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View Full Version : So glad we don't live in China


fonionrings
05-03-2010, 9:39 AM
From CNN this morning:

"Beijing, China (CNN) -- Early in the morning on March 23, Zheng Minsheng walked in front of an elementary school in Fujian province. Wielding a knife, he attacked the students who happened to be around, killing eight and wounding several others.

Authorities said Zheng, 42, carried out the attack because he was frustrated at "failures in his romantic life," according to the official Xinhua News Agency. Whatever his real motive was, the senseless killing, reported widely by the Chinese media, shocked the nation. Zheng was tried, sentenced to death and executed on April 28.

If Chinese authorities thought Zheng's execution would deter similar attacks, they were wrong. The day he was executed, a knife-wielding man attacked elementary school students in southern Guangdong province, wounding 16 students and a teacher. The attacker was later subdued by the police, and no one died.

The next day, a man in Jiangsu province barged into a kindergarten and stabbed 31 people, including 28 students, two teachers and one security guard. "It was too horrible to imagine," one eyewitness told local reporters. "I saw blood everywhere." Police apprehended the suspect, 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan.

Then, on April 30, a man barged into a village school in Shandong province, carrying a hammer and a can of gasoline. Wang Yonglai, a local farmer, attacked preschool students with the hammer, causing head injuries. He then set himself on fire and died. According to a Xinhua report, the local farmer went berserk after the local police told him that the family house he had just built using 110,000 yuan (US$16,110) of family savings had to be torn down because it had been built on farmland, which is illegal in China.

It was the third such school attack in three days.

The spate of school attacks is prompting public anger. "What is going on with these people?" Wen Jia, a father of a pre-schooler in Beijing, asked CNN. "Why take their frustrations on defenseless children? We need better security in schools, but we also need to take care of the mentally ill."

On Friday, the Ministry of Education on its website issued an urgent circular ordering kindergartens, elementary and secondary schools to beef up security and restrict strangers from entering the campuses. The ministry instructed schools across the country to hire security guards, install security facilities and ensure that pupils are escorted home. Schools are also urged to teach pupils to how to protect themselves.

Guns are strictly controlled in China, but until recently possession of large knives were not. Chinese authorities have recently issued a regulation requiring people to register with their national ID cards when they buy knives longer that 15 centimeters."

Goes to show that people with enough intent will find ways to commit violence (retarded, indiscriminate violence) regardless of weapon restrictions. We have our 30" OAL and they have their 15cm OAL.

Aegis
05-03-2010, 9:49 AM
The sad thing is most law abiding people who live in California are just as powerless to stop something terrible like this as the victims in China. The politicians in CA have embolden criminals with unconstitutional laws which do not allow law abiding people to protect themselves outside of the home.

firearmenthusiast
05-03-2010, 10:26 AM
The funniest thing about all this is that even though China doesn't allow guns to its regular citizens, they DO allow weapons that California fears mightily. I have traveled in China before and here is a list of some things allowed which California doesn't:

ASP style batons: Totally legal
Clubs, blackjacks, bats, whatever: Totally legal
Pepper Spray over 2.5 ounces: Heck, you can bring a pound and it's legal still
Knives: under 5.9 inches, legal
Nunchucks: Totally legal, actually saw some at sale at a local school athletic shop LOL!

Really ironic and funny! If I bought a nunchuck there without a license, from a university for crying out loud!, and took it to California, under California law I can get up to 1 year in jail. Funny how this world works right??

hoozaru
05-03-2010, 10:26 AM
chinese parents already found a solution to this problem.

http://postimg1.mop.com/2010/04/30/12726056421027517.jpg

Translation of the red sign:

"Please do not seek revenge (against society/government/employer etc) in our kindergarten, Directions to City Hall make a right turn at the next light"

fonionrings
05-03-2010, 11:03 AM
LOL. Plus, the bright pink and yellow colors should bring out the joy in an angry person.

chinese parents already found a solution to this problem.

http://postimg1.mop.com/2010/04/30/12726056421027517.jpg

Translation of the red sign:

"Please do not seek revenge (against society/government/employer etc) in our kindergarten, Directions to City Hall make a right turn at the next light"

Maltese Falcon
05-03-2010, 11:09 AM
There are a lot of frustrated young males in China....Read: More problems ahead.

