actually I would never sign something like that even if I thought I was sure I knew the law. Nobody can be current on all the law changes and new laws.

I would exercise my rights and not let them in and make NO statements.

CSACANNONEER
05-03-2010, 5:48 PM
I rarely post, but this is the second time today. Iím pretty sure in CA that the law is very clear that with a minor in the house you have to have any and all firearms secured with a locking mechanism (which Iím sure you all know). I guess a locked shed would count as long as the child doesnít have access to the key/combination. Regarding the illegal search of your residence, I donít think this situation changes ones rights unless they are claiming the child is in immediate danger (proof?). If not, I would refuse the search but offer that the parent is willing to sing a statement indicating that, under penalty of perjury, the firearm is safely secured in accordance with State law. If they still say they want to see the weapon, just to verify, Iíd say not without a warrant. BTW Ė I would do this all through a secure door or security door. Do not exit the residence or invite them in. Might not be the most polite way, but effective in communicating you know your rights.

As pointed out by a few others here, including at least one LEO, this statement is completely wrong. The ONLY time it is a crime to have an unlocked firearm in your home is if a child actually accesses it AND commits a crime with it. In other words, if you keep a loaded firearm in you 6 year old's room and he uses it to shoot a BG who is attempting to rape his baby sister, there is no crime commited by you or your 6 year old hero. But, if you leave a firearm where your gangsta' teen has free access to it and he uses it in a drive by, expect to do time along with your gangsta' kid.

OleCuss
05-03-2010, 5:54 PM
Word of advice. Don't leave the doorway of the house, or if you have one, leave the screen or security door shut. Once you leave the house the rules change.

I'd appreciate your explaining a little further. If I leave the house can they search it? If I do as the young lady in the video and step just outside and close the door behind me does that put me/the property in jeopardy?

You've made me very curious.

stix213
05-03-2010, 6:03 PM
I'd appreciate your explaining a little further. If I leave the house can they search it? If I do as the young lady in the video and step just outside and close the door behind me does that put me/the property in jeopardy?

You've made me very curious.

Yes I'm interested in this too. What I am pretty sure of is when they come to the door if they ask if they can come in, and you say "sure" you pretty much just gave them permission to search your house.

choprzrul
05-03-2010, 6:45 PM
Sure would like to see the video footage of the home visit attempt or hear the audio of the phone call. Like someone else said, a 3 way call with a CGF lawyer listening in would be awesome.

oaklander
05-03-2010, 7:26 PM
CGF has reached out to the OP earlier today.

OleCuss
05-03-2010, 7:28 PM
CGF has reached out to the OP earlier today.

Thank you for letting us know.

bhaworth
05-03-2010, 7:37 PM
So this is what we have come to in our school system. Talk about guns, get your house searched and have to justify to some school principal exercising your 2nd amendment rights.
Pathetic.

This is the way it is in California. This happened to my daughter when my granddaughter shot off her mouth in Kindergarten! I advised her not to let the police in without a warrant but she did anyway. Her husband had left a black powder muzzle loader out in the family room and the cop advised her to put it in the gun safe. He then laughed about the things kids say and then left.

She was lucky to have an understanding cop as they are far and few between in Ventura County I think.

REH
05-03-2010, 7:55 PM
This is just over the top, and down right scary. A school and CPS can make your life miserable over the mention of a rifle that is not even in the school.

Eat Dirt
05-03-2010, 8:04 PM
I think this is one of the 'Biggest " threads on Cal-Guns in a while

Look at how many hits already !!

robcoe
05-03-2010, 8:09 PM
This is just over the top, and down right scary. A school and CPS can make your life miserable over the mention of a rifle that is not even in the school.

What is amazeing to me about this story is that when I was in highschool(not that long ago, I graduated in 01) my friends and I would routinely talk about guns(our best shots, modifications we did, where we wanted to go shooting after school/over the weekend, ect) and nobody ever bothered us. I know this kid is younger, but its still a huge over reaction to call the cops because a kid saw a gun at some point in their life.

Fate
05-03-2010, 11:12 PM
God I hate the Nanny State and its minions!

AndrewMendez
05-03-2010, 11:27 PM
I think this is one of the 'Biggest " threads on Cal-Guns in a while

Look at how many hits already !!

I was just thinking that!!

