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EBWhite
03-04-2006, 7:08 PM
I found this guys, looks pretty interesting! figured i would pass it on....

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=44677551

VeryCoolCat
03-04-2006, 7:11 PM
I saw one at the range once, but it was for a glock, too bad its not legal in the republic of kalifornia

handbook
03-04-2006, 7:19 PM
why butcher a 1911?
JMB would roll in his grave.

VeryCoolCat
03-04-2006, 7:22 PM
Ohh its actually very effective, quite accurate. It had one of those surefire sights i think its surefire or something very close, the guy i was talking to said it makes a big difference, but i held it, and it does signicantly increase the weight.

Why buy a beretta storm or something along that line when you can just get your trusty sidearm into a longarm.

shopkeep
03-04-2006, 8:32 PM
The minute that goes on your pistol, you've just created an Assault Weapon. Pistol grip + detachable mag :(!

TonyM
03-04-2006, 9:12 PM
The minute that goes on your pistol, you've just created an Assault Weapon. Pistol grip + detachable mag :(!


Close....... but not quite.. ;)


From 12276.1:

Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

metalhead357
03-04-2006, 9:31 PM
Thank you TonyM.... I was was thinking too that this just might actually be legal~ provided that device at the end is a brake and a Flash suppressor......


*Thought* you COULD go from pistol TO a rifle no probelm...it the OTHER way around that you run into problems.


Good post.

Metalhead

metalhead357
03-04-2006, 10:02 PM
Only problem is: if it is a rifle, under CA law it is an AW, because it has a pistol grip and a magazine.

that's NOT it, read the previous post. Semi auto and Detachable AND __________ (SB23 stuff).

I'm not seeing SB23 stuff on this one, no bayo mount, grenade launcher, 2nd handgrip......EXCEPT maybe the "barrel shroud....) Maybe removable?

Metalhead

TonyM
03-04-2006, 10:05 PM
As I understand it, it's still a pistol.... but the bold items I listed would make it illegal..

shopkeep
03-04-2006, 10:20 PM
But... doesn't adding a stock turn this into a rifle and therefore an Assault Weapon?

TonyM
03-04-2006, 10:24 PM
But... doesn't adding a stock turn this into a rifle and therefore an Assault Weapon?

Don't think it's considered a Rifle, but the items I highlighted in bold in my other post are on the gun, and are items that would identify it as an assault weapon.

metalhead357
03-04-2006, 10:40 PM
I see/hear you'r guy's dillema...BUT....

But even looking at Tony's listing of the criteria...it does NOT have a forward grip as defined by the DOJ and all that nonsense of Conspicuously protuding, yada yada. If that were the case of a HORIZONTAL forward grip there's be some real upset & in jail former LONG SLIDE pistol owners around. Gotta conspicuously sit below the web of the hand yada yada. Think the MP5's and SP89 guns...THEY have forward grips- two types, horizontal and/or vertical. The SP89 WITHOUT the downgrip is NOT the same as the one's with AFAIK....

that part on the gun that looks "holed"...MAYYYYYYY be a "shroud" but then again it may be part of the upper assembly chamber itself- I dont think that would qualify.

You're right about a pistol being a pistol AFAIK but there is no MAXIMUM length that I'm aware of.

So its got a Definite TWo of the 3 items for AW status... IF the BRAKE is permantly attached then the threads are not an issue. the *only* issue I still am seeing is whether or not this thing has a "Shroud"...........

Josh
03-04-2006, 11:03 PM
isnt the stock attached to the pistol make it an nfa item anyways.

metalhead357
03-04-2006, 11:54 PM
Now that one you have me on........... i dunno:rolleyes:

kantstudien
03-05-2006, 12:56 AM
No, it is not NFA because the barrel is over 16 inches. Don't worry about it though, it is illegal in Kali. Detachable magazine + pistol grip = AW.

Mssr. Eleganté
03-05-2006, 1:13 AM
Yep, a pistol with a shoulder stock is an NFA item because it becomes a short barrelled rifle. The carbine conversion unit overcomes this by including a barrel over 16 inches. The shoulder stock combined with the 16 inch barrel turns the pistol into a Federally legal rifle. But since it is a semi-auto rifle with a detatchable magazine and a pistol grip, it is considered an assault weapon in California.

metalhead357
03-05-2006, 10:07 AM
But since it is a semi-auto rifle with a detatchable magazine and a pistol grip, it is considered an assault weapon in California.

Guys? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but those two items alone dont make it an Assualt weapon...it needs those two AND another off the list- So what are you saying is the third????????? The more that I stare at that (crummy) picture the more I'm NOT seeing that thing having a shroud.

No "A", no "B", no "D"....*maybe* "C" off the list....if it doesnt actually have "C" then it aint an assualt weapon..............:cool:

Metalhead


From 12276.1:

Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

s281c
03-05-2006, 10:45 AM
Guys? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but those two items alone dont make it an Assualt weapon...it needs those two AND another off the list- So what are you saying is the third????????? The more that I stare at that (crummy) picture the more I'm NOT seeing that thing having a shroud.

No "A", no "B", no "D"....*maybe* "C" off the list....if it doesnt actually have "C" then it aint an assualt weapon..............:cool:

Metalhead

That's because you're looking at the wrong list, once you add a shoulder stock it's either considered a SBR, if the barrel is under 16" long or a rifle, 16"+ barrel length.

I looked into these a long time ago, they are considered AW's by feature, so no go in CA.

metalhead357
03-05-2006, 11:02 AM
That's because you're looking at the wrong list, once you add a shoulder stock it's either considered a SBR, if the barrel is under 16" long or a rifle, 16"+ barrel length.

I looked into these a long time ago, they are considered AW's by feature, so no go in CA.

Ahhhhh! There you go in the Best Paul Harvy- I knew there must be the "rest of the story". So no doubts here then. By any chance- got a lonk or post of THAT list? Or even points meee there?

bwiese
03-05-2006, 11:30 AM
Stay away from this in CA.

VeryCoolCat
03-05-2006, 7:48 PM
Well as long as you keep it seperated, its legal, some places in cali actually sell these to my knowledge.

nrandell
03-09-2006, 10:00 PM
Would it be legal if you cut off the stock?

gotgunz
03-09-2006, 11:00 PM
Would it be legal if you cut off the stock?


Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of buying it?
Just a thought