New York Times

April 11, 2009
Chinese Bias for Baby Boys Creates a Gap of 32 Million

By SHARON LaFRANIERE
BEIJING — A bias in favor of male offspring has left China (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/china/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) with 32 million more boys under the age of 20 than girls, creating “an imminent generation of excess men,” a study released Friday said.

For the next 20 years, China will have increasingly more men than women of reproductive age, according to the paper, which was published online (http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/338/apr09_2/b1211) by the British Medical Journal. “Nothing can be done now to prevent this,” the researchers said.

Chinese government planners have long known that the urge of couples to have sons was skewing the gender balance of the population. But the study, by two Chinese university professors and a London researcher, provides some of the first hard data on the extent of the disparity and the factors contributing to it.

In 2005 , they found, births of boys in China exceeded births of girls by more than 1.1 million. There were 120 boys born for every 100 girls.

This disparity seems to surpass that of any other country, they said — a finding, they wrote, that was perhaps unsurprising in light of China’s one-child policy.

They attributed the imbalance almost entirely to couples’ decisions to abort female fetuses.

The trend toward more male than female children intensified steadily after 1986, they said, as ultrasound tests and abortion became more available. “Sex-selective abortion accounts for almost all the excess males,” the paper said.

The researchers, who analyzed data from a 2005 census, said the disparity was widest among children ages 1 to 4, a sign that the greatest imbalances among the adult population lie ahead. They also found more distortion in provinces that allow rural couples a second child if the first is a girl, or in cases of hardship.

Those couples were determined to ensure they had at least one son, the researchers noted. Among children born second, there were 143 boys for 100 girls, the data showed.

The Chinese government is openly concerned “about the consequences of large numbers of excess men for social stability and security,” the researchers said. (Italics mine)

But “although some imaginative and extreme solutions have been suggested,” they wrote, China will have too many men for a generation to come.

They said enforcing the ban against sex-selective abortions could normalize the sex ratio in the future.

The study was conducted by Wei Xingzhu, a Zhejiang Normal University professor; Li Lu, a Zhejiang University professor; and Therese Hesketh, a University College London lecturer.


.

snobord99
05-03-2010, 11:27 AM
My girl's in China. She went to the range with one of her uncles less than a month ago and shot something that was fully automatic. I've never even held something that was fully automatic...

Turo
05-03-2010, 11:32 AM
At least China has the cajones to deal with these murderers and give them the justice they deserve. Not let them mooch off society for the rest of their lives eating 3 squares a day.

Ron-Solo
05-03-2010, 11:47 AM
Committed crime on Maech 23rd, executed April 28th. At least they don't waste time.

AJAX22
05-03-2010, 11:53 AM
They have ranges in china?

I'll be in shanghai in two weeks .... Hook me up with a full auto shooting trip!!!!!

;)

snobord99
05-03-2010, 11:58 AM
They have ranges in china?

I'll be in shanghai in two weeks .... Hook me up with a full auto shooting trip!!!!!

;)

Hahaha. I think it was a military range.

POLICESTATE
05-03-2010, 12:15 PM
Instead of attacking defenseless children these people in China should instead attach their government officials, most of the problems they have are result of them.

Dubels
05-03-2010, 12:47 PM
In a country with a reported 1.3 billion (there are still a ton unaccounted for) I am not the least bit surprised by attacks like this. There was a case in America where this adult male took a rifle and shot up a elementary school. There are a lot of people out there with mental illnesses and it just doesn't help when there is a 32 million gap between males and females around 20 years old, that's a 10th of our population. But back on point with a population of 1.3 billion its hard to make sure everyone with mental illnesses gets help. It is even a problem in America with only 300 million.

nrandell
05-03-2010, 12:53 PM
They have ranges in china?