RomanDad
05-03-2010, 11:44 PM
I'd appreciate your explaining a little further. If I leave the house can they search it? If I do as the young lady in the video and step just outside and close the door behind me does that put me/the property in jeopardy?

You've made me very curious.

The police need a search warrant to enter your house, either to conduct a search, OR to make an arrest (except in instances of hot pursuit, etc)... If you leave your doorway, nothing prevents them from arresting you, based on the bogus probable cause that they already want to investigate (or the old stand-by "resisting arrest")- The Stick. Once people are in hand cuffs, the police have leverage and most will consent to a search just to make them "go away" which is always the carrot the cops dangle... (This is a LIE. The more you cooperate, the worse things get. But... The police are ALLOWED to lie to suspects.)

Of course, the flip side to this is, if you refuse to leave your house, they often label you a "barricaded suspect" and call out the SWAT team for a nice long stand-off.

We've all seen reports of stand-offs where they only crime alleged is "He had a stockpile of weapons and refused to come out" (which I've never found in the penal code despite several thorough readings.) Then they have a big press conference where they lay all the (completely legal) guns out on a table to show what a bad guy he must have been.

The police generally do not like it when suspects flex their rights.... It makes their jobs much more difficult...

Best bet, involve an attorney RIGHT UP FRONT. That tells the police that they are going to have to play by the rules.

And the rules for CPS are no different than for the police.... Again though, they lie, threaten, and intimidate people into surrendering their rights.... Thats THEIR JOB. Thats what they are TAUGHT to do.

Baxter
05-03-2010, 11:47 PM
Man good thhing these teachers never saw my seventh grade science project. How different styles and calibers of bullets penetrate flesh. Good thing there was already a cop in the house.

anthonyca
05-03-2010, 11:49 PM
Good post.

The police need a search warrant to enter your house, either to conduct a search, OR to make an arrest (except in instances of hot pursuit, etc)... If you leave your doorway, nothing prevents them from arresting you, based on the bogus probable cause that they already want to investigate (or the old stand-by "resisting arrest")- The Stick. Once people are in hand cuffs, the police have leverage and most will consent to a search just to make them "go away" which is always the carrot the cops dangle... (This is a LIE. The more you cooperate, the worse things get. But... The police are ALLOWED to lie to suspects.)

Of course, the flip side to this is, if you refuse to leave your house, they often label you a "barricaded suspect" and call out the SWAT team for a nice long stand-off.

We've all seen reports of stand-offs where they only crime alleged is "He had a stockpile of weapons and refused to come out" (which I've never found in the penal code despite several thorough readings.) Then they have a big press conference where they lay all the (completely legal) guns out on a table to show what a bad guy he must have been.

The police generally do not like it when suspects flex their rights.... It makes their jobs much more difficult...

Best bet, involve an attorney RIGHT UP FRONT. That tells the police that they are going to have to play by the rules.

Lone_Gunman
05-04-2010, 12:24 AM
This thread makes me glad that I:
1. Donate to the CGF on a regular basis and
2. Have their phone number programmed into my phone.


CGF has reached out to the OP earlier today.

One line posts like this from CGF lawyers make me happy.

eric2063
05-04-2010, 12:49 AM
when I was in high school we could take Gunsmithing and/or Sports Craft. We even had hot bluing tanks to refinish guns (many a collectorsí piece was ruined in those tanks I'm sure). These classes were great for learning gun care and safety, wildlife conservation and how to build and maintain your own tools to go hunting and fishing, there were quite a few kids that went on to Lassen Collegeís gunsmith course from our school.
Now my son is getting involved with me cleaning the guns and doing minor repair work, but heíll never have the incredible experience that I had of being able to do it at school, another sad commentary about how our state and society as a whole has been degraded and attempts are being made to nullify our rights :(

spddrcr
05-04-2010, 1:07 AM
it's funny how CPS works nowadays. my wife teaching at a title 1 school in the middle of the monument corridor reports abused children all the time, these kids have black eye's and bruises and welts all over them. One little girl even had what looked to be Branding s from an iron like you would do to livestock, yet CPS released each of these children to the parents and half the time it was due to a translator not being available so there was no interview even though the kid was obviously abused. Yet I guarantee the first time one of my sons mentions a gun at school whether it's "my dad has a gun" or a comment like "my dad took me shooting this weekend" i can bet CPS will be on my doorstep:rolleyes:

Oh and to make it even better 4 gang members tried to stab another gangmember to death tonight across from the school my wife teaches at, they failed and the kid is only in critical condition, I swear kids these days cant do anything right:rolleyes:

battleship
05-04-2010, 2:06 AM
Any update on what happened.

OleCuss
05-04-2010, 5:29 AM
The police need a search warrant to enter your house, either to conduct a search, OR to make an arrest (except in instances of hot pursuit, etc)...
.
.
.

Thank you

OleCuss
05-04-2010, 5:32 AM
I don't think we'll get updates. Lawyers are involved and will have told the OP not to post anymore.

Frustrating for us but important for them.

otteray
05-04-2010, 5:54 AM
CGF has reached out to the OP earlier today.

Awesome.
Before CGF existed, this guy would have been hosed or toast, maybe both.

RomanDad
05-04-2010, 6:10 AM
Awesome.
Before CGF existed, this guy would have been hosed or toast, maybe both.
Soggy toast is the worst.

CSACANNONEER
05-04-2010, 7:57 AM
Soggy toast is the worst.

Not if it's "soggy" from too much butter.

gun toting monkeyboy
05-04-2010, 8:06 AM
I agree with CPS being worse than useless sometimes. I work with medically fragile kids. We had one upstanding candidate for mother of the year that we reported more than 30 times for neglect and abuse. She was always strung out on drugs, and went through "boyfriends" like most people go through socks. The last one was a homeless registered sex offender who we found out about only after he had been picking up the kids at our center for months. In violation of a whole host of laws. We banned him from ever coming within 200' of our center. We had our teachers, nurses, administrators, and even a public health nurse report her. Nothing. CPS (Well, actually it is called Child Welfare Services down here) would go out and talk with her, she would do a song and dance, and make all of the right noises that they wanted to hear, and they would leave the kids with her. Now we have an overnight nursing program, so the kids get showers from the nursing staff. One night the 2 year old girl comes in, with swollen, bleeding genitals. We call 911 and have her transported to the hospital. The doctors all agree that she had suffered some sort of trauma to the area. Mom comes in and gives the doctor some song and dance about how she is pregnant and still nursing, and that is what is causing it in the child. The doc doesn't believe her, but then won't confirm his earlier diagnosis for fear of being sued. So guess what CWS does? Yup. Hands the kid back over to her and the boyfriend. At the hearing we had with CWS and the Mom a few days later, she claims that she is not pregnant, and has never let the boyfriend pick up the kids. And that she didn't know he was a sex offender. Which we found out from the PD later that day was also a crock, as she drove him to the PD station and helped him fill out the registered sex offender paperwork. The bottom line? CWS wanted to leave her with the kids, and wanted us to continue services for them, as we gave the kids the only stability that they had in their lives. We said "No thank you". CWS was perfectly happy to let us risk our business license, and use us to support this mom's poor parenting and drug use, rather than stepping in and doing their jobs. We basically told them to F___ off. And we let them know that we had kept detailed records of our repeated attempts to get the kids taken out of there. So that if anything happened to any of the kids because they hadn't done their jobs, the media and DA would be getting a call. And then we left the meeting, with the useless CWS people gaping like fish out of water. You could see the "Oh crap" look on their faces, because it really was all their problem now. To this day, we don't know what ended up happening with those kids. We have heard rumors that they were assigned to a new CWS worker who rode the mom pretty hard. I don't believe it, but it is what we have heard. All I can do is hope that things worked out. I hate CWS.

nick
05-04-2010, 8:45 AM
As far as I'm concerned, CPS/DCFS range from useless to dangerous to good citizens. I know of several cases where CPS/DCFS people took bribes. In fact, I was present at a conversation where one of them was soliciting a bribe. He came to "check on the welfare of the children" and spent an hour talking about how little he's paid, how people should help each other, etc. Didn't even bother to talk to the children in question, interestingly enough.

I know of numerous cases where CPS/DCFS people lied in court, violated multiple laws and their own regulations, used the powers unfortunately given to them to destroy several families (and those are just the ones I know of), were accomplices in child abuse, etc. None were prosecuted or otherwise punished, as far as I know.