I'll be in shanghai in two weeks .... Hook me up with a full auto shooting trip!!!!!

;)


They do have ranges, and apparently some even have rocket launchers and mortars to play with!

http://www.tour-beijing.com/sportstour/china_north_international_shooting_range.php

xrMike
05-03-2010, 1:04 PM
"Beijing, China (CNN) -- Early in the morning on March 23, Zheng Minsheng walked in front of an elementary school...

Zheng was tried, sentenced to death and executed on April 28.Gotta love the speed of chinese justice. A little over 1 month between crime and execution!

lazyworm
05-03-2010, 1:26 PM
They have ranges in china?

I'll be in shanghai in two weeks .... Hook me up with a full auto shooting trip!!!!!

;)

Donno about Shanghai. But some nicer hotels/resorts have shooting
ranges on property.

timdps
05-03-2010, 1:41 PM
There are a lot of frustrated young males in China....Read: More problems ahead.
Chinese Bias for Baby Boys Creates a Gap of 32 Million


Simple solution for that problem: start a war...

How many divisions can you build with 32 million men?

tim

Barkoff
05-03-2010, 1:42 PM
This isn't China?

Aegis
05-03-2010, 2:38 PM
This isn't China?

No, this isn't China, but a similar occurrence just happened today here in California. Apparently an off duty deputy stopped the attacker. Imagine if the deputy was not there, how many more victims there would be.

Politicians and LEOs that deny law abiding people the right to protect themselves are morally bankrupt.

http://cbs2.com/local/Target.Stabbing.West.2.1672155.html

unusedusername
05-03-2010, 4:01 PM
They do have ranges, and apparently some even have rocket launchers and mortars to play with!

http://www.tour-beijing.com/sportstour/china_north_international_shooting_range.php

Price: RMB 10 per bullet ( reference price )


According to google, 10 Chinese yuan = 1.46531 U.S. dollars, so $1.47 per bullet ???

Better be 50BMG at that price. :eek:

mbarnes
05-03-2010, 4:04 PM
Snip, damn jumped the gun

macadamizer
05-03-2010, 4:35 PM
Gotta love the speed of chinese justice. A little over 1 month between crime and execution!

Not a lot of time for due process, though, if you were the one wrongly accused of such a crime...

Thrasher416
05-03-2010, 5:09 PM
According to google, 10 Chinese yuan = 1.46531 U.S. dollars, so $1.47 per bullet ???

Better be 50BMG at that price. :eek:

I've heard of shooting ranges in Vietanam costing about 1 US dollar per bullet. According to a European friend that's not bad considering you don't need any type of special license. Apparently only us Americans complain since we're used to bullets costing much less.:rolleyes:

Still I would jump at the chance to fire an RPG-7 or just a rocket launcher period! :D

Maltese Falcon
05-03-2010, 5:15 PM
Not a lot of time for due process, though, if you were the one wrongly accused of such a crime...

Yep, I think the general idea is that if you are arrested, that pretty much seals the deal. I would rather have US Justice, no matter how messed up, thank you.

.

Canute
05-03-2010, 5:19 PM
May be traveling solo across Eurasia by bicycle soon. I've been wondering what I can get away with carrying. I'll probably roll with some fine Chinese cutlery. I need to be able to prepare food, after all. Maybe a little projectile chili seasoning as well.
Wikipedia says that civs may not own any guns whatsoever. Figure those ranges are tightly government controlled and very closely monitored to make sure nothing walks out? It also says that the maximum penalty for possession of a gun is death.

Canute
05-03-2010, 5:23 PM
Had heard about bubble of young men a few years ago and thought it spelled trouble. Unfortunately boys are much more highly valued than boys in Chinese culture. Not too long ago, and probably even now, girls get, uh, retroactively aborted. Probably in the womb now that the medical technology is there.

kcbrown
05-03-2010, 6:02 PM
Gotta love the speed of chinese justice. A little over 1 month between crime and execution!

The (probably biggest) advantage of a totalitarian government is that the trains run on time.

As do the executions...