Given how much power we give them (didn't the Supreme court recently rule that some of the powers given to various "child protection services" trump some constitutional rights?), how little we pay them in comparison, how low the selecting criteria for such agencies is, and once again, how much power they're given over the children and families (and even people who wouldn't fall for any other blackmail are likely to fold when their children are threatened), I don't think the good such services do (when they don't actively refuse to do it, that is) outweighs the evil they bring to this country.

This is also one of my objections to a big government - I don't want to have all these government agencies with the power to destroy me or my family on a whim, without me or my family doing anything wrong or illegal, with very little real accountability for the government employees/agencies involved; the agencies that try to needlessly regulate every aspect of my life (and on my dime, too, which makes it all the more disgusting). The agencies which try to become bigger and bigger, and if there isn't enough for them to do, which makes their existence or size harder to justify, they just make up the problem where there isn't one (thus creating real problems), and use it to get even more bloated.

We only bring it upon ourselves by allowing it, by being apathetic and disinterested, and hoping that if we play by the rules set by all these mini-overlords, they may leave us alone. Not likely, for all such mini-empires want to grow, and for them to grow they have to have more misery that they'd be called upon to solve. And if there isn't enough misery to go around, they'll create it out of thin air. This is where the apathetic and disinterested people trying to play by the rules come in.

Sorry for the rant.

Eat Dirt
05-04-2010, 8:55 AM
when I was in high school we could take Gunsmithing and/or Sports Craft. We even had hot bluing tanks to refinish guns (many a collectorsí piece was ruined in those tanks I'm sure). These classes were great for learning gun care and safety, wildlife conservation and how to build and maintain your own tools to go hunting and fishing, there were quite a few kids that went on to Lassen Collegeís gunsmith course from our school.
Now my son is getting involved with me cleaning the guns and doing minor repair work, but heíll never have the incredible experience that I had of being able to do it at school, another sad commentary about how our state and society as a whole has been degraded and attempts are being made to nullify our rights :(


How True...............
My nephew in Wisconson just graduated 2 years ago
His Grad picture was WITH his favorite Shotgun as He was on the " School" skeet team
He Lettered on the " School " team
His picture Proudly sits on our entry hall table

This won't happen in California

lbdrummer3
05-04-2010, 9:20 AM
This should be interesting.. :lurk5:

nick
05-04-2010, 10:41 AM
This should be interesting.. :lurk5:

Save your popcorn. If the OP has any good sense, he won't be posting much until way later, if at all.

AEC1
05-04-2010, 10:47 AM
2 years ago I sent my son to his first day of school covered with bruses from our dove hunting trip, 150 rounds of 20gauge will do that to an 8 year old... I was so scared I took pictures that I had from the trip of him with his birds and his shotgun and put them in his binder. His teacher thought it was great. I loved that teacher great lady she was...

sepiid
05-04-2010, 10:48 AM
Not if it's "soggy" from too much butter.

OR!!! your havign Milk Toast Cereal!

socal2310
05-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Any update on what happened.

There won't be any further updates until (at the very least) this is completely resolved if the OP complies with legal counsel's recommendations. More likely, we will never hear anything more on the matter. The statute of limitations for any court action on behalf of the minor won't start running until after his eighteenth birthday.

Eight years from now, who is going to remember this thread?

Ryan

M1A Rifleman
05-04-2010, 12:17 PM
This sure seems to be the standard now. Statiscally even counting all the Columbines, and other tragedies the actual chance of something occuring is so low that a cross country airplane flight is about as dangerous.

Leave it to the press to make it seem like an hourly occurence.

I would agree. After being thru this earlier this year, I feel for th OP. In my circumstance, the teacher and principle were reasonable, yet I was asked if I had weapons and if they were locked up. I was still worried about getting a visit from he local LEO and was making plans. My advice is to "bit your lip" and reach out to the school and any LEO's rather than digging in heels and throwing rights around, as it will go better for you.

Advice #2 is to train your kids as to what not to discuss at school or amoung friends, as times are different now, and this small group on Calguns is not big enough to change the times or points of view in this state, so figure out how to get along while you get ahead.

steadyrock
05-04-2010, 12:34 PM
God Bless the Calguns Foundation.

Window_Seat
05-04-2010, 12:42 PM
If the OP has been reached out to, I would take this as a lesson learned about "popping off", and close the thread or move it to an inaccessible forum, since it's advised that he not post anything further.

Erik.

IGOTDIRT4U
05-04-2010, 1:16 PM
The police need a search warrant to enter your house, either to conduct a search, OR to make an arrest (except in instances of hot pursuit, etc)... If you leave your doorway, nothing prevents them from arresting you, based on the bogus probable cause that they already want to investigate (or the old stand-by "resisting arrest")- The Stick. Once people are in hand cuffs, the police have leverage and most will consent to a search just to make them "go away" which is always the carrot the cops dangle... (This is a LIE. The more you cooperate, the worse things get. But... The police are ALLOWED to lie to suspects.)

Of course, the flip side to this is, if you refuse to leave your house, they often label you a "barricaded suspect" and call out the SWAT team for a nice long stand-off.

We've all seen reports of stand-offs where they only crime alleged is "He had a stockpile of weapons and refused to come out" (which I've never found in the penal code despite several thorough readings.) Then they have a big press conference where they lay all the (completely legal) guns out on a table to show what a bad guy he must have been.

The police generally do not like it when suspects flex their rights.... It makes their jobs much more difficult...

Best bet, involve an attorney RIGHT UP FRONT. That tells the police that they are going to have to play by the rules.

And the rules for CPS are no different than for the police.... Again though, they lie, threaten, and intimidate people into surrendering their rights.... Thats THEIR JOB. Thats what they are TAUGHT to do.

Thanks RD for responding. I di dnot get a chance to get back to this thread yesterday.

Yes, exactly as above. Think of the professor in Cambridge Mass that got invited to the beer summit.

Big E
05-04-2010, 5:03 PM
Thanks for posting, you should post more often. I dissagree with your advice. There is NO WAY I would sign that form under penalty of purjury if I thought something was the law. Actually I would never sign something like that even if I thought I was sure I knew the law. Nobody can be current on all the law changes and new laws.

I would exercise my rights and not let them in and make NO statements.

A very valid point anthonyca. This is another reason why this website so useful.

CSACANNONEER
05-04-2010, 5:35 PM
I'm sure that we all want an update as soon as the CGF thinks it's OK.

Cokebottle
05-04-2010, 7:14 PM
Eight years from now, who is going to remember this thread?
Dooley will find it and bump it.

otteray
05-04-2010, 7:28 PM
Hosed or toasted retorts...
Not if it's "soggy" from too much butter.

RomanDad:
Soggy toast is the worst.
sepiid:
OR!!! your havign Milk Toast Cereal!

I can dig it.:laugh:

dwh100
05-04-2010, 8:25 PM
Just had a refresher discussion with my 10 year old boy about proper firearm/school conversation etiquette.

It's sad how the word "gun" = "violence" to brainwahed numbskulls.

Fyathyrio
05-05-2010, 5:00 PM
I'm sure that we all want an update as soon as the CGF thinks it's OK.

2 weeks...right?!? :p

Jorge
05-05-2010, 6:38 PM
Tagged

five.five-six
05-05-2010, 10:27 PM
if a child causes injury with a gun and a "reasonable person" would find that the gun was not safely secured ... then you have problems, however if no one is injured, it's legal to keep them under the christmass tree


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4182/adds1.jpg
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2171/adds2.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/351/adds3.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2073/adds4.jpg

Joe788
05-05-2010, 10:41 PM
I'm curious why an update to the story would have potential legal ramifications down the line?

If the cops came, the guy said, "There's no law that says the gun has to be locked, but it IS locked up, and NO you can't come on my property without a search warrant." And that message was relayed here, how could that come back to bite anybody later on?

goodlookin1
05-06-2010, 7:23 AM
2 days after making a post like this and the OP is still delaying the update???

What the heck! That's just mean....

;)

CSACANNONEER
05-06-2010, 4:09 PM
2 days after making a post like this and the OP is still delaying the update???

What the heck! That's just mean....

;)

The OP and his family members have probably been advised by their legal council (CGF) not to release any info until it's all over. I'm guessing that there was already an act 2 and possibly a few more acts yet to come. We won't hear about it until after the final act is over and the curtain call is done.

fd15k
05-06-2010, 4:31 PM
The OP and his family members have probably been advised by their legal council (CGF) not to release any info until it's all over. I'm guessing that there was already an act 2 and possibly a few more acts yet to come. We won't hear about it until after the final act is over and the curtain call is done.