Real due process (along with other rights and liberties) has a price, and it is a price worth paying.

Canute
05-03-2010, 6:05 PM
When my wife was going through college in Shanghai twenty years ago they had some sort of compulsory militia training that took a summer. Don't know if they still do that.

xrMike
05-04-2010, 8:59 AM
Not a lot of time for due process, though, if you were the one wrongly accused of such a crime...

The (probably biggest) advantage of a totalitarian government is that the trains run on time.

As do the executions...

Real due process (along with other rights and liberties) has a price, and it is a price worth paying.

I hear ya... But for high visibility crimes where the shooter/killer was seen by many people and there is absolutely no doubt they have the right guy, you have to love chinese justice.

Here in the U.S., that same guy would either be found not guilty (insanity defense) or get either the death penalty or life in prison without parole. Every one of those outcomes would cost taxpayers millions of dollars, one way or another.

I'm just saying, in cases like that, the chinese are saving LOTS of money. :D

But yeah, here it's more like: "Better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be found guilty."

VictorFranko
05-04-2010, 9:14 AM
I can think of 469,182,087 reasons to live in China,
and here are eight of those reasons!

http://www.omgsoysauce.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/asian-beijing-cheerleaders-10.jpg
(beach volleyball cheerleaders from the Beijing Games)

macadamizer
05-04-2010, 9:40 AM
I hear ya... But for high visibility crimes where the shooter/killer was seen by many people and there is absolutely no doubt they have the right guy, you have to love chinese justice.

When is there "absolutely no doubt?" There have been numerous death penalty cases in the U.S. where someone was convicted on what was later found to be erroneous eyewitness testimony, or erroneous evidence, or a compelled confession.

My point is this -- sure, it seems easy when someone commits a crime in full view of a bunch of witnesses to simply go straight to conviction and punishment -- and I don't disagree that there are times when the weight of the evidence, the fact that the crime was committed in full view of a camera or witnesses, when there really is no question of guilt. The problem is, though, that these cases are few, and who do you want deciding when a case is a "no question of guilt" case or not, who gets to decide whether a case is entitled to full due process or not?

Here in the U.S., that same guy would either be found not guilty (insanity defense) or get either the death penalty or life in prison without parole. Every one of those outcomes would cost taxpayers millions of dollars, one way or another.

That seems to me both (a) an overly pessimistic view of our legal system, and (b) in any event, a reasonable price to pay if it means we don't execute innocent people.

Or, look at it in a way that is more apropos to topics discussed on CalGuns -- self defense. If you kill someone in a legal self-defense situation, do you want to be convicted solely on witness testimony that they saw you kill someone, or would you prefer to have a system where you could raise a defense to the killing? I am not saying that this defense is reasonable in the cases discussed by the OP, of course, but this is a potential outcome if we were to switch to a system where we immediately go to conviction when the crime is "obvious" or "clear."

And as far as an insanity defense, a couple of points to consider. First, it is much, much harder to prevail with an insanity defense than most people think. The bar for proving insanity is very high. And, in any event, if someone really is insane, and really can't understand what they are doing, then perhaps punishment isn't the proper outcome anyway.

I'm just saying, in cases like that, the chinese are saving LOTS of money. :D

Due process slows down, and increases the cost, of convicting and punishing those people for whom guilt is "obvious." But due process isn't designed for the "obvious" cases, it is designed for the far more common situation where the case isn't "obvious."

And if you are willing to do away with due process in "obvious" cases, I ask again -- who gets to decide when a case is "obvious?" And do you trust that person, or entity, to make the right decision if you, or somebody you know, is being charged with a crime?

But yeah, here it's more like: "Better that 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be found guilty."

That's the "Blackstone ratio." Ben Franklin put the number at 100. :)

Canute
05-04-2010, 11:24 AM
I hear ya... But for high visibility crimes where the shooter/killer was seen by many people and there is absolutely no doubt they have the right guy, you have to love chinese justice.

I have very little praise for totalitarian governments. Be careful what you wish for. They whack people at the drop of a hat.