We don't need any detailed information. We just need to know if the problem has been taken care of.

Cokebottle
05-06-2010, 7:09 PM
We don't need any detailed information. We just need to know if the problem has been taken care of.
With CGF on it, it either has or will be taken care of since no laws were violated.

The only assumption that I am making from the lack of any updates is that the visit from the cops was unfortunately not uneventful, but I only say that because if the visit was uneventful, there would be no reason not to update.

Joe788
05-07-2010, 10:43 AM
I'm still curious why a simple relaying of these events could have potential legal ramifications?

boxbro
05-07-2010, 5:16 PM
I'm still curious why a simple relaying of these events could have potential legal ramifications?

I will guess there's a number of reasons.
One I can think of would be, what if the police and or CPS violated his rights despite him following his lawyers advice ?
There could be potential lawsuits that could be damaged by relaying information here.
I assume something did happen, or might still happen, and that is why the silence.
I am as curious as anyone, but we'll just have to be patient, sit with our :lurk5: and wait for the main feature to start.

Wherryj
05-07-2010, 7:25 PM
I have a Family member in Temecula whos young son shot his mouth off at school about a WWII 6.5 Arisaka that his dad owns and the boy called it a sniper rifle etc... School contatced police and police want to do a check today (5-3-10) to see if gun is properly secured.

What are the rights of search and seizure in this case?

The gun is in a soft case locked in a secure shed and the Guy is the only one in the family with the combnation to the lock. The rifle is a war prize and unregistered.

Can he require a warrant beyond the locked shed door?

With school and children involved is there a possiblity of seizure in this case?

The police are calling at 3:30 so any immediate help is much appreciated. Thanks! :mad:

I'd hope that this isn't considered "reasonable cause".

My niece, who was six at the time, went to school with a bandaid on her arm. (Kids like that kind of thing for any 'booboo' whether needed or not)

Her teacher asked her what happened and the niece replies that her brother "shot her" (being in kindergarten she neglected to say "with a suction cup tipped plastic toy gun"). The teacher immediately called authorities who went to my aunt's home with SJPD and social services. (the funny thing is that she was a social worker at the time...)

It was only with the warrant and the authorities present that anyone actually thought to LOOK at the bandaid more closely. It was obvious that there wasn't a serious wound, but they still asked to remove the bandage-only to find absolutely nothing. She was still intimidated a bit to help assure that she didn't protest too much for the entire circus.

Don't expect much from any CA government. Overreaction is common, and there will probably be a desire to manufacture something to cover their tail.

Midnightblue 72
05-07-2010, 11:56 PM
Hello all, I feel like I need to chime because of my first hand experiences with CPS in Riverside County.

Background: My son is now 19 but from the age of 5 to 12 (I married when he was 12), I was a single full custody dad because the ex abandonded us.

Fast forward about 6 years ago, a CPS investigator shows up at my house as I am getting ready to go to work at 10am. As I step out I am introduced, he asks to step in, I say, "Sorry on the way to work, lets find a day that we can sit down."

Eventually we meet, allegations of abuse were made and I couldnt figure out how. Two days later I was served by the ex who hadnt been around for years.

ANYWAY, here's the kicker after I was cleared and AFTER I was required to notify my employer of an active investigation, I found out my son was interviewed AT school for over an hour by CPS. The interview was over a week before he showed up. My son was told to NOT talk about what happened (interview in school)

My son broke down and said he was terrified that even when he told the truth that they would arrest me, he knew his bio-mom was behind it and started having panic attacks because of the fear of living with the bio-mom.

Here's my point, that child that made the statement about the rifle, WILL be interviewed AT school by a CPS investigator and there's NOTHING you can do to stop it.

puropuro
05-11-2010, 11:11 AM
Gotta say, based on this thread, and the support I see from CGF, I'm going to work into my budget, regular donations to CGF. (or is it CGN?)

I seriously didn't know you guys would just help us if needed.

EDIT: and yes, I just found the sticky....I tend to lurk in the actual guns sections and less on the law sections.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=245866

I'm in!

jdberger
05-11-2010, 11:21 AM
Gotta say, based on this thread, and the support I see from CGF, I'm going to work into my budget, regular donations to CGF. (or is it CGN?)

I seriously didn't know you guys would just help us if needed.

It's CGF.

But it's not "we who help you" as much as it's "we help us".

We're a community. We fight together. This community is what makes us strong.

BusBoy
05-11-2010, 11:56 AM
it's funny how CPS works nowadays. my wife teaching at a title 1 school in the middle of the monument corridor reports abused children all the time, these kids have black eye's and bruises and welts all over them. One little girl even had what looked to be Branding s from an iron like you would do to livestock, yet CPS released each of these children to the parents and half the time it was due to a translator not being available so there was no interview even though the kid was obviously abused. Yet I guarantee the first time one of my sons mentions a gun at school whether it's "my dad has a gun" or a comment like "my dad took me shooting this weekend" i can bet CPS will be on my doorstep:rolleyes:

Oh and to make it even better 4 gang members tried to stab another gangmember to death tonight across from the school my wife teaches at, they failed and the kid is only in critical condition, I swear kids these days cant do anything right:rolleyes:

Spddrcr... Hmmm too funny if your the same guy. Im guessing a Neighboor, Claycord Reader, Calguns reader and most likely I'm guessing a USI shooter... Read about that stabbing tell the wife to taze and ask questions later! :D maybe see ya at the range sometime!

Oops to keep this on thread track i dont suppose the media picked up on this did they? There woul dbe a sorry sight to see as they "reported" the news

spddrcr
05-18-2010, 9:54 AM
Spddrcr... Hmmm too funny if your the same guy. Im guessing a Neighboor, Claycord Reader, Calguns reader and most likely I'm guessing a USI shooter... Read about that stabbing tell the wife to taze and ask questions later! :D maybe see ya at the range sometime!

Oops to keep this on thread track i dont suppose the media picked up on this did they? There woul dbe a sorry sight to see as they "reported" the news

man your gonna out me on calguns like that:D
yes i am an avid claycord reader and poster, I shoot action pistol and various other shooting sports but mostly action pistol at usi and i live next to a school in concord:D

but back to topic at hand, I was interviewed by CPS when i was a kid due to telling a teacher i was hungry at school. not only was i interviewed at school but in my home as well with my parents present. As it turned out there was no food at my house for me or my brother or sister, the place was in shambles and my dad was sleeping from working all night and my mom was recovering from a 3 day party binge and hadnt slept in awhile. the CPS people asked me point blank in front of my parents if they ever hit me or used objects to spank me, to which i said yes. They asked what type of items and i asked my dad to show the nice lady his belt he was wearing and then showed her the marks and scars on my back.

after everything was said and done the whole CPS intervention into my life got my family some powdered milk and blocks of cheese and one of the biggest if not the biggest ***whoopings in my life from him. still have the scars to prove it today even though this happened 26 years ago.

CPS is no good and i cant believe anything good could ever come from a visit from them.

Carlosa
05-18-2010, 11:22 AM
update??

CEDaytonaRydr
05-18-2010, 11:23 AM
PCVnMDy_7nM

Or, don't even open the door.

Get a door mounted intercom with an integrated peep-hole and talk to them through that.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img.alibaba.com/photo/10615679/EntryWay_Eagle_Door_Intercom_And_Viewing_System.jp g&imgrefurl=http://www.alibaba.com/product/kennethengland-10615679-10465423/productdetail.html&usg=__zVfvwEs5sH_ZqUi0XANSmeZygPM=&h=294&w=499&sz=43&hl=en&start=5&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=Yycgrp_o4JQ99M:&tbnh=77&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddoor%2Bintercom%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*%26t bs%3Disch:1

No intercom? Don't even respond to the door. They'll go away... ;)

spddrcr
05-18-2010, 11:59 AM
You guys asking for updates are wasting your time. any time the CGF or CGN gets involved in something legal the first thing that happens is a information blackout on the website to protect the client as anything that is said here can be used against them. please dont ask for updates that can make people's problems worse only because you want the juicy details.:rolleyes:

HokeySon
05-18-2010, 1:49 PM
No intercom? Don't even respond to the door. They'll go away... ;)

but make sure to step back from the door, just in case it comes flying